Seriously, is it really necessary to have global statistics in social games?

Games Halo Infinite
1

DRAMATIZATION

After a long day at work, from 8 in the morning to 6 in the afternoon, I come home tired and decide to play Halo Infinite’s MP for a while.

I review the daily challenges:

- Kill X amount of players with Y weapon in PVP
- Complete 2 BTB matches
- Kill 50 enemies

I think for a few minutes and decide to complete the first challenge playing in Slayer 4vs4. Since it can only be completed against real players and not against bots.

First game: I don’t get the map where X weapon appears, I play normally and I get an 8/3 and we win, good game, let’s continue with the next attempt.

Second game: Touch the map with weapon X, I am worried that the map will not touch me again so I decide to focus on getting it and completing the challenge. I am not concentrating on winning but on completing the challenge and my game goes bad, I get a 5/8 losing the game, I receive a message from a teammate reprimanding me for not having been very active. I feel a little bad about it.

Third game: I touch the map where X weapon is and I focus on it again because I have few deaths left, but I coincide with another player trying the same, we won the game but I get a 2/6 because I focused on that player and his weapon . I don’t complete the challenge and I get tired of trying.

Final summary, 2/3 games won where one of them was not thanks to me. And with a total K / D ratio of 15/17 for the global statistics of my social games.

We move on to the next challenge, I do my first BTB game, I find a quick game and we end up in a team of unknown people versus another team where 6 out of 8 people are party together. We lose the game, but I get a ratio of 12/5.

Second game BTB, in my team a group of 4 plays in a party, in the middle of the game they decide to leave leaving us 4 against 8. We lose the game obtaining a ratio of 8/12 and because I decided to hide in the middle of the game since I did not want to leave the game.

At this point of the night I feel really tired and burned out from playing against real players, I decide the rest of the night to play against the bots and relax, none of the things I do with the bots count in the final statistics.

Added to this we add:

  • I play “Infected”, I get a lot of points to finish second, result: Game lost, a loss of a good game is saved in my social statistics.

  • GRIFBALL: Our favorite sport, I kill 80 players with hammer blows and they kill me 50 times. Statistics that are added and accumulated with the rest of the global statistics of the social games.

  • Personalized games with friends: Having their own global statistics (???)

I could go on with a long etc

I would like to open a serious and important debate about the oversaturation of statistics that we have, of how I really believe and think that most of the statistics could be simplified to the minimum or even eliminated completely and return to a state similar to when HALO: CE, where There were hardly any stats and the only thing that really mattered was having fun without worrying about having a bad player CV.

I know you will say that these statistics do not matter since they are social games and they are only out of curiosity. To which I reply, what do we want them for then? Why have a CV stained with unbalanced games, games that are played just for fun, and games in which I have dedicated myself more to working on challenges than playing well? What do they really contribute?

Why not center, polish, sharpen, and improve the stats that really matter? The ones from the competitive arenas, the ones that really matter.

You can simply say that they are ignored and that’s it, but nobody here likes to have their profile stained, we all always seek to show our best face, and we only do that in competitive games. Social games should be for and for fun exclusively, without ever taking into account global statistics that DO NOT CONTRIBUTE ANYTHING, that only dirties our profile, and that nothing else serves to provoke comments in discussions out of tune when you do not know what to argue ( which has already happened to me in the old forum).

My personal request to 343 is that they really consider removing the stats for custom games, and social games, and instead replace it with:

  • A list of the total games that have been played and in which game modes.

  • The total hours invested in the MP

  • The list of medals you get and which ones we are missing (This is obviously essential)

I know that less than a month before launch this is not something that matters, and there will be people who will object to what I say because they will be professional players and they will want to have some proof of their exploits in social games to be the envy of their friends ( Which could already be done perfectly with the statistics of competitive games).

But, I really believe in my heart that social games should remove all their global stats, as we have a serious problem with unnecessary stuffing. And focus only and exclusively on fun. Eliminating any type of concern that it may generate in the player in one way or another.

Thank you very much for reading me.

8 Likes
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I understand this feeling, but personally I love having access to this data. Yes social is about having fun, but at the end of the day every match is a competition. One team wins, one team loses, and for me the fun is in trying to get the win. And along that journey, I enjoy being able to look at the statistics on how I’ve played, be able to compare with my buddies to see how i stack up next to them. Perhaps a good compromise would be to have the social information tracked, but not displayed publicly on a profile?

As a side note, the current implementation of daily challenges are only playing, and then eventually winning, pvp games. Daily challenges never require using specific weapons or game modes, those will all be in weekly challenges.

9 Likes
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“Professional driver, closed course. Do not attempt.” -shows a car driving down a regular road at regular speeds-

Anyway.

I wouldn’t be opposed to them removing statistics entirely, since I don’t really care. But that’s the thing: if you don’t want to care about the statistics, you don’t have to.

As with many things, this problem could be solved with… a toggle. They could let people decide whether or not they want their statistics tracked.

7 Likes
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I would have to agree with @GLNK1, hiding the stats in social games can be an option but the stats themselves, which they are creating this Waypoint mobile app around need to stay.

I like stats because they can be used for anything, you can measure your growth as a player, compare it with others and even get granular and inventive, to add KPI’s for a team.

5

Stats help keep me interested in a game.

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Stats should be available for the player to look up. And there should be more of them (hopefully the Halo API will be upgraded as well).

But don’t show meaningless stats in game. We don’t need to see everyone’s K:D in capture the flag. It’s pointless… and in some cases just plain toxic.

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I generally think people who care about stats are silly. Especially those who think they mean anything relative to player skill.

I think, its fun to see some things. Like with player dmg being a thing now, seeing someones average per game would be nice.

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I used to think like you, until the global statistics for Halo 5. What good are global statistics where such disparate and unbalanced game modes are shared whose only objective in these game modes is fun? Infection, Grifball, all game modes with random weapons, special rules, etc …

Everyone plays to win, whether there are statistics or not (except for the occasional troll), and this urge to win will always be there whether there are statistics or not.

In addition, if we want to compare ourselves with our friends and have a statistic to see if we have improved or not, we can always use the global statistics of competitive games. Where we know that at least variables to take into account will be as fair and balanced as possible.

I know, it was a small dramatization to expose the idea that there will come a point where the statistics will be affected in a negative way because we will play more focusing on other aspects of Halo Infinite, losing any usefulness that these statistics have.

Statistics that provide real value are what keep you interested in the game, filler statistics with no real value do not.

It is what I want to go to, I know that there are people who want to have these statistics, but there are so many and so much filler that in the end it ends up being unnecessarily counterproductive for everyone when social games do not seek that monitoring as precise as one could expect from a competitive arena.

Do not take it lightly, there are those who really care about any type of statistics, even those that have no value, because in the end everyone wants to have a positive and beautiful player profile.

A need that didn’t exist before because unranked game stats were not being saved or taken into account.

What I’m trying to say is that the statistics shown for social items should be rethought. I do not see any sense in such a deep and exhaustive monitoring of all aspects of the player, except at the competitive level.

There is too much unnecessary padding that does not bring anything to the player. Nobody cares how many games he has lost, or what his K / D ratio is when he is dedicated to playing social games where killing 80 people and dying 80 times is normal, less if one is dedicated to playing custom games on maps of careers, and a long etc.

Social statistics should be rethought, focus on being really useful in a more ordinary and carefree environment, where the really important thing is to try to win, but have fun along the way.

1 Like
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I see your point, I was never a fan of people who would boost or play SWAT and find themsleves to be Champions with an ego that followed, however not hold up in any other playlist. I have personally always been more granular in data science to find real value but for online gaming communities and not really a very conventional skill or takeaway for most people here.

I found my answer to this problem through the Halo API and developers of websites that have found a way to greater parse data, but as I understand this thread and your problem it doesn’t solve the issue of global stats being put on a pedestal.

Innately though if Social games people are playing to win anyway, people die and that is just how the game goes in silly modes and so on. Your answers solid you won my vote here, it would be better to suggest that stat tracking be based on what game mode is being played over just globally removing stats, I would see benefit in parsing out my K/D in Actionsack vs. Slayer but also is it the studios responsibility that we put so much weight behind the stats?

At the end of the day too, the whole game is supposed to be fun, I don’t think that this should ruin the fun for you. If your playing social games and tired of getting absolutely demolished for fun or don’t want to “sweat” (the current state of MCC) maybe find a group to play customs with

2 Likes
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My concern in part is also the fact itself that with the arrival of a new community of Halo players due to the MP F2P, with a more open profile, less hardcore, more of playing games without worry or keeping an eye on statistics , ends up giving a situation in which in the end, who cares about these statistics is negatively affected. Compounding the situation with the introduction of challenges to complete the season pass.

I know it is not a priority now, there are other more important things. But I think we should have a little debate on the possibility of evolving, or improving, the real usefulness of the global statistics of social games. What is the correct approach we want to give you.

Due to the current approach that we have had for social games in Halo 5, being oriented towards competitive statistics, I do not see it correct since it goes against the essence of social games itself. Pure fun.

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I’ve finally got to the point where I don’t care about my stats in any game. It is very refreshing to be able to play however I want in the moment.

Big Team is very fun when stats are thrown to the side.

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Now imagine that those statistics did not directly exist, and that concern for the players would be eliminated. It really is a psychological effect that, whether we like it or not, affects the players to a greater or lesser extent.

I don’t want to propose that it be eliminated entirely, but I think the right thing to do would be to seriously rethink their approach. Put aside the competitive approach and consider it more as a social approach. Statistics that help more for social interactions, than for competitive comparisons.

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Having those stats doesn’t affect much of anything of you don’t look. I like having it because on my chill non ranked days I enjoy having the stats to look at to see if I’m improving overall.

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I liked when they were online only, you could seek them out if you wanted but they weren’t in the front of everyone’s mind.

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as a casual player I don’t really care for statistics :bar_chart: but I love goals and I understand that “challenges” can be frustrating

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But the global statistics of the social games would only help you to know if you are improving if you dedicate yourself exclusively to playing specific game modes, such as 4vs4 arena or BTB, or the game mode that you want to focus on.

Being also statistics that would be affected when you decide to play unbalanced games, or have the bad luck to chain a series of bad games where people leave your team, engage in trolling, etc, etc …

And at that point, wouldn’t the ranked statistics be more useful to you? There you have the assurance that everything will be as fair and balanced as possible and you will have more relevant information about your performance.

I think that focusing so much on the competitive, MLG, HCL, etc … has ended up killing some of that carefree fun that we had years ago when we were playing Halo CE. I would like some of that unconcern we had at that time to recover.

And I think a better way to start would be to rethink the usefulness or focus of global statistics in social games away from the competitive, marking the difference between ranked and social.

You’re an example of how most of the average Halo player really is someone who doesn’t care about those stats in social games. But even so, he understands the frustration of having competitive elements introduced into social games.

Something that I see has been repeated a lot in the previous comments is the fact that “I do not care about these statistics”. In other words, people see so little importance, or use, of statistics that they do not represent the actual performance of the player. As they are social games, nobody takes it seriously.

And the few players who use them, they really end up going to the competitive statistics because those are truthful and useful statistics to be able to know the performance of a player.

At this point, what is the use then of social statistics? Why make them 1:1 the same as the competitive stats if they don’t have the same playable scope?

Why not rethink the statistics in a different way that represents more of a social environment, carefree, without so much competitiveness? Why not recover those times where the only thing that mattered was playing and trying to win and not seeing how many games I have won or what my k / d ratio is?

You relieve the pressure of those who just want to have a quiet time playing without being forced to go play against the bots, you take the worry out of those who are going to focus on the challenges, and you eliminate a small problem of recurring toxicity in the forum discussions. I only see advantages.

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Better get good if you are so concerned about other people seeing the caliber of player that you are. Stats don’t matter, enjoy the game. I’ll 2-16 trying out keyboard and mouse multiple games and that’s fine. Because nobody really cares about what you are doing. Just like going to a public gym and thinking everybody is looking at you but in reality nobody is looking at you at all. Just enjoy the game and stop suggesting them to take away content from the game to hide your insecurities.

4 Likes
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Casual still has background MMR for matchmaking purposes, most games do this. Now while this is typically just using win rate as well as top half/bottom half placement (Depending on how a studio does calculations), there is also a lot of meta data they use for research reasons.

That data is also useful and interesting to the players, which is an easy retention thing. “Here use the Waypoint/Uplay/etc app to see your stats” is a smart option for people.

The way I look at it is, if you don’t like to focus on your stats, then don’t look at them. Because “hiding stats for social” is more of a “do this thing for me”.

Being worried about others is a fun one in R6 Siege as an example. I play in GO4’s outside of casual play in pubs, but when I do hop into ranked and get MVP as bottom fragger, the people who complain are the ones who don’t see the forest for the trees.

It’s not your job to explain yourself to others, when you’re going to encounter plenty of idiots who live or die by their K/D, etc. Just roll with it.

1 Like
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Social needs some sort of player upvote system.

eg. at the end of each game you upvote the three players that you felt contributed most to the game.

Then the only stats the game needs to display (for social) is your winning percentage and the number of upvotes you’ve collected.

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I am disappointed to read this comment. Up to this point I thought my point was understood, and a healthy debate was taking place on the matter. But I suppose there always has to be an unpleasant person appearing who causes the first touch and does not contribute anything.

  • What was written at the beginning is a dramatization, it does not represent me.

  • The issue does not revolve around others seeing your statistics and feeling bad about it, you have not understood anything I have written or where my opinion goes.

I have taken care to explain in an extensive and detailed way so that it is understood that my suggestion is to rethink the use that can be given to global statistics. To focus on a use that is really useful for the player and invite them to visit Waypoint to review them.

The comparison does not apply. It is not even close to what is being talked about.

Have at least the education to understand what is being talked about and what are the issues that are exposed before saying these types of comments. Or improve your reading comprehension first.

The situation is not to remove the global statistics in social games and do nothing. As they are implemented right now we could eliminate them and it would not change anything because their real use does not exist. They have no value or contribute anything by having competitive statistics. A possible best use for them should be reconsidered.

You are focusing exclusively on the minor complaint towards “player frustration” with these statistics and you are ignoring the fact that I have been explaining all this time that the actual use of these statistics is out of place if their focus is towards it competitive, being the same use of the statistics of the classified games, when they are different areas with different conditions.

A player who really needs information about his progression, or how his skill has evolved in the Halo Infinite MP will not use the statistics of the social games because he knows that in them he will not find such information in a true way, in his case he will use the statistics of the games ranked.

I insist, what I want to say is that I believe that global statistics could be used with a different approach than the current one, recover part of that more pure social approach that was had in the time of Halo CE where such statistics did not exist, give it a touch more social, more to connect the players, than to compare them with each other in a competitive way. Statistics where most people say “I don’t care”, “I don’t use them”, “I don’t want them”, they have no real use, they are filler content, badly spent resources that could be better focused.

This is a very good example of what I am talking about. Convert the statistics into a portfolio of the behavior and attitude of the player, of the compliments he has received or if he is a good player who behaves correctly, or is a troll who only knows how to annoy and ruin the game of others.

It makes me sad that people don’t understand where I want to go, and people bother to get the wrong idea. I only ask that before responding to the debate you understand what I mean and try to contribute something to the debate.