Whatever Halo I play, I always seemed to be killed almost immediately after I spawn sometimes because there happens to be an enemy player nearby. This honestly frustrates me a lot. So should there be (temporary) spawn protection in Halo 5?
No. Learning and forcing Spawns of your opponents is a key part of the higher level gameplay in Halo. It has always been there and honestly, when Iām getting spawn camped, I donāt get mad, I feel better knowing that Iām playing against people who actually know how to play the game.
That isnāt to say that there arenāt random spawns that will put you right in front of someone every once in a while, which sucks, but itās part of the game. Just roll with the punch of an unlucky spawn and move on to the next life.
You canāt have spawn protection in Halo.
Thereās nothing to be protected against beyond reasonable āspawn them somewhere logicallyā means.
Call of Duty, sure, because you need some protection from aerial OHK killstreaks.
Halo, no.
Only in social matchmaking; there really isnāt a need to encourage pubstomping in social. Iād even argue that spawn protection would benefit social gametypes.
But in ranked, spawn prediction is a staple of competitive play and its removal was, in my opinion, one of the worst ways in which Halo 4 fell down.
> <mark>Only in social matchmaking; there really isnāt a need to encourage pubstomping in social. Iād even argue that spawn protection would benefit social gametypes.</mark>
>
> But in ranked, spawn prediction is a staple of competitive play and its removal was, in my opinion, one of the worst ways in which Halo 4 fell down.
How come? You are forcing the better ones to do worse by restricting what they can do.
Spawn killing isnāt a problem. The person that spawned has a choice when he spawns, to attack or retreat and find a better position or weapon. He is getting spawn killed because of his own actions (on almost every map). On some maps you will spawn in the sight-line of the opponent if they have control, but that is only a few of them like some of the MLG maps with static spawns.
The only times I get spawn killed if is I spawn right in front of someone (like in a 1v1 on guardian), which isnāt very common, and is not where the complaints are coming from. The complaints are coming from beginners that spawn in a safe place and walk straight out in the open and die.
No
Itād be a restriction on better players and the game helping those who arenāt as good. Even in social.
Not to talk about possible abuses.
Thereās nothing skillful about killing someone before they can react. The fact spawn trapping is glorified is a farce. I really do not care if it takes knowledge or communication to execute, itās infinitely more skillful to actually fight your opponent.
At the same time, spawn protection has its own issues. If implemented poorly it just leads to more unfair outcomes (such as someone sitting with invincibility, lining up a 1-shot while you canāt do anything). Fortunately though Halo is a game where you canāt get one-shot by default weapons, unlike other games with spawn protection.
Would be best to just tweak the spawning system before jumping to drastic measures like spawn protection though.
> That isnāt to say that there arenāt random spawns that will put you right in front of someone every once in a while, which sucks, but itās part of the game. Just roll with the punch of an unlucky spawn and move on to the next life.
So we can ignore randomness when it suits something from classic Halo? Everything in Halo 4 is āpart of the gameā.
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> > <mark>Only in social matchmaking; there really isnāt a need to encourage pubstomping in social. Iād even argue that spawn protection would benefit social gametypes.</mark>
> >
> > But in ranked, spawn prediction is a staple of competitive play and its removal was, in my opinion, one of the worst ways in which Halo 4 fell down.
>
> How come? You are forcing the better ones to do worse by restricting what they can do.
Obviously. Itās social, so why does it matter?
Also, to reiterate: Iām in favour of spawn prediction in ranked. In case you missed that.
> Thereās nothing skillful about killing someone before they can react. The fact spawn trapping is glorified is a farce. I really do not care if it takes knowledge or communication to execute, itās infinitely more skillful to actually fight your opponent.
>
> At the same time, spawn protection has its own issues. If implemented poorly it just leads to more unfair outcomes (such as someone sitting with invincibility, lining up a 1-shot while you canāt do anything). Fortunately though Halo is a game where you canāt get one-shot by default weapons, unlike other games with spawn protection.
>
>
>
> > That isnāt to say that there arenāt random spawns that will put you right in front of someone every once in a while, which sucks, but itās part of the game. Just roll with the punch of an unlucky spawn and move on to the next life.
>
> So we can ignore randomness when it suits something from classic Halo?
How is Spawn Trapping randomness? The whole idea of Halo is to learn how to be the best. The best way to kill someone is when they canāt defend themselves. So to get someone off their spawn is the best way to do just that. So predicting the spawn is actually the exact opposite of randomness. Itās precision on almost every level. Location, timing, and execution. Donāt pull the random card on something that is far from random.
If youāve never set up a spawn trap, then you have no idea how hard it actually is to do. Iāve been on both sides of spawn trapping and itās either greatly rewarding, or embarrassing. The whole point is to get to the point where it canāt happen to you by playing and getting better. Donāt ask the devs to cater to the casual players who donāt understand how to avoid getting spawn trapped. H4 catered to the casuals and look how that turned out. (terrible in case you forgot) Get better at the game and you wonāt have the problem as much. Giving someone a few moments of invincibility is probably the worst thing you could do to Halo.
> Get better at the game and you wonāt have the problem as much.
A bit harsh lol but I agree, honestly. If you have a problem with people spawn-trapping you, donāt let it happen.
If you allowed yourselves to get spawn-trapped in the first place, you probably werenāt the better team anyway. Thatās how Iāve always looked at it (and before anybody says anything, Iāve probably been on the receiving end of spawn-traps more than not).
> > > <mark>Only in social matchmaking; there really isnāt a need to encourage pubstomping in social. Iād even argue that spawn protection would benefit social gametypes.</mark>
> > >
> > > But in ranked, spawn prediction is a staple of competitive play and its removal was, in my opinion, one of the worst ways in which Halo 4 fell down.
> >
> > How come? You are forcing the better ones to do worse by restricting what they can do.
>
> Obviously. Itās social, so why does it matter?
>
> Also, to reiterate: Iām in favour of spawn prediction in ranked. In case you missed that.
It matters just as much as in ranked.
Just because itās social doesnāt mean you should hinder great players and help worse ones.
> Whatever Halo I play, I always seemed to be killed almost immediately after I spawn sometimes because there happens to be an enemy player nearby. This honestly frustrates me a lot. So should there be (temporary) spawn protection in Halo 5?
There are only two possible causes to this problem. The first possibility is that the spawn system is flawed, either because the spawns are placed inadequately or because the spawn algorithm itself is flawed. The second possibility is that your opponents are just a lot better than you, which is a result of poor matchmaking. Giving players spawn protection not only fixes neither of these problems, but it introduces a new imbalance: if Player A sees the newly-spawned enemy Player B, Player B can get a free head start on damaging Player A. I donāt see how this could add anything but even more frustration for players.
> Thereās nothing skillful about killing someone before they can react.
Durr. The skill is in forcing someone into that position to begin with. If the spawns are optimal and yet the best possible spawn location for Player B is still within killing range and/or line-of-sight of Player A, then Player Aās entire team probably has the entire map locked down pretty good.
> Only in social matchmaking; there really isnāt a need to encourage pubstomping in social. Iād even argue that spawn protection would benefit social gametypes.
>
> But in ranked, spawn prediction is a staple of competitive play and its removal was, in my opinion, one of the worst ways in which Halo 4 fell down.
If thatās the attitude we are having towards social, then why would spawn killing in social be a problem? Itās just social.
I argue the whole thing because it should be a completely smooth transition from social to competitive. It should be the exact same rules in both social and ranked. No extra damage on certain weapons, no spawn protection, no elements of confusion. Just same play across the board. The only differences being one is ranked, one is social. Maybe a few weapon spawns and locations, but those are normal things to expect from the competitive community.
> It matters just as much as in ranked.
>
> Just because itās social doesnāt mean you should hinder great players and help worse ones.
Social shouldnāt be about skill. Without a skill-based matching system, thereās always the potential for a pubstomper to come in and ruin the game. Iām not sure why this is such a controversial opinion, but I like to be able to have a non-jarring experience when I tire of ranked play.
Spawn protection should consist of the spawn engine not respawning players into exploding grenades or rockets.
Spawn protection should consist of not spawning players into a sniperās crosshairs.
Spawn protection should NOT be gifting players invincibility off spawn.
> > Get better at the game and you wonāt have the problem as much.
>
> A bit harsh lol but I agree, honestly. If you have a problem with people spawn-trapping you, donāt let it happen.
> If you allowed yourselves to get spawn-trapped in the first place, you probably werenāt the better team anyway. Thatās how Iāve always looked at it (and before anybody says anything, Iāve probably been on the receiving end of spawn-traps more than not).
I felt bad for saying it, but itās the truth lol. People need to quit whining about things. Spawn camping is controllable from both sides. Itās easy to break. If you donāt like being spawn camped, do something about it besides whining. Get better at the game so it wonāt happen to you. No one should get handouts in anything. You shouldnāt be handed invincibility for dying. Thatās just dumb. Iāll agree that there has never been a perfect spawn system and it may be a long time until it actually happens. But that doesnāt mean people should be rewarded for playing poorly.
> No
>
> Itād be a restriction on better players and the game helping those who arenāt as good. Even in social.
Killing players as soon as they spawn doesnāt mean youāre good. It just means youāre quick and a bad player who canāt play the game right.
> Not to talk about possible abuses.
Thats kinda ironic thing to say
EDIT: Iāve only ever been spawnkilled in Objective Capture the Flag. Never Slayer which never happens to me. So base on my exp the ones spawnkilling are in Objective gametypes, not getting the objective and just farming.
I say spawn protection for CTF and Objective
> > No
> >
> > Itād be a restriction on better players and the game helping those who arenāt as good. Even in social.
>
> Killing players as soon as they spawn doesnāt mean youāre good. It just means youāre quick and a bad player who canāt play the game right.
If the game decides to spawn me, or anyone else, into a situation I canāt get out of, like when I spawned infront of a team mate who had a rocket coming right at him, while hilarious, it was also frustrating that the system decided me to spawn there. Or, when my friend spawned in the middle of a SWAT firefight in Reach, two of us fought two of them, he spawned in the exact middle and got headshotted immediatley, while hilarious, also annoying/irritating.
Thatās a problem with the spawn system.
On another note, I wouldnāt say that anyone who manages to force another player into such a corner a ābad playerā, nor would I say that player canāt play the game right. Iād say thatās you having some sort of āhonor game codeā which dictates whatās wrong and right in how you play. But thatās an entirely different subject.
A game allowing a player to several times kill a player almost instantly after them spawning have some issues with the spawn system. Spawn trapping is an entirely different thing, and a completely legit tactic, like camping etc. Game mechanics however dictate how effective and hard to pull of these things are.
> > Not to talk about possible abuses.
>
> Thats kinda ironic thing to say
Please elaborate.
> Thereās nothing skillful about killing someone before they can react. The fact spawn trapping is glorified is a farce. I really do not care if it takes knowledge or communication to execute, itās infinitely more skillful to actually fight your opponent.
The ease of spawn trapping depends solely on the spawn system, map design, and spawn placement. In principle, itās possible to create a scenario where a team of four is never capable of spawn killing an opponent, so spawn trapping can be made arbitrarily difficult. Between it being impossible to kill an at spawn, and opponents practically spawning in front of you, itās reasonable to assume that there is an optimal design where a successful spawn kill takes more skill than having a āfairā fight against the opponent.
It all comes down to the quality of spawns. Any kind of absolute statement about spawn killing (āItās good/bad, period.ā), is ill-advised. But the fact of the matter is that the algorithmic nature of the spawn system presents an option for deep metagame that canāt be ignored.
> At the same time, spawn protection has its own issues. If implemented poorly it just leads to more unfair outcomes (such as someone sitting with invincibility, lining up a 1-shot while you canāt do anything). Fortunately though Halo is a game where you canāt get one-shot by default weapons, unlike other games with spawn protection.
Personally, I donāt see spawn protection as a solution of any kind. All it does is switch the advantage of the situation from the waiting player to the spawning player. It doesnāt matter if a player canāt get killed from one shot, the spawning player still gets a head start in the encounter. The other player has survived, the other is spawning because they died. Considering that, itās pretty obvious that the survivor should have the advantage, if it were to happen that they met someone who just happened to spawn, whether it was by chance or elaborate strategy.
If the spawn system works properly there is no need for this. A player should always be spawned in a relatively safe location not beside enemyās. Assuming team play of course.