Im platinum so im about average for ranked. I think what would really change the sweatiness if they didnt make challenges like “win matches” or “win x playlist matches”
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Yup. Currently no social reap social features. Kinda miss h5 spartan companies
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Because…
We… play the game to… win?
I get the sentiment,
but its horrifically misplaced.
The match making system being as tight as it is,
Is Anti-fun, on top of alot of other systems that contribute to the problem.
If you have to game the games system, just to get it to feed to easy games?
No, that is a sign that the system is fundamentally flawed.
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Yeah I like winning but the incentive is to lose so that my matches are easier. It’s a pretty weird system. I guess the incentive is to see my guy posing? At least we don’t floss, I’m pretty sure that was pitched by one of these 343 guys at some point. Because they fail to understand the nature of game.
I agree with you on this one. Creating challenges around wins can cause an unnecessary amount of sweatiness.
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To list the pro/really good players the game has ranked me against in social in the past couple of months:
MintBlitz
UberNick
Shaady
Tchik sd
Jimbo (twice)
lts Name
And that is only the ones I’ve recognised. There were no doubt more. I got low Onyx in season 1.
Alongside that I’ve got Onyx’s in nearly every game of quick play, usually multiple. This is not enjoyable or rewarding for getting good at the game. This is NOT AN ESPORT every day of the week. Where is the reward for being a good player. Gaming was at its best when it was a fight for supremacy. You start bad, you practice practice practice, you get good. You are then the best player in most lobbies. That isn’t the case any more. Now you are in the top 5-10% of the population and the game only picks from that pool. Making your experience constantly sweaty, difficult and stressful. Where’s the reward?
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You also aren’t the best player, since you currently are ‘only’ Diamond-4 (that is still very good ofcourse, but not the best), so that you match against some of the best players in the game already tells you that there are already significant skill gaps in matches, aren’t there?
And if i look at your matches, you clearly see the effect of you being a good player, You’re total average k/d is 2.06 and in of the last 25 matches is 2.15 (all PvP, no BB). So it’s clear you already see the rewards for being better then most players.
And if i look at your matches of today (your last 8 matches), you can already see that there are big skill gaps and you are definitely not only matched against people your own skill (i used highest reached rank, since not everybody bothered to get a rank in S2 while they did had one in S1, so that would make you an Onyx in this list):
- You + no data + plat-1 + plat-1 vs unranked + no data + diamond-1 + plat-5
- You + unranked + no data + unranked vs unranked + no data + plat-1 + plat-5
- You + Plat-3 + Plat-6 + Plat-1 vs Onyx + Diamond-4 + Diamond-5 + Diamond-3
- .You + error + error + Plat-2 vs Onyx + error + error + Diamond-3
- You + Plat-4 + Diamond-1 + unranked vs Plat-2 + unranked + Diamond-6 + Gold-4
- You + Onyx + Onyx + Plat-5 (DNF) + Onyx (AFK player?) vs no data + Onyx (DNF) + Plat-2 + Plat-1 + Diamond-2
- You + Diamond-5 + Plat-2 + Diamond-5 vs Diamond-2 + Diamond-1 + Onyx + Diamond-4
- You + unranked (new) + unranked + unranked (new) vs Diamond-1 + Diamond-4 + Onyx + Onyx
So your opponents in those 8 matches:
- 9x onyx (1 of them quit, 1 probably was AFK)
- 15x diamond
- 15x platinum
- 1x gold
- 5x profiles that said “no data” at their ranks
- 9x players that never got a rank (most of them didn’t had good k/d’s, so prob. not the best players)
- 4x players where i couldn’t load their profile on Halo Tracker
So only 9 people (of wich only 7 played) had the same max. rank as you (although there is ofcourse a lot of skill gaps within onyx) and 31 were lower ranked, with 16 even way lower ranked then you. And for 18 players we don’t know.
I don’t know, but i wouldn’t call that being matches with “only picks from that pool” refurring to your own skill. There are wide gaps displaying here.
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What is your problem? I’m aware of that. If you’d read you would see that I said most, which for a high diamond/low onyx player statistically would be the case if matchmaking was random. Also, I’m speaking generally, you are just trying to be obnoxious.
They made a change at the start of season 2. My kdr has been in free fall since then. Things are stricter now.
Since your data analysis is including an entire week of LSS matches, which have a completely different matchmaking profile, I have collated the last 50 opponents I have had in the two key social playlists I play. When I talk about sbmm I am talking about normal matches, not LSS. In a match of 16 lone players there is never going to be a stack of onyx’s. It isn’t a relevant or fair data point. Making snap judgements about other peoples experiences that you know nothing about by using flawed data is not helpful.
Team Slayer (social)
Onyx 1500-1600: 6
Onyx 1600-1700: 4
Onyx 1700-1800: 3
Onyx 1800+: 1
High Diamond (4-6): 13
Low diamond(1-3): 8
Platinum: 7
Gold: 2
Unranked: 7
Private (2 top performers in onyx games): 3
Quick play (social)
Onyx: 10
High Diamond: 8
Low Diamond: 8
Platinum: 9
Gold: 1
Unranked: 15
So what does that tell us. (I’m ignoring unranked and private players as they are a mixed bag and aren’t a reliable data point. For example 2 of the 3 private people in the slayer set outperformed onyx 1700s in their match).
That tells us that in standard team slayer, I get onyx players 32% of the time. I get high diamond and above 61% of the time. I get Diamond and above players 79.5% of the time. Seems pretty sweaty to me? In what should be the core social playlist.
Quick play is less strict, but still stricter than it should be. You can see that the vast majority of the actual ranks I play against are Diamond and up still.
So no. The stats do not refute what I’m saying. I’ve been playing halo for 20 years. I know how it used to feel. I know how it feels now. They are worlds apart, and I think that is largely due to the strict matchmaking.
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Nope, those 8 matches i analysed contained 0 LSS matches. I know those are different, so i deliberately took the matches after your last LSS match.
While you were claiming that it was “nearly every time” an that it “only picks from that pool”. If it’s only 32%, it’s clearly not “only from that pool”
And that last 8 matches i analysed (all PVP team modes, mostly Quick Play) you had only another Onyx in half of the matches, wich is also not “nearly every time”
So it seems sweaty to you that only 32% of players are the same rank as you… Right…
It is, because if you complain that 32% of the time you face someone the same skill as you is ‘sweaty’ and that is not social. Then how extremely sweaty and unsocial would it be for bronze or silver players who would face higher ranked players almost all the time? Social doesn’t mean “cater to the extremely skilled”. If players are completely outskilled almost every time, it absolutely isn’t social.
Social just means that not winning the match doesn’t have negative consequences. It still means people deserve a playable match where they have a fighting chance. Otherwise people would just quick the game and the game would be dying.
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I claimed that nearly every match I played in had onyx, and often multiple. And that is absolutely the case. 32% of players I face are onyx. There are four people in the enemy team…. That’s basic maths.
I have been through literally every game to collate that data. So I’ll trust my data and the fact that I actually play on my account over yours thanks.
As I said, that averages more than one other onyx in every game I play. Plus a huge number of high diamond players who are very close to if not at my skill level.
If neary 80% of my opponents are Diamond or above, that is absolutely sweaty. That is ranked. Difference is that ranked tells you that you are at a certain level, and that your opponents are too, which means you expect a difficult game and it doesn’t frustrate. In social it is all hidden, so you are forced to play at your peak level most of the time, but you are never told who your opponents are.
Social has not been that in the past. You guys are just making up a new definition of social. Social has always been a more relaxed playlist that encouraged SOCIAL features, for EVERYONE. Where people go to have fun and relax and not take it seriously. That included allowing experienced players to relax and play with their friends. If you are an awful player (not you personally, in general) then I’m sorry but you have to practice. I’m so bored of this ‘everyone’s a winner’ attitude. It’s ruined gaming.
You say it shouldn’t cater to the extremely skilled? It does the opposite now. It caters to the new player, at the expense of the experienced player. It used to not cater to anyone. It was an open, social experience.
The aggressive SBMM and the terribly thought out challenge system and its bizarre and random incentive structure for every individual player are both anchors tied around this game’s waist. They leave the game feeling too sweaty too much of the time in casual playlists, and force players to engage with the game in strange and often counterintuitive ways to try to tick off their personal challenges.
I really, really hope 343 looks at tweaking SBMM again. This weekend in particular has been a total sweat fest and not much fun for me personally. And random arbitrary challenges are enough of a chore when you aren’t playing matches that demand the utmost attention and engagement. Social playlists shouldn’t feel this way.
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The reward? You sweat your yoink off and win the game. Sit up straight and go to work fellow Spartan.
Yeah. In ranked, sure, that’s the whole point.
But social? Sure you try and win the game, but how do you get a sense of pride if you don’t know who you have beaten? You could have beaten a stack of onyx’s or a team of D1s, you have no idea. That’s why it works in ranked. You get pride in defeating a better team. In social you don’t know, so you don’t get that rewarding feeling. So what is the reward in social? Because to me winning in social isn’t rewarding
If they want to go this route then they just need to make the entire game ranked. Otherwise there is no point in the distinction
Now that stats are made available here on Waypoint for Infinite I believe that social playlists is going to get even more sweatier now.
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Haha, yeah probably. Cant wait
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This and an actual progression system. The heck w these challenges. Just drop a Spartan rank progression like I dunno…every other game out nowadays. Why the hell is it taking so long to do this lol.
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I think I am piecing together a trend here. From this and the other recent SBMM threads.
-
Have to play other people of my own skill - that’s sweaty.
-
Have to play people above my skill - that’s sweaty.
-
Play with people of lower skill then me and have to “carry” them - that’s sweaty.
-
Not being rewarded for the win - that’s sweaty?
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Not having a leader board with my double figure K/D plastered all over it - sweaty.
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Not having a least one opponent thoroughly humiliated and quit Halo forever - sweaty.
It’s slowly making sense.
Apparently lobbies where you go 20/5 and your team wins by 50 points is the key to making everyone happy. But only if your K/D is plastered on the post game screen for everyone to see. And if we only had post game chat so we could all scream “get gud” to drown out the tears.
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I think you fundamentally miss understand this point,
Skill isn’t a static number, its not a rating you play at 100% all the time.
Its arguably just your max proficiency when playing at your personal highest level.
Dosed on Adderall and utterly cracked.
But you need to understand that state of Horribly bad for your mind and body,
It’s a mental state that puts alot of stress on you. Its what leaves you feeling pretty exhausted after extended game play.
It Makes you feel like you’ve just done a workout, it MAKES YOU SWEATY.
I get that there is a subsection of the population that likes that feeling,
But judging by the volume of complaints about the system,
they are a minority.
When you’re not playing a competitive mode, that is just naturally going to be sweaty,
You don’t want the game to place you in games that push you towards that limit.
You want games that allow you to play sub optimally, so you aren’t as severely punished for easy mistakes.
Thats the point of a social game, thats the point of it being casual.
You don’t want to be forced to play games at 100% ALL THE TIME.
You want players from different skill levels to mix.
So that high Skill players can play at 50%
And low skill players can play a 80%
The Gap between player skill will naturally close with some breathing room.
That’s how Bungie designed the Original games, and it made the experience better for everyone.
Well… yeah,
If its above your skill level, you’d already need to be playing at your highest proficiency threshold;
For the entire match. I don’t know why this needs to be pointed out, but that’s just how it goes in comp modes.
I’ve literally never met anyone who held this sentiment.
While it might be true sometimes, you’d need the biggest most over inflated ego to ever think like that.
The player is making the choice to push to compensate for their teams lower skill margin, if they become sweaty doing so, that’s really on them. If it buffs their Ego and they like it.
Whatever, let them enjoy the game that way.
It helps lower skilled people enjoy a game that was going to be an uphill battle for them.
Also,
Literally have never heard anyone call this sweaty.
And judging purely by your forum history I’d probably throw this point out.
This is an overly aggressive fabrication and dragging another complicated issue of progression into this unrelated topic.
TL;DR
This is a straight up lie to tie in an unrelated point.
most players Hate the progression system,
most players would prefer to have a tangible reward for their efforts for play.
there is nothing sweaty about having reasonable expectations that were set in Halo since Reach.
Call of Duty Logic,
Don’t know who made this complaint, or if this is just another fabricated strawman argument.
Frankly no one actually cares?
K/D is such a meaningless metric when the game has a heavy emphasis on objective game play, and moment to moment player interactions.
You forget that the forums HAVE a search function.
Literally NO ONE is talking about this point you’ve made.
So I really just have to assume you made it up.
Please stop lying.
I…
Yeah no this is just a stupid strawman.
Reality is no one really does this, and for anyone who has, their target literally does not care.
They lose, the join the Que, they play another game.
You know what really annoying?
You thought this was a clever post,
you thought this was the truth behind the SBB debate and what people think about it.
But, no.
You haven’t the slightest clue what you’re talking about.
You’ve told several lies.
And the reality is that you’re being extremely toxic about as well.
Why are you like this,
Who hurt you.
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Agree that skill and intensity of play can be separated.
The problem is that competitive players can’t separate them. If you play relaxed in Social then you get a MMR in that mode that is reflective of your input.
The problem is that competitive players feel the need to switch up gears when they are losing or not dominating. So they end up playing just as hard as they would in ranked. Hence the standard of opposition that SBMM tends to give them.
Again. This is fine if you are happy to play at 50% and lose.
I would venture to say that this isn’t the case with a lot of people who complain about SBMM.
Ditto. Play at 50%. Get an appropriate MMR at that level of intensity and be happy with a (close to) 50:50 win rate.
It’s a common sentiment in most of the SBMM threads.
People complain that they are forced to carry their team.
It’s apparently sweaty. Which is all I referred to.
Apparently this isn’t the only thread you haven’t read…
Again. Straight up lie is a bit of a push. It’s literally a comment in this thread in regards to Halo being too Sweaty. 
Seriously? Maybe I’ve been on Waypoint too long. But there are heaps of K/D threads. A lot of posters happily concluding that K/D is reflecting their skill. And that others should just “get gud”.
Not lying.
I agree the sentiment is stupid. But there are regular posters who have clearly posted in SBMM threads that new players should just cope with losing and get better.
I don’t know what your search skills are like, but I literally found this on the very first thread I searched;
I have literally quoted Menke and Microsoft in threads that SBMM improves player retention, or that the predominate factor for players logging off were uneven matches (more than lag or personal performance).
And the response is inevitably that they don’t care.
I’ve literally had posters tell me it is their right of passage to smash new players.
I did actually. Not bad overall.
Probably not.
Nope. Zero lies.
I’ve collated a bunch of sentiments into a single stereo-type. That’s undoubtedly an exaggeration.
But that’s not lying.
Somebody has to stand up for SBMM.
I just want my bullets to work, I don’t care who I’m playing against. I’ve beaten pros and lost to Jimbo the circus barker with a broken controller. This game doesn’t care, you’re going to be able to damage people one game and not the next arbitrarily…or maybe it’s on purpose