Lol yeah i always laugh anyway especially when someone tells me freedom of speech doesnt give me the right to criticize the actions and words of an idividual without consequence but one day those passing out large amounts of censorship will be the biggest problem if someone fully does something against them
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I think people are confusing lying with travesties. Sure, this is a travesty.
Imagine comparing stocks to cosmetics in a game.
con-sum-er
a person who purchases goods and services for personal use.
“understanding what motivates consumers is more crucial than ever”
pur-chase
acquire (something) by paying for it; buy.
“Mr. Gill spotted the manuscript at a local auction and purchased it for $1,500”
con-sum-er-ism
the protection or promotion of the interests of consumers.
“the growth of consumerism has led to many organizations improving their service to the customer”
cus-tom-er
a person or organization that buys goods or services from a store or business.
“Mr. Harrison was a regular customer at the Golden Lion”
buy
obtain in exchange for payment.
“he bought me a new dress”
It is strictly tied to monetary spending in the context in which I’m using it. Based on the heavily in-game transaction driven revenue model, I’d confidently say 343 is also going by this definition.
I’ve said in other posts (possibly on a different thread) that I believe when the money stops, development stops. If this Halo fails, I don’t believe it will get fixed or that there will be a next.
As much as I want to take your side on that one, I just don’t think that’s the answer.
In its current state, if I had paid $79.99 for Infinite vs the current free-to-play model I would have uninstalled it and refunded my payment.
They never should have went with this revenue model.
If you pay rent for an apartment and your neighbor’s visitor takes the parking spot that’s included in your rent while you’re away getting groceries, do you not get upset?
You have to park in the guest lot and walk twice as far with your groceries. Not to mention come back out later and move your car into your spot.
My neighbor’s visitor complaining about having to walk twice as far, shouldn’t carry the same weight as my complaint. I pay rent and they don’t.
Same concept.
If you reference the reply above last, there would be no free users had they launched traditionally. There would be no Premium users.
Unless there still was… Not sure how I’d feel if there was a paid membership inside of a paid game.
I guess it would be comparable to World of Warcraft in the sense that you have to purchase the current release of the game, but still pay to play it on a monthly basis. Only it would be optional vs the mandatory World of Warcraft membership.
I would be 100% more willing to do that for Halo than World of Warcraft.
Just not in its current state, like I said.
If that was the case, then all of my responses to non-Premium users would still be the same and just as valid.
You’re not paying for it so you don’t get to use it. If you want to use it then pay for it.
If not being able to use it is bringing you to this constant state of wanting to complain, there’s always the uninstall button. You’ve got $0.00 invested. It’s not like you have to get your moneys worth out of it. You don’t have to play the game. You can play it, it’s free-to-play, but you don’t have to.
I’m not worried about the developers. Regardless of their department.
I’m worried about the person reading the summary email from the SEO team, seeing “Battle Pass” and “Free Content” trending 30x more than real issues and reporting that to who ever they report to. Then that person in turn prioritizing faster season releases, larger seasons, or more/better free content for the seasons in future updates.
As a Premium user I don’t want to see a higher free to premium tier ratio, 50 additional tiers or a 3-month early release of Season 3. I want to see forge, less desync, more ranked playlists or BR start social playlists and the ability to replay a mission without starting from scratch in campaign.
I realize that progress is being made all around in all departments. I’m not worried it won’t get done. I’m worried about the order in which it gets done.
Issues > luxuries.
Free users are contributing in no way to fixing the real issues by helping pay the bills, yet you’re defending them complaining about not having luxuries.
Reference reply #3.
I never said it did, until just now in reply #3.
I made the disctinction that Premium users aren’t complaining about this because it’s a non-issue for consumers.
We’re complaining about the issues that should be the priority while paying for that right to complain.
Imagine missing the entire point of a comparison.
I didn’t even notice this the first time I replied to your post.
This way of thinking is completely incorrect.
The items were 100% free during Season 1 and if you played to unlock them at the time there was no cost involved what so ever monetarily.
Here’s a quote from the HALO INFINITE BATTLE PASS & FREE-TO-PLAY FAQ page on Waypoint, from a snapshot of the website dated November 17 2021. 2 days after launch.
DOES THE BATTLE PASS IN HALO INFINITE EVER EXPIRE?
No. All Battle Passes in Halo Infinite are permanently available and upgrading to the premium Battle Pass is always an option. Season Progress is applied to whichever Battle Pass the player has selected as currently active in-game.
What was posted in November on the matter in their FAQ, verbatim, is “All Battle Passes in Halo Infinite are permanently available and upgrading to the premium Battle Pass is always an option.” which is in no way misleading or dishonest.
Free users can see that all of the Season 1 content is still there. Free and premium tiers alike. It will always be there because it never expires.
Switching which season you’re progressing is a Premium perk. Free players always have the option to upgrade to Premium if they want those perks.
It was never said that free players would have the same perks that Premium players would have.
Where is the lie?
Where is the false advertising?
What mislead you- The lack of distinction between free and Premium players?
I thought we didn’t like that… I thought we were sensitive about being made to feel lesser because we’re free players.
https://web.archive.org/web/20211117171810/https://support.halowaypoint.com/hc/en-us/articles/4408373413268-Halo-Infinite-Battle-Pass-Free-to-Play-FAQ
We can even compare to what’s posted, on the same page, at this very second.
DOES THE BATTLE PASS IN HALO INFINITE EVER EXPIRE?
No. All Battle Passes in Halo Infinite are permanently available and upgrading to the premium Battle Pass is always an option. Season Progress is applied to whichever Battle Pass the player has selected as currently active in-game.
What changed? Where’s the shadiness everyone is talking about?
Are we ready to admit that we’re mad at our own assumptions yet- that we’re mad because what we thought was going to happen (even though we were never told it would) didn’t happen?
You interpreted the wording the way you wanted to hear it and jumped to the wrong conclusion.
Stop wasting energy on false claims. Stop complaining about the fact that you don’t have something that was never promised to you.
If you really don’t want to pay for Premium in order to unlock free items from Season 1, then don’t. Unlock the free items from Season 2 and do it within the 6-month time frame provided. You’ve got 5 months left.
147 days to be exact.
Without the help of challenges or boosts, disregarding the initial 200 XP a game for your first games of the day, at 100 XP a game and 1000 XP a tier, assuming you’ve made 0 progress as of right now, you need to play 1000 games total.
That’s 15 games a day.
Not every game goes down to the timer. So let’s assume 10 minutes per game. That’s 5 games per hour with a 10 minutes of down time for bathroom breaks, refilling your drink and what ever else.
That’s 3 hours a day.
Factor in challenges and XP boosts, and you could easily cut that time investment in half.
You could get your 5 games worth of XP in 1 game if you have layered challenges. Like getting kills with the assault rifle and kills in Team Slayer, or kills in Team Slayer and player score in Team Slayer. You could triple stack challenges even, if you get a challenge for grenade kills or beatdowns at the same time. You could get 2 or 3 hours worth at once depending on your luck.
And if you have bad luck with challenges, then at the very least, you can do 1 at a time and make that 100 XP game a 300-400 XP game. Do that 3 times and you’ve cut 3 hours down to 1.
There’s no reason to not have it completed in time. Season 1 lasted the same amount of time.
https://support.halowaypoint.com/hc/en-us/articles/4408373413268-Halo-Infinite-Battle-Pass-Free-to-Play-FAQ
343: “No.”
Transparent answer: “That depends if you upgrade to premium or not. But you can always buy it when/if you want to.”
343: All Battle Passes in Halo Infinite are permanently available and upgrading to the premium Battle Pass is always an option.
What 343 should have mentioned: "However, battle passes will ONLY be “permanently available” IF you upgrade to premium. Including the “free” content.
343: Progress is applied to whichever Battle Pass the player has selected as currently active in-game.
What 343 should have mentioned: "But you can ONLY manually select a battle pass which you have paid for."
It isn’t lying. It’s avoiding to tell the whole truth.
What I’m upset about is that we’re not respected enough to get the full picture. I would still see this as a problem if I had finished the pass, and even if I had bought the pass.
And again, I don’t think anyone here was arguing that 6 months was too little time, this can’t be further from the point.
How?
It’s completely reasonable to expect a free item, which had not been already stated to become a paid item in the future, to remain free.
It’s still free…
As long as you pay for the premium content.
/s
Is but one definition of it.
a person or thing that eats or uses something.
“Scandinavians are the largest consumers of rye”
Nope, you took different words, gave their definition nd examples of use and connected a few dots to arrive at your end point.
A customer isn’t always a consumer, and a consumer isn’t always a customer.
A F2P game with microtransactions make those two distinctions shine.
Anyone who downloads and plays a F2P game, is a consumer of the game, while people purchasing items are customers.
That would depend on how big of a potential demographic they have.
You can have a big community willing to spend money, but little income because the product is in a poor shape. If there’s money to potentially make, why wouldn’t they invest?
That’s entirely different from not getting money, and no big community to speak of.
I can half see the point but I can’t see a resemblance.
Yes, I AM annoyed when it happens, when my parking spot is blocked, and has been on numerous occasions by visitors.
But there’s a big difference here.
Everyone, paying or not, is subjected to the exact same gameplay issues. You paying doesn’t grant you any extra benefits someone else can deny or take away from you. We all have the same distance to walk.
i343 listening to non-paying players doesn’t negatively impact you differently than them. If they for some reason omitted to fix desynch, and do something non-Paying players have an issue with, we’d still be subject to the same issues with continued Desynch.
However, and here’s an important part; making non-payers into payers is beneficial for i343, as they already have made you a payer. They’d gladly toss you aside if they could get two more of you by turning players into payers, through appeasing the non-payer crowd. Putting Credits into the Premium tier of the Battlepass, even if it’d mean 10$ for all future BPs, is exactly that. You’re more likely to spend more once you spend a little.
You’d have a hard time doing that in an appartment complex.
Fairly certain performance issues are high on the priority list regardless of Ratio, and doubt the ratio would ever go in favour of non-Gameplay issues considering everyone is having the same gameplay issues, in contrast to a part of “everyone” having payed for some privileges, and have less issues.
“I’m paying and an non-payers should have nothing”
But it is an issue for a part of the consumers.
And that part is also participating in reminding i343 of the gameplay issues, along with other issues they have which others have payed to sidestep.
And yet, the game went F2P due to it being an extremely successful monetary model, no form of feedback service for Infinite is locked for players who have not payed, and, non-paying players still offering feedback in an attempt to get an improved experience which shows dedication, which is something entirely different than “spending money so they can fix it, and get that moneys worth out of it”.
It most certainly is not.
Source: the Battle Pass, in literally every game, by every studio other than 343 pre-Halo Infinite.
You could say that it’s completely reasonable to expect the Season 1 content to disappear the season ends, for free and paid players alike.
You can’t claim that it’s reasonable to expect a Battle Pass to behave differently all of a sudden. Especially for free players.
The unexpected part, is that it does.
In any other game, whether you’re paid or free, the content is gone for good when the clock hits 0:00 to mark the end of the season.
You think it’s completely reasonable to complain that 343 made the content permanently available to those contributing something other than queue times to the game? To expect that free players are given the same luxury?
Simply because there was no disclaimer stating that one day the content wouldn’t be available to free users?
I’d like to know how you came to that conclusion, because that is in no way how the world currently works. Nor has it ever.
When insurance rates are going to increase next time you renew your policy, do they need your permission to increase them? Do you get to say no, and keep your current rates next time you renew? Or do you have to just pay the new price and deal with it or walk away?
Does a company like Walmart need your permission to increase the price of everything in the store by $0.75 to compensate for increased shipping costs due to gas prices? Do you get to say no? Or do you just walk into the store one day to find out that a can of Pepsi is $2.25, instead of the $1.50 you’re used to spending?
How is this way of thinking reasonable in the slightest to you?
I’m genuinely asking.
How else would I explain this? You should tell customers what’s free and what isn’t. It’s called honesty. That’s how you build a playerbase. Be honest with them. Don’t pull crap like this just because other people are doing it.
CoD has their own group of critics so it’s not like this is one isolated thing.
False advertisement might be a common practice in the gaming circle but it doesn’t make it anymore okay.
Is but the only definition that’s relevant.
It’s what’s commonly referred to as freemium.
“Freemium is a business model that offers both complimentary and extra-cost services to users.”
You’re confusing yourself. The freemium (F2P as you call it) business model makes the distinction between users and consumers (aka customers) shine.
It does make distinction between the definitions of consumer. There’s no denying that. But it redefines those not paying as users.
No other definition of consumer is relevant to the discussion, like I said above. Consumer means customer in this case.
Not all users are consumers, but all consumers are users.
Get it?
There isn’t meant to be a resemblance.
It’s the point that matters. Free users complaints (in reference to this thread and this complaint specifically), should not be seen as equal or more important than the complaints of paying consumers.
Easily done with an apartment complex.
Offer to include heat, lights and hot water in the price of the rent for an additional $300, when it only costs $200 because you installed efficient tankless water heaters, LED lighting and mini split heat/AC units vs traditional equipment. Offer to include internet and TV services for $100 when it only costs $60 for the consumer equivalent as a business.
Does the landlord/owner come forward and disclaim all of these pricing details to the tenant? Or do they summarize and give them the option to accept or decline, period? If the tenant declines, do they get to stay after their lease expires? Or do they have the choice of leaving, or signing the new lease with all of the changes in effect?
You’re only correct on one point.
The landlord (343) will happily replace the existing, paying, tenant (current consumers) who declines the changes and refuses to sign a new lease (for example, they were give free users the same luxuries I’m paying for and I decide not to agree to the new TOS because of it), with someone who isn’t paying currently but will pay (free users who actually can be converted)
“The shouldn’t expect luxuries for free.”
Name a time in history, American or otherwise, when luxuries were free.
Necessities should be free, but are they? Food, water, warmth, hygiene, health care etc.
In this instance it’s the ability to download, install and play the game. The ability to unlock current free content from the battle pass (a luxury) and the ability to unlock all of the content from limited time in-game events outside of the battle pass (a luxury).
They shouldn’t be complaining about not having more luxuries for free. Especially ones that consumers are paying for. They have the necessities and some luxuries already.
“They shouldn’t be complaining about not having more luxuries for free.”
It’s not.
No consumer is currently facing this issue. It’s a non-issue for consumers.
You’re using irrelevant definitions to justify yourself. Reference reply #1 and #2.
Yes, the game is free. All users have the ability to download, install and play the game. They also have the luxury of unlocking designated tiers of the battle pass, and all content that comes with the limited time in-game events.
Consumers are given more luxuries. To be expected.
Free users should not expect more luxuries than they’re given.
I never said I didn’t appreciate free users submitting feedback about real issues within the game or that they weren’t dedicated.
I said they weren’t consumers. Because they’re not. They’re users.
I said that complaints like this shouldn’t be in the spotlight. Because they shouldn’t be. It’s a non-issue for consumers.
This is free users expecting more luxuries than they’ve been given. One that is given to consumers. They should not expect this luxury, nor should they get it, when others are paying for it. All because of the fact that they made a misinterpretation.
And I said that consumer complaints and user complaints should not carry the same weight. Because they shouldn’t. Reference the visitors vs tenants parking lot example.
Same concept.
It was summarized, the summary was misinterpreted. It’s not 343 at fault.
You have the option now to continue playing for free, unlocking current free content from the Battle Pass and free content from limited time in-game evenets.
You have the necessities and some luxuries. Can’t reasonably expect more, especially luxuries that others are paying for.
As a free user you’re not a customer. If you were a customer you wouldn’t have this complaint.
Expecting more? I’m not expecting anything but for things stated as “free” to remain free. Not changed after the fact.
They never stated it so, so they should revert it or be more upfront in the future.
All I’m asking is for fairness. It be different if they said something directly about this in the beginning but they didn’t and that’s negligence on their part.
I just don’t understand why any player would try defending this kind of stuff. Do lots of companies do it? Sure. But that doesn’t mean it’s good.
“Moochers of Reach” tells us everything we need to know about what 343 thinks of its players.
I honestly think that was a joke. But point taken.