I think they should lose Loadouts - I think they made Halo a lot more unbalanced due to the fact that people were able to start with guns like the plasma pistol - ultimately making vehicles practically useless if they can instantly get stunned and blown up straight away. I also think - due to the loadouts, less players take the initiative to rush for the map weapons (which used to be weapons like the plasma pistol) since they are just a few kills away from an ORDNANCE drop. Specializations in my opinion feel cheap and affects the base player traits. Unlimited sprint and other specializations like ‘Explosives’ gives the player an advantage over another.
It depends.
In multiplayer the loadouts should be the same as in Reach, no perks
And most time you only choose your AA except in special gametypes like in invasion.
343 can make halo 4 loadouts a option in spartan ops or firefight.
But perks should never return in multiplayer again.
I like ordinance because in forge its cheaper to use, but random ordinance shouldn’t be power weapons.
I personally like them as grenade locations.
But personnel ordinance shouldn’t return.
I shouldn’t get free power weapons because I play good, I need to earn them by paying attention on the map, when they respawn.
Loadouts can stay since they can be balanced.
Specialisations can stay because they offer a unique way in which to unlock stuff although a better way to unlock stuff could replace them. They can also stay since they dont have to include perks since the two are completely different things.
Personal ordnance should go from standard MP but it should be an option in custom games with a toggle bar on how hard it is to earn. Standard map ordnance should stay since it has no faults and often keeps the map fresh, although a mix between it and map placed weapons would be rather nice.
Loadouts should be pre-set like reach.
Armour mods / perks should definitely go, no doubt about it. They interfer with the formula too much, they seem wrong in halo. EQUAL STARTS!
Personal ordinance? I don’t have too much of an opinion on that.
Loadouts are fine, they just need to be adjusted.
However, Armor Mods, Specializations, and Ordnance are something that should never come back. While I don’t how it was even a REMOTELY good idea to let people call in a freaking ROCKET LAUNCHER down from the sky after getting a few “distractions”, I’m just assuming that 343i didn’t"realize" that there may or may not be a few game-breaking problems from doing so.
Personal Ordnance doesn’t make Halo more accessable, it just makes it frustrating and unpredictable to the point where I left the game altogether.
Also, why did we need Armor Mods? What good did they add to gameplay?
If 343i really wanted to make a perfect Loadout system, they didn’t have to copy/paste CoD’s formula for it. If 343i made their own loadout system, if they made one that was balanced, and if they made one that didn’t stagnate gameplay, perhaps a large piece of the community wouldn’t be so appalled by the very concept.
I mean seriously? We’re sacrificing gameplay elements that we’ve had since the beginning just so that we can have a “perk” for them! It’s absurd and completely unnecessary to have perks in Halo.
/rant over
Now, with Perks and Ordnance out of the question, we can improve loadouts so that they aren’t game breaking. In order to do this, we must restrict them to the following:
Primary Weapons:
- Assault Rifle
- Storm Rifle
- Battle Rifle
- Covenant Carbine
Secondary Weapons: - Magnum
- “Needle Pistol”
- SMG
- Plasma Rifle
Is that better?
Another thing: In order to enforce the notion of equal-starts, all Loadout options will be unlocked by default. No one should have any form of advantage over another because they “played the game more”. (Not that these weapons are unbalanced with each other, of course)
Loadouts are meh. I’m still debating whether or not I despise them or can tolerate them, it’s a tough one.
I mean, there will always be balance issues with loadouts because there’s always going to be that one weapon which is incredibly strong. It’s not like they can make everything the same just to balance them out otherwise they may as well give us equal starts.
The other things in the poll definitely need to go and never be mentioned again. I buy Halo to play Halo, not some generic shooter with perks and killstreaks.
Overcomplicating everything with Armour Abilities, perks, Ordnance tying to coexist with weapons on the map and Tactical Packages is what’s killing Halo 4 because it simply makes the game too chaotic and random.
The beauty of Halo was its simplicity, and I believe the way forward, funnily enough, lies with going back to basics.
> Now, with Perks and Ordnance out of the question, we can improve loadouts so that they aren’t game breaking. In order to do this, we must restrict them to the following:
>
> Primary Weapons:
> - Assault Rifle
> - Storm Rifle
> - Battle Rifle
> - Covenant Carbine
> Secondary Weapons:
> - Magnum
> - “Needle Pistol”
> - SMG
> - Plasma Rifle
>
> Is that better?
>
> Another thing: In order to enforce the notion of equal-starts, all Loadout options will be unlocked by default. No one should have any form of advantage over another because they “played the game more”. (Not that these weapons are unbalanced with each other, of course)
No, its not better. Because all our “options” are little more than reskins of other weapons. Why would I want the Plasma Rifle to return when it will almost certainly be nothing but a blue SMG? Or the Storm Rifle/Repeater being nothing more than a blue AR. Some slightly better plasma damage is not enough.
We already have a Covenant sidearm that is quite distinct from the magnum called the plasma pistol. However weapons with unique and interesting mechanics tend not to be balanced for loadouts. So instead we get this “Needle Pistol” which while not identical to the magnum, is designed to be be its counterpart in the “secondary” category because the plasma pistol is “unbalanced.”
Pretty much the only thing I would support for multiplayer would be a gears 2 style BR or Carbine option and that’s about it. I’m willing to Martyr the Carbine to let the entire sandbox stay unique.
As for the other topics I would agree.
> Loadouts are fine, they just need to be adjusted.
>
> However, Armor Mods, Specializations, and Ordnance are something that should never come back. While I don’t how it was even a REMOTELY good idea to let people call in a freaking ROCKET LAUNCHER down from the sky after getting a few “distractions”, I’m just assuming that 343i didn’t"realize" that there may or may not be a few game-breaking problems from doing so.
>
> Personal Ordnance doesn’t make Halo more accessable, it just makes it frustrating and unpredictable to the point where I left the game altogether.
>
> Also, why did we need Armor Mods? What good did they add to gameplay?
>
> If 343i really wanted to make a perfect Loadout system, they didn’t have to copy/paste CoD’s formula for it. If 343i made their own loadout system, if they made one that was balanced, and if they made one that didn’t stagnate gameplay, perhaps a large piece of the community wouldn’t be so appalled by the very concept.
>
> I mean seriously? We’re sacrificing gameplay elements that we’ve had since the beginning just so that we can have a “perk” for them! It’s absurd and completely unnecessary to have perks in Halo.
>
> /rant over
>
> Now, with Perks and Ordnance out of the question, we can improve loadouts so that they aren’t game breaking. In order to do this, we must restrict them to the following:
>
> Primary Weapons:
> - Assault Rifle
> - Storm Rifle
> - Battle Rifle
> - Covenant Carbine
> Secondary Weapons:
> - Magnum
> - “Needle Pistol”
> - SMG
> - Plasma Rifle
>
> Is that better?
>
> Another thing: In order to enforce the notion of equal-starts, all Loadout options will be unlocked by default. No one should have any form of advantage over another because they “played the game more”. (Not that these weapons are unbalanced with each other, of course)
I completely agree Andycu5.
> No, its not better. Because all our “options” are little more than reskins of other weapons. Why would I want the Plasma Rifle to return when it will almost certainly be nothing but a blue SMG? Or the Storm Rifle/Repeater being nothing more than a blue AR. Some slightly better plasma damage is not enough.
>
> We already have a Covenant sidearm that is quite distinct from the magnum called the plasma pistol. However weapons with unique and interesting mechanics tend not to be balanced for loadouts. So instead we get this “Needle Pistol” which while not identical to the magnum, is designed to be be its counterpart in the “secondary” category because the plasma pistol is “unbalanced.”
>
> Pretty much the only thing I would support for multiplayer would be a gears 2 style BR or Carbine option and that’s about it. I’m willing to Martyr the Carbine to let the entire sandbox stay unique.
>
> As for the other topics I would agree.
“All of our ‘options’ are little more than reskins of other weapons”? AR and BR are certainly not reskins of each other…
So the BR and Carbine reskins of each other? No; they each have enough differences to justify their inclusion (RoF, damage-per-shot, firing method, mag size). Its true the Storm Rifle is currently nothing more than a plasma-based AR, but that can be changed. Why not give the Storm Rifle a balanced “stun” effect/headshot bonus like the CE Plasma Rifle?
As for the Needle Pistol/Plasma Pistol debate, the PP causes so many problems when in loadouts (cripples vehicular combat, along with Plasma Grenades). The Needle Pistol would be designed to be balanced and fulfill the same role as the Magnum, leaving the PP to be placed on-map. That still leaves room to differentiate the NP from the Magnum, though; not being headshot-capable, having a faster firing rate, and super-combining after so many shots would make it different but balanced.
They CAN be fix.
They CAN be balanced.
They CAN fit into halo.
But 343i won’t do anything about it!
So just bring back equipment and power-ups. We know they work because they have in the past.
No need to break our heads TRYING to fix specials/AA’s and Load-outs.
I’ve said this before in another thread, and I’ll say it again. ALMOST anything similar to CoD just needs to go. I don’t want to feel alienated again, along with 75%+ of the player-base.
> > snip
>
> “All of our ‘options’ are little more than reskins of other weapons”?
>
> So the BR and Carbine reskins of each other? No; they each have enough differences to justify their inclusion (RoF, damage-per-shot, firing method, mag size). Its true the Storm Rifle is currently nothing more than a plasma-based AR, but that can be changed. Why not give the Storm Rifle a balanced “stun” effect/headshot bonus like the CE Plasma Rifle?
>
> As for the Needle Pistol/Plasma Pistol debate, the PP causes so many problems when in loadouts (cripples vehicular combat, along with Plasma Grenades). The Needle Pistol would be designed to be balanced and fulfill the same role as the Magnum, leaving the PP to be placed on-map. That still leaves room to differentiate the NP from the Magnum, though; not being headshot-capable, having a faster firing rate, and super-combining after so many shots would make it different but balanced.
The issue is that if you give all these other weapons their unique features, they tend to become imbalanced for loadouts just like the Plasma Pistol.
When I am talking about reskins, I am not saying they are identical in terms of rof, single vs burst, etc. What matters is if they are functionally identical. Very little changes in playstyle going from a BR to Carbine, AR to Storm Rifle, H2/H3 SMG to Plasma Rifle. Compared to the CE AR vs CE plasma Rifle, or Reach Magnum vs Plasma Pistol, ODST Automag vs Carbine, the loadout(or dual wielding) sandbox would likely be very homogenous.
The issue with the very nature of its design. Well the plasma pistol is too useful for loadouts, we need a covy counterpart of the magnum for “variety.” But you know it can’t be too different otherwise it would be unbalanced. That is the issue, you are limiting the potential of a weapon before it even has a chance, just to make room for loadouts.
I have a problem with designing/balancing things to fit in loadouts. Build a strong, diverse sandbox FIRST and then decide what can work and what won’t and then leave the rest alone.
> The issue is that if you give all these other weapons their unique features, they tend to become imbalanced for loadouts just like the Plasma Pistol.
>
> When I am talking about reskins, I am not saying they are identical in terms of rof, single vs burst, etc. What matters is if they are functionally identical. Very little changes in playstyle going from a BR to Carbine, AR to Storm Rifle, H2/H3 SMG to Plasma Rifle. Compared to the CE AR vs CE plasma Rifle, or Reach Magnum vs Plasma Pistol, ODST Automag vs Carbine, the loadout(or dual wielding) sandbox would likely be very homogenous.
>
> The issue with the very nature of its design. Well the plasma pistol is too useful for loadouts, we need a covy counterpart of the magnum for “variety.” But you know it can’t be too different otherwise it would be unbalanced. That is the issue, you are limiting the potential of a weapon before it even has a chance, just to make room for loadouts.
>
> I have a problem with designing/balancing things to fit in loadouts. Build a strong, diverse sandbox FIRST and then decide what can work and what won’t and then leave the rest alone.
Finally someone who understands.
There is far more variety between an AR and a DMR, than there is between H2SMG and H2PR. While the former two function very differently, the latter function almost the same and have balancing issues of their own.
> Why not give the Storm Rifle a balanced “stun” effect/headshot bonus like the CE Plasma Rifle?
We were having this discussion in another thread, but might as well bring it here.
Because if you were to do this, it would be the new plasma pistol. That is why I used the plasma pistol as an example. Covenant weapons can’t be powerful and still be balanced in loadouts without significantly buffing every other option.
If you were to give the Storm Rifle stun and headshot capability, the AR would need significant overhauls as well. Much like the magnum would need a buff to compete with the plasma pistol.
Loadouts can stay because they can offer variety without sacrificing balance. Just don’t look at Halo 4 for the right answer.
Specializations were a fun concept but the end result was a fail for me. The perks associated were pretty much busts. Halo 5 can keep the specializations and the armory tie-ins but keep it superficial; nothing that alters gameplay. These specializations could appear in your player card as nothing more than a badge of honor, and that would be fine by me.
Ordinance - let it go. It made multiplayer too complicated. All the power weapons… all the weaker vehicles because of them… all the points… all the noob points… all the rage over points scoring… not enough on-map weaponry or stuff to fight over… Nah. Nice experiment, but keep it out of future Halo, please.
Loadouts
I think loadouts would be great for Halo if limited to a choice of:
Primary: BR or Carbine
Secondary: AR or Plasma Rifle
Ordnance
Ordnance could be useful if limited to drops such as BR, CC, AR, PR, or Frags.
Specializations/Armor Mods
Armor Mods must disappear.
Uneven starts are not Halo.
As for Specializations, I agree with ira in that they should be limited to cosmetic unlocks and are shown in your Service Record.