> 2533274806967348;5:
> No, halo 5 multiplayer has ads, sprint, and to much emphasis on 4v4 and warzone. I would like it to go back to basic gameplay with alot of gametypes and maps for said gametype like highground for 1 flag. (I really hope they bring back 1 flag)
^ This.
I REALLY want 1 Flag CTF back. Why they took it out is beyond me.
> 2533274930223782;33:
> > 2533274876631466;4:
> > People can complain about how Halo 5’s multiplayer “wasn’t classic enough,” but it did retain the most steady population since Halo 3 (According to Bravo). One could argue that the stream of content updates had a role in that, but it’s important to recognize that new content won’t make players come back if the gameplay isn’t good.
>
> “The most steady population” you’re joking right? H5 was probably hot stuff for like a week. And people dropped off when they realized the -Yoink- campaign and the lack of features. Forge and theater were no where to be found at launch. And when theater did show up it was broken as -Yoink-. Lack of big team battle and waiting 3 months for infection? Not to mention due to all of this h5 was the worst selling halo game in history. Now if you mean steady as in it’s contastntly Around the number 20 for most played game? Sure but it was no where NEAR halo 3.
Found the source. As of July 2016, it had the highest monthly population since Halo 3.
> 2533274798011936;28:
> > 2533274900668879;25:
> > - A lack of interest from the non-vocal majority as evidenced by declining sales and player retention of mobility shooters juxtaposed against the community response and financial success of franchises that have reverted to their core design philosophies (i.e. DOOM and CoD).
>
> Call of Duty has shown decreasing sales figures consistently since 2011. WWII did not reinvigorate the franchise; of the modern COD games (modern referring to 2007’s Modern Warfare onward) it’s the worst selling of them all at 12.19 million, even worse than Infinite Warfare. Even its xbox live ranking is just barely beating out Black Ops III by a few positions, which is almost unheard of for a sequel. And while Doom returned to classic campaign mechanics such as no reloads and carrying all weapons, it also injected entirely new mechanics to modernize the game, and the multiplayer wasn’t even a proper arena shooter. The game was fantastic from every conceivable design angle; it wasn’t the classic mechanics alone that bought it praise.
>
>
>
> > 2533274900668879;25:
> > - The gradual decline in recurring players since Reach, the first to implement Sprint, predictably followed by a sharp spike with Halo 4 which had the steepest population drop of any Halo game to date, only marginally recovering with Halo 5.
>
> You cannot possibly reduce the franchise’s player retention down to a single mechanic, not when player retention for a AAA game is less to do with the mechanics and more to do with marketability. If people were running away from Halo because of sprint, they wouldn’t have flocked to Call of Duty and now games like PUBG and Fortnite. But these games were the new “in” at the time; Halo plateau’d, just as Quake did. Quake hasn’t changed any of its fundamental mechanics in 20 years, but that franchise has waned into niche-hood all the same, shedding even veteran fans due to any number of reasons. The point is, Halo peaked at a time when it had no competition to speak of. As the market became more crowded, people moved on to other, more immediately rewarding experiences.
I have to disagree about the COD statement. COD ww2 is doing and has done much better the last quite a few COD games. Here just one article, I could put up many Articles. Here is one quote for it that’s telling
> the game sold $500M worth of copies in its first three days, which was double what Infinite Warfare sold over the same period. Later, it was reported that COD: WWII was besting Infinite Warfare sales by as much as 65%.
As I said, I could put up many articles that say the game has done very well. Just Google it for yourself and a lot of those sales numbers don’t include digital either. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Activision went back to boots on the ground aka, no Advanced movement and the newest COD game has sold and been a lot more popular than the last x amount of cod games AND the fact that the newest COD game is also boots on the ground is telling. Is it only because the advanced movement system? no, I don’t think so but I think it has a lot to do with it. If you look at all the top selling Cod games, all but one don’t have advanced movement. And I think that game only sold a lot because it was the first CoD game to have advanced movement so people wanted to check it out naturally.
I don’t disagree sprint wasn’t the only reason for Halos decline but I do think it’s a big part of it. You said
> If people were running away from Halo because of sprint, they wouldn’t have flocked to Call of Duty and now games like PUBG and Fortnite.
But you have to understand that Halo played a lot differently once sprint came in. So I would argue that yes, a good chunk of players left Halo because of sprint. It wasn’t that they hated the sprint mechanic in general it’s because the Halo they knew didn’t remotely exist anymore because sprint changed how Halo played and felt so much. It would just be like if Cod or BF removed sprint…how many players do you think would leave those series if that happen? I would bet a lot because the game doesn’t feel or play like how all the other ones did. People expect certain things when they’re buying a sequel to a game and the problem with Halo reach was the game started feeling a lot different and it just went down from there. If Halo started with the sprint animation in the game to start with, it would have been totally different but it didn’t.
I don’t hate Halo 5 or it’s game mechanics, far from it but there are a lot of aspects from the game that I don’t like (which is par) but there’s a lot of things that just don’t feel like Halo at all. For example ADS zooming… Why the hell would you get rid of a system that was unique and made Halo stand out (which as you say Halo is one of the only Arena FPS games out there) and could be easily updated I might add… Just to copy a system that is in pretty much every FPS out there??? Makes zero sense!!! Not only that, according to hardcore lore people (which I don’t claim to be one) it breaks lore too! … so that’s even stupider to put that in.
Well that’s your opinion that Warframe is better than Destiny but it’s obvious that the majority don’t think so because if it was, people would be playing it more than Destiny. It’s free after all. Just like more people seem to like fortnite then PUBG. One game is free one is not. Same deal but opposite affect. I don’t disagree marketing helps but it’s not like I’m seeing tons of fortnite commercials or anything like this out there.
To say Halo will never be as popular or close to it as in early days I think is a poor statement. Never is a long time bro… Just look at Doom. Pretty much after Doom 2, there hasn’t been a good Doom game. It took a long time, but they finally got one back. It won multiple Awards and sold incredibly well. The single player is praised by many fans even hardcore ones. I consider myself to be a pretty big Doom fan as I was there when the game came out in 93. (I’m an older gamer lol)The multiplayer wasn’t as good frankly. A lot of people didn’t like it because a lack of content at launch (sound familar) and the style wasn’t an Arena shooter really and people that like Doom a lot that’s what they want.
I would love to see 343 do a Halo game that has no sprint animation, classic zoom style but updated, a form of clamber, thrusters and dual wielding, Interactive environments on multiplayer maps like H2A and Equipment back. I think that would be a good mix of old and new things and if done right I think is a happy medium between old and new fans. This way 343I can then at least say "we made a game without the sprint animation and it didn’t do that great or it did even better then we thought or it did amazing and that’s why we’re keeping it for future games now. It would help people on both sides of the argument of sprint I would say and I wish they would do.
You could obviously do a lot of things with thrusters too. You can tie them into abilities like ground pound if you want it back. You could have maybe a form of a double jump with them, and so on. I’m not saying I want those things, I’m just suggesting they could definitely experiment with a lot of things with thrusters.
Also, the fact that Halo 5 is still around 18 to 23 in the most played games on Xbox isn’t bad I agree considering the age of the game but it dropped out of the top 5-10 super fast which wasn’t great. The fact that Halo is supposed to be the face of xbox and it’s that far down the list is telling in my opinion and tells me something needs to change.
> 2533274798011936;28:
> Halo is currently the only major arena FPS on the console market. No need to change that for Halo Infinite, and so it wouldn’t be occupying a crowded market. On the contrary, the arena shooter as a concept is a dying breed, which may be more telling about Halo’s current status than anything specific to this franchise.
By ‘lack of originality’, I was referring to Halo 5’s incorporation of popular-at-the-time trends like mobility mechanics and genre standards like ADS, stepping further away from Halo’s ‘niche’ and closer towards other sci-fi shooters on the market. I suppose it depends on your own definition of an Arena shooter; perhaps for some even starts is enough to differentiate the game, for others like me it isn’t.
> Call of Duty has shown decreasing sales figures consistently since 2011. WWII did not reinvigorate the franchise; of the modern COD games (modern referring to 2007’s Modern Warfare onward) it’s the worst selling of them all at 12.19 million, even worse than Infinite Warfare. Even its xbox live ranking is just barely beating out Black Ops III by a few positions, which is almost unheard of for a sequel. And while Doom returned to classic campaign mechanics such as no reloads and carrying all weapons, it also injected entirely new mechanics to modernize the game, and the multiplayer wasn’t even a proper arena shooter. The game was fantastic from every conceivable design angle; it wasn’t the classic mechanics alone that bought it praise.
I should have elaborated, I use DOOM as the positive and CoD as the negative examples. Its good to note because it shows that going back to your roots is not a guaranteed success, and that you still need to construct a compelling game on those core pillars if you want your game resonate with people.
In both cases, I mentioned returning to their ‘core design philosophies’, not a set of specific mechanics. In DOOM’s case, the new mechanics like vertical aiming, clamber and double jump all contribute to the fast paced high intensity gameplay that is at the core of the game, whereas Sprint, for example, would not work in DOOM because stop / start gameplay conflicts with DOOM’s focus on constant movement during combat, just as Sprint doesn’t work in Halo because it allows players to escape encounters and creates issues like Sprint-Melee.
> You cannot possibly reduce the franchise’s player retention down to a single mechanic, not when player retention for a AAA game is less to do with the mechanics and more to do with marketability.
You’re correct, and I’m not attributing it to a single mechanic, rather a change in design philosophy that began with Halo Reach. I.e. changing gameplay through player-based abilities rather than elements added to the sandbox. As for player retention, I absolutely think gameplay is the key factor in retaining players over a long period of time.
Marketability factors into the number of initial sales for sure, but the community takes the reigns from the first week or so onwards. Halo 4 has the second highest sales in the series, yet it nosedived within the first month or so, and to your example, Destiny 2 attracted far more players than Warframe thanks to its marketing, but Warframe’s community remains dedicated and steadfast even after 5 years while Destiny 2 has began to dwindle already and we’re not even a year in.
The argument that Halo 3 had no competition is bunk. I’d go into it myself but I don’t think I have the room, so you can look to this video for elaboration.
> Halo will never win back the numbers from its glory days without something that can catch the attention of the masses, and a massive overhaul like that is something this community doesn’t want–and frankly, one this franchise doesn’t really need, no more than Halo needs to return to its glory day numbers
Halo 4, considered by many to be the worst in the series, has the second highest sales; more than Halo Reach, Bungie’s swansong. The initial investment in Halo 4 was an increase over Reach because many believed that with Chief would return the classic gameplay, abandoning the controversial armor abilities and loadout system. The fact that Halo 4 doubled down led to the aforementioned population nosedive, while Halo 5 retained a more consistent playerbase thanks partially to even starts, a move that brought the franchise closer to the trilogy format, if only slightly.
Lastly, your community point negates the massive reaction to the recent PC incident, the swathe of classic based fan games currently in production, and the recurring opinions of a majority of Halo content creators, and while I agree that the franchise numbers needn’t surpass Halo 3, they ought to be far better than they are considering Halo is Microsoft’s flagship franchise.
> 2533274989469309;17:
> > 2533274875211743;2:
> > I’ve been a Halo player from the start (2001) so I (as expected) prefer classic style, but I thought Halo 5 MP was still great. It felt pretty different from classic Halo sure, but it was fun. If Infinite is like that, so be it imo. Plus, as unpopular as it sounds to hardcore fans, I don’t think classic style appeals to modern gamers as much. For the longevity of the game it (somewhat unfortunately) does have to adapt to appease newer generation of players.
> >
> > I don’t mind if I’m wrong about this (would prefer it in fact) so if anyone disagrees please correct me. 
>
> What’s with a lot of people saying they’ve been playing Halo since Combat Evolved? Is it to look impressive or something? Because I refuse to believe that people been playing since the very first Halo, maybe 2004 or 2007 but can’t be 2001
LOL!! OMG, I’m sorry, are you honestly serious here? There are a lot of people who have played since CE and still are. I’m one of those people actually. I used to have LAN parties at my house with Halo 1,2 and 3. Had a TV for every person there. We even have the odd LAN party with Halo 4 (as much as we didn’t like Halo 4 overalll) and we really hope that we can do it again in Halo 6 because nothing beats LAN with friends, nothing! The fact that something like that wasn’t in 5 made a lot of my friends not even buy Xbox. I had a lot of friends that owned Xbox or 360 just for Halo, but I digress here. Should I take a picture of all my halo stuff and systems I have? do I need to tell you my date of birth and age? LoL come on man. It’s really not that hard to believe. I got Halo CE the first month it was out. I’ve been gaming since handhelds, Atari and intellivision. My first system was Sega Master System (god I miss Sega…) Yup, Sega used to make hardware 
There are lots of people who have been around/played since CE bud. I don’t know why that’s so hard to believe, but thanks for the laugh though man 
lol
> 2533274820483063;40:
> Anyone who says that the Spartan abilities dont add a layer of depth has not played enough of halo 5.
They did, but it was very small, especially considering the number of abilities that were added. Then there’s of course the layer of depth that it removed, which ends up making the grand total effect negative.
> 2533274820483063;40:
> The Spartan abilities only made the skill gap bigger.
No, they didn’t. As said above, this is not to say there is nothing to learn in Spartan Abilities. There certainly is, and pretending all other things are equal, I would undoubtedly lose to the professionals. However, to consider the total effect of Spartan Abilities, you have to take into account their negative effects. Take for example Thruster Pack, and its use in encounters. The common defense of it is that if you’re good enough, you can use it to throw off the opponent’s aim. However, what this does not take into account is that before Thruster Pack, there was another way of throwing off the opponent’s aim: strafing. And due to the nature of the ability, which gives a very rapid boost, it’s much easier to learn good timing of Thruster Pack, than it is to learn an effective strafe without Thruster Pack.
Then there are of course abilities like Clamber that add no depth, but do take some away. The only purpose, and the only effect, of Clamber is to make jumps easier. This already takes away depth from movement, since one has to be less concerned with the timing and accuracy of jumps. However, it has also had the effect that map have been designed around Clamber, which means that many ledges cannot be jumped without Clambering. This means that the use of elevation changes in combat is ineffective, since you have to use Clamber, and you can’t shoot during the animation.
Again, regarding the positives, there are of course some jumps that the unique physics of Thruster Pack and Stabilizer enable, not to mention these combo jumps. However, situations where these are useful are quite rare in actual gameplay, and when you take into account the amount of freedom that the combo jumps especially give to the player, you see that rather than adding something to trick jumping, Spartan Abilities have just moved upwards and shrunk the range of difficult jumps. You really have to look at all the ways in which Spartan Abilities affect gameplay, not just the positives, not just the negatives, and not just the obvious stuff.
Going beyond whether the net effect of Spartan Abilities is positive or negative, what should be extremely disconcerting is that if you take any one Spartan Ability, and try to think what it would add if it was the only ability, for all Spartan Abilities you’ll find either absolutely nothing (Clamber), barely anything (Slide, Stabilizer, Ground Pound), or a little bit (Thruster Pack). This is a sign of poorly fleshed out mechanics that add a lot more complexity than depth. A good mechanic is one for which you find many interesting uses, one which just by itself adds a rich layer of depth to the game. For Spartan Abilities, this is not the case. They rely entirely on strength in numbers.
> 2533274820483063;40:
> Also Sprint is not a problem playing halo 5. You cannot just Sprint away in the middle of a fight. Trying to Sprint while being shot at cancels your Sprint. If someone sprints there way into a bad position then they are done for.
On the other hand, what does sprint add to gameplay? It’s strictly in the category of “barely anything”. It adds so little that the amount is still negated by the minimal amount by which it makes escaping from a bad position easier. This is, of course, not even mentioning the fact that since it requires players to put their weapons down while in transit, a player who is sprinting can’t function as an effective part of the game. This in turn means that players are spending less time applying their skills.and executing their strategies.
> 2533274820483063;40:
> Many people didn’t really try to master the Spartan abilities and judge it off that. I’m not saying the classic movement is bad, to me it’s just a different way to do the same things. What I mean is that the movements mechanics are not what make halo a halo game.
I’m sure many people did try mastering Spartan Abilities, and still think they are bad. I’ve personally tried to understand them to best of my ability in hopes of finding redeeming value in them. And while that quest has been partially successful, and I’ve gained more respect towards some of the abilities (with the greatest surprise being Stabilizer), I still hold the opinion that the net effect they have is negative, and they add far too much complexity for whatever depth they have.
Been a halo gamer since the beginning, and honestly when it comes to modern vs classic halo, they both honestly work. Sure halo 2 an 3(to lesser extend reach) seemed more different than the 4 and 5 mm, but they all felt pretty good. (Or in 4s case it felt betterafter the weapon tuning)
For mm, I wouldn’t mind actually a classic and a modern playlist, sort of how reach had TU(title update) and a vanilla playlist. This way we can have both. Sometimes I really just want to f around and I’ll make use of all the Spartan abilities. Others I just want to play, and while naturally don’t use some of the Spartan abilities, I like having the ability to use them. Like in ranked slayer I mostly use just thruster packs and clamber. I rarely sprint. Outside that I use everything.
> 2533274815533909;45:
> > 2533274989469309;17:
> > > 2533274875211743;2:
> > > I’ve been a Halo player from the start (2001) so I (as expected) prefer classic style, but I thought Halo 5 MP was still great. It felt pretty different from classic Halo sure, but it was fun. If Infinite is like that, so be it imo. Plus, as unpopular as it sounds to hardcore fans, I don’t think classic style appeals to modern gamers as much. For the longevity of the game it (somewhat unfortunately) does have to adapt to appease newer generation of players.
> > >
> > > I don’t mind if I’m wrong about this (would prefer it in fact) so if anyone disagrees please correct me.
> >
> > What’s with a lot of people saying they’ve been playing Halo since Combat Evolved? Is it to look impressive or something? Because I refuse to believe that people been playing since the very first Halo, maybe 2004 or 2007 but can’t be 2001
>
> LOL!! OMG, I’m sorry, are you honestly serious here? There are a lot of people who have played since CE and still are. I’m one of those people actually. I used to have LAN parties at my house with with Halo 1,2 and 3. How to TV for every person here. We even have the odd LAN party with Halo 4 (as much as we didn’t like it Halo 4 overalll) and we really hope that we can do it again in Halo 6 because nothing beat LAN with friends, nothing! The fact of something like that wasn’t in five made for my friends not even buy Xbox. Should I had a lot of friends that owned Xbox or 360 Just for Halo, but I digress here. Should I take a picture of all my halo stuff and systems I have, do I need to tell you my date of birth and age? LoL come on man. It’s really not that hard to believe. I got Halo CE the first month it was out. I’ve been gaming since handhelds, Atari and intellivision. My first system was Sega Master System (god I miss Sega…) Yup, Sega used to make hardware
>
> There are lots of people who have been around/played since CE bud. I don’t know why that’s so hard to believe, but thanks for the laugh though man lol
I wish I was old enough to remember those days. I jumped in at halo 2 (I’m turning 20 in September)
> 2533274900668879;44:
> > 2533274798011936;28:
> > Halo is currently the only major arena FPS on the console market. No need to change that for Halo Infinite, and so it wouldn’t be occupying a crowded market. On the contrary, the arena shooter as a concept is a dying breed, which may be more telling about Halo’s current status than anything specific to this franchise.
>
> By ‘lack of originality’, I was referring to Halo 5’s incorporation of popular-at-the-time trends like mobility mechanics and genre standards like ADS, stepping further away from Halo’s ‘niche’ and closer towards other sci-fi shooters on the market. I suppose it depends on your own definition of an Arena shooter; perhaps for some even starts is enough to differentiate the game, for others like me it isn’t.
>
>
> > Call of Duty has shown decreasing sales figures consistently since 2011. WWII did not reinvigorate the franchise; of the modern COD games (modern referring to 2007’s Modern Warfare onward) it’s the worst selling of them all at 12.19 million, even worse than Infinite Warfare. Even its xbox live ranking is just barely beating out Black Ops III by a few positions, which is almost unheard of for a sequel. And while Doom returned to classic campaign mechanics such as no reloads and carrying all weapons, it also injected entirely new mechanics to modernize the game, and the multiplayer wasn’t even a proper arena shooter. The game was fantastic from every conceivable design angle; it wasn’t the classic mechanics alone that bought it praise.
>
> I should have elaborated, I use DOOM as the positive and CoD as the negative examples. Its good to note because it shows that going back to your roots is not a guaranteed success, and that you still need to construct a compelling game on those core pillars if you want your game resonate with people.
> In both cases, I mentioned returning to their ‘core design philosophies’, not a set of specific mechanics. In DOOM’s case, the new mechanics like vertical aiming, clamber and double jump all contribute to the fast paced high intensity gameplay that is at the core of the game, whereas Sprint, for example, would not work in DOOM because stop / start gameplay conflicts with DOOM’s focus on constant movement during combat, just as Sprint doesn’t work in Halo because it allows players to escape encounters and creates issues like Sprint-Melee.
>
>
> > You cannot possibly reduce the franchise’s player retention down to a single mechanic, not when player retention for a AAA game is less to do with the mechanics and more to do with marketability.
>
> You’re correct, and I’m not attributing it to a single mechanic, rather a change in design philosophy that began with Halo Reach. I.e. changing gameplay through player-based abilities rather than elements added to the sandbox. As for player retention, I absolutely think gameplay is the key factor in retaining players over a long period of time.
> Marketability factors into the number of initial sales for sure, but the community takes the reigns from the first week or so onwards. Halo 4 has the second highest sales in the series, yet it nosedived within the first month or so, and to your example, Destiny 2 attracted far more players than Warframe thanks to its marketing, but Warframe’s community remains dedicated and steadfast even after 5 years while Destiny 2 has began to dwindle already and we’re not even a year in.
>
> The argument that Halo 3 had no competition is bunk. I’d go into it myself but I don’t think I have the room, so you can look to this video for elaboration.
>
>
> > Halo will never win back the numbers from its glory days without something that can catch the attention of the masses, and a massive overhaul like that is something this community doesn’t want–and frankly, one this franchise doesn’t really need, no more than Halo needs to return to its glory day numbers
>
> Halo 4, considered by many to be the worst in the series, has the second highest sales; more than Halo Reach, Bungie’s swansong. The initial investment in Halo 4 was an increase over Reach because many, believed that with Chief would return the classic gameplay, abandoning the controversial armor abilities and loadout system. The fact that Halo 4 doubled down led to the aforementioned population nosedive, while Halo 5 retained a more consistent playerbase thanks partially to even starts, a move that brought the franchise closer to the trilogy format, if only slightly.
>
> Lastly, your community point negates the massive reaction to the recent PC incident, the swathe of classic based fan games currently in production, and the recurring opinions of a majority of Halo content creators, and while I agree that the franchise numbers needn’t surpass Halo 3, they ought to be far better than they are considering Halo is Microsoft’s flagship franchise.
Lmao that’s the same video I used lol
Start with h5, Remove gp, sprint, and add some new things that might work and for me to say take it out later down the line and I’ll like it.
New halo new toys.
> 2533274874690673;19:
> I would like to have a mp with an option of choosing the modern H5 mp and the classic H3 mp. I hope we can get all the Halo weapons we had in the previous games and the iconic armours, not so much variants.
Full Armor Customization with that to.
You ask me, whatever type of gameplay they’ll go with won’t make a difference. The game will still fail due to the community being the most picky group of fans I have witnessed as of late. Everyone will find at least one issue or complaint and then latch onto it as “holding the game back from being a TRUE classic experience” or “343 abandoning something they had going right with 5 and just blowing it yet again”. Do whatever gameplay style you want, Halo is done either way.
Definitely not, Keep a similar mechanic to thruster and a soft version of clamber and the rest can go back to classic!
> 2533274875211743;2:
> I’ve been a Halo player from the start (2001) so I (as expected) prefer classic style, but I thought Halo 5 MP was still great. It felt pretty different from classic Halo sure, but it was fun. If Infinite is like that, so be it imo. Plus, as unpopular as it sounds to hardcore fans, I don’t think classic style appeals to modern gamers as much. For the longevity of the game it (somewhat unfortunately) does have to adapt to appease newer generation of players.
>
> I don’t mind if I’m wrong about this (would prefer it in fact) so if anyone disagrees please correct me.
Its true and i personally think that there would be some back lash if it went back to the classic halo gameplay.
> 2533274930223782;48:
> > 2533274815533909;45:
> > > 2533274989469309;17:
> > > > 2533274875211743;2:
> > > > I’ve been a Halo player from the start (2001) so I (as expected) prefer classic style, but I thought Halo 5 MP was still great. It felt pretty different from classic Halo sure, but it was fun. If Infinite is like that, so be it imo. Plus, as unpopular as it sounds to hardcore fans, I don’t think classic style appeals to modern gamers as much. For the longevity of the game it (somewhat unfortunately) does have to adapt to appease newer generation of players.
> > > >
> > > > I don’t mind if I’m wrong about this (would prefer it in fact) so if anyone disagrees please correct me.
> > >
> > > What’s with a lot of people saying they’ve been playing Halo since Combat Evolved? Is it to look impressive or something? Because I refuse to believe that people been playing since the very first Halo, maybe 2004 or 2007 but can’t be 2001
> >
> > LOL!! OMG, I’m sorry, are you honestly serious here? There are a lot of people who have played since CE and still are. I’m one of those people actually. I used to have LAN parties at my house with with Halo 1,2 and 3. How to TV for every person here. We even have the odd LAN party with Halo 4 (as much as we didn’t like it Halo 4 overalll) and we really hope that we can do it again in Halo 6 because nothing beat LAN with friends, nothing! The fact of something like that wasn’t in five made for my friends not even buy Xbox. Should I had a lot of friends that owned Xbox or 360 Just for Halo, but I digress here. Should I take a picture of all my halo stuff and systems I have, do I need to tell you my date of birth and age? LoL come on man. It’s really not that hard to believe. I got Halo CE the first month it was out. I’ve been gaming since handhelds, Atari and intellivision. My first system was Sega Master System (god I miss Sega…) Yup, Sega used to make hardware
> >
> > There are lots of people who have been around/played since CE bud. I don’t know why that’s so hard to believe, but thanks for the laugh though man lol
>
> I wish I was old enough to remember those days. I jumped in at halo 2 (I’m turning 20 in September)
I’ll admit, I never had so much fun playing games then I did then when we played Halo CE, then 2 over LAN (3 and 4 we did too as I mentioned before) I got a router that was Xbox friendly, then the link up cable which was the official Xbox one (later I found out that I didn’t need to get that overpriced one lol) and then we bought cheap TVs at goodwill for everyone 20" those TVs were around my living room for 2 years or more lolol Then I got a switch because we had more players… It turned into a weekly thing for a while, but normally was a couple times a month. Had Halo parties… The whole bit! Was super fun 
hence why we all hope Halo 6 has that back because we would still try to do it maybe once a month. We’re older now so can’t get together as offen right… Getting older, Responsibilities and such… life lol but we’re all still Gamers and we all still play.
Looking back it’s neat because I’ve seen video games become so much more then what they were. Into a huge industry. It used to be you got made fun of for playing games. Now it’s cool and tons of girls play now too. When I was growing up, I was lucky if I met one girl that likes video games. So guys, you have it easy today lol I grew up in the wrong time lolol
So ya, it’s neat to see the rise of video games and how far they’ve come… but I’d love to be 20 again lol don’t worry you’ll see some cool stuff happened in the industry and with games that other people will say the same thing to you that they wish they were around then to see/experience all that
Playing with friends over the internet is great but nothing still beats having friends over, bringing all their gear and and having a LAN party. I hope you get to do it sometime if you haven’t
Yes, but with open willingness to be adjusted to whats liked in H6, we should be doing BIG changes. People are comfortable, lets go slow. Do small changes if we feel its necessary. Even Bungie did big jumps on how the games multiplayer felt, and I think this is a perfect opportunity to be slow. 343i did a great multiplayer imo.
Lets focus on making the multiplayer experience BETTER instead of reworking it.
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> Anyone who says that the Spartan abilities dont add a layer of depth has not played enough of halo 5.
The most inarguable example of ‘depth’ I’ve seen offered by Spartan Abilities in Halo 5 is during speedruns of the game where the goal is as little actual combat as possible, and in that sense they function altogether as a competent parkour system.
I’ve got a problem with what is perceived as depth in Halo these days, quite frankly. You got all these Spartan Abilities, all these possibilities, and they all have to be used a specific way in actual encounters. Maybe two specific ways in Thruster’s case. That is not depth.
A game with thousands of mechanics that must be used one single way, offers far less depth than a game with one mechanic that can be used thousands of ways.
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> Yes, but with open willingness to be adjusted to whats liked in H6, we should be doing BIG changes. People are comfortable, lets go slow. Do small changes if we feel its necessary. Even Bungie did big jumps on how the games multiplayer felt, and I think this is a perfect opportunity to be slow. 343i did a great multiplayer imo.
>
> Lets focus on making the multiplayer experience BETTER instead of reworking it.
In order to make it better, they need to go back to what made Halo in the first place. Classic gameplay like the first 3 titles, hell, even throw in Reach. Yes, they can make it bigger and badder and improve things even WITH classic gameplay, it’s not gonna hold the game back or create backlash (except maybe from COD fans and other generic shooter players.) If all of you want more MP like Halo 5, either keep playing Halo 5 or play literally any other shooter as they all have what you want as well. Leave Halo out of it for once and let it go back to being original and unique on the market. I hate how these days the FPS market is just same game, different name. I want GOOD Halo back, I don’t care what anybody says about Halo 4/5. I want 343 to give those games a big -Yoink- middle finger and embrace what made Halo the juggernaut it used to be. This is their ONLY chance to get it right. I hope this is just a dumb Coca-Cola hoax where they changed the original formula and brought out New Coke and everyone got pissed with like maybe 12 people saying they liked it, then brought back Classic Coke and everyone and they grandmothers rejoiced.
Please be a -Yoink- Coke situation, Halo. Go back to Classic.
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> > 2533274798011936;28:
> > With the increased tech skill of Halo 5’s movement, yes. I find it more satisfying to play than the ponderous nature of the previous games; I’ve been going back and forth between the MCC and Halo 5, and I find the old games to be enjoyable, but also boring by comparison. Simple can be good, but I don’t feel as engaged as I do in a round of Halo 5. Halo 5 is the closest the franchise has come to playing like Quake, given the various methods for increasing your movement speed, even if only in temporary bursts, and I enjoy the hell out of that kind of game. It provides more options for the player, more tactics to master and use in a battle.
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> > > 2533274900668879;25:
> > > I feel like it shouldn’t, for a number of reasons including but not limited to;
> > > - Homogenisation; in other words, a lack of originality in a crowded market.
> >
> > Halo is currently the only major arena FPS on the console market. No need to change that for Halo Infinite, and so it wouldn’t be occupying a crowded market. On the contrary, the arena shooter as a concept is a dying breed, which may be more telling about Halo’s current status than anything specific to this franchise.
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> > > 2533274900668879;25:
> > > - A lack of interest from the non-vocal majority as evidenced by declining sales and player retention of mobility shooters juxtaposed against the community response and financial success of franchises that have reverted to their core design philosophies (i.e. DOOM and CoD).
> >
> > Call of Duty has shown decreasing sales figures consistently since 2011. WWII did not reinvigorate the franchise; of the modern COD games (modern referring to 2007’s Modern Warfare onward) it’s the worst selling of them all at 12.19 million, even worse than Infinite Warfare. Even its xbox live ranking is just barely beating out Black Ops III by a few positions, which is almost unheard of for a sequel. And while Doom returned to classic campaign mechanics such as no reloads and carrying all weapons, it also injected entirely new mechanics to modernize the game, and the multiplayer wasn’t even a proper arena shooter. The game was fantastic from every conceivable design angle; it wasn’t the classic mechanics alone that bought it praise.
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> >
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> > > 2533274900668879;25:
> > > - The gradual decline in recurring players since Reach, the first to implement Sprint, predictably followed by a sharp spike with Halo 4 which had the steepest population drop of any Halo game to date, only marginally recovering with Halo 5.
> >
> > You cannot possibly reduce the franchise’s player retention down to a single mechanic, not when player retention for a AAA game is less to do with the mechanics and more to do with marketability. If people were running away from Halo because of sprint, they wouldn’t have flocked to Call of Duty and now games like PUBG and Fortnite. But these games were the new “in” at the time; Halo plateau’d, just as Quake did. Quake hasn’t changed any of its fundamental mechanics in 20 years, but that franchise has waned into niche-hood all the same, shedding even veteran fans due to any number of reasons. Like Halo, Quake was once the go-to shooter for multiplayer. Then it was Halo, and the console market took off. Then it was Call of Duty, etc. etc. The point is, Halo peaked at a time when it had no competition to speak of. Everyone played Halo because there was nothing else to play that was well known and easy to get into. Everyone’s friends played Halo so they played Halo too. As the market became more crowded, people moved on to other, more immediately rewarding experiences.
> >
> > As a rule of thumb, people will flock to the more rewarding, casual experience. It might come as a shock, but in 2007, Halo was that game. But as I said earlier, arena shooters in general are a dying breed of game. They are punishing when gamers want to be rewarded. So for a 3 year old arena shooter in 2018, one that’s exclusive to the least popular console of the generation, Halo 5 is doing well, just behind Battlefield 1 in Xbox Live ranking. All of the shooters ahead of halo 5 have something in common: none of them are arena shooters. They’re all either hero or tactical twitch shooters. The only other arena shooter on the list is Gears of War 4, and that sits far lower on the list than Halo, despite that game also staying rigorously true to its classic mechanics.
> >
> > Marketability is what dominates player retention; Warframe provides the objectively better gaming experience over Destiny 2, but Destiny 2 trounces Warframe in player numbers despite Warframe also being completely free (as an aside, Halo 5 is beating Warframe as well). Halo will never win back the numbers from its glory days without something that can catch the attention of the masses, and a massive overhaul like that is something this community doesn’t want–and frankly, one this franchise doesn’t really need, no more than Halo needs to return to its glory day numbers. The reaction to Infinite is fantastic, but I feel Halo is at a comfortable place with its gameplay; if it becomes the next big thing all over again, sprint will have very little to do with it either way.
>
> The reason cod WWII died out is because of -Yoink- streaks and snipers not being balanced. On top of that the infinite warfare trailer had a -Yoink- ton of dislikes and sledgehammer saw that so the time had to scrap advanced warfare 2 and make COD WWII. Sprint isn’t the reason halo is the way it is now? Yeah I agree it’s a collection of things. Adding sprint changed up the gameplay and halo kept missing things that halo should have day 1. H5 infection and big team battle were gone. Forge and theater mode were gone. H5 had a 6 month wait time for forge. And when h5 DID get theater it was broken as all -Yoink-. Also h4 added loadouts and gave EVERYONE sprint and that game is known for how quick the population died. It’s not just sprint no. But it’s PART of the reason. Lastly, halo had no competition? Are you -Yoinking!- kidding me? So in you’re mind no game from 2006-2009 was good enough to give halo competition? Grand theft auto 4 and gears of war weren’t good enough? Battlefield bad company wasn’t good enough? I can’t believe people are using that arguement ಠ_ಠ I even have a video lined up and ready to go to destroy that argument "Halo was only REALLY POPULAR Because it had No Competition" is a BS Argument - YouTube
No. Halo 3 did not have comparable competition. It rather famously broke the sales record for biggest entertainment launch in history, by taking in 170 million dollars on Day 1 and moving 8.1 million copies by that January. By contrast, gears of war—a game roughly a year older than halo 3–had sold only 6+ million copies by the time Gears 3 came out, with gears 2 only marginally better. Bad company 2 only broke 12million sales across ALL PLATFORMS 2 years afrer release, only selling in the 3millions on the 360. And while gta 4 was a gargantuan success—beating halo 3’s record for 24 hour sales—it is also a completely different genre of game for a different market.
You might as well be saying smash brothers was competing with halo. People do play multiple games to scratch multiple itches, and for FPS, halo had no meaningful competition until the Cod craze. Sure people were playing other games, but halo 3 trounced all of the others in sales to such a degree that there was no market pressure until the time Reach came out during call of duty’s prime.
> 2533274798011936;59:
> > 2533274930223782;38:
> > > 2533274798011936;28:
> > >
> >
> > The reason cod WWII died out is because of -Yoink- streaks and snipers not being balanced. On top of that the infinite warfare trailer had a -Yoink- ton of dislikes and sledgehammer saw that so the time had to scrap advanced warfare 2 and make COD WWII. Sprint isn’t the reason halo is the way it is now? Yeah I agree it’s a collection of things. Adding sprint changed up the gameplay and halo kept missing things that halo should have day 1. H5 infection and big team battle were gone. Forge and theater mode were gone. H5 had a 6 month wait time for forge. And when h5 DID get theater it was broken as all -Yoink-. Also h4 added loadouts and gave EVERYONE sprint and that game is known for how quick the population died. It’s not just sprint no. But it’s PART of the reason. Lastly, halo had no competition? Are you -Yoinking!- kidding me? So in you’re mind no game from 2006-2009 was good enough to give halo competition? Grand theft auto 4 and gears of war weren’t good enough? Battlefield bad company wasn’t good enough? I can’t believe people are using that arguement ಠ_ಠ I even have a video lined up and ready to go to destroy that argument "Halo was only REALLY POPULAR Because it had No Competition" is a BS Argument - YouTube
>
> No. Halo 3 did not have comparable competition. It rather famously broke the sales record for biggest entertainment launch in history, by taking in 170 million dollars on Day 1 and moving 8.1 million copies by that January. By contrast, gears of war—a game roughly a year older than halo 3–had sold only 6+ million copies by the time Gears 3 came out, with gears 2 only marginally better. Bad company 2 only broke 12million sales across ALL PLATFORMS 2 years afrer release, only selling in the 3millions on the 360. And while gta 4 was a gargantuan success—beating halo 3’s record for 24 hour sales—it is also a completely different genre of game for a different market.
>
> You might as well be saying smash brothers was competing with halo. People do play multiple games to scratch multiple itches, and for FPS, halo had no meaningful competition until the Cod craze. Sure people were playing other games, but halo 3 trounced all of the others in sales to such a degree that there was no market pressure until the time Reach came out during call of duty’s prime.
To continue this thought, the video didn’t really address my argument. Towards the end he quite conveniently brushes off the switch in market priority and says Halo didn’t grow with those other more popular franchises, while also saying Halo changed in a negative way. No doubt many missteps along the way lead to its decrease in popularity–Halo is far from blameless, and I agree that Halo 5 in particular not having core features like split screen, low playlist options, a terrible story, and limited social features at launch contributed to its weak start. But the gameplay argument on its own–the one pertinent to this thread–is one this community has backwards in my experience. Most people I’ve talked too outside of the Halo bubble over the past 5 or so years don’t play Halo not because of the changes made to some of its gameplay, but rather because they see the franchise as stagnant and unwilling to change. Halo offers nothing new from game to game, in the same way CoD became stagnant for some time, with whatever changes are made being too small and incremental to keep them playing. And especially in conjunction with factors outside of Halo’s control–namely, the death of the arena shooter genre and the rise in popularity of genres incompatible with Halo’s core gameplay, like battle royale and hero shooters–Halo returning to any kind of former glory is a battle that can’t be won with any certainty, and not one I see being won solely by a return to more classic mechanics. It can start by Infinite having proper social features at launch, Forge and split screen–and we already know split screen is coming, so things are looking up.
But my point more generally is that this fixation on classic gameplay is a fixation shared only by the core Halo fanbase, who still stick with the franchise. It’s a fine conversation on an internal level, but if the question is how to get Halo’s popularity back, that question goes beyond the core Halo community and extends into wider market issues, because most people don’t care about classic vs. non-classic gameplay. They want more novel experiences more quickly, and more recent games have capitalized on this far better than Halo has, with Halo not really breaking out of its niche. Now Infinite is looking to be going for a more open world style of game, and in conjunction with split screen, I see Infinite as being the breath of fresh air this franchise needs. But fixing the issue solely on classic gameplay or not is a reductive approach to addressing the issue.