"Should have been in at launch"

Games Halo 5: Guardians
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> > > > Oh boo hoo. You didn’t have exactly what you wanted at launch. Then don’t buy it at launch. Don’t keep playing and complaining about everything. Am I saying that halo 5 is the best halo…no. Am I a fanboy that defends everything 343 does…no. but come on guys, yes I get it. It would have been nice to have more modes and what not at launch. I understand. I’ve been playing halo for years. I love it. But they have been listening the whole time. **Where’s grifball? Boom, free in the update. Wheres infection? Boom, coming in the free update. Where’s btb? In that free update.**They have not made us pay for ONE update or dlc, it has all been free. Yes, they have microtransactions, but you’re not forced to buy them. And considering what many other companies do to their players by making them pay for simple dlc, this is a breath of fresh air. I appreciate that they are giving us free updates with more content. Although I admit, I wish they wouldn’t keep making remix maps. But seriously, no one is even saying thank you for adding these modes. You just keep complaining it wasn’t at launch. So 343, thank you for adding more modes, reqs, armor, etc. For FREE.
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> > > In regards to the bolded part, you say it like there are other developers out there cutting popular game modes from their games and trying to sell them back as dlc. Tell me, which developers are doing this? Because I honestly can’t think of any.
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> > > 343 would’ve also been fools to even try to sell us these game modes. They wouldn’t have dared to because they knew almost no one would buy them.
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> > I’m not saying developers cut modes necessarily, but Content on purpose just to sell it. Destiny was absolutely terrible. Me and my friend were able to glitch into areas in that game that were later part of paid dlc. But it was already there. The textures, environments, it was already on the disc. Ea with star wars battlefront. They didn’t even have a campaign mode, and tried to sell a $50 SEASON PASS for content. Activision with call of duty. They sell 30-40 dollar season passes. And they are proudly displayed within stores like gamestop where the LITERALLY SHOW YOU THE MAPS, THEIR NAMES, AND WEOPONS, but just won’t give it to you. 343 is giving free updates with maps, modes, armor, weapons, etc. So to me, the ends justify the means.
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> Ok, but those are completely different things. I’m not trying to defend any of those practices, but the developers/publishers you mentioned aren’t cutting content that was in their previous games and trying to sell it off as dlc. The content they’re cutting and later selling is technically new for those specific games.
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> Halo, on the other hand, is having content cut out, specifically the game modes/gametypes, and playlists then being reintroduced as “free dlc”. They’re even trying to pass off Forge maps as “free” maps. Those have always been free.
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> They throw the word “free” around as if the other option would be to pay for them. I don’t know about you, but I sure as hell wouldn’t pay a cent for any game mode that was in the previous games and I’m sure most other people wouldn’t either.
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> 343 aren’t doing us a favor with their “free dlc”, they’re doing us, and the franchise as a whole, a disservice.

What many people fail to recognize is the insidious nature of this current “free DLC” trend. For the past few years devs and publishers have been foregoing the development of additional content to add to already completed games, and have instead opted for cutting up games to sell in pieces to make some extra money. Destiny has been the most egregious example in recent years, as it’s been able to con players out of as much as $140 or more for a single game.

This has come about because these companies have been offering less in their base games and DLCs, while at the same time asking for more money. At a certain point the market says enough, and demand plummets. This has recently begun happening. players don’t want to pay $10, $20, or $30 for a couple maps, missions, or a few pieces of cosmetic crap. Normally the prices for this stuff should have started going down, but game companies have found another tactic to exploit: Microtransactions. They have realized that microtransactions can earn them more money than a single purchase DLC. On top of that, they can give away the content that was cut out and intended for DLC and make themselves look like heroes. Even worse, is that they have realized all they need do is promise that there will be additional content, and people will happily throw money at their microtransactions. Devs and publishers can then produce a hollow apology later when it becomes clear that they can’t deliver on any of their promises.

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> Picture this. You are at work. Your boss has asked you to do something. Being the lazy people we are you half -Yoink- it.

This is already sounding like a good description of 343 :slight_smile:

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> When your boss inspects your work and notices it’s not done properly he would probably scold you and be disappointed; however, you go back and without him telling you to, you fix it. He looks at you and says, “You should have don’t it right the first time” and walks away. No thank you, no appreciation that you did the job.

But you just said you didn’t do the job. That’s why you had to re-do it. Why would you want appreciation for doing the wrong thing? It’s like having to ask your kid to clean their room, but you have to ask them 10 times. It wouldn’t make sense to then say, “thank you for cleaning your room the first time I asked.” Yes you could thank them for cleaning it finally, but what if they cleaned it in a way you didn’t approve of. Like they just threw their dirty clothes under the bed and stuffed their toys in the closet, unorganized. Would you then thank them for doing it half-heartedly?

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> Then your boss asks you to do another task. You do it to the best of your ability. But do to time constraints you can’t polish it off the way you wanted. Your boss looks at your work and says “should have been done better” and walks away. Over the next week you are working on improving the product, and every day you give your boss an update on your progress. And every single day he says the same thing “It should have been in since you turned it in”.
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> Could you guys imagine trying your best to please your boss, and it’s just never enough. Not the slightest bit of appreciation.

I’m going to change the scenario of your analogy just a bit so you can see it from my perspective:

Your boss has asked you to create a powerpoint presentation for him to discuss in an important meeting he has in a week. For one reason or another, when that day comes you aren’t able to get it done. You had plenty of time to work on it, but all you have is the first couple slides of the presentation. So when your boss is presenting and gets to that point of the presentation, he sees a bunch of blank slides and asks, “Where’s the rest of the content?” And you say “I wasn’t able to get it done, but it’s okay because I’ll email everyone the slides as I get them done at some later date.” Eventually you quickly draw up something and mass email each slide one by one to the entire office each month to show that you got another one done. However, this is useless to your boss now. The meeting ended a long time ago, the people he was pitching to have moved on and most of the people in the office don’t even care at this point. But you just think they’re ungrateful and continue working on your presentation, thinking everyone owes you a thank you for giving them free insight.

Could you imagine if that was a real world scenario? You’d have been fired from the second you didn’t have the product complete on time. You wouldn’t have even had a chance to deliver late content. I think that’s the point that a lot of you apologists miss. No matter what content gets released, the point when it was necessary, or even desirable, has passed.

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> I’m not saying you guys have to say 343 is the best devs out there, and I’m not saying you have to forget about their mistakes. Just when someone does do something right, you thank them and show appreciation. You can’t hold everything they did wrong against them every time they did do something correctly, if you do, you will never see how often they do succeed.

Key words, when someone does do something right.

Just because you interpret something as “right” does not mean everyone else does too. Speaking for myself, I don’t hold any of their previous mistakes over their current mistakes. When Halo was released with too few playlists, I was mad that there were too few playlists. When BTB was released I was mad that it was put on the backburner and had a lineup of underdeveloped maps. The point is, you’re considering the fact that if they do something, it’s correct, when to some people, it’s not.

In some cases, just the fact that it was late, is enough to render it useless (like the presentation example I shared). Some people don’t see the effects of releasing something bad or shallow or empty or whatever until the aftermath. But we have plenty of examples with Halo 4 and MCC right in front of us. I’m not holding that over 343’s head, I’m using history to explain what they’re still doing wrong in Halo 5, but I’m only referring to the problems in Halo 5, nothing else.

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> Am I going to complain that Halo 5 is the worst Halo even and that 343 sucks every time they update the game to make it better? No, that’s stupid.

Now you’re just making generalizations. Because there are a few trolls in a forum you can’t assume everyone else thinks like that. Like you said, that’s stupid. I could use the same generalization of troll fanboys that (opposite) “boast that Halo 5 is the best halo ever and that 343 is the best every time they update the game no matter what it is!”

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> Edit: Yes, feel free to say that it should have been here at launch, but thank them for releasing it. They really didn’t have to at this point. We’ve already lost most of the infection community so now it would be getting them back.

Again, why should we thank someone for doing something the wrong way? And you might think twice about your comment about them not having to. They’re just about in desperation mode right now. Removing the region lock, all these shifty changes are all signs of the game’s population going down and 343 going into emergency mode like they did with Halo 4.

If they didn’t at least portray themselves to be listening to the community do you think that would go over well? And as I’ve repeated over and over, adding infection doesn’t mean you will get the infection community back. There are too many changes and introductions that people didn’t ask for. They are trying to attain a new infection community, disregarding the old one, and that is yet another flaw of 343’s strategy imo.

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> There are a ton of people that enjoy Halo 5. Most probably agree that these should have been in since launch. But there are also a ton of unappreciative players that feel entitled to all these features being in since launch. And you guys suck the soul out of these forums.

Again, I could say the opposite. There are a ton of people that don’t enjoy Halo 5. Look at the customer reviews from any store.

I guess I fall into your description of unappreciative players that feel entitled to these features being in since launch because I don’t appreciate what they’ve given us. Just because they put a familiar name on it, doesn’t mean it’s what I asked for. So why should I be forced to appreciate something when I’m not appreciating it?

And if these type of people “suck the soul out of these forums” then what does that tell you about the remaining community? Surely most people who did not like Halo for the past 6 months have moved on by now.

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Bottom line: 343 made it crystal clear what WOULD be included at launch. People still bought the game and complain that it wasn’t included at launch. Really? It’s absurd to act that way. 343 did exactly what they told us they would–stop complaining about it.

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> Halo 2 had EVERYTHING halo 1 had and more. Halo 3 had everything halo 2 had and new stuff. Halo 4 had everything halo 3 had…even reach had everything and more new stuff. Notice the trend here? Halo 5 has LESS game modes than halo 2 that came out in 2004 and halo 3 that came out in 2007… So halo 5 had jack for gametypes and many other staples missing. Sorry that I have standards? And I don’t just blindly love 343 when they punched me in the face over and over again. I’m not going to forget nor forgive. Also microtransactions… And remixes counted as full fledged new maps… I don’t. A new map is a new layout new theme and not 90% based on a existing map. Unless it’s lockout or guardian. Those maps as is we’re perfect and don’t need any changes. And after the mcc being broken for a long time… They sweep it under the rug don’t mention it at all in updates… How should I feel happy? Content? I feel robbed.

I wouldn’t say Halo 4 had everything Halo 3/Reach had cause it just didn’t. But I get your point.

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> The thing is 343 was pretty clear on what would be in the game at launch and other stuff would be added in monthly updates… no one forced you to buy the game at launch. You could have waited till the game had what you wanted in it. As far as “microtransactions” H5 has the best system in place out of most games. No game changing content is behind a pay wall and every one gets the updates regardless whether they bought req packs or not. Sure there should have been more stuff unlockable by game play. But the only way to stop this trend of adding later is not to buy the game at launch. Look at Hitman launching with like one or two missions I read somewhere and more missions will be added later… yoink that I say… not worth buying… but in H5 case I was satisfied with what the game had at launch and each update is making it better and giving me something to look forward to as I play. I hated the way you maxed out H4 in a few months flat. H5 has had way better longevity. Had a csr rank, xp rank, commendations, reqs, and cosmetics. I just wish there was more camp type achievements. The problem is most gamers just assume and don’t read so when they don’t get what they assumed they get ticked… not to mention the impatience in most gamers now a days… want it all now and for free if possible any thing else is unacceptable and will result in instant raging on the internet… each update announcement then the forums are flooded with its not good enough and they haven’t even received the content yet!!

No game changing content? Take someone who is new to the game and put their unlocks against some of the people that play this game nonstop and are lvl 149. I’m pretty sure the lvl 149 playing a game of WZ will enjoy it a lot better thanks to the “game changing content”

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> The only way to stop this trend of adding later is not to buy the game at launch. Look at Hitman launching with like one or two missions I read somewhere and more missions will be added later… yoink that I say… not worth buying… but in H5 case I was satisfied with what the game had at launch and each update is making it better and giving me something to look forward to as I play. I hated the way you maxed out H4 in a few months flat. H5 has had way better longevity. Had a csr rank, xp rank, commendations, reqs, and cosmetics.

I didn’t max out H4 in a few months lol because that’s not how I play Halo. Halo has never been about “maxing out” or achievement hunters or grinding until 343 got their hands on it. You think H5 has good longevity because you get a few new achievements to get each month? Halos of old had good longevity simply because people wanted and loved the gameplay, not a little to-do list.

Halo 5’s population is already dying so I don’t know how you can say it has good longevity. It’s redundant, shallow and incomplete.

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> Like I said no one forced you to buy the game at launch. They were clear on what would be in the game. Don’t buy it if it doesn’t have what you want it’s that simple.

That’s where you’re wrong. It means more to us than just being “that simple” to let something go that once had meaning.

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Just want to say that VVonderboy is killing it in this thread. Couldn’t be more on point in almost every way and doing it in a respectful manner. Kudos

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> Just want to say that VVonderboy is killing it in this thread. Couldn’t be more on point in almost every way and doing it in a respectful manner. Kudos

Too right mate.

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> > Just want to say that VVonderboy is killing it in this thread. Couldn’t be more on point in almost every way and doing it in a respectful manner. Kudos
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> Too right mate.

Haha thanks guys.

Just my opinions of course, but I do put a lot of time into them.

I made a 4.5 hour review of the beta and a similar one is coming for H5 I fear…

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I love players who care about the community. The ones who don’t roll over and show their stomachs in the face of badness in general. In this case it’s 343 not realeasing content when they should have.

Don’t get me wrong, Halo 5 will be a great game after 343 realeases all content. Oh, and that player I was talking about? VVONDERBOY for president 2016.

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> Just want to say that VVonderboy is killing it in this thread. Couldn’t be more on point in almost every way and doing it in a respectful manner. Kudos

Scrolls back a page.
Reads his posts.

Dude, -Yoinking!- understatement of the century right there.

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> I love players who care about the community. The ones who don’t roll over and show their stomachs in the face of badness in general. In this case it’s 343 not realeasing content when they should have.
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> Don’t get me wrong, Halo 5 will be a great game after 343 realeases all content. Oh, and that player I was talking about? VVONDERBOY for president 2016.

That’s how I see it too. It’s one thing to like Halo 5, nobody is saying you can’t. But the game isn’t perfect and it’s taken 7 months to get to where it is today and yet there are still problems. Can you imagine what Halo 5 would look like if the people who say they love the game had free reign? Would we have gotten new (ie old) gametypes back? Would we have gotten a refined color palette? Would we have gotten anything that has made the game better piece by piece? Given how much people who “complained” about things like Infection, Grifball, UI changes and so were flamed and called ungrateful I have my doubts. Like it or not, the people who have complained at this point seem to show more concern for the longevity of the game than the people who seemingly love it.

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> > I love players who care about the community. The ones who don’t roll over and show their stomachs in the face of badness in general. In this case it’s 343 not realeasing content when they should have.
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> > Don’t get me wrong, Halo 5 will be a great game after 343 realeases all content. Oh, and that player I was talking about? VVONDERBOY for president 2016.
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> That’s how I see it too. It’s one thing to like Halo 5, nobody is saying you can’t. But the game isn’t perfect and it’s taken 7 months to get to where it is today and yet there are still problems. Can you imagine what Halo 5 would look like if the people who say they love the game had free reign? Would we have gotten new (ie old) gametypes back? Would we have gotten a refined color palette? Would we have gotten anything that has made the game better piece by piece? Given how much people who “complained” about things like Infection, Grifball, UI changes and so were flamed and called ungrateful I have my doubts. Like it or not, the people who have complained at this point seem to show more concern for the longevity of the game than the people who seemingly love it.

Dr. Halsey, you are awesome. My thoughts exactly. If people had free reign over this game it would remind me of Duke nuke em. Over 12 years to make and still flopped.