OKAY! This is a serious problem in the Halo CoOp … Frame syncing, did you ever try to beat the campaign with your friends over XBL and just get 2-4 seconds delay? Yeah that sucks and it seriously CAN NOT BE IN HALO 4! We don’t care if there’s a bit of bullet delay or some shots don’t register, we want to have a fun CoOp Halo 4 experience with our friends …And be able to react to anything that happens around us.
> OKAY! This is a serious problem in the Halo CoOp … Frame syncing, did you ever try to beat the campaign with your friends over XBL and just get 2-4 seconds delay? Yeah that sucks and it seriously CAN NOT BE IN HALO 4! We don’t care if there’s a bit of bullet delay or some shots don’t register, we want to have a fun CoOp Halo 4 experience with our friends …And be able to react to anything that happens around us.
That’s an issue with your connect more than anything. Due to the way Campaign has to work, there will likely always be issues if everyone doesn’t have a solid connection
This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making non-constructive posts.
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MUST WRITE IN CAPS FOR VERY SRS PROBLEM!
There has to be some way to fix the problem because sometimes I try to play coop campaign or firefight and it is unplayable.
Solution: don’t use Tesco Broadband.
Yeah dude, that’s a personal connection problem.
Well my connection works fine for Multiplayer. It only happens in firefight and coop campaign.
It’s a problem for me as well, because I’ve never been able to pull the host… Really, never ever ever…
But my dad doesn’t want to change from provider or whatever, because he has no problems with it (of course not, he doesn’t play fricking games…). And now our neighbours are sharing our internet as well. (They will only live here for 6 months, so my dad told them we could share our internet. -_-)
> It’s a problem for me as well, because I’ve never been able to pull the host… Really, never ever ever…
>
> But my dad doesn’t want to change from provider or whatever, because he has no problems with it (of course not, he doesn’t play fricking games…). And now our neighbours are sharing our internet as well. (They will only live here for 6 months, so my dad told them we could share our internet. -_-)
Yikes mate :O. I’m really lucky with my connection :D. Down speed 15mbps. Up speed 0.67 mbps. 27ms ping.
> Well my connection works fine for Multiplayer. It only happens in firefight and coop campaign.
In multiplayer someone else gets host and hence anyone can get lag no matter connection, I myself got a dedicated 100/100Mbit but Halo tends to lag quite often (open NAT) while other games, with players close to me or on Dedicated Servers, are smoother then SP campaign 
Have you got open nat?
Make sure to turn off the computer/youtube/any (legal) downloads you got, same goes for your friends. And above all, used wired instead of wireless if possible! Wireless = lag, simple as that.
> It’s a problem for me as well, because I’ve never been able to pull the host… Really, never ever ever…
>
> But my dad doesn’t want to change from provider or whatever, because he has no problems with it (of course not, he doesn’t play fricking games…). And now our neighbours are sharing our internet as well. (They will only live here for 6 months, so my dad told them we could share our internet. -_-)
They must have 2WIRE like my friend has. He has great connection until his neihbors go online and steal connection from his router. Its part of the reason why we had lousy Skype connection when I video chatted with him.
Frame synching is necessary because network errors break Campaign and Firefight. The game can’t correct errors in Campaign because the AI are very fragile, and depend on a ton of data that can’t just be sent from console to console on a whim.
Network errors become possible when consoles send data too slowly, or when that data never gets to where it’s meant to. The only way to prevent these errors with 100% certainty is to use a synchronous lockstep networking model – frame synching, in other words.
If even a single error slips by, then you get desyncs. Best case scenario is, someone immediately drops from the game and can’t rejoin. Worst case scenario? People start dropping dead for no apparent reason, because an AI is attacking them on their console, but is on the opposite side of the map on your console.
So why isn’t this a problem in Multiplayer? Simple: no AI, and almost no map scripting.
> It’s a problem for me as well, because I’ve never been able to pull the host… Really, never ever ever…
Host isn’t a factor in Campaign or Firefight because of the netcode. If one console slows down, all of them – including the host – slow down so that the lagger can catch up.
Edited by Moderator - Please do not make nonconstructive posts.
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.
Well, it’s not 2-4 seconds I was exaggerating… It’s a 1 second delay but still a pain in the buttux! But I admit I DO download very illegal illegal bad no no stuff …Very illegal …Drugs? Yes! I download marijuana illegally (That was for Grumbledock)
> Frame synching is necessary because network errors break Campaign and Firefight. The game can’t correct errors in Campaign because the AI are very fragile, and depend on a ton of data that can’t just be sent from console to console on a whim.
>
> Network errors become possible when consoles send data too slowly, or when that data never gets to where it’s meant to. The only way to prevent these errors with 100% certainty is to use a synchronous lockstep networking model – frame synching, in other words.
>
> If even a single error slips by, then you get desyncs. Best case scenario is, someone immediately drops from the game and can’t rejoin. Worst case scenario? People start dropping dead for no apparent reason, because an AI is attacking them on their console, but is on the opposite side of the map on your console.
>
> So why isn’t this a problem in Multiplayer? Simple: no AI, and almost no map scripting.
>
>
>
> > It’s a problem for me as well, because I’ve never been able to pull the host… Really, never ever ever…
>
> Host isn’t a factor in Campaign or Firefight because of the netcode. If one console slows down, all of them – including the host – slow down so that the lagger can catch up.
It doesn’t matter. They need to find a solution that works.
I don’t get what they’re doing. Aren’t they just sending player info? Why would AI info stuff need to be sent considering that’s solely dependent on player input?
Like AI positions and whatever shouldn’t be necessary to send since that is solely dependent on player actions, and if the players act equally, the resultant actions should be equal for the AI?
> > It’s a problem for me as well, because I’ve never been able to pull the host… Really, never ever ever…
> >
> > But my dad doesn’t want to change from provider or whatever, because he has no problems with it (of course not, he doesn’t play fricking games…). And now our neighbours are sharing our internet as well. (They will only live here for 6 months, so my dad told them we could share our internet. -_-)
>
> Yikes mate :O. I’m really lucky with my connection :D. Down speed 15mbps. Up speed 0.67 mbps. 27ms ping.
that up speed is really slow for games you should at least have 1-2 mbps up i have 3.54 mbs up and 21.46 down
> I don’t get what they’re doing. Aren’t they just sending player info? Why would AI info stuff need to be sent considering that’s solely dependent on player input?
>
> Like AI positions and whatever shouldn’t be necessary to send since that is solely dependent on player actions, and if the players act equally, the resultant actions should be equal for the AI?
If the players act equally, yes. But if one guy experiences a desync due to lag, then the players are no longer acting equally on his console, so a different series of events occurs for him. As far as his console is concerned, the other players aren’t moving or are running in a straight line, and that changes what happens.
When this happens in Multiplayer, it’s fixed by sending the lagger an update. That update contains all relevant game data – positions and statuses of living players, locations of objective items, et cetera. Non-critical information, such as the precise locations of corpses and bloodstains, isn’t sent.
However, everything is critical in Campaign. The AI react to corpses on the ground, commenting on them or vindictively emptying clips into them. Furthermore, there’s a lot more data to send: the behavior trees for the AI, which behaviors within these trees are currently in use, the paths selected by the pathfinding algorithm, what lines of dialogue the NPCs are currently saying, any randomization that may be present in the AI routines, and anything related to map scripting (variables, cutscene camera state, revocations of a player’s control, et cetera). That’s just way too much data to send all at once, but it would have to be sent all at once.
…Unless the game takes measures to ensure that there is never a desync.
> > Frame synching is necessary because network errors break Campaign and Firefight. The game can’t correct errors in Campaign because the AI are very fragile, and depend on a ton of data that can’t just be sent from console to console on a whim.
> >
> > Network errors become possible when consoles send data too slowly, or when that data never gets to where it’s meant to. The only way to prevent these errors with 100% certainty is to use a synchronous lockstep networking model – frame synching, in other words.
> >
> > If even a single error slips by, then you get desyncs. Best case scenario is, someone immediately drops from the game and can’t rejoin. Worst case scenario? People start dropping dead for no apparent reason, because an AI is attacking them on their console, but is on the opposite side of the map on your console.
> >
> > So why isn’t this a problem in Multiplayer? Simple: no AI, and almost no map scripting.
> >
> >
> >
> > > It’s a problem for me as well, because I’ve never been able to pull the host… Really, never ever ever…
> >
> > Host isn’t a factor in Campaign or Firefight because of the netcode. If one console slows down, all of them – including the host – slow down so that the lagger can catch up.
>
> It doesn’t matter. They need to find a solution that works.
>
> I don’t get what they’re doing. Aren’t they just sending player info? Why would AI info stuff need to be sent considering that’s solely dependent on player input?
>
> Like AI positions and whatever shouldn’t be necessary to send since that is solely dependent on player actions, and if the players act equally, the resultant actions should be equal for the AI?
Um, lets see, maybe because if you don’t sync the AI across the board with every one, one person’s Xbox could have 3 Elites wielding swords coming at him, another person could have no elites, the 3rd person could have 1 elite and a few grunts.
You can’t just say “I don’t care, as long as they fix the problem”, and expect it to magically be fixed. Even if this was day one of development, the problem will still be there, unless you have a networking wizard who knows how to get every thing to sync well.
Hmm interesting problem. But yes, as an engineering/cs student, I definitely say yes, find a solution, lol. I expect it to be fixed. Especially since Spartan Ops is a big selling point, and is co-op focused.
I’m not about to pose a solution now without any numbers. To say that what they have is the best they can do as some forum people are saying is a laughable remark. To say it’s an interesting problem is definitely true.
Balancing AI updating, momentary pausing, and smoothing prediction algorithms is what i see from a basic perspective. The optimization of this is hard problem, probably more so than anything because of the variability of player connections and what this delay actually is.
I mean, perhaps for spartan ops in particular, they can start by making maps more static, if that’s preferable.
> > I don’t get what they’re doing. Aren’t they just sending player info? Why would AI info stuff need to be sent considering that’s solely dependent on player input?
> >
> > Like AI positions and whatever shouldn’t be necessary to send since that is solely dependent on player actions, and if the players act equally, the resultant actions should be equal for the AI?
>
> If the players act equally, yes. But if one guy experiences a desync due to lag, then the players are no longer acting equally on his console, so a different series of events occurs for him. As far as his console is concerned, the other players aren’t moving or are running in a straight line, and that changes what happens.
>
> When this happens in Multiplayer, it’s fixed by sending the lagger an update. That update contains all relevant game data – positions and statuses of living players, locations of objective items, et cetera. Non-critical information, such as the precise locations of corpses and bloodstains, isn’t sent.
>
> However, everything is critical in Campaign. The AI react to corpses on the ground, commenting on them or vindictively emptying clips into them. Furthermore, there’s a lot more data to send: the behavior trees for the AI, which behaviors within these trees are currently in use, the paths selected by the pathfinding algorithm, what lines of dialogue the NPCs are currently saying, any randomization that may be present in the AI routines, and anything related to map scripting (variables, cutscene camera state, revocations of a player’s control, et cetera). That’s just way too much data to send all at once, but it would have to be sent all at once.
>
> …Unless the game takes measures to ensure that there is never a desync.
How come other game manage to have working campaign modes with little/no sync problems?
The AI in Halo might be good, but is it really that much better then al other AIs?
Or is it just the coding that’s heavy, the enemies have to many “options”/responses to choose from?
Shear numbers wouldn’t be a problem either imo, especially not Reach, since the enemy numbers are quite small…then again, I ask out of curiosity not knowledge/trying to be smart. Just curious 
Thats why I play with my best friend. We both live in the same town and use the same internet provider.
We never experience any problems during Campaign or Firefight.