We all understand that the challenge-based progression/experience system is, well, disappointing at best. Unfortunately, I’ve realized yet another reason to hate it: double XP. Considering that (at this point) all or most of our experience comes from challenge completion, and that double XP works for a limited amount of real-time, there is now a perverse incentive to edge all your challenges to just-before completion, pop your double XP, and complete them all at once. To do anything else would just be an insanely inefficient WASTE in comparison.
This seems tedious, and I can already imagine myself and other efficiency-minded players growing upset trying to actively avoid completing the last kill or objective in challenges so that we’re able to later complete them all in succession with a double XP token. Is this what you want 343? Do you really want players to, for example, have to go into a game avoiding killing people with headshots, melees, certain guns, etc., or AVOIDING THE OBJECTIVE to edge their challenges as to later maximize the use of their double XP? Because I promise that’s what some people are going to do.
> 2535467341363106;2:
> They absolutely did not. The counting down while not in game should be made illegal. Gears of War 5 has the same -Yoink-.
Scummy as it is, I’m not at all surprised by the real-time specification. it’s pretty much the standard for modern shooters’ XP boosts. GoW, Halo, CoD, you name it. It sucks, but that’s just how it is now I guess.
> 2533274801036271;5:
> > As for the XP boost timers counting down while out of a match, we will be looking at improving this experience post launch.
>
> This quote from their community update should alleviate half your concerns.
> People can play the game how they want, many will with or without challenges, with or without double EXP.
My concerns don’t lie at all with the real-time boosts, although it doesn’t help. The problem lies with challenge-based experience and its effects on how many people will use the experience boosts. You’re right, people can and will play the game how they want, meaning I can definitely see people doing exactly what I described in my original post.
> 2533274855842880;6:
> > 2533274801036271;5:
> > > As for the XP boost timers counting down while out of a match, we will be looking at improving this experience post launch.
> >
> > This quote from their community update should alleviate half your concerns.
> > People can play the game how they want, many will with or without challenges, with or without double EXP.
>
> My concerns don’t lie at all with the real-time boosts, although it doesn’t help. The problem lies with challenge-based experience and it’s effects on how many people will use the experience boosts. You’re right, people can and will play the game how they want, meaning I can definitely see people doing exactly what I described in my original post.
ok so? People are not patient enough to do this in mass and those that do really wont have that much of an affect on others. People ignore objectives REGARDLESS of there being challenges. People team kill and throw stuff REGARDLESS of there being challenges. The vast majority of players wont be doing this just like the vast majority dont play as mentioned. This isnt going to be a plaguing issue, especially since none of the BP is timed. Sure people can get through it quicker, but they are not pressured to abuse systems in order to do so given the expiration of the pass.
I’m actually kinda sad after reading the latest inside infinite. I’m starting to realize my most cynical views on how they 'd monetize this game might be coming true. The only parts of my fears and concerns that haven’t been confirmed true yet is how they’ll plan to utilize the in game “Store/CR” and if the battle pass/first 3 seasons battle passes (3 because of the delay to forge, hence season 3 being when the full game is made available to people who paid for it.) will be included with the purchase of the game via physical or digital copy.
> 2533274840624875;7:
> > 2533274855842880;6:
> > > 2533274801036271;5:
> > > > As for the XP boost timers counting down while out of a match, we will be looking at improving this experience post launch.
> > >
> > > This quote from their community update should alleviate half your concerns.
> > > People can play the game how they want, many will with or without challenges, with or without double EXP.
> >
> > My concerns don’t lie at all with the real-time boosts, although it doesn’t help. The problem lies with challenge-based experience and it’s effects on how many people will use the experience boosts. You’re right, people can and will play the game how they want, meaning I can definitely see people doing exactly what I described in my original post.
>
> ok so? People are not patient enough to do this in mass and those that do really wont have that much of an affect on others. People ignore objectives REGARDLESS of there being challenges. People team kill and throw stuff REGARDLESS of there being challenges. The vast majority of players wont be doing this just like the vast majority dont play as mentioned. This isnt going to be a plaguing issue, especially since none of the BP is timed. Sure people can get through it quicker, but they are not pressured to abuse systems in order to do so given the expiration of the pass.
What? Let me get this straight - your point is that there will always be some people who don’t play the game as intended (duh, true for any game), so developers shouldn’t even try and prevent it?? Seriously, lmao?
Anyone who gives it an ounce of thought will realize they can get literally 5 times the use out of their tokens if they abuse this system, and the fact that the system is abusable in the first place should be considered a problem. Perverse incentives like this shouldn’t exist in a PvP multiplayer game. It’s unintended and unnecessary.
> 2535424370857016;9:
> > 2533274840624875;7:
> > > 2533274855842880;6:
> > > > 2533274801036271;5:
> > > > > As for the XP boost timers counting down while out of a match, we will be looking at improving this experience post launch.
> > > >
> > > > This quote from their community update should alleviate half your concerns.
> > > > People can play the game how they want, many will with or without challenges, with or without double EXP.
> > >
> > > My concerns don’t lie at all with the real-time boosts, although it doesn’t help. The problem lies with challenge-based experience and it’s effects on how many people will use the experience boosts. You’re right, people can and will play the game how they want, meaning I can definitely see people doing exactly what I described in my original post.
> >
> > ok so? People are not patient enough to do this in mass and those that do really wont have that much of an affect on others. People ignore objectives REGARDLESS of there being challenges. People team kill and throw stuff REGARDLESS of there being challenges. The vast majority of players wont be doing this just like the vast majority dont play as mentioned. This isnt going to be a plaguing issue, especially since none of the BP is timed. Sure people can get through it quicker, but they are not pressured to abuse systems in order to do so given the expiration of the pass.
>
> What? Let me get this straight - your point is that there will always be some people who don’t play the game as intended (duh, true for any game), so developers shouldn’t even try and prevent it?? Seriously, lmao?
>
> Anyone who gives it an ounce of thought will realize they can get literally 5 times the use out of their tokens if they abuse this system, and the fact that the system is abusable in the first place should be considered a problem. Perverse incentives like this shouldn’t exist in a PvP multiplayer game. It’s unintended and unnecessary.
No where did I say that. I said that the OP thinks this is going to cause it. It wont cause people do it regardless and given the lack of urgency and or patience among players, they the vast majority wont be trying to abuse the system. The scenario in which OP is discussing is an outliar scenario at most, making it essentially irrelevant to the overall population.
Also, ALL systems are abusable in one way or another. The main issue with timers isnt their existence with challenges. Its the lack of control players have regarding the effectiveness of them. Simply changing the boost to be used on a certain amount of challenges would eliminate OPs issues and address the lack of control players have. Again though, this is an outliar scenario that most players wont be doing. How do I know this? Cause most people stay within the lines. Some take short cuts, but a vast majority dont. Especially given how much resistance this path requires (personal player will to essentially play in 1 way at a time and keep track of every challenge to the point fof not going over on any). It requires too much micro management for the average player, so they wont do it.
> 2535424370857016;9:
> > 2533274840624875;7:
> > > 2533274855842880;6:
> > > > 2533274801036271;5:
> > > > > As for the XP boost timers counting down while out of a match, we will be looking at improving this experience post launch.
> > > >
> > > > This quote from their community update should alleviate half your concerns.
> > > > People can play the game how they want, many will with or without challenges, with or without double EXP.
> > >
> > > My concerns don’t lie at all with the real-time boosts, although it doesn’t help. The problem lies with challenge-based experience and it’s effects on how many people will use the experience boosts. You’re right, people can and will play the game how they want, meaning I can definitely see people doing exactly what I described in my original post.
> >
> > ok so? People are not patient enough to do this in mass and those that do really wont have that much of an affect on others. People ignore objectives REGARDLESS of there being challenges. People team kill and throw stuff REGARDLESS of there being challenges. The vast majority of players wont be doing this just like the vast majority dont play as mentioned. This isnt going to be a plaguing issue, especially since none of the BP is timed. Sure people can get through it quicker, but they are not pressured to abuse systems in order to do so given the expiration of the pass.
>
> What? Let me get this straight - your point is that there will always be some people who don’t play the game as intended (duh, true for any game), so developers shouldn’t even try and prevent it?? Seriously, lmao?
>
> Anyone who gives it an ounce of thought will realize they can get literally 5 times the use out of their tokens if they abuse this system, and the fact that the system is abusable in the first place should be considered a problem.
>
> "Perverse incentives like this shouldn’t exist in a PvP multiplayer game. It’s unintended and unnecessary."
**^**This is why its even possible to do what was pointed out by OP, “It’s Unintended”. They literally recreated a significant amount of the multiplayer system as a whole to make it not only an additional but a Primary source of profits for this game, and the only way it would work was to fundamentally change and or cut core features of the game’s multiplayer.
This xp boost thing is just a small unintended side effect of a larger overarching problem in this games new profit system.
Personally I wish they just charged more for the game and made a more expensive battle pass/dlc and did not have any microtransactions, as they always hurt games and are greedy.
Okay. I’ve been rather peaceable with 343i’s decisions, but I can’t let the live-timer double XP depletion fly by without me expressing resentment.
I won’t go as far as calling it an underhanded move or anything like that, but it’s either a severely unintelligent design choice or a deliberate attempt to push demand for boosters. It just so happens that the whole point behind such a consumable is for people to buy them en masse, so while this makes sense logically in a messed up sort of way, I would no doubt consider it consumer-hostile. You don’t need them, but knowing that they’re doing this is off-putting.
> 2535472923259036;12:
> Okay. I’ve been rather peaceable with 343i’s decisions, but I can’t let the live-timer double XP depletion fly by without me expressing resentment.
>
> I won’t go as far as calling it an underhanded move or anything like that, but it’s either a severely unintelligent design choice or a deliberate attempt to push demand for boosters. It just so happens that the whole point behind such a consumable is for people to buy them en masse, so while this makes sense logically in a messed up sort of way, I would no doubt consider it consumer-hostile. You don’t need them, but knowing that they’re doing this is off-putting.
> “rest assured that there are hundreds of unique items in store for Season One”
This is from the inside infinite update, Keep in mind the battle pass is 100 tiers and not all the tiers will include customization content. that would leave capstone challenges and fractures for additional content. Capstone is 1 per week for 3 months which would roughly be 12 items. Fractures are 20 tier “event pass” unlockable for a week out of each month during that season, maybe they do 2 of these per season (unsure).
100 tier battle pass - 40 tiers in 2 (*assuming) fractures - 12 for capstone challenges142 is not “HundredS”
This brings me to the conclusion that in the in-game “Store” there will be a tremendous amount of microtransactions available. I pray that I’m wrong, but the greed in this type of system is real.
> 2533274833380004;13:
> > 2535472923259036;12:
> > Okay. I’ve been rather peaceable with 343i’s decisions, but I can’t let the live-timer double XP depletion fly by without me expressing resentment.
> >
> > I won’t go as far as calling it an underhanded move or anything like that, but it’s either a severely unintelligent design choice or a deliberate attempt to push demand for boosters. It just so happens that the whole point behind such a consumable is for people to buy them en masse, so while this makes sense logically in a messed up sort of way, I would no doubt consider it consumer-hostile. You don’t need them, but knowing that they’re doing this is off-putting.
>
>
>
> > “rest assured that there are hundreds of unique items in store for Season One”
>
> This is from the inside infinite update, Keep in mind the battle pass is 100 tiers and not all the tiers will include customization content. that would leave capstone challenges and fractures for additional content. Capstone is 1 per week for 3 months which would roughly be 12 items. Fractures are 20 tier “event pass” unlockable for a week out of each month during that season, maybe they do 2 of these per season (unsure).
> - 100 tier battle pass - 40 tiers in 2 (*assuming) fractures - 12 for capstone challenges142 is not “HundredS”
>
> This brings me to the conclusion that in the in-game “Store” there will be a tremendous amount of microtransactions available. I pray that I’m wrong, but the greed in this type of system is real.
Your missing a few places:
Weekly Ultimate Rewards (capstone) - Seasonal Battle Pass rewards (both free and premium tracks) - Fracture Events - i.e. the “Yoroi” / Samurai armor (20 items roughly as mentioned) - Special or Seasonal Events - i.e. a special nameplate commemorating a real-world event, earning a Unicorn nameplate during a 343 Playdate, etc. (these are outside of the fractures and would include holiday stuff, name plates and skins. Similar to what they do now for things like pride month and stuff) - Partnership and promotional items - i.e. Mega Construx codes or Rockstar Energy Drinks (self explanatory though also remember they stated these expire so they would add them into the game. As of now, we dont know how that will look) - Skill Ranks – achieving a specific Skill ranking/tier for a season will award a unique cosmetic item (not sure what this is referring to but maybe something along the lines of “get 100 headshots” ow whatever) - Xbox Game Pass Ultimate Perks - In- game store purchases - Halo Infinite Campaign - some unique Multiplayer cosmetics are rewarded for various accomplishments within the Campaign Overall point is there are a few additional areas, 3 of which are external/paid (I guess 3.5 if you include the paid BP). I would expect a BULK of the stuff to be coatings and nameplates with the more meaty stuff (armor) being more player driven. I expect the store to possess the boosters and coating bundles.
We dont know their plans and if we agree on the math (I do with some reasonable room for error given we dont know the specifics) then they can easily reach 200+ with all these avenues. That is techincally hundreds but I also dont ever put weight into those claims or really care about quantity.
> 2533274840624875;14:
> > 2533274833380004;13:
> > > 2535472923259036;12:
> > > Okay. I’ve been rather peaceable with 343i’s decisions, but I can’t let the live-timer double XP depletion fly by without me expressing resentment.
> > >
> > > I won’t go as far as calling it an underhanded move or anything like that, but it’s either a severely unintelligent design choice or a deliberate attempt to push demand for boosters. It just so happens that the whole point behind such a consumable is for people to buy them en masse, so while this makes sense logically in a messed up sort of way, I would no doubt consider it consumer-hostile. You don’t need them, but knowing that they’re doing this is off-putting.
> >
> >
> >
> > > “rest assured that there are hundreds of unique items in store for Season One”
> >
> > This is from the inside infinite update, Keep in mind the battle pass is 100 tiers and not all the tiers will include customization content. that would leave capstone challenges and fractures for additional content. Capstone is 1 per week for 3 months which would roughly be 12 items. Fractures are 20 tier “event pass” unlockable for a week out of each month during that season, maybe they do 2 of these per season (unsure).
> > - 100 tier battle pass - 40 tiers in 2 (*assuming) fractures - 12 for capstone challenges142 is not “HundredS”
> >
> > This brings me to the conclusion that in the in-game “Store” there will be a tremendous amount of microtransactions available. I pray that I’m wrong, but the greed in this type of system is real.
>
> Your missing a few places:
>
>
> - Weekly Ultimate Rewards (capstone) - Seasonal Battle Pass rewards (both free and premium tracks) - Fracture Events - i.e. the “Yoroi” / Samurai armor (20 items roughly as mentioned) - Special or Seasonal Events - i.e. a special nameplate commemorating a real-world event, earning a Unicorn nameplate during a 343 Playdate, etc. (these are outside of the fractures and would include holiday stuff, name plates and skins. Similar to what they do now for things like pride month and stuff) - Partnership and promotional items - i.e. Mega Construx codes or Rockstar Energy Drinks (self explanatory though also remember they stated these expire so they would add them into the game. As of now, we dont know how that will look) - Skill Ranks – achieving a specific Skill ranking/tier for a season will award a unique cosmetic item (not sure what this is referring to but maybe something along the lines of “get 100 headshots” ow whatever) - Xbox Game Pass Ultimate Perks - In- game store purchases - Halo Infinite Campaign - some unique Multiplayer cosmetics are rewarded for various accomplishments within the CampaignOverall point is there are a few additional areas, 3 of which are external/paid (I guess 3.5 if you include the paid BP). I would expect a BULK of the stuff to be coatings and nameplates with the more meaty stuff (armor) being more player driven. I expect the store to possess the boosters and coating bundles.
>
> We dont know their plans and if we agree on the math (I do with some reasonable room for error given we dont know the specifics) then they can easily reach 200+ with all these avenues. That is techincally hundreds but I also dont ever put weight into those claims or really care about quantity.
You’re right, my b. Agreed, and I hope so. Like I said I pray I’m wrong, I love Halo - legit started with CE when I was like 6 - and its always been my favorite title. I’ve just started giving things a different look since Halo 5 and seeing how other titles have been monetizing their games, not to mention the rumored budget for infinite, overall I’m just more skeptical now.
Thanks for catching that for me though, it gave me of a sigh of relief.
Upon further thought and after reading comments, this problem can be easily remedied in a few ways:
XP boosts apply only to match-based XP (not challenges) - this is assuming the system is even altered to include match-based XP in the first place and that it’s significant enough to be boosted. This is how XP boosts function in most other FPS.
XP boosts can be applied to a number of selected challenges as opposed to being time-based - this also avoids the real-time boost timer dilemma.
Heavily altering the XP system as to where a safe portion of level progression comes from match-based XP (therefore making challenge-based experience a less focal portion). XP boosts apply to both.
Personally, #3 is my preference, although #2 is the easiest solution & #1 is the industry standard.