The title pretty much says it all. I’m asking for opinions here, there are no right or wrong answers. Would you guys like John to still just be “lucky”, or would you prefer if something else took the place of luck? We know that John wasn’t the smartest, the strongest, or the fastest Spartan II, so the explanation we were given for his extraordinary feats was that he was lucky.
“… you had something they didn’t, something no one saw but me. Can you guess? Luck.” - Cortana, Halo 3 opening cinematic.
I could be totally wrong about this, but it seems like 343 has been shifting away from the “luck” angle, and they’ve been putting more spotlight on his tactical awareness and ability to make the correct decisions in an instant during life-or-death scenarios. Whether this is just them expounding on his luck, or trying to “replace” it remains to be seen.
What I want to know is:
Is luck enough for you guys? Personally, I think John’s “secret weapon” being luck is kind of a cop-out. It makes me feel like John is inferior and can only complete these missions because of some supernatural force that inexplicably favors him over anyone else. I don’t like the idea of his accomplishments being credited to luck instead of his own abilities. It’s not satisfying for me, is it satisfying for you?
Note: This thread is completely opinion-based, so let’s avoid opinion-bashing and keep the conversation civil. There is no incorrect response to the question I’m asking, so let’s not pretend like our opinions are better than anyone else’s. Let’s just be cool and exchange some thoughts, copacetic?
I don’t think that John having luck makes him inferior. He is as good as any Spartan II but he is also better than any Spartan II because he has luck. It’s sort of the only way to explain how Master Chief has survived all the events in the Halo games other than he’s just very good at shooting aliens in the face. It’s a subtle way of hinting that Master Chief is good because he is skilled and he is lucky because he is played by the player.
Cortana sees John’s luck as the reason why she picked him and stayed with him. It could be argued that she was attracted to him because of this and it was what caused her to make this decision of who to pick.
I honestly don’t think that his Luck is getting retconned or changed, it just isn’t clear to anyone other than Cortana that John is very lucky. Think about the Halo 3 TV trailer where Master Chief uses the bubble shield and then charges some Brutes. Cortana sees his skill and his luck playing into a factor, where most people will chalk up his skill to just that, skill.
> 2533274795233660;2:
> I don’t think that John having luck makes him inferior. He is as good as any Spartan II but he is also better than any Spartan II because he has luck. It’s sort of the only way to explain how Master Chief has survived all the events in the Halo games other than he’s just very good at shooting aliens in the face. It’s a subtle way of hinting that Master Chief is good because he is skilled and he is lucky because he is played by the player.
>
> Cortana sees John’s luck as the reason why she picked him and stayed with him. It could be argued that she was attracted to him because of this and it was what caused her to make this decision of who to pick.
>
> I honestly don’t think that his Luck is getting retconned or changed, it just isn’t clear to anyone other than Cortana that John is very lucky. Think about the Halo 3 TV trailer where Master Chief uses the bubble shield and then charges some Brutes. Cortana sees his skill and his luck playing into a factor, where most people will chalk up his skill to just that, skill.
You make good points, but the part that really bothers me is how Cortana is the only one who’s able to detect his luck. Obviously the luck is testable and quantifiable in some way, or an AI wouldn’t be able to detect it. And if the luck can be tested and quantified, it should be able to replicated or at the very least observable by other humans.
Since Cortana is an artificial intelligence, it seems really strange to me that she is able to detect John’s luck, but nobody else can, considering she is just a construct developed by humans.
> 2533274810150284;3:
> > 2533274795233660;2:
> > I don’t think that John having luck makes him inferior. He is as good as any Spartan II but he is also better than any Spartan II because he has luck. It’s sort of the only way to explain how Master Chief has survived all the events in the Halo games other than he’s just very good at shooting aliens in the face. It’s a subtle way of hinting that Master Chief is good because he is skilled and he is lucky because he is played by the player.
> >
> > Cortana sees John’s luck as the reason why she picked him and stayed with him. It could be argued that she was attracted to him because of this and it was what caused her to make this decision of who to pick.
> >
> > I honestly don’t think that his Luck is getting retconned or changed, it just isn’t clear to anyone other than Cortana that John is very lucky. Think about the Halo 3 TV trailer where Master Chief uses the bubble shield and then charges some Brutes. Cortana sees his skill and his luck playing into a factor, where most people will chalk up his skill to just that, skill.
>
>
> You make good points, but the part that really bothers me is how Cortana is the only one who’s able to detect his luck. Obviously the luck is testable and quantifiable in some way, or an AI wouldn’t be able to detect it. And if the luck can be tested and quantified, it should be able to replicated or at the very least observable by other humans.
>
> Since Cortana is an artificial intelligence, it seems really strange to me that she is able to detect John’s luck, but nobody else can, considering she is just a construct developed by humans.
I think he meant cortana is able to notice how sometimes john happens to get the “unlikely” occurrence, the small chance. While other humans see this as skill, maybe cortana notices how incredibly, well, lucky he is pulling off all these stunts. John is always getting the positive outcome in situations where the odds are greatly against him.
> 2533274898131165;5:
> > 2533274810150284;3:
> > > 2533274795233660;2:
> > > I don’t think that John having luck makes him inferior. He is as good as any Spartan II but he is also better than any Spartan II because he has luck. It’s sort of the only way to explain how Master Chief has survived all the events in the Halo games other than he’s just very good at shooting aliens in the face. It’s a subtle way of hinting that Master Chief is good because he is skilled and he is lucky because he is played by the player.
> > >
> > > Cortana sees John’s luck as the reason why she picked him and stayed with him. It could be argued that she was attracted to him because of this and it was what caused her to make this decision of who to pick.
> > >
> > > I honestly don’t think that his Luck is getting retconned or changed, it just isn’t clear to anyone other than Cortana that John is very lucky. Think about the Halo 3 TV trailer where Master Chief uses the bubble shield and then charges some Brutes. Cortana sees his skill and his luck playing into a factor, where most people will chalk up his skill to just that, skill.
> >
> >
> > You make good points, but the part that really bothers me is how Cortana is the only one who’s able to detect his luck. Obviously the luck is testable and quantifiable in some way, or an AI wouldn’t be able to detect it. And if the luck can be tested and quantified, it should be able to replicated or at the very least observable by other humans.
> >
> > Since Cortana is an artificial intelligence, it seems really strange to me that she is able to detect John’s luck, but nobody else can, considering she is just a construct developed by humans.
>
>
> I think he meant cortana is able to notice how sometimes john happens to get the “unlikely” occurrence, the small chance. While other humans see this as skill, maybe cortana notices how incredibly, well, lucky he is pulling off all these stunts. John is always getting the positive outcome in situations where the odds are greatly against him.
Yeah I totally get that, I just don’t understand why it can’t just be skill instead of luck. I feel that bringing luck into the equation just muddies the water. Nothing else in halo is supernatural, so having “luck” suggests that there are supernatural forces at work, at that they for some reason favor John.
> 2533274894863132;7:
> Isn’t the idea behind his luck related to mendicant bias guiding him in some way?
Not as far as I’m aware, but it would be totally bonkers if it turned out that way. I would be completely mind-fecked if everything that’s ever happened in Halo has just been an elaborate chess game orchestrated by Mendicant Bias to achieve some goal of his.
> 2533274810150284;8:
> > 2533274894863132;7:
> > Isn’t the idea behind his luck related to mendicant bias guiding him in some way?
>
>
> Not as far as I’m aware, but it would be totally bonkers if it turned out that way. I would be completely mind-fecked if everything that’s ever happened in Halo has just been an elaborate chess game orchestrated by Mendicant Bias to achieve some goal of his.
I’m into the idea that he deliberately cut off the chief half of the fud so that he could teleport him towards reqiuem to meet the librarian and defeat didact to try and give humanity the mantle. I hope that guardian is being controlled by him and that that’s his tomb in that old e3 trailer.It would be interesting to see him go power crazy again so we can have unsc marines and blue team, vs. didact and prometheans, vs. mendicant bias and flood.
Leave it alone, Halo has been retconned enough (looking at you, Halo 4). Let’s try to keep things as consistent as possible from now on (although I doubt that will ever happen TBH).
> 2533274810150284;6:
> > 2533274898131165;5:
> > > 2533274810150284;3:
> > > > 2533274795233660;2:
> > > > I don’t think that John having luck makes him inferior. He is as good as any Spartan II but he is also better than any Spartan II because he has luck. It’s sort of the only way to explain how Master Chief has survived all the events in the Halo games other than he’s just very good at shooting aliens in the face. It’s a subtle way of hinting that Master Chief is good because he is skilled and he is lucky because he is played by the player.
> > > >
> > > > Cortana sees John’s luck as the reason why she picked him and stayed with him. It could be argued that she was attracted to him because of this and it was what caused her to make this decision of who to pick.
> > > >
> > > > I honestly don’t think that his Luck is getting retconned or changed, it just isn’t clear to anyone other than Cortana that John is very lucky. Think about the Halo 3 TV trailer where Master Chief uses the bubble shield and then charges some Brutes. Cortana sees his skill and his luck playing into a factor, where most people will chalk up his skill to just that, skill.
> > >
> > >
> > > You make good points, but the part that really bothers me is how Cortana is the only one who’s able to detect his luck. Obviously the luck is testable and quantifiable in some way, or an AI wouldn’t be able to detect it. And if the luck can be tested and quantified, it should be able to replicated or at the very least observable by other humans.
> > >
> > > Since Cortana is an artificial intelligence, it seems really strange to me that she is able to detect John’s luck, but nobody else can, considering she is just a construct developed by humans.
> >
> >
> > I think he meant cortana is able to notice how sometimes john happens to get the “unlikely” occurrence, the small chance. While other humans see this as skill, maybe cortana notices how incredibly, well, lucky he is pulling off all these stunts. John is always getting the positive outcome in situations where the odds are greatly against him.
>
>
> Yeah I totally get that, I just don’t understand why it can’t just be skill instead of luck. I feel that bringing luck into the equation just muddies the water. Nothing else in halo is supernatural, so having “luck” suggests that there are supernatural forces at work, at that they for some reason favor John.
Well I think they use “luck” the same way a lot of people do, just getting that small chance multiple times. Not in a supernatural way, more of a mathematical way. Cortana is an AI, and she probably calculates john’s success/ chance for survival in each activity, and john just happens to come out on top each time, making him lucky.
Cortana could also see it this way because she is the most “human” AI, so she can see his rate of success, and in a way grasp on the luck aspect a lot of humans would see it if they were watching john.
> 2535432359236232;10:
> Leave it alone, Halo has been retconned enough (looking at you, Halo 4). Let’s try to keep things as consistent as possible from now on (although I doubt that will ever happen TBH).
I think luck is about the least consistent thing in Halo. It’s the only supernatural element in the entire franchise, and it apparently only applies to one person: John. It bothers me because it feels tacked on, unnecessary, and out of place. I just don’t see a reason for John to be “lucky” instead of just “skilled”.
Honestly, I think Halo could use a few more retcons. Bungie left some pretty despicable plot holes and inconsistencies that need to be patched up if we want a nice consistent story.
> 2533274795233660;13:
> It could also be just a way to explain away how he survives falling from orbit and other crazy stuff he has done in the games.
I thought we had the armor’s gel layer to thank for that? Also, Noble Six survived a pretty gnarly fall from the Long Night of Solace, and he didn’t have John’s luck to help him do it.
> 2535432359236232;10:
> Leave it alone, Halo has been retconned enough (looking at you, Halo 4). Let’s try to keep things as consistent as possible from now on (although I doubt that will ever happen TBH).
What did H4 retcon that wasn’t purely aesthetic? If we’re going to be pointing fingers at retconning, I’d look to Reach. Quite a few plot holes in 3 as well that would probably benefit from a few.
Speed and strength doesn’t mean all that much on the battlefield where John is a great leader and tactical genius, able to devise the correct course of action (as Mendez describes it in HTT) almost instantly.
I think the luck thing should be completely omitted as an actual character trait for Chief. I’d like the luck thing brought up as a dialogue piece between characters or something minor, but I’ve always hated the luck element as a tangible factor. If Chief’s luck in Halo 3 was meant to be is purely symbolic, then they should have expanded on it to make it more clear. If Chief’s luck is an actual thing within the universe, then it is incredibly out of place. I do think it’s a cop-out, and makes Chief himself less likable and less realistic.
I think something better to attribute to Chief’s success is that he isn’t the best in one single area, he’s the jack of all trades which allows him to comfortably slip into any role. From tactical maneuvers to CQC, to sniping, to explosives, to flying ships, to piloting vehicles, he’s great at all of them. THAT should be why Chief excels so much.
> 2533274810150284;1:
> The title pretty much says it all. I’m asking for opinions here, there are no right or wrong answers. Would you guys like John to still just be “lucky”, or would you prefer if something else took the place of luck? We know that John wasn’t the smartest, the strongest, or the fastest Spartan II, so the explanation we were given for his extraordinary feats was that he was lucky.
>
> “… you had something they didn’t, something no one saw but me. Can you guess? Luck.” - Cortana, Halo 3 opening cinematic.
>
> I could be totally wrong about this, but it seems like 343 has been shifting away from the “luck” angle, and they’ve been putting more spotlight on his tactical awareness and ability to make the correct decisions in an instant during life-or-death scenarios. Whether this is just them expounding on his luck, or trying to “replace” it remains to be seen.
>
> What I want to know is:
>
> Is luck enough for you guys? Personally, I think John’s “secret weapon” being luck is kind of a cop-out. It makes me feel like John is inferior and can only complete these missions because of some supernatural force that inexplicably favors him over anyone else. I don’t like the idea of his accomplishments being credited to luck instead of his own abilities. It’s not satisfying for me, is it satisfying for you?
>
> Note: This thread is completely opinion-based, so let’s avoid opinion-bashing and keep the conversation civil. There is no incorrect response to the question I’m asking, so let’s not pretend like our opinions are better than anyone else’s. Let’s just be cool and exchange some thoughts, copacetic?
Funny, I was just reading Halo: Evolutions and got to this part…
> Soldiers forged from youth to serve as tools of war-
>
> weapons of direct and conclusive destruction-the men
>
> and women of the classified military project known as the
>
> SPARTAN-II program will live on in legend following
>
> their exploits during the Human-Covenant War.
>
>
> Prepared for the harsh realities of combat against known
>
> enemies, but thrust into battle with forces unimaginable-
>
> and terrifyingly alien-the Spartan-IIs, and later the
>
> Spartan-IIIs, delivered numerous decisive victories against
>
> the overwhelming might of the Covenant.
>
>
> Altered to a level far beyond that of a normal human, the
>
> warriors of the Spartan-II program were humanity’s best,
>
> and possibly only, hope when faced with the threat of ex-
>
> tinction from an advanced alien collective bent on our
>
> eradication in the name of false prophecies and hidden
>
> agendas.
>
>
> Rising through the flames of war, echoing through the
>
> silent vacuum of space, word of the Spartans’ deeds
>
> spread throughout the human colonies-offering salva-
>
> tion, offering a faint glimpse at ultimate victory.
>
>
> Thus came a “Demon”-a hero, a soldier, a man. One
>
> Spartan above all others; equal but for one defining
>
> factor-one immeasurable advantage. Like his brothers
>
> and sisters, he was trained to fight, to win, a master of the
>
> latest weapons of war. But Spartan-117, John-117,
>
> had one intangible asset few others possessed-luck.
>
>
> Added to an unmatched drive to win-whether it be a
>
> simple game, or heated combat-Spartan-117’s uncanny
>
> combination of finely honed skills and unprecedented
>
> good fortune made for the ultimate warrior in a battle
>
> against impossible odds.
>
>
> Never one to give in, never one to relent, the Master
>
> Chief, and each of his fellow Spartans, did more than
>
> engage the enemy; they delivered hope-with each burst
>
> of gunfire, with every battle won.