I’ve noticed the Halo forums today have become a battleground as everyone scrambles to contribute their opinion on what makes Halo good, as well as what makes it bad. A lot of “If only…” declarations get thrown around and most anymore seem to center around the inclusion or omission of sprint and armor load-outs. I find a problem with these arguments however, in that for every decision made in this fashion there is the exclusion of another potential fan base.
Before shooters were complicated with added mechanics, Halo functioned with social and competitive gamers existing fairly harmoniously. It was a fairly easy task. Ranked matches had BR starts. Social matches had no rank and were allowed more liberty with imbalanced game types. You had fun and competition with a clear bifurcation. The two play styles even had their own headers, and their was peace.
However with the rush to modernize Halo it seems the designers did not yet fully grasp which mechanics played well to each style and much of that separation was lost; confusing and frustrating players. For much of Halo’s life if you jumped into a game type that was Team Slayer you were entering a coliseum of sorts, where fun was measured in Headshots, TSK, and K/D spreads. Team Slayer was Halo’s flagship game type and it was connotatively synonymous with competition. If you wanted to dual wield SMGs you needed to get your but into Social Slayer.
But Halo 4 did not launch with a Team Slayer and Social Slayer; it launched with “Infinity Slayer”, muddling the two together and disenfranchising all. I would go so far as to say that Halo 4 lost social players in equal parts to competitive players for the same reason. Just as nobody wants a competitive game with someone spamming jetpacks and sprint, no social gamer wants to endure a game with competitive wolves. The two experiences are, by their nature, polar opposites and should never have been tossed into the same game.
To 343’s credit they have at times tried catering certain hoppers to competitive play and they did make a ranking system, but neither of these were implemented to a clear and full extent, and by the time they were implemented much of the hype keeping Halo 4’s population up had deflated to irreversible numbers. If 343 can get Halo back to this separation of ranked and social gaming it should not matter if sprint is kept in or left out. There are many fun things that can be done with armor abilities and sprint. But the single most important thing they can do is interface matchmaking properly. Before you click Team Slayer, before you click CTF, Actionsack, Griffball, Lone Wolf, et cetera, there needs to be a list with two options (no flashy words or lipstick terms): “Ranked” and “Social”
That’s my piece. Peace.
I agree. I hate loadouts sprint, and armor abilities. I prefer br starts with dmr unless it is on the map for pickup. If this was ranked and all the other stuff was the unbanked, I would be completely fine with that. To me, halo has 2 strong yet very different communities, why not satisfy both?
It is as if they tried so hard to become a success they forgot what made the previous Halo’s a success. (Not counting Reach)
Ranked playlist & social playlist have my seal of approval.
I actually do not understand when this notion has developed that ranked and social are, were or have to be two different Halo games.
Back then in H3 I remember I’ve played H3 in ranked slayer and I’ve played the same H3 in social slayer.
There were no fundamental gameplay differences between them. Social slayer settings weren’t any less competitive than the ranked slayer settings.
The difference between ranked and social was basically just the atmosphere.
In ranked you found more serious competition and in social you found more relaxed competition but in both you found default H3 what eventually allowed for smooth transitions and switches between them.
Hence all people have actually played and enjoyed the same game (H3) and the only questions you had to ask yourself when deciding between entering ranked or social was: "with what kind of people and mentalities do you want to play this game? Which gaming atmosphere do you prefer or do you want to experience? Serious or relaxed? League or friendly?
In conclusion, the purpose of a ranked and social split in multiplayer is not to give everybody the Halo multiplayer that he or she wants, to provide completely different Halo games within one multiplayer but simply to provide two different atmospheres of one and the same (competitive) multiplayer, so that league gaming and friendly gaming don’t tread on each others feet.
The only difference between “Ranked” and “Social” should be that the latter has Loadouts and the former does. They shouldn’t try to build two different games and split the community between the playlists. We already know Armor Abilities are out from the game entirely, and that we’re getting “Spartan Abilities” (whatever that means) that are available to all and aren’t part of Loadouts. Whether sprint is in or out is yet to be determined (my guess is in), and that should be true for all modes in my opinion. Whatever new mechanics 343i add should appear in both playlists.
> The only difference between “Ranked” and “Social” should be that the latter has Loadouts and the former does. They shouldn’t try to build two different games and split the community between the playlists. We already know Armor Abilities are out from the game entirely, and that we’re getting “Spartan Abilities” (whatever that means) that are available to all and aren’t part of Loadouts. Whether sprint is in or out is yet to be determined (my guess is in), and that should be true for all modes in my opinion. Whatever new mechanics 343i add should appear in both playlists.
Be careful what you wish for. Not all great ideas work in all scenarios.
As for a previous post, I would posit that while there was a difference between Rank and Social, there simply weren’t as many mechanics in the game to make as big a difference as what should be made today. You would never play a ranked slayer game with all dual weapons, but it was a very popular game type in social. Today, however, there are many more mechanics that need to be taken into account. For example, while load-outs could have really fun applications in action sack or casual slayer, it is widely agreed they don’t belong in ranked Halo. That is all I was trying to suggest.
> As for a previous post, I would posit that while there was a difference between Rank and Social, there simply weren’t as many mechanics in the game to make as big a difference as what should be made today. You would never play a ranked slayer game with all dual weapons, but it was a very popular game type in social. Today, however, there are many more mechanics that need to be taken into account. For example, while load-outs could have really fun applications in action sack or casual slayer, it is widely agreed they don’t belong in ranked Halo. That is all I was trying to suggest.
You nonetheless found the default slayer in ranked as well as in social.
Even though dual slayer or rocket slayer weren’t the default slayer gametype they still followed the default principals.
I would however argue that such custom slayer variants would have better fit into a dedicated and separate custom games browser, which Halo has unfortunately been lacking and hence they were put into social.
That certain (default) elements and mechanics do not belong in ranked but belong in social or rather that social can simply neglect/ignore basic aspects like balance or fundamental gameplay concepts like same starts, or the other way around that ranked can simply ignore classes when it is a fundamental gameplay concept, is however a misguided notion and flawed design in my opinion.
Again, the purpose of a ranked/social split is not to provide two different games like ranked being same starts arena shooter and social being class based shooter or ranked being highly competitive and super balanced and social being an unbalanced random chaos, but to provide two different gaming atmosphere of the default (competitive) gameplay.
What has to be taken into account in regards to mechanics, concepts, elements, etc. is that they require enough substance, so they can work on a ranked competitive level just as well as on a social competitive level.
I don’t care if its called ranked or social, I just want a game where I’m with and against people of similar ability as me and where I’m not going to get a torrent of abuse if I mess up
Revised with quote below.
> > As for a previous post, I would posit that while there was a difference between Rank and Social, there simply weren’t as many mechanics in the game to make as big a difference as what should be made today. You would never play a ranked slayer game with all dual weapons, but it was a very popular game type in social. Today, however, there are many more mechanics that need to be taken into account. For example, while load-outs could have really fun applications in action sack or casual slayer, it is widely agreed they don’t belong in ranked Halo. That is all I was trying to suggest.
>
> You nonetheless found the default slayer in ranked as well as in social.
> Even though dual slayer or rocket slayer weren’t the default slayer gametype they still followed the default principals.
> I would however argue that such custom slayer variants would have better fit into a dedicated and separate custom games browser, which Halo has unfortunately been lacking and hence they were put into social.
>
> That certain (default) elements and mechanics do not belong in ranked but belong in social or rather that social can simply neglect/ignore basic aspects like balance or fundamental gameplay concepts like same starts, or the other way around that ranked can simply ignore classes when it is a fundamental gameplay concept, is however a misguided notion and flawed design in my opinion.
> Again, the purpose of a ranked/social split is not to provide two different games like ranked being same starts arena shooter and social being class based shooter or ranked being highly competitive and super balanced and social being an unbalanced random chaos, but to provide two different gaming atmosphere of the default (competitive) gameplay.
>
> What has to be taken into account in regards to mechanics, concepts, elements, etc. is that they require enough substance, so they can work on a ranked competitive level just as well as on a social competitive level.
I could agree with that logic. I think I should be centering my idea around matchmaking hoppers like action-sack and griffball. I still think there could be fun implications for more casual game types. I like the variety that Halo has shown us over the years and I just want it to be a customizable as it can be.
> >
>
> I could agree with that logic. I think I should be centering my idea around matchmaking hoppers like action-sack and griffball. I still think there could be fun implications for more casual game types. I like the variety that Halo has shown us over the years and I just want it to be a customizable as it can be.
Personally, I would even consider the (likely long overdue) implementation of a proper custom games browser aside regular match making, where the devs as well as the community could publicly present their custom gametypes and maps.
Because, like you said, they can definitely be a lot of fun and the interest in playing online custom games is definitely there, to quite some significant extent I’d even say.
I feel that the only difference between Ranked and Social should be the choice for Custom Loadouts. Sprint can stay. I’ve seen the arguments against both and still can not see how they are detrimental (Now watch somebody try to explain it to me). I’ve been playing a lot of Halo 4 lately, more than usual, and the only detriment to gameplay is FOR ME is the PODs (truthfully, if all power weapons were taken from small team matches I would be very happy) and some armor abilities like that -Yoink!- jetpack and hologram.
Another thing I want to see gone are the Overshields and the regen fields.
And if 343 ever brings the power drain back…
> I feel that the only difference between Ranked and Social should be the choice for Custom Loadouts. Sprint can stay. I’ve seen the arguments against both and still can not see how they are detrimental (Now watch somebody try to explain it to me). I’ve been playing a lot of Halo 4 lately, more than usual, and the only detriment to gameplay is FOR ME is the PODs (truthfully, if all power weapons were taken from small team matches I would be very happy) and some armor abilities like that -Yoink!- jetpack and hologram.
>
>
> Another thing I want to see gone are the Overshields and the regen fields.
>
> And if 343 ever brings the power drain back…
Cat and mouse gameplay,run or gun gameplay, slowing gameplay down, upscaled maps (with wide open fields, long corridors, distance between cover is too big:making weapons like AR useless), giving up combat abilities. I’m sure you heard all of these before. You want to explain to me how it is beneficial or how it adds to gameplay?( I’ve only heard that shooters like COD have it and it “feels” better, which is just as much of an argument as me saying “it feels worse”)
I agree with the rest of your post on PODs and armor abilities, no to custom loadouts even in social. I rather have social identical to ranked with the only difference being the incentive to win and the attitudes of the players.
OS and Camo back to power ups and I’m fine with energy drain and regen being equipment
> Cat and mouse gameplay,run or gun gameplay, slowing gameplay down, upscaled maps with wide open fields, long corridors, distance between cover is too big making weapons like AR useless, giving up combat abilities. I’m sure you heard all of these before. You want to explain to me how it is beneficial or how it adds to gameplay?( I’ve only heard that shooters like COD have it and it “feels” better, which is just as much of an argument as me saying “it feels worse”)
>
> I agree with the rest of your post on PODs and armor abilities, no to custom loadouts even in social. I rather have social identical to ranked with the only difference being the incentive to win and the attitudes of the players.
Sigh… I really didn’t really want to get dragged into this conversation for the 100th time. But I guess it is my fault. I did make a comment lol…
Cat and Mouse gameplay suggest that all or most encounters have atleast one party running away. I’ve logged over 11days of Halo 4 MP (i think) and have never seen this cat and mouse gameplay as much as everybody else claims. I’ve been in more cat and mouse encounters in Halo titles without sprint and I played those considerably less.
Now Slowing gameplay down is actually a new one for me. I don’t even know how to respond to this so please tell me how Sprint actually, slows gameplay down.
Maps are bigger, is that necessarily a bad thing? And not all maps have long corridors and open fields. In smaller maps the AR is very effective while bigger maps the BR and DMR are effective.
Can you explain why you say that the distance between covers makes the AR useless?
I can’t say that I want Halo 4’s sprint because of CoD or BF. I owned Halo 4 before I even played a CoD or BF game. I wouldn’t say sprint has benefits as much as I would say adds a different dynamic to the game. A dynamic I believe doesn’t change the game that much as long as it is implemented properly.
I went in to more detail in other threads in the past but I’ve only had 3 hours of rest last night (damn college eating up my time) so I gave you the watered down version…
> Cat and Mouse gameplay suggest that all or most encounters have atleast one party running away. I’ve logged over 11days of Halo 4 MP (i think) and have never seen this cat and mouse gameplay as much as everybody else claims. I’ve been in more cat and mouse encounters in Halo titles without sprint and I played those considerably less.
>
> Now Slowing gameplay down is actually a new one for me. I don’t even know how to respond to this so please tell me how Sprint actually, slows gameplay down.
I can easily say, I have logged only 2 days and have never seen so much Cat and Mouse gameplay ever. Cat and Mouse gameplay is caused because our kill times are not instant and ADS is not there so we don’t have to stop dead in our tracks and stay still to shoot. I also meant slow down combat, not necessarily slow it down, but it definitely does not speed it up.This causes chases and delays in combat, hence slowing the game down because if I shoot first and he initiates a chase, you must sprint as well following him and we both run at the same speed, so it is a pretty long chase at that.
> Maps are bigger, is that necessarily a bad thing? And not all maps have long corridors and open fields. In smaller maps the AR is very effective while bigger maps the BR and DMR are effective.
>
> Can you explain why you say that the distance between covers makes the AR useless? /quote]
> If maps are bigger, to compensate and in order to compensate what is the point, when it does all the things I said above. I also wouldn’t say there are any small maps in H4, there are definitely smaller maps, but all of them are relatively large, compare Haven and Guardian. The AR relies on cover to close distance to use, since the distance between cover is so far away( due to upscaling), that why you see primarily utilities and a lot of long range DMR battles.
>
>
> > I can’t say that I want Halo 4’s sprint because of CoD or BF. I owned Halo 4 before I even played a CoD or BF game. I wouldn’t say sprint has benefits as much as I would say adds a different dynamic to the game. A dynamic I believe doesn’t change the game that much as long as it is implemented properly.
> >
> > I went in to more detail in other threads in the past but I’ve only had 3 hours of rest last night (damn college eating up my time) so I gave you the watered down version…
>
> Sorry, I didn’t mean you exactly. What dynamic are you talking about, I doesn’t add anything and to implement it you must change things things such as kill times. There are reason why games with sprint, have ADS present and have near instant kill times and slow base movement speed.
>
> We are sounding like broken records, I think we should stop here and let others focus on the original thread. I should’ve just said that no sprint in social because we would have two different games, splintering the community where one playlist has entirely different maps than the other.