If you say something is free and it’s not, what would we call that?
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Who said they did though? I don’t recall arguing that they straight up lied about this.
Point is they should be clear with their fans.
Yes I agree.
But you’re not giving me any occasion where they stated one way or the other what details would apply for free players. That’s not “known” then.
Again. I already addressed why I don’t find this “clear” in a previous response to you, and you said I had fair points then.
That’s why I asked if you have a different quote that I’d missed. But if there is anything retrospectively in my prior arguments that you disagree with I’m all ears.
For all intents and purposes it makes no difference.
What I meant was, it’s removed “as free content” from the game, it’s removed “for us” who don’t support these monetisation methods, it’s removed from the “base game” so to speak.
@l_HyperLethal_l but that isnt the case.
They said it was free and it was. They also indicated it could be accessed via payment after the free period.
I dont agree with it but thats the actuallity of the situation. They delivered precisely what they said the would, (in this particular situation.)
Im not saying you did I was just reviewing the fact of the situation.
They should yes but that isnt the premise the thread is based on. They were clear they just werent direct. It was clearly indicated thats the point.
We need to take note as to point it out in future and be more reactive when it is new information is my point.
And I dont blame you for being upset or making those assumptions either. Thats why I believe it is of the upmost importance for the community to be more quizical going forward.
And I appreciate the sentiment but the reality is that is factually linguistically clear. This is how companies speak to consumers.
I just find it naive to expect clearer more honest verbage.
Its immoral but its also the know common practice and we need to wise up not simply demonise or expect more months down the line.
We need to call this sort of language out immediatly and nip it in the bud.
Leverage our power of cunsumers to make it clear before its already executed upon.
This is the core point of my position.
To expect better of the market we must demand it by being better as consumers not complacent enough that we ask for after the fact change even when we were forewarned.
Its not ideal, I know. But it should be clear now that it is necessary.
Or else we just end up in this perpetual cyxle we have been in now for seemingly years.
No, it makes all the difference. They are insulated. They have technicallity on their side and its sad.
The option was outlined as far as 343i are legally concerned you either ignored or did not read the memo.
If we want to be as effective as possible in curtailing this sort corporate tomfoolery we need to be as specific and cut throat with as microsoft but retain our moral high ground.
To do so we have to be entirely truthful almpst to a fualt and demand the equivelant candour from 343i
We cannot afford to give them any oppertunity to label us dishonest in our questioning of honesty.
It makes it far easier to ignore the critique as childish or uninformed.
I just want the community to best equipped to combat corperate greed and protect whats left of the legacy at this point.
That meams not playing fast and loose with language when its in response to legally minded market speak designed to spin things in a positive light.
While they removed free item they did so in a way that was foreshadpwed and still provides non consumer players with free content. Thus they still provide the promised experience and did not from a factual perspextive remove anything as it is all still in the game.
The seasons free content remains but as is and was always the case older season/BP content is available on the cpndition you pay to access it.
I understand you dont feel it was clear in telling you this was the plan. Sadly your feelings dont change what is or isnt the truth on the matter.
It sucks we have to treat every announcment or statement 343i issues as highly suspect but thats exactly what has to be done. And needs to be dones so in a preemptive fashion in order to reap best results for the community or possibly an effect at all.
I in no way want to suggest your feelings arent justified. Just that if we are to combat this properly it needs to be done so explicitly before its already done. The more we let our response ls be overtaken in the emotive the more we miss out on.
Be that due to overhype and not properly dissecting the information or by leveling feedback that is genuine but innacturate in it’s language.
So I hope every person on this thread is betrer equipped to intervene going foeward(onto dawn).
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Where did they clarify this, exactly?
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Provided above mate.
Read the thread mate,
It’s in prior posts.
This isn’t a clear quote?
In legal terms, this might get them off, but this ain’t no where near as transparent as they need to be.
Of course, I’m not gonna waste my money suing a game dev over ten dollars, but it’s not cool to be lied to and expect to be okay with it.
People want transparency. Not smoke and mirrors. Unless I’m reading this wrong and there’s another quote I’m missing?
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Sure is to me, simple statement with a clear meaning.
The wording has is obvious.
If you have difficulty discerning its intent thats a seperate issue, one ive been highlighting for good reason as it is prevelant.
If you did/do struggle to see that then that bolsters my point.
People need to consider 343i’s comments more carefully.
I really dont see how theres any room for people to contest the obvious thing said in the overview.
Thats the reason so many of us were confised by other folks surprise.
But to each their own.
Keep this in mind going forward though, its probably going to be relevant time and time again.
343i can’t be given a benefit of doubt because they circumvent doubt in their language for a reason.
Edit: companies only speak in legal terms. They arent our friends one should not expect them to behave as such. Expect them to behave as companies have been for as long as they have existed. Its not sensible to bet on paradigm shifts when we have history to support things staying the same and being predatory.
But you’re just omitting how easily this can be misinterpreted. It’s about as clear as the questions on the ACT.
I don’t really see how that’s a feasible point.
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Im not omitting it lethal.
I genuinely dont see how one would make an assumption counter to the statements obvious (to me) meaning.
They went out of their way to dress up an ugly animal in a pretty dress to lessen blow back.
Thats how companies worl.
Historically its how 343i have been in their rhetoric.
I dont know why peole keep placing trust in a company that has not earned it.
Ye are all entitled to your opinions.
But im honeslty baffled anyone watched that trailer and thouhh it was all sunshine and roses. All i saw was seasons will get vaulted for money, coatings will destroy expresion etc.
Edit. I guess we just have diametrically opposing views.
As I see your stance equally as unfeasible as you do mine.
Cest la vie.
But I do genuinely emplor all of those who rwad this discourse to keep this entire dibacle in mind. Remeber the enemies tactics, or get ambushed again and again and wonder what you might be doing to allow it.
Ahh you saw this coming is what you’re saying.
Well, I certainly didn’t.
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Ya and honestly was so confused when people applauded 343i for more empty marketing talk that from my perspective explained how they still had not learned from past mistakes.
Like how they used the whole “roots” “ce” bs in the same breath they showed off sprint, commando, bulldog and side kick.
Note i like those weapons but it spoke volumes how they spoke about things players were nostalgic for while also showing to exact opposit.
I think the hype for infinite clouddd many peoples critical thought on what 343i was saying at the time because it was clearly lots of empty rhetoric and loud actions tk the contrary.
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The Battlepass part flies by in 16 seconds, which is a fraction of the entite 12 minite video.
i343 has a habit of being extremely technical and/or not really inhabiting the same reality is us listeners / readers.
They don’t want to have challenges feel like chores, and they most certainly do. FOMO shouldn’t be in, but that’s exactly what they use with timed events and weekly rewards.
Prior to that video, I’m fairly certain i343 had only ever said Battlepasses do not expire, and there had been no mention of requisites to progress older BPs, or that they’d change how they work. The working assumption was that you could activate which BP you were progressing, with the BPs not functioning differently from when they were the newest.
Another issue you run into here is, can it be considered Expired if you don’t have the premium? If you gain nothing from the pass unless you’ve bought it, can it be considered Expired to the user?
“The halo battle pass will never be taken away from you. And what I mean by that is, once you buy it its yours and it does not expire. In future seasons you can battle old battle pass as well the current and choose which battle pass to put your progression towards.”
Once you buy it etc etc Does not expire.
So, does it expire or not? Special circumstances alter its availability beyond a certain threshold, not everyone meet those special circumstances. The free section certainly expire.
The mechanical workings of Halo MCC, a game collection they put together and continuosly updated, among others, to include a Battlepass system where old BPs didn’t expire and you could unlock things in.
i343’s inability to make a clear statement, be vague or even outright contradict their own stuff, paired with rushing through the Customization section of the game in a sort of promotional video, certainly allows for open interpretation, or, mistrust, in what they actually mean.
Considering this… Ruckus… Wasn’t doing the rounds before, which I’d wager it would have done, had more people been absolutely certain that single 16 second piece on the Battlepass being what they actually were aiming for.
Remember;
The Random Map Ordnance system for Halo 4 was in to not give long time players an advantage over newer ones by knowing timers and locations, yet, the game featured Custom Loadouts with items locked behind Time-played-walls.
The first Halo 4 DLC disaster was made a planned Promotion AFTER some players had gotten it downloaded for free by mistake.
Two Halo 5 live action ads were pulled from the official youtube channel due to questionable marketing.
Cortana is definately dead.
Halo Wars 2 Season pass description was changed after it went pre-order to not include the first Expansion, without notification, and issues arose when it launched.
If you haven’t completed the free content in 6 months post launch then do you really care?
There were a couple of events that had free stuff also:
Cyber showdown,
Tenrai,
Christmas cracker (can’t remember the name)
Some stuff won’t appear because it was in these…but again - if you haven’t got the content at this point why do you care? It’s operating like every F2P game on the planet EXCEPT what you pay for doesn’t expire.
I may have issues with their challenge and progression system as a whole but what you have mentioned here is (IMO) a total non-issue
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Spend 20 bucks, and you get all of the Battle Passes forever thanks to this BP (and likely the next one, and the one after that) giving people enough Cr to get the next one. The BPs never expire, so you don’t have the time commitment or FOMO to worry about aside from the Fractures events.
This is something that I straight-up refuse to get angry about. A little patience means you’re prolly gonna get all the rest of the BP content, years worth of it, for 20 bucks. 10 bucks for the first one, and 10 bucks for this current one. Folks need to calm down.
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Winter Contingency - to fit the Reach theme.
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I don’t think there are too many ways too respond to this without starting to repeat things I’ve said previously.
I appreciate that you’re trying to see both sides, but I really don’t agree that you’re doing it in a realistic way. I’m sure you feel the same about me, and I’m fine with that. Either we spiral on from here or we recognise it as a dead end.
Maybe next time we come across each other we’ll have more to agree on 
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Ya i appreciate we have opposing schools of thought on this.
Thata how things go sometimes and theres no point in us bashing on walls to change eaxh others minds.
Nor do i think that is the goal of these threads.
We simply just need endevour to understand others perspectives not necessarily adopt them for ourselves.
I u derstand your stance I just dont share it and thats totally healthy in a community as long as we can be civil in our discourse abiut it.
@Naqser you have another view point thats perfectly fine.
Ill be honest i see all of your arguement their to be super weak ut im not going to go on repeating what is already covered as it doesnt benefit the thread.
I think the statements are clear and I think as I do with all co.panies that the consumer must hold some accountability and do due diligence.
It feels counter preductive to me to lie in order to accuse a company of lies. And hurts more valid critique in the long run.
The whole 16 sec thing though is absurd because thats exactly how long it took to explain it. It did not need to be longer.
I feel like much of your counter arguement serves no purpose.
In that 16 secs it was clear what they were doing.
People just wanted to be optimitic and i have no idea why given the track record.
Fool me once as they say.
You make valid conplaints also but those only go to bolster my sentiment that people are too quick to applaud when they should be reading into what was said.
In the end. Its certajnly a bit late to complain we werent warned because clearly we were. You go so far to admit that much.
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Excuse me, what?
I offered no counter arguments to anything, I do not try to disprove anything which has been said. My post serves as an explanation on various, combined or separate, reasons as to why a 16 second snippet, either went by people unconsidered as to their meaning, or why someone could be skeptical of the meaning of what was being said.
Dude you literally posted a counter arguement right above.
You literaly took the premise of my thesis and proppsed a contrary logic in responce to it.
One that I personally found to be weak for a couple reasons.
And I have zero issue with any of it im just not in the same school of thought as you on it and rather than rethread my reasons as to why Ive opted to just let this thread go on without me.
Im perfectly comfortable with not sharing the popular opinion on this topic.
You responded to my arguement of it was clear, with your reasonings as to why it was not clear.
Thus you provided a counter arguement.
Disapproval isnt inherent in arguementation.
In fact when arguementation is at its best most functional disapproval is entirely absent.
You may see it as an “explanation” but its an explanation of why one would see my statement as erroneous. And again that perfectly fine, thats exactly the sort of response i hope to recieve it means theres an honest discourse being had.
But ultimately i see those explanations as proof or symptoms of the underlying issue that i wished to highlight.
Because i feel that is the most effdctive and direct way of improving communication.
Should you choose to read the thread we had outlined all the grievences you provided already and thus i have nothing new to say in responce to them. Others i feel are just gonna derail the topic. But its all their for you to read if you get the urge.
I dont know why anyone would take offence to anything i said but if you have i apologise, wasnt the intent.
See you in the next disscussion.
(Edit: Impressive how childish some people are when their opinion differs from theirs haha using the bait medal as bait is an outstanding move kiddo. Shame you got nothing to say.)
Implying that 343i is so incompetent that they can’t even scrub floors properly is not constructive. Imagine my shock.
But seriously, that’s against the rules here.
This ain’t fourchan. You gotta actually keep a cool head and not go off on hostile rants.
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