Season 2: How 343 can Fix the Challenge System (v4.0)

Games Halo Infinite
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Introduction

This proposal details necessary challenge system improvements with minimal programming overhead.

It can be easily implemented and will benefit 343 and the players.

There’s a Summation / TL;DR at the end of the document.

343, thank you for considering this proposal.

Season 2 Changes

Gametype rarity has changed

Strongholds

  • Ranked 18%
  • Quickplay 10%

Oddball

  • Ranked 18%
  • Quickplay 10%
  • Rumble Pit 8%

CTF

  • Big Team Battle 25%
  • Ranked 18%
  • Quickplay 15%

Please Show Your Support!

Click below to support the original proposal on Steam
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2780254276

Consider supporting this proposal here:
Latest Tweet at Jerry Hook
https://twitter.com/SmokedTim/status/1521882415836590081

Latest Tweet at John Junyszek
https://twitter.com/SmokedTim/status/1521882786717908992

Latest Tweet at Brian Jarrard
https://twitter.com/SmokedTim/status/1521883067895459840

Latest Tweet at 343
https://twitter.com/SmokedTim/status/1521883380824313857

Reddit r/halo
https://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/uil6fe/season_2_how_343_can_fix_the_challenge_system_v40/

Reddit r/haloinfinite
https://www.reddit.com/r/haloinfinite/comments/uil6z5/season_2_how_343_can_fix_the_challenge_system_v40/

This Proposal Considers 343’s Objectives and UI Limitations

This proposal considers 343’s motivations and resources.

From a developers perspective the challenge system exists to:

  • Keep players engaged with the game each week.
  • Populate a variety of playlists.
  • Funnel players into the current event.
  • Teach players how to use a variety of weapons/mechanics.
  • Earn revenue through player purchased challenge swaps.

UI Limitations and Non-Invasive solutions

  • This proposal serves as an immediate solution to be implemented with as little developmental overhead as possible.
  • Further Improvements (outside the scope of this proposal) require extensive changes to functionality of the UI, which aren’t feasible at this time.
  • The entirety of this proposal is limited to changing the challenges themselves.
  • Once approved, it could be implemented in less than a day

Player Satisfaction and Enjoyment

This proposal prioritises the preferences of the overwhelming majority of players.

Most players love:

  • Winning.
  • Playing with good teammates, and being incentivised to be a good teammate.
  • Playing with teammates who share a common goal.
  • Being appreciated by their teammates.
  • Focusing on winning, not challenges.
  • Knowing that challenge progression depends entirely on their performance.

Most players hate:

  • Losing.
  • Playing with bad teammates, or being a bad teammate.
  • Playing with teammates who prioritise challenges over team congruence.
  • Being resented by their teammates.
  • Prioritising challenges over winning.
  • Being assigned challenges based on LUCK or RNG.
  • Failing to remember what their challenges are.

CUPS!

CUPS! (Cumulative Unified Player Score!) is the backbone of this proposal.

CUPS! enhances multiplayer by:

  • Incentivising teamwork and prioritizing victory.
  • Populating a variety of playlists.
  • Guaranteeing challenge progression every match.
  • Retaining comparable player engagement.
  • Ensuring players never feel their time is wasted.

CUPS! is easy to implement:

Step 1 - Increase the Cumulative Player Score point requirement.

  • From: 2,000 (normal) / 5,000 (heroic) / 7,500 (legendary).
  • To: 4,000 (normal) / 8,000 (heroic) / 12,000 (legendary).

Step 2 - add Victory and Defeat points.

  • Victory: +2,000 points.
  • Defeat: +1,000 points.

Step 3 - Remove Complete challenges.

  • Players aren’t incentivised to win.
  • These challenges do not encourage teamwork.
  • It may be more efficient to lose deliberately!

Step 4 - Remove Win challenges.

  • There are many factors which ultimately decide which team wins.
  • Players are at the mercy of teammates skill, internet connection, challenge incentives etc.
  • Integrating into CUPS! ensures players try their hardest until the final moment.

RNG

RNG (Random Number Generator) refers to technical probability.

Why RNG challenges need to be changed:

  • Many challenges depend on specific maps or game-types.
  • Players with the wrong map or game-type become frustrated and impatient.
    • Some players prefer to Alt+F4 and risk a ban rather than play challengeless matches.
  • Players feel like they’re wasting their time.
    • The Win 3 Capture the Flag Matches in Ranked challenge took me more than 10 hours.

Recommended Action:

  • Remove from the challenge list.

LUCK

LUCK refers to the rare circumstances needed, or excessive effort taken to achieve challenge requirements.

Why LUCK challenges need to be changed:

  • These challenges may create conflicting team goals.
    • Players with the Shock a set of 4 or More Enemy Spartans with a Single Chain challenge might waste an entire match hoarding shock grenades, hiding, and waiting for the perfect moment.
  • Players may spend multiple matches focused on completing a challenge as their top priority.

Recommended Action:

  • Remove from the challenge list.

REDUNDANT

REDUNDANCY refers to challenges which are obtained by playing the game naturally.

Why REDUNDANT challenges need to be changed:

  • These challenges are essentially participation trophies.
  • These challenges may create conflicting team goals.
    • Players with the Earn Assists challenge might pop an enemies shield, but refrain from killing them.

Recommended Action:

  • Remove from the challenge list.

PRACTICE

PRACTICE refers to challenges which instruct players test weapons, equipment and vehicles.

Why PRACTICE challenges are important:

  • Players learn about how weapons, equipment and vehicles function.
  • Players practice less popular tools.

Why PRACTICE challenges need to be changed:

  • These challenges create conflicting team goals outside of Fiesta.
  • Players focused on the challenge are often a detriment to their team.

Recommended Actions:

  • Isolate PRACTICE challenges to Fiesta.

EVENT

EVENT challenges should be appropriate. For the sake of functionality, only RNG and LUCK challenges should be removed.

Recommended Actions:

  • Remove RNG and LUCK based challenges.
  • Future EVENT challenges should be appropriate.

Time Investment

Current completion time depends on how lucky a player is with their assigned challenges. This proposal guarantees progress every match.

The introduction of CUPS! gives us a completion time of approximately eight hours.

V = Victory points (2,000)
D = Defeat points (1,000)
M = MVP score average (2,000)
S = Standard player score average (1,000)
T = standard match length Time (10 minutes)
N = Normal CUPS! challenge point requirement (4,000)
H = Heroic CUPS! challenge point requirement (8,000)
L = Legendary CUPS! challenge point requirement (12,000)

W = Weekly Points requirement = ( 8 x N ) + ( 8 x H ) + ( 4 x L ) = 144,000
A = Average Points per match = ( V + D ) / 2 + ( M + S ) / 2 = 3,000

X = Average time commitment per week = ( ( W / A ) x T ) / 60 = eight hours

Summation / TL;DR

  • Players should be incentivised to cooperate, for the shared goal of winning every match as a top priority.
  • Challenges which interrupt the shared goal of winning should be removed.
  • The Cumulative Player Score should be improved to become the foundation of the challenge system.
  • My updated challenge system; CUPS! supports all of 343’s objectives, and provide players with a more engaging experience.

Leave Feedback!

It is imperative that I update this guide to reflect the views of the majority of players in accordance with sound epistemology.

If you have suggestions for improvement, or criticisms, please let me know.

If someone from 343 is reading this, thank you for your time, please pass this up the chain to someone with the authority to consider.

8 Likes
2

Great Post! I completely agree with all your suggestions!

Additional I recommend the following in support your ideas:
1) BTB Training Screens while Game Loads
Instead of a canyon with lightning and two sentence yoda-isms, turn the game load into training time on a) how to play the upcoming BTB game, how to use weapons, and how to communicate with your teammates. (I posted these suggestions in another reply earlier today.)

**2) Create a usable team communication mechanism that works for Xbox Console and controller **
Add the ability to push-to-talk and the ability to select to either send a global team text using speech-to-text, or push-to-talk to speak to your teammates.

  1. Fix BTB matchmaking so experienced players are matched with experienced players.

4) AFK/AFG tagging system to QUICKLY replace AFK/AFG/Disconnected Teammates.
After 30 sec, we know if a teammate is needs to be replaced within 30sec because they are disconnected, quit, or are away from the console/pc, after 30 seconds. There should be a way to tag these non-moving zombies & have them quickly replaced with a new player or an AI BOT. They could implement the logic easily - 1) has the player not moved in xxSec & now are tagged. If so, give a warning to press button in 5 sec or be replaced. No button pressed, then replace player.

The current AFK timer is too long, especially on the BTB games I’ve played where there are 3-4 AFK teammates. My teams loses badly and you just want to quit.

4) BTB AI BOT IMPROVEMENTS
a) AI BOT INDICATOR
As players, we need to know we are playing with AI BOTS and how many are on are team. I don’t mind playing with the AI BOTS and sometimes they play better than some players. However, we need to know that they are AI BOTS so we know how to leverage their capabilities and minimize their weaknesses.

**2) Upgrade AI BOTS to help fulfill the OBJECTIVE**

The AI BOTS (again, we need an indicator to know which teammates are AI BOTS) should be able to perform basic objective fulfilling functions like - switch from gun / passenger to the driver seat to drive flag carrier back to base,; pursue the flag carrier to either help defend the carrier as the player makes their way back to base or track down the enemy flag carrier.

For example, I was playing BTB CTF and I’m driving while an apparent AI BOT on the gun. The AI BOT does a good job gunning & we drive to the UNDEFENDED enemy flag. I wait in the drivers side, but the AI BOT stays on the gun. There are NO ENEMIES around to shoot, but the AI BOT stays on the gun. I wait a 2-3 seconds and then get out to get the flag. I take the flag, but the AI BOT STAYS on the gun & does not switch to driver. I jump into the passenger seat, but the AI BOT STAYS on the gun (again, no enemies around). So, I get out to run back to base, but die as the enemy team swarms me from the flag alert.

A beginner would know to get out and get the flag when there is just a driver & gunner and no enemy around. And even a beginner would know to switch to the driver position when the driver gets the flag, especially when the driver jumps in the passenger side.

Thanks for the great suggestions and please, 343, make these improvements! Keep up the great work 343 the game is looking better and better!

Mark

1 Like
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Some feedback:

Win games challenges - Keep them, they incentivize effort to play the game. However do it like MCC does and set it to 3 wins, no more no less. Also they should apply to all gamemodes, not specific ones. In fact, specific mode challenges should be removed.

Luck challenges - Rework them. Instead of remove them, change the challenge to be more of a blanket generalized challenge. “Obtain Medals in PvP games” This will progress the challenge as long as the player earns medals. Multi kills, Killing Sprees, Chain reaction, Whip lash, Bulltrue, Bomber Rifleman Marksman etc. All medals count. Set it to a fair amount like 10 Medals earned.

Redundant challenges - I think it’s fine to keep such challenges in some sort of form, though the specific nature of the challenge indeed tunnel visions players into playing selfishly. Rework it into "Participate in kills"
This will ensure both Kills and Assists in any form will progress the challenge, and players will seek to be more proactive in the games they load into, instead of passively supporting the team.

Practice challenges - Terrible idea. I’d remove them entirely, along with weapon specific kills. Fiesta is already an RNG fest when it comes to weapon spawning. In fact, I have no desire to hunt down a specific weapon to use it at all.

Event challenges - I’d just rework Events at this point. The entire problem with Events is that it suffocates the players by forcing them into grinding one single mode. This is an Event playlist problem.
The best way to solve this is not to rework challenges but how Events are held entirely:

  • Events should revolve around a theme, not a single mode
  • Apply this theme to all gamemodes. For example, a Shotgun event. All players will now spawn with Shotguns for the duration of the Event for selected modes like BTB and Quickplay.
  • Events should also encourage style-participation. Earn more Event score by wearing the Event cosmetic, like an Emblem or Helmet, or even a Fracture Core.
  • Event BP shouldn’t be tier based but Scorebased. Earn 1000 score, advance 1 tier.
1 Like
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CUPS! Reminds me of Titanfall 2’s system a bit.

In TF|2 you earn “Merits” by playing the game. Merits are the in-game currency that can be used to buy cosmetics or permanently unlock loadout items. Merits are earned by:

  • Completing a match
  • Winning a match
  • “Elite Performance” (MVP)
  • Leveling up Weapons, Titans, and Factions
    • Similar to Halo’s Commendation System. Level 1 requires 2 kills, then Level 2 requires 4 kills, and so on. It increments like this for 5-10 levels then resets back to Level 1. It does this until a max level is reached. Titans behave the same way. And Factions only require to play matches with a certain faction leader (announcer) equipped. Completion of a Faction Leader level awards a loot box.
  • Successfully Evacuating (if you lost the match) or Successfully Preventing Evacuation (if you won the match).
    • TF|2 had a sort of mini-game mechanic where the losing team had to “escape the battlefield” after a loss by running to a dropship positioned somewhere around the map. It only stayed for about 30 seconds then teleported away. The winning team either had to kill the losing team (no respawns at this point for either team) or destroy their dropship. The losing team had to protect their dropship long enough for it to take off, but also make sure they were in it when it did. It was a fun, optional, little side game, but was still rewarding to participate in.

I actually think Events Passes should just be simple tasks like “Complete 10 matches” and the Event is complete. People who don’t like the event aren’t going to play it anymore than they have to. So forcing them into more matches would just be unhealthy for the game. The other option would be to just have a login bonus that hands out the item. That would eliminate bad behavior in the name of challenges. Of course that doesn’t necessarily get people to play the mode…

While this is true and definitely happens, I feel that players would be better off just naturally letting assists happen. And if people really want to pursue this challenge, they should just drive and get wheelman assist. They count. Also this challenge (IMO) encourages the use of Plasma guns that are suited for stripping shields, but not necessarily killing (Pulse Carbine, Plasma Pistol, Ravager, Disruptor). I got like 10 assists in a KotH match by just splashing Ravager goo on the hill for my teammates all game.

I really like this. I do think it could be interesting if the challenge were separated into Green , Blue, and Purple medals with appropriate requirements. Green medals are basically rewarded for just playing (Killjoy, Reversal, Marksman, Wingman), Blues are more skillfull, but also very common (Double Kill, Killing Spree, Yard Sale) and others can be forced without too much effort (Hold This, Shot Caller, Grapplejack). Purples are much more difficult, but a few can still happen naturally with quality play (Triple Kill, Killing Frenzy, Grand Slam) and some can be forced (Boom Block, Return to Sender, 360, Combat Evolved). Obviously, I’d much rather go with your method of just combining all of the medals, but this is one of the few instances where separation may not be the worst thing.

Event needs to be separated from the weeklies as a start. You should not have to do weeklies to progress the event (challenge slots) and you should have to do Event Challenges to complete your weeklies (again… Challenge Slots).

F Challenge Slots.

5

Well that’s what I was thinking too, which is why I pitched the Event score system. It removes the need for Event challenges period, and rewards the players for being active and participating, though not restricting them to a playlist which causes burnout. Win win situation.

But realistically, if we didn’t have the dumb Upcoming Weekly system, all these won’t be a problem in the first place.

1 Like
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Yep. Nothing worse that doing a challenge 2, 3, or even 4 time over because it wasn’t queued yet. But some challenges are still genuinely bad.

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I quit the game a few weeks after release from frustration from the challenges, came back 2 days ago to see if season 2 had changed anything up but sadly it hadnt.

I definitely support these changes, they would make me want to come back and play the game regularly every week as it seems like they wouldnt force me out of my way to progress.

I’m surprised this post hasnt gained more traction, it’s definitely the worst thing about halo infinite IMO.

8

This is good, very well thought out, a definite improvement, thank you. I would like to offer another alternative as well, similar to yours, but i can’t create a post (first time i have ever posted i think). Let me know what you think!

Some people like challenges, some do not. Challenges “force” some people to play the game in a way that they do not necessarily want to play, or play gametypes they do not want to play. This is not a good experience, PERIOD, for those people (myself included), i just want to play…and it’s starting to take its toll on my patience.

To me, the easiest way to fix this is to…

-Analyze the data on how long it takes (# of games) all players on average to complete a specific challenge
-Assign that number to each challenge
-Offer the said challenge, but also offer a secondary way of completion, aka “complete x challenge OR play x number of games”

Its simple!
This allows people to play the game the way they want and just play X number of games which would be equivalent to completing the challenge, OR, if they want to , the opportunity to complete the specific challenge and progress FASTER!

I wouldn’t think this addition is complicated, and it allows them to keep the existing challenge system AS IS, and even provide more interesting challenges that require skill for those who, again, want to expedite their progress and just, well, like a challenge! For all the others, we get to play and enjoy the game as well, and this helps the population all around!

To me, its a complete win win!

9

Not to add anymore challenge about winning, it is stressful and not worth it, specially when there is no balance between teams at all.