Should the DMR return

Games Halo 5: Guardians
#1

Do you guys the community want the DMR to return? whether its tweaked or not, we all know the DMR was overpowered at first but now in close quarters it is beaten by most weapons like it should be the only way to win is to get all headshots and land 2-3 bullets before the other guy starts shooting. I for one would love it to return as evident by my service record but i equally love the BR so I wouldn’t mind having to use it as I always use the BR now when playing team slayer or when I feel im gonna be close to my foes.

There may be a lot of these threads but i haven’t seen one with a poll and if there is then I am sorry, so should it return a simple yes or no.

#2

the only “Long Range” weapons should be power weapons like the sniper. Otherwise it breaks map movement.

For example: The Pit. Someone can just sit on snipe tower and they have a lethal presence on the opposite tower, long hall, green box, and sword bridge. Those are all of the choke points where people are trying to gain access to the opposite side. The BR can lay down some suppressing fire on the areas, but it doesn’t have the lethal force of the DMR at that range. Someone with a BR has to reposition themselves to get decent shots on someone who is on the opposite tower or long hall. This means it creates movement. If the person is a team player, maybe they stay and use communication to relay the opponents position, but that promotes teamwork which is also a key aspect of Halo. In Halo 3, the only long range weapons on The Pit were snipers and it was a very competitively driven map because people had to constantly move to get new angles on distant targets or to hold down their side of the map or make a push onto the other side. Now people can stay stagnant and put lethal fire everywhere.

Making long range rifles also means that maps have to be larger, which hurts CQC. The CQC battles all will have to take place inside buildings, and without the proper cover and safe passages to new buildings, it promotes camping and stagnant play from CQC weapons also. I’ve seen too many games where people with DMRs and Light Rifles just sit in a base on Ragnarok or sit on top of the base on Complex and don’t move because they have a dominant force over the entire map. There should be a non-power weapon that can control a large scale map. The range and lethality of the BR is the perfect combination. It is lethal at short to medium range, but only a disruption at long range due to it’s burst fire. It would take a 11 shots in H4 to kill an opponent at distance with a BR if only one bullet hit the player out of the burst. That’s one trigger pull shy of a whole clip, which gives someone an insane amount of time to escape the attackers Line of Sight.

For the people who claim the BR is too powerful, the only problem with the BR actually has nothing to do with the BR itself, but the Aim Assistance in H4 as well as the Bullet Magnetism which makes it too easy to land shots and kill other players. The damage output and kill time of the BR is just fine, and could arguably be faster if the shots were perfect, but it should be harder to land those perfect shots. Both Bullet Magnetism and Aim Assist should be reduced for all weapons so it takes better shooting to land shots, thus making every dual less one sided in favor of whomever lands the first shot in all encounters.

#3

Of course! The DMR is definitely one of my favorite weapons. It’s more precise and clean compared to the BR. Plus, it adds weapon variety by being in the game. People may see it as being similar to the BR, but overall it’s a completely different weapon. Keeping it would make the majority of players happy.

#4

We already have two semi automatic precision weapons: the Magnum and the Carbine. The DMR is redundant.

#5

Yes, the DMR should return but only as a map pick-up.

#6

> Yes, the DMR should return but only as a map pick-up.

Agreed: make it a Mid-tier weapon (Same level as SAW, needler, Sticky det) and have it placed on larger maps.

This makes it more unique compared to the BR, give people more reason to pick it up off the ground, and could be sort of a more common but weaker alternative to the sniper, giving you some of the range but not the power, and with less of the weaknesses.

#7

I think it should return not only because a very significant portion of the community supports it, but also because it has the potential to fill a low end power weapon much like the needler or the brute shot. These weapons have certain niches, but are still broader in use than say a sniper, which obviously is useful for almost only long range combat. Making the DMR adept at long range, while not being as useful as the sniper, and slightly better as a utility, while make it stand out in the sandbox. Essentially a BR that is better at long range and less useful in other scenarios. Map pick up obviously.

Lol, just realized I put a similar thing to the person above me without reading it. Great minds?

#8

Since Reach I think the DMR has become the new standard weapon.
However, I would like to see the BR, DMR, Carbine, and Light Rifle all map pick ups or in slayer pro/swat/etc gametypes.
I hope they bring back dual wielding, and don’t make BR/DMR starts, because they just ruin CQC gameplay

#9

I tend to twitch aim, so I much prefer the DMR to the BR just in terms of the single shot vs three shot burst.

#10

I really like the gun so it would be nice to see it as a map pickup on larger maps.

#11

imo the DMR should return, just not in its original form.

At first in Halo 4, the DMR served as the spammable, more viable weapon in comparison to the BR. However, when the title update came out, the DMR become redundant because the only range it beat the BR at was at longer ranges, in which case it would just be better not to engage a player at all. Basically, if the DMR should return then it should not compete with the BR/carbine for the same niche (lightrifle is the same.)

Instead, I believe that the DMR should serve a more unique purpose. My idea is that the DMR should be like the Halo 1 pistol with a much slower rate of fire. It would take 3 shots to kill and have a 3x zoom, but it would be slightly less accurate than it currently is and have a shorter range so that players wouldn’t be able to cross map as easily as they can do in reach and H4. It should also usually appear as a weapon pick up only, and be treated as a better version of the BR that players should fight for. That way, the DMR would serve a unique purpose in the weapon sandbox; it is a stronger alternative to the BR that is better at long range, and players will want to fight to get it. However, it is more susceptible to AR chargers than the BR because of its slow rate of fire. It should be a weak power weapon that is ideal for long range engagements but suffers at short ranges, just like how the shotgun is ideal for short range only.

#12

There’s nothing wrong with the DMR; I see no reason it shouldn’t return, and frankly, I’m gonna be pretty pissed if it’s gone.

#13

The DMR should definitely return. And it should be an option to spawn with along with the other primary rifles.

But the amount of DMR hate I’m seeing here surprises me, where were all of you when I made this?

#14

> There’s nothing wrong with the DMR.

Exactly, its just too damn versatile. Hence why it should go. Weapon choice should be associated with a game of costs and benefits. If you pick something up which is powerful there should be something behind that power to make you think twice about using it so that other weapons can have some utility. With the shotgun, it’s range. With the rocket, it’s the lead time and limited ammo capacity. With the sniper, its the fact that using it shows to all the world that you have no style.

If you have a weapon that continuously works well at every range and situation (thanks especially to how well the DMR pairs with grenades and melee attacks) then there’s really no need to use anything else except those few weapons that simply get the job done quicker. You reduce the game to a duality of one shot kill and 5 shot kill with perhaps a smidgeon of room left over for those few situations where a weapon that kills in >5 can get a CQC leg-up on the DMR (or its ilk since without that particular offender you have lined up half a dozen other guns with the same fundamental problem.)

It’s just boring. We have sci-fi confetti launchers and rail guns for a reason. We shouldn’t ask that 343 neglect it simply to keep with the underwhelming status quo of the franchise.

#15

> Yes, the DMR should return but only as a map pick-up.

So its only slightly less common than being a spawn weapon and the ‘balance issues’ it has are still prevalent.

#16

> > Yes, the DMR should return but only as a map pick-up.
>
> So its only slightly less common than being a spawn weapon and the ‘balance issues’ it has are still prevalent.

Two of them on the map is a lot less than potentially 12 or 14 on the map, right?

At least with map pickups the map creators determine how many would be on the map at start, and how long they take to respawn instead of both teams in a BTB game all starting with one and getting a fresh batch of ammo after each death. Keep a DMR at both bases with a 45 sec respawn, and one in the middle of the map, and that’s a significant reduction than everyone having one and getting a new clip after each death.

In the end though, I don’t really care. DMR’s nice and all, but I won’t lose any sleep over it returning or not returning.

#17

> the only “Long Range” weapons should be power weapons like the sniper. Otherwise it breaks map movement

So, do you mean when we place the DMR on the map all the issues you listed will automatically vanish and it will suddenly encourage its user to move?

> Making long range rifles also means that maps have to be larger, which hurts CQC.

That’s not correct.
Map size is primarily the result of killtimes, movement and player count.
Long killtimes and fast movement speeds (i.e. Sprint speed) are what forces maps to be larger or rather what forces an increase of distances between “cover” what hurts CQC because the distance between the average encounter will increase with that as well, not the addition of long range rifles.
If I incorporate long range rifles and hence long range combat into the design of a map is actually completely optional, just like it is with every other additional item/element (weapons, vehicles, gametypes).

The problems arise when you try to play a map with items/elements that were not (really) incorporated into its design or when you try to incorporate too much into it, like it is (both) the case in H4.
In H4, since you can choose out of 3 different range types when it comes to starting rifles you will naturally restrict the player to a certain zone depending on the weapon he/she selected, implying the map contains different “range zones” to (intentionally or unintentionally) support those weapons on the map.
As a result the AR users “camp” the close range zones, the DMR users “camp” the long range zones and the BR users “camp” the middle spot or jump between them.

> The CQC battles all will have to take place inside buildings, and without the proper cover and safe passages to new buildings, it promotes camping and stagnant play from CQC weapons also. I’ve seen too many games where people with DMRs and Light Rifles just sit in a base on Ragnarok or sit on top of the base on Complex and don’t move because they have a dominant force over the entire map.

Well, CQC will naturally take place within narrow areas with short sightlines, what doesn’t indicate buildings though.
However the issue you describe here has inherently nothing to do with long range rifles but just with bad map design, in regards to alternative pathways, sightlines, incorporation of additional items, etc.
I’ve seen too many posts with complaints about how long range rifles at spawn brought the movement on Valhalla/Ragnarok at a halt, apparently disregarding the fact that those “Blood Gulch maps” naturally create lethargic and monotonous movement in the first place and that the map is basically one big long range combat zone with its massive sightlines caused by its wide and open fields.
So, actually it is no wonder that a map that is basically just one big open space fails to encourage movement, especially with long range rifles (since basically the entire map is their territory), no matter if they are placed on the map or are available at spawn.

When you want to blame something in regards to hampered player and map movement, then blame a loadout system in which a main difference between weapons is range and blame certain incompatibilities of maps or rather inappropriate weapon placement/offering on certain maps or poorly designed maps which fail to generate great movement in general.
When you want to blame something in regards to hurt CQC because of increased distances/sightlines, then blame Sprint in combination with Halo’s long killtimes for that.
Blaming long range rifles for naturally causing all those issues is absurd.

#18

> > Yes, the DMR should return but only as a map pick-up.
>
> So its only slightly less common than being a spawn weapon and the ‘balance issues’ it has are still prevalent.

The reason why the DMR is so prevalent is because players are allowed to spawn with them. Play a game of ARs and then BRs on Halo 3. What do you notice in those games. In AR spawns, there’s usually a bunch of ARs lying around. In BR spawns, there’s usually a bunch of BRs lying around. Shocking, I know.

Not being able to spawn with a DMR would quickly change the role the weapon has in the weapon sandbox. With players not being able to spawn with the DMR, it gives players less opportunities to refill their ammo. Spawning the DMR in Pink 3 in Midship, for example, would provide the player that takes control of Pink 3 a significant advantage over those who do not have the DMR.

#19

I think it should return, but needs to be modified and moderated.

For example: It can NOT have the ridiculous aim assist it’s so notorious for at long range. While it should be CAPABLE of firing straight and tagging targets far away as it does in either Reach or Halo 4, it’s aim assist should behave more like Reach’s, where the player has to actually put effort into where their shots go to do it. Thus giving it range superiority over the BR without making it the ridiculous semi-power weapon it can be on large maps in 4.

In terms of moderation? I thing every spawn weapon needs moderation. Not to remove the idea of spawn customization entirely, but to limit it so that it’s sensical. For instance, there should be 3 clearly defined gametypes. Slayer, Slayer Pro, Big Team Slayer.

Similarly to Halo 1-R, the gametype dictates the class of weapon you can spawn with, however like Halo 4, you can pick a weapon from within that class. In Slayer you can Spawn with Automatics such as the AR, Storm Rifle, Plasma Repeater, Suppressor etc. In Pro you get Utility weapons, such as the BR and Carbine. And finally in Big Team you get precision weapons, like the DMR, Needle Rifle, and Light Rifle.

This ensures that every player gets weapons with the same flexibility of range and the same power, while allowing players the ability to pick a weapon they simply like more. Prefer to lead your shots? Take the Storm Rifle over the AR. Like burst fire? Take the BR over the Carbine. Enjoy a fast rate of fire? Take the NR over the DMR.

#20

I say yes, but as a map pick up and slightly more powerful. That is, only if we have only BR starts or only Assault Rifle starts, if not, then I think it should remain as is, it fits its niche as a long range support rifle well, IMO