Share the Pain System

First off, don’t take this thread too seriously.

So I was thinking about the betrayal boot system and I had weird idea. What if, in Halo 4, it was scrapped? What if it was changed? This is what I came up with.

The Share the Pain System

Betrayals would function the same. The boot system would remain, but be added on to. In addition to occasionally getting the option to boot, every time you betray someone it causes an automatic suicide.
Think about civilians in Reach. If you kill (betray) one, you automatically die. That’s how it would work.
When a player betrays a teammate, the teammate dies and it gives the player a betrayal. At the same time, the player instantly dies and gets a suicide. The scoring system would count both and give the player -2 kills and +1 death. Additionally, you get respawn time added for the betrayal and respawn time added for the suicide.

Of course there would be griefing, but there’s griefing with everything so why does that matter?

Giving an instant and guaranteed punishment for betrayal along with the possible threat of booting might actually be a good thing. Awareness of your teammates would go up. Explosives spam would go down. Betraying for weapons would be pointless. There are a list of possible benefits.

Well that’s a look at what goes on in my head. What do you guys think?

I like this too.

> > If you betray someone you always get an option to do something against them.
> >
> > 1 betrayal: Forgive, or Punish (punish makes them commit suicide)
> >
> > 2 betrayals: Forgive, or Punish (Punish still makes them commit suicide)
> >
> > 3 betrayals: Forgive or Punish (Punish boots the player from the match).
> >
> > The betrayals stack up on the person whose been betrayings record. As soon as he hits three and he is punished (He has to be punished twice before, its like a strike system) than he is booted. This is very fair in my opinion.
> >
> > Although I still like the option of a vote to kick option.
>
> Remove the strike system part and I’m all for that.

> First off, don’t take this thread too seriously.
>
> So I was thinking about the betrayal boot system and I had weird idea. What if, in Halo 4, it was scrapped? What if it was changed? This is what I came up with.
>
> The Share the Pain System
>
> Betrayals would function the same. The boot system would remain, but be added on to. In addition to occasionally getting the option to boot, every time you betray someone it causes an automatic suicide.
> Think about civilians in Reach. If you kill (betray) one, you automatically die. That’s how it would work.
> When a player betrays a teammate, the teammate dies and it gives the player a betrayal. At the same time, the player instantly dies and gets a suicide. The scoring system would count both and give the player -2 kills and +1 death. Additionally, you get respawn time added for the betrayal and respawn time added for the suicide.
>
> Of course there would be griefing, but there’s griefing with everything so why does that matter?
>
> Giving an instant and guaranteed punishment for betrayal along with the possible threat of booting might actually be a good thing. Awareness of your teammates would go up. Explosives spam would go down. Betraying for weapons would be pointless. There are a list of possible benefits.
>
>
> Well that’s a look at what goes on in my head. What do you guys think?

I think 343 should turn friendly fire off.

Well it would reduce the number of betrayals for power weapons…But it would be hell when you get griefed…So no.

> > First off, don’t take this thread too seriously.
> >
> > So I was thinking about the betrayal boot system and I had weird idea. What if, in Halo 4, it was scrapped? What if it was changed? This is what I came up with.
> >
> > The Share the Pain System
> >
> > Betrayals would function the same. The boot system would remain, but be added on to. In addition to occasionally getting the option to boot, every time you betray someone it causes an automatic suicide.
> > Think about civilians in Reach. If you kill (betray) one, you automatically die. That’s how it would work.
> > When a player betrays a teammate, the teammate dies and it gives the player a betrayal. At the same time, the player instantly dies and gets a suicide. The scoring system would count both and give the player -2 kills and +1 death. Additionally, you get respawn time added for the betrayal and respawn time added for the suicide.
> >
> > Of course there would be griefing, but there’s griefing with everything so why does that matter?
> >
> > Giving an instant and guaranteed punishment for betrayal along with the possible threat of booting might actually be a good thing. Awareness of your teammates would go up. Explosives spam would go down. Betraying for weapons would be pointless. There are a list of possible benefits.
> >
> >
> > Well that’s a look at what goes on in my head. What do you guys think?
>
> I think 343 should turn friendly fire off.

That is a definate no-no…Just imagine the grenade spammers.

> I think 343 should turn friendly fire off.

Why?

Is it really necessary to quote my entire post when the quote is irrelevant to your post?

> Well it would reduce the number of betrayals for power weapons…But it would be hell when you get griefed…So no.

That’s why we keep betrayal booting as well.

It would definitely lower the number of intentional betrayals, but there are some problems with it. If a betrayal was on accident, and at a crucial moment in a match (usually object matches) your team would have two people out of commission instead of one and would most likely lose that match. The other problem is that if it was a slayer game variant your team would lose two points instead of just one and that would suck even more. So no, I don’t think it’s a good idea.

> It would definitely lower the number of intentional betrayals, but there are some problems with it. If a betrayal was on accident, and at a crucial moment in a match (usually object matches) your team would have two people out of commission instead of one and would most likely lose that match. The other problem is that if it was a slayer game variant your team would lose two points instead of just one and that would suck even more. So no, I don’t think it’s a good idea.

You need to be aware of your teammates. This system just requires you to think then fire instead of spam and pray.

> I think 343 should turn friendly fire off.

I don’t agree. Friendly fire in Halo is a cool feature. Unlike in other games (in which each death is much quicker and much less important) friendly fire should definitely be turned off. But in Halo, one shot to the back of the head with a DMR isn’t going to cause your death. I mean it sucks, but without it the game would lose some of it realism. And I know it’s set in the future but what feels real in the Halo universe can still be called realism.

> > I think 343 should turn friendly fire off.
>
> Why?

I’m not trolling. I understand (from the drop-in thread) what we all think “Halo” is. I’ve been a Halo player the same number of years that you all have.

But Halo has to adapt to the huge number of players who have come onto XBL since Halo 2 days. Friendly fire is a “cool” concept, rooted in the past, where teammates were a community, and where players cared about the victory. Anyone who has played Halo 3, or Reach will tell you, those days are long gone.

Today’s player is a me-first jerk, who uses the old-style Halo system to abuse and punish his teammates.

Friendly fire = betrayals and griefing
No drop-in system = quitting and leaving your teammates short-handed

Today’s player sometimes gets more joy out of shafting his own teammates than he does killing the enemy. You will say, “That’s not me.” But it only takes a small portion of the multiplayer population to essentially ruin hundreds of matchmaking games. Anyone who went on bnet will remember the hundreds of threads written out of frustration on these topics.

We need to get 343 to bring back the Halo we know, by getting rid of AA’s and other late-entry gimmicks. Things like friendly fire and drop in are not game changers. They are improvements, based on the way today’s player plays the game. And once they were put into Halo, I seriously doubt anyone would even care about the paranoid effects of these changes.

When Bungie turned off friendly fire in Firefight, you heard the chorus of complaints from some. “It’s not Halo!” But in the hundreds of games I’ve played since, I haven’t felt any less Halo, and I’ve seen the benefit of not being able to false-boot teammates by walking in front of their rockets.

The solution the OP suggested is complicated, and just gives griefers another way to find loopholes. The betrayal system doesn’t work. The problem is friendly fire.

> > It would definitely lower the number of intentional betrayals, but there are some problems with it. If a betrayal was on accident, and at a crucial moment in a match (usually object matches) your team would have two people out of commission instead of one and would most likely lose that match. The other problem is that if it was a slayer game variant your team would lose two points instead of just one and that would suck even more. So no, I don’t think it’s a good idea.
>
> You need to be aware of your teammates. This system just requires you to think then fire instead of spam and pray.

If you betray someone you always get an option to do something against them.

1 betrayal: Forgive, or Punish (punish makes them commit suicide)

2 betrayals: Forgive, or Punish (Punish still makes them commit suicide)

3 betrayals: Forgive or Punish (Punish boots the player from the match).

The betrayals stack up on the person whose been betrayings record. As soon as he hits three and he is punished (He has to be punished twice before, its like a strike system) than he is booted. This is very fair in my opinion.

Although I still like the option of a vote to kick option.

> You need to be aware of your teammates. This system just requires you to think then fire instead of spam and pray.

Lols. You make it sound like I kill teammate all the time. But picture this a teammate is driving a warthog on Hemorrhage with a gunner on the back. The teammate is just driving along, and suddenly a different teammate evades away from a fight and straight into the path of the warthog. There is no time to stop. You try to swerve but fail. Teammate dies. Betrayal. You die. Suicide. You’re gunner is left there to die with no driver. 3 deaths because one teammate decided to evade inappropriately, how is that fair? No matter how aware you are of other teammates, those teammates are occasionally going to run into a rocket. They are occasionally going to charge into an enemy base and get betrayed by grenades. And if you do accidentally betray a teammate with the rockets, now the enemy has the rockets too. Awesome.

> When Bungie turned off friendly fire in Firefight, you heard the chorus of complaints from some. “It’s not Halo!” But in the hundreds of games I’ve played since, I haven’t felt any less Halo, and I’ve seen the benefit of not being able to false-boot teammates by walking in front of their rockets.

…Hmm. I can only remember a chorus of joy.
All the same, your opinion is your own and you make good points, but the logical list of problems with turning off friendly fire in competitive modes is far too long for it to ever happen.

> If you betray someone you always get an option to do something against them.
>
> 1 betrayal: Forgive, or Punish (punish makes them commit suicide)
>
> 2 betrayals: Forgive, or Punish (Punish still makes them commit suicide)
>
> 3 betrayals: Forgive or Punish (Punish boots the player from the match).
>
> The betrayals stack up on the person whose been betrayings record. As soon as he hits three and he is punished (He has to be punished twice before, its like a strike system) than he is booted. This is very fair in my opinion.
>
> Although I still like the option of a vote to kick option.

This I can get behind. Although maybe the first betrayal no suicide option. Not sure though. I could go either way. Betrayal #1 has the automatic punishment of extending the respawn time.

> occasionally

> If you betray someone you always get an option to do something against them.
>
> 1 betrayal: Forgive, or Punish (punish makes them commit suicide)
>
> 2 betrayals: Forgive, or Punish (Punish still makes them commit suicide)
>
> 3 betrayals: Forgive or Punish (Punish boots the player from the match).
>
> The betrayals stack up on the person whose been betrayings record. As soon as he hits three and he is punished (He has to be punished twice before, its like a strike system) than he is booted. This is very fair in my opinion.
>
> Although I still like the option of a vote to kick option.

Remove the strike system part and I’m all for that.

You’ve made some valid point in your “Turn Friendly fire off” argument, but I’m still not convinced. That said you’ve definitely given me something to consider / think about.

> > If you betray someone you always get an option to do something against them.
> >
> > 1 betrayal: Forgive, or Punish (punish makes them commit suicide)
> >
> > 2 betrayals: Forgive, or Punish (Punish still makes them commit suicide)
> >
> > 3 betrayals: Forgive or Punish (Punish boots the player from the match).
> >
> > The betrayals stack up on the person whose been betrayings record. As soon as he hits three and he is punished (He has to be punished twice before, its like a strike system) than he is booted. This is very fair in my opinion.
> >
> > Although I still like the option of a vote to kick option.
>
> This I can get behind. Although maybe the first betrayal no suicide option. Not sure though. I could go either way. Betrayal #1 has the automatic punishment of extending the respawn time.

Hmm . . . your right, first time is kind of harsh.

1st betrayal: If punished your respawn time is increased by ten seconds, with a visual telling you that you were punished for a betrayal.

2nd betrayal: If punished you commit suicide.

3rd betrayal: If punished you are booted.

The only reason I gave the 1st betrayal a suicide is because of insta spawn power weapon betrayals, but that doesn’t always happen and commiting suicide because of betrayal twice would kinda tick me off seeing as I never betray on purpose (except for this one time when someone stole my assassination on a very bad day).

> > If you betray someone you always get an option to do something against them.
> >
> > 1 betrayal: Forgive, or Punish (punish makes them commit suicide)
> >
> > 2 betrayals: Forgive, or Punish (Punish still makes them commit suicide)
> >
> > 3 betrayals: Forgive or Punish (Punish boots the player from the match).
> >
> > The betrayals stack up on the person whose been betrayings record. As soon as he hits three and he is punished (He has to be punished twice before, its like a strike system) than he is booted. This is very fair in my opinion.
> >
> > Although I still like the option of a vote to kick option.
>
> Remove the strike system part and I’m all for that.

It needs to be strikes because if you betrayed someone by accident the first time and they know that and they forgive you, you shouldn’t be punished for another two accidents and getting booted.

In this system an honest player could get five betrayals but still not even get a strike, this in my opinion is an honor system that can’t be abused too hard.

> this in my opinion is an honor system that can’t be abused too hard.

If only you knew…

If you’ve successfully betrayed teammates 3 times on accident, something’s wrong.