Shields, Armor and Health

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

One issue that i have had that really needs to change is how shields are viewed in Halo. 2,3 and 4 have it so shields are basically your health. Without them you are pretty much screwed is what was sold to us in Halo 2 at the start of the game. Since gameplay doesn’t really follow lore very well how about 343i makes it so that health/armor is a bit of a bigger focus and have shields…well be shields.

Elite or Spartan we do wear armor under the shields that seems not to be very useful. The UNSC is wasting its time with the bullets they use since all it takes is 1 AP round to the head of a fully armored Spartan and they are dead so why not just give all AR’s AP rounds. Kidding aside shields need to feel more like a protective bubble unlike our Beskar’gam(armor) which should be our second skin.

Making shields act and feel more like an extra layer would add a very nice feel into the game. How i feel this could work is making it so that only Sniper Rifles can get headshots as we already know them as and make it so normal weapons get a damage boost. This could also be done for other parts of the body such as having 3 bars of health sort of. Shields, Armor and health.

Shields-Weak against plasma, strong against projectiles, recharges half as strong as armor.

Armor-Stronger than shields, weak against projectiles, moderate at plasma, non recharge able only repairable(via repair kit)

Health- Half as strong as shields, weak against everything refillable by med packs

Having this Shields,Armor, and Health or SAH could bring back three melee hit. 1st shields, 2nd armor, 3rd health for the kill. Armor will be repairable with repair kits which can be dropped at certain parts of the map. Damaging armor and hitting health points can do damage to the players such as piercing leg armor and hitting the flesh will cause the affected player to be slowed down.

Precision weapons can still get headshots on targets with low head armor. Giving them a bit of an edge while automatics have more of a chance to pierce the armor adding sort of a better flow to Automatics and Precision weapons as to how things are now when most players will discard their Automatics for the precision weapon.

The poll will be limited to SAH and the normal system if you feel that adjustments are needed or wish to go into further detail about your option and views just leave a reply and i’ll try to get to it.

2

I don’t like this, I won’t stifle your creativity, but I feel its a bad Idea.

The Health/Shields/Precision Weapon thing works absolutely fine, no doubts about it.

My proof comes, ironically, from a weapon in H4 that I loathe. The Assault Rifle. This thing is a OP as hell in H4 and there is no denying it, if you wish to, I put some facts down.
It is the faster RoF of the Automatic Rifles (I consider the suppressor an SMG) Both of these two rifles have the exact same damage ratios, including shots required to break shelds, which is against the long standing Bullets>Health/Bullet<Shields and Plasma<Health/Plasma>Shields
we had seen in Every FPS halo prior to H4. An its a 13 shot kill, with what I think is 7/8 shots break shields, but you only need to put around 6 shots into your target to preform a Pummel. maybe 5.
My point is, even if you were to nerf this to 16 shot kill, that still competes with the precision weapons quite nicely, proven before they updated the weapons a few months ago, the AR prior to being “nerfed” say alot of use.

The Shields/Health system is absolutly fine, needs no changes, except I would like to see a return of a Medpack System in H5 back from reach, which in turn was back from Halo CE

3

> I don’t like this, I won’t stifle your creativity, but I feel its a bad Idea.
>
> The Health/Shields/Precision Weapon thing works absolutely fine, no doubts about it.
>
> My proof comes, ironically, from a weapon in H4 that I loathe. The Assault Rifle. This thing is a OP as hell in H4 and there is no denying it, if you wish to, I put some facts down.
> It is the faster RoF of the Automatic Rifles (I consider the suppressor an SMG) Both of these two rifles have the exact same damage ratios, including shots required to break shelds, which is against the long standing Bullets>Health/Bullet<Shields and Plasma<Health/Plasma>Shields
> we had seen in Every FPS halo prior to H4. An its a 13 shot kill, with what I think is 7/8 shots break shields, but you only need to put around 6 shots into your target to preform a Pummel. maybe 5.
> My point is, even if you were to nerf this to 16 shot kill, that still competes with the precision weapons quite nicely, proven before they updated the weapons a few months ago, the AR prior to being “nerfed” say alot of use.
>
> The Shields/Health system is absolutly fine, needs no changes, except I would like to see a return of a Medpack System in H5 back from reach, which in turn was back from Halo CE

Understood and i agree with bring back the Halo CE/Reach styled health.

4

The healthpack system doesn’t really work well for campaign. Halo:CE always required that there had been medics that had gone ahead of you and died. It worked in Reach and ODST because it was a human planet.

Chief often goes into alien areas, making health packs awkward. The covenant doesn’t seem like it believes in healthcare, the forerunners would probably just be like “Why doesn’t your armor do it?”.

Then you get the fluff issues in that the MK6 (and presumably all armors after) has the whole regenerating health thing. Sure, you could do separate bars for campaign and multiplayer, but games tend to like keeping such basics the same between modes.

That doesn’t mean I don’t miss having health be an actual thing. I felt the lack of it changed the flow and pace of halo in a way I simply don’t like.

5

Cool thoughts! I just caution that including 3 factors in the mix means extra work ensuring that all the various weapons play in a balanced way. It can be done, but it must be done carefully!

I do like the 3-melee concept, and think it could feed into an improved melee system in Halo 5. I’d be all for that if it doesn’t slow down gameplay.

Medpacks would be great, but the gameplay needs to encourage it. Halo 4’s plethora of 1-shot kill weapons, stickies, and cardboard vehicles makes medpacks pointless. If the style of play sticks to Reach, then you might actually get use out of them…

Honestly, the biggest SAH concern I have is the shield recharge time. Halo 3 had a good system in place… Halo 4’s takes too long. I blame perks.

6

> > I don’t like this, I won’t stifle your creativity, but I feel its a bad Idea.
> >
> > The Health/Shields/Precision Weapon thing works absolutely fine, no doubts about it.
> >
> > My proof comes, ironically, from a weapon in H4 that I loathe. The Assault Rifle. This thing is a OP as hell in H4 and there is no denying it, if you wish to, I put some facts down.
> > It is the faster RoF of the Automatic Rifles (I consider the suppressor an SMG) Both of these two rifles have the exact same damage ratios, including shots required to break shelds, which is against the long standing Bullets>Health/Bullet<Shields and Plasma<Health/Plasma>Shields
> > we had seen in Every FPS halo prior to H4. An its a 13 shot kill, with what I think is 7/8 shots break shields, but you only need to put around 6 shots into your target to preform a Pummel. maybe 5.
> > My point is, even if you were to nerf this to 16 shot kill, that still competes with the precision weapons quite nicely, proven before they updated the weapons a few months ago, the AR prior to being “nerfed” say alot of use.
> >
> > The Shields/Health system is absolutly fine, needs no changes, except I would like to see a return of a Medpack System in H5 back from reach, which in turn was back from Halo CE
>
> Understood and i agree with bring back the Halo CE/Reach styled health.

The health system does not work. It punishes players for winning a 1v1 by almost guaranteeing that you will lose the next 1v1 you come across. How it is now is perfect Yes it doesn’t make sense that the armor doesn’t really do anything, but it plays great and that’s all that really matters.

7

Not really, If you know where the packs are, and try to stay on a path where on it going to be nearby then its ok, it works fine, look at battlefield, That game needs medpacks, but you dont always die right after a 1v1. It could be implemented that your health recharges overtime, but there are medpacks on map to recharge it instantly, which would be better i think

8

> > > I don’t like this, I won’t stifle your creativity, but I feel its a bad Idea.
> > >
> > > The Health/Shields/Precision Weapon thing works absolutely fine, no doubts about it.
> > >
> > > My proof comes, ironically, from a weapon in H4 that I loathe. The Assault Rifle. This thing is a OP as hell in H4 and there is no denying it, if you wish to, I put some facts down.
> > > It is the faster RoF of the Automatic Rifles (I consider the suppressor an SMG) Both of these two rifles have the exact same damage ratios, including shots required to break shelds, which is against the long standing Bullets>Health/Bullet<Shields and Plasma<Health/Plasma>Shields
> > > we had seen in Every FPS halo prior to H4. An its a 13 shot kill, with what I think is 7/8 shots break shields, but you only need to put around 6 shots into your target to preform a Pummel. maybe 5.
> > > My point is, even if you were to nerf this to 16 shot kill, that still competes with the precision weapons quite nicely, proven before they updated the weapons a few months ago, the AR prior to being “nerfed” say alot of use.
> > >
> > > The Shields/Health system is absolutly fine, needs no changes, except I would like to see a return of a Medpack System in H5 back from reach, which in turn was back from Halo CE
> >
> > Understood and i agree with bring back the Halo CE/Reach styled health.
>
> The health system does not work. It punishes players for winning a 1v1 by almost guaranteeing that you will lose the next 1v1 you come across. How it is now is perfect Yes it doesn’t make sense that the armor doesn’t really do anything, but it plays great and that’s all that really matters.

> Not really, If you know where the packs are, and try to stay on a path where on it going to be nearby then its ok, it works fine, look at battlefield, That game needs medpacks, but you dont always die right after a 1v1. It could be implemented that your health recharges overtime, but there are medpacks on map to recharge it instantly, which would be better i think

Agreed. Health and Health Packs don’t punish they encourage. Either knowing the map or being better a fighting so you don’t lose much health and if a person is slightly better than you if you take down their health it encourages someone to go back to finish them off rather than just “Well this player is clearly better than me might as well give up.” Besides Halo isn’t even a lvl type game. Most things in Halo depend on team support anyways.

9

I myself agree with Darkrain491. The health recharge rate, for both Spartans and elites (Assuming they bring back elites as MP characters), should be like Halo Reach’s Elites, but Medical kits like in ODST/Reach should be present, to quickly regenerate a player’s health. However, I don’t believe that it should cause an instant Shield recharge like it did in CE and Reach (And ODST, if you consider Stamina)

10

I hate the Health System, but understand what it can add.

I think having a Health System like the Elite Health System in Halo REACH could be used for Spartans.

You would have your normal Shield System and a Health System that regenerates over a set amount of time.

I hate the HCE and HR Spartan Health System, where to replenish you require a Health Pack. Your spending the game searching for a health pack instead of playing.

Having the Reach Elite Health System, also makes the Equipment/AA Regenerator, more useful and valuable.

OP, you are correct that Armour has no meaning in Halo Games, as it only seems to be Shields and Health. When there should be a third system for your shields between Shields and Health. And by lore this would make a lot of sense.

But I guess, if you add Armor as well. Game play would be much slower. As Spartan II armor is very strong and like a mini tank. Kill Times would be much much slower, unless you had a power weapon. So, yes it would seem a great idea to add it for Lore, but unfortunately the changes it would add, would hurt more.

It maybe great for this to be added in campaign by use of a Skull. And that you would need to find a repair center or something to repair your damaged armor.

11

> I hate the Health System, but understand what it can add.
>
> I think having a Health System like the Elite Health System in Halo REACH could be used for Spartans.
>
> You would have your normal Shield System and a Health System that regenerates over a set amount of time.
>
> <mark>I hate the HCE and HR Spartan Health System, where to replenish you require a Health Pack. Your spending the game searching for a health pack instead of playing.</mark>
>
> Having the Reach Elite Health System, also makes the Equipment/AA Regenerator, more useful and valuable.

Same but I also hate how you in Halo 4 can read book, go train, make some food, before your shield starts recharging. It shield go back to around 4 seconds recharge delay time.

12

I think it’s a good idea- but is likely to compromise and affect the base multiplayer.

13

> Same but I also hate how you in Halo 4 can read book, go train, make some food, before your shield starts recharging. It shield go back to around 4 seconds recharge delay time.

Agreed, the H4 shield and health system sucks.

It should be the same as H3, but then H3 you played as a Spartan II and in H4 your a Spartan IV.

They need to bring back the Spartan II again. They had the perfect chance to do this for H4 as the campaign was based on the MC. But they didn’t.

14

> > Same but I also hate how you in Halo 4 can read book, go train, make some food, before your shield starts recharging. It shield go back to around 4 seconds recharge delay time.
>
> Agreed, the H4 shield and health system sucks.
>
> It should be the same as H3, but then H3 you played as a Spartan II and in H4 your a Spartan IV.
>
> They need to bring back the Spartan II again. They had the perfect chance to do this for H4 as the campaign was based on the MC. But they didn’t.

Except chief’s shields in campaign have the same issue. The shield recharge time is purely change in game mechanics and not because you play a IV.

If anything the IV’s would have an even shorter recharge time. The Spartan-IV program is definitely not being done on the cheap.

15

I would rather see Health get ‘buffed’ to CE levels. In CE health and shields both had 100 hitpoints 100/100. In pretty much every game since it has been at or around 70(Shield) and 45(Health).

So this means that you have have lost half or your hitpoints before your shields even dropped. I have never really liked how this turns out in gameplay. Despite the lack of health recharge in CE, I still feel like I can take more damage in CE than I can in the other games. I would imagine this also makes balancing plasma/energy weapons vs projectile weapons a little odd since shields take up the lion’s share of the hitpoints.

Let’s bring back at bit of simplicity
100 Shields
100 Health
*Plasma/Energy(Covy Plasma/Radiation) = bonus against shields
*Projectile(Human/Brute) = bonus against health
*Forerunner stuff = Equal effectiveness

*Melee: 100 damage flat. This would prevent 1HK beatdowns unless shields are fully drained(or health is lower) but unlike in Reach damage would still bleedthrough. This allows for a more interesting thought process in melee battles. “Should I try and break his shields before I melee?” “Or maybe I just wear him down, melee, and finish off with a few shots?”

*Grenades(Frag): 125-134(either 1 1/4 or 1 1/3) damage. This would make them similar to Reach grenades however since you actually have decent health you won’t be killed by a single grenade with 75% of your shields. You will need to be have 1/3 of your shields or less to be vulnerable to 1 grenade.

TL;DR
We don’t need to add a whole new element, we just need to adjust the health/shield ratio.

16

> > > Same but I also hate how you in Halo 4 can read book, go train, make some food, before your shield starts recharging. It shield go back to around 4 seconds recharge delay time.
> >
> > Agreed, the H4 shield and health system sucks.
> >
> > It should be the same as H3, but then H3 you played as a Spartan II and in H4 your a Spartan IV.
> >
> > They need to bring back the Spartan II again. They had the perfect chance to do this for H4 as the campaign was based on the MC. But they didn’t.
>
> Except chief’s shields in campaign have the same issue. The shield recharge time is purely change in game mechanics and not because you play a IV.
>
> If anything the IV’s would have an even shorter recharge time. The Spartan-IV program is definitely not being done on the cheap.

The recharge time being delayed is mostly because of sprint.

17

> > > > Same but I also hate how you in Halo 4 can read book, go train, make some food, before your shield starts recharging. It shield go back to around 4 seconds recharge delay time.
> > >
> > > Agreed, the H4 shield and health system sucks.
> > >
> > > It should be the same as H3, but then H3 you played as a Spartan II and in H4 your a Spartan IV.
> > >
> > > They need to bring back the Spartan II again. They had the perfect chance to do this for H4 as the campaign was based on the MC. But they didn’t.
> >
> > Except chief’s shields in campaign have the same issue. The shield recharge time is purely change in game mechanics and not because you play a IV.
> >
> > If anything the IV’s would have an even shorter recharge time. The Spartan-IV program is definitely not being done on the cheap.
>
> The recharge time being delayed is mostly because of sprint.

It could really be attributed to the inclusion of Recharge/Shielding perks… To make those balanced, yet still useful, they made the base recharge rate slower and carried it over to Campaign for consistency (that’s my take on it, anyways).

18

I just want the Health meter to be visible like in Reach, but have it recharge like in 2/3/4. I’d much prefer to know that my health is currently at 4 bars, than my screen is another shade of red. It’d also allow for medkits to come back for Customs, which is another plus.

19

I want something like the Halo: Reach Elite’s health system. Shields recharge quicker but health takes longer.

20

> > > > > Same but I also hate how you in Halo 4 can read book, go train, make some food, before your shield starts recharging. It shield go back to around 4 seconds recharge delay time.
> > > >
> > > > Agreed, the H4 shield and health system sucks.
> > > >
> > > > It should be the same as H3, but then H3 you played as a Spartan II and in H4 your a Spartan IV.
> > > >
> > > > They need to bring back the Spartan II again. They had the perfect chance to do this for H4 as the campaign was based on the MC. But they didn’t.
> > >
> > > Except chief’s shields in campaign have the same issue. The shield recharge time is purely change in game mechanics and not because you play a IV.
> > >
> > > If anything the IV’s would have an even shorter recharge time. The Spartan-IV program is definitely not being done on the cheap.
> >
> > The recharge time being delayed is mostly because of sprint.
>
> It could really be attributed to the inclusion of Recharge/Shielding perks… To make those balanced, yet still useful, they made the base recharge rate slower and carried it over to Campaign for consistency (that’s my take on it, anyways).

There are obviously more reasons as to why the recharge delay is as slow at is, but sprinting away would become an even bigger problem (bigger than it already is) if the Recharge delay weren’t as slow at is. By trying to minimize a problem, they created another annoying one.