Isn’t this just the same as having free items in the battle pass?
You are getting free items for “time invested”.
I wouldn’t go as far as to say we’re forced, but more like unfairly pressured to buy it after being led to believe we wouldn’t need to.
No, I get that.
Normally, based on other games, the entire battle pass season content would be gone upon the next season. Both paid and free content would be unavailable when the next season starts.
Although it may not sound like it, I’m not defending it. I just don’t think it’s as big a deal as people make it out to be. I do understand the “weaponize FOMO” argument.
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@Darwi I wouldn’t say it’s the same.
Not with the current free rewards for Season 1 and 2. If there were more free rewards like coatings or armor then I would agree with you.
A large portion of the rewards are things like swaps and boosts. Which realistically, are only helpful if you’re trying to progress the Battle Pass. And it was worse in Season 1 for free users, because you would unlock a boost and a swap, which were basically only getting you more boosts and swaps if you used them.
The swaps can be used in the pursuit of the weekly ultimate challenges, outside of progressing the battle pass, but the boosts were borderline useless.
Hopefully we keep heading in the direction of more/better free rewards.
And @Spam8358 I would argue that the pressure isn’t applied externally. If you feel pressured to buy it I’d say you’re pressuring yourself. Which isn’t quite the same as saying you want to buy it, but you want to want to buy it. If that makes sense. You want the rewards that come from buying it, and that’s what’s making you feel pressured to buy it.
There may be external factors at play, like seeing other players with the rewards in-game or seeing your favorite streamer with the rewards, or seeing the HCS teams with their team skins, etc. There’s subliminal advertising everywhere. But you’re creating the pressure internally. We all are.
Well, if this is a common practice for free content to suddenly become paid content when the next season starts, I’d say that’s something that needs to be changing.
I had no idea something like this was a thing. So far, I’ve only played 2 games that have battle passes and that’s Destiny 2 and Halo Infinite.
I don’t really see what you mean no.
But I would not be surprised if part of the idea of interrupting peoples progression, maybe right before they reach a goal they had set themselves, is to make them lean towards paying. I do think this counts as external.
Maybe I should have used another word than pressured. My point was that the word forced was a bit extreme.
I think it’s more like if you’re invited to a party and your friend led you to believe drinks will be on the house. But then you arrive to the party and learn it’s actually an all sober non alcoholic party. And the only way to get drinks is to buy them in the nearby bar.
You might definitely not want to go to that bar whatsoever, but you still feel like you’re missing out on the evening you were led to believe you’d have. And you can’t help but feel that this friend of yours should have been clear with you from the start.
Oh and the friend happens to own the bar…
Yeah I’ll never be an author…
The common practice is for free content to become unavailable after the season ends. Period. The only difference between the Battle Pass on Halo and other games is that Premium players have the ability to go back and unlock past content.
You can’t do that with Fortnite, Apex Legends, Call of Duty or Valorant. On those games, if you pay for the Battle Pass, you have from the time you pay, until the season clock stops ticking. There is no going back to get items you didn’t have time to unlock. You get what you get in the time you’re given.
You’re misreading the situation in my opinion.
They’re not doing you a disservice. They’re actually doing something that hasn’t been implemented in other games, that I’m sure would be appreciated by certain players. If you could go back in those games and unlock past content it would be awesome.
But the fact that you can, also eliminates exclusivity and rareness. So it could also be seen as a negative by people who have actually been supporting the game since Season 1.
For example someone who has paid skins from Season 1 of Fortnite, and someone like myself who’s never played it.
I have no idea what season they’re on but let’s say Season 13 for the sake of this example, I buy Season 13 and I can go get that long extinct skin from Season 1. There’s really no exclusivity or rarity for players who’ve actually been playing since Season 1 in that case.
Which is how it is with Halo. Depending on your opinion, it can be a positive or a negative.
I get what you’re saying, but you simply cannot take back free items.
Once you made it free, it’s free. Unless you’re going to tell us up front from now on that these items are free for a limited time, you shouldn’t be allowed to do that.
That’s the stuff that pisses people off.
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To put it bluntly, I understand that it was never stated that they’re going to remove access to the free items from Season 1, for free players. It should have been. But it was also never stated that free players would have access to the free items indefinitely.
Based on that alone, saying “Once you made it free, it’s free. Unless you’re going to tell us up front” just isn’t a valid argument.
Especially when you factor in common sense (which I realize isn’t common at all) and common practice for the Battle Pass experience based on other games.
Would you not have complaints right now if Season 1 was just locked away forever, and you didn’t have the option to go back and finish progressing by paying for Premium again? Would that be fine, because it’s the common practice or would you still be complaining simply becaust it’s 343 and it’s the popular thing to do?
The people complaining about the Battle Pass related non-issues right now on Halo, have no complaints “paying for the Battle Pass” on other games and having the clock hit 0:00 with tiers still locked and no option to go back to finish the season what so ever. No complaints. Because that’s how the Battle Pass experience works. That’s common practice.
So why are you complaining? What’s the real reason? What’s going on? I’m all ears. Is it because it’s 343? Or are you taking out your frustrations here because of external factors?
All I see are people trying to make something out of nothing and misinterpreting an uncommon take on the Battle Pass experience.
If you actually care about Halo and you’re not just here to pick at 343 like the the rest of the hive mind, direct your energy toward the real issues in the game.
Like the fact that there’s no server select on a game that “favors the shooter” and is literally made so that the server prioritizes ping in a “first come first served” model.
This is what results in the server ignoring your shot, and you not getting a trade. Even if the input timestamps recorded are the exact same timestamp within 5ms of each other.
That needs to be rewritten to prioritize the timestamp of the input from the 2 clients, as opposed to favoring the client with lower ping that’s communicating with the server 50ms before the other client.
Just because a certain thing is common doesn’t make it right and doesn’t mean their isn’t room for improvement.
What 343 has going for them is the battle that never expires. Such a great move and limits the pressure off of the player so that they don’t feel rushed to complete a pass before a certain date.
However, they need to follow through with its consumer friendly model. You’d be surprised of how much support you’d get from doing right.
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The issue with this is that you’re classifying free players as consumers when they’re just not.
con-sum-er
a person who purchases goods and services for personal use.
“understanding what motivates consumers is more crucial than ever”
I’m a consumer, and I can confidently say that in regards to the Battle Pass, it’s consumer friendly the way it is. That 4th challenge slot does its job, and the ability to switch seasons would be useful if I hadn’t completed Season 1 before it ended.
The thing is, I don’t care about the Battle Pass nor do I care about the perks.
I still pay for Premium, regardless of what’s directly included in the price. I pay for it in the hopes that the real issues will get solved with the addition of my support. Which would also benefit you as a non-consumer.
Minimizing desync or giving us server selection, adding a mission replay function to campaign, co-op campaign, additional playlists, additional maps and forge will all benefit free and Premium users alike. Unless of course you don’t own the campaign. In that case, that one doesn’t apply.
As a consumer I disagree with you. And I don’t appreciate 343 being distracted from the real issues.
The Battle Pass should not be in the spotlight what so ever as far as issues go. There are much bigger issues that need to be dealt with.
It would be a pressing issue if it was actually broken.
Let’s say you paid for Premium, but all of the Premium items stayed locked to you after your purchase and it wasn’t just you, it was wide spread. That’s a pressing issue and it needs to be fixed. Or another example would if XP ended up broken and you completed all of your challenges for 0 progress on the Battle Pass. That’s a pressing issue that needs to be fixed.
This “issue” is a non-issue. Again, being blunt, people are just choosing to be a Karen over it. If you’re going to call yourself a consumer, be a consumer before complaining. If you were a consumer, you wouldn’t have this very complaint.
Wait a sec, what do you mean by this? You’re saying this in a way that’s sort of dismissive to my concerns.
Free items turning into premium items is definitely a concern because what it really means is that those items weren’t really free to begin with, leading into false advertisement territory.
That’s looked down on heavily in the consumer space and not consumer friendly. If you have to trick me in order to get my money, well, let’s just say it’s not a good look.
I’m sorry if you feel that you’re issues aren’t being attended to, but that truly isn’t my problem. You gotta take that up with 343. They’re the ones with the planners who tell them which issue gets attention first.
What I mean is that as of right now, you’re not a consumer. If you upgraded to Premium during Season 1, you were but aren’t anymore. If you didn’t, then you never were.
And it’s meant to be eye opening, not dismissive, but I understand how it came across that way.
The concern you have isn’t backed by evidence and has been explained, by me, by 343 and by other users here on the forum.
I’ve said “invalid” in the past which I can see just triggers a fight response. Unjustified is a better term to use.
The explanation:
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Free items from Season 1, were free to unlock during Season 1. It’s Season 2 now. The free items for Season 2 are free to unlock for you.
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Switching back and forth to progress Season 1 now that it’s over, is a Premium feature. The items weren’t removed. They’re still available to unlock. Just not to you as a free user, since it’s a Premium feature.
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It was announced that Premium users would be able to do this. It was also announced that Premium expired from season to season.
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It was never announced that free users would be able to switch the season that they were progressing once Season 2 went live or that users who purchased Premium during Season 1 would keep the additional challenge slot and the ability to switch seasons (which wasn’t present in Season 1) after the season ended.
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Whether you’re a free user that’s been a free user since release and only unlocked the free tiers for Season 1, or a “new” free user who just hasn’t upgraded to Premium again during Season 2, you’re a free user and shouldn’t expect Premium perks without currently being a Premium user.
The distinction I made, saying you’re not a consumer and I am, isn’t meant to make you feel lesser it’s just meant to back my point. Being a consumer implies that you’re currently a consumer. You’re currently a Premium user, meaning you purchased Premium during Season 2.
It could also imply that you purchased Premium during Season 1, but haven’t during Season 2. If that’s the implication, then I’ve already explained how Premium purchased during Season 1 doesn’t get you Premium perks during Season 2.
If you were a consumer/Premium user right now and you did have the perks that come from it then you wouldn’t be making this complaint.
It’s friendly to the consumer/Premium user.
I don’t know how to explain it any simpler than that.
I’m not blaming you for the issues, that’s on the devs.
The fact that the issues aren’t fixed yet, is on corporate because they have the devs focused on the Battle Pass and store items as opposed to real content for the game or the real issues that are present.
As long as the Battle Pass and store stay in the spotlight, corporate won’t look away and the devs won’t be able to fix the issues or deliver actual content.
Like I said, if there were actual issues regarding the Battle Pass, I would agree and think it should be prioritized. But this is a non-issue that does not need to be solved. It’s threads like this one, made based on a misunderstanding that are getting a load of attention, overshadowing the real issues.
When they check forum activity and see that there are 30 of these threads in the span of a week, getting the most interactions and activity here on the forum, they go “people are focused on the Battle Pass, we need to do more with the Battle Pass and focus on that” all because of a misunderstanding that made the Battle Pass trend over the real issues.
The topic doesn’t matter and neither does the creator. We’re all just numbers to corporate. In volume. We’re not even individual numbers.
Corporate doesn’t see you, or me, or even the full title of your topic never mind the contents. They see “Battle Pass” and “free items”. That’s it, just the key word filters… Best case scenario, all of this might result in more free items in the Battle Pass for future seasons.
The devs are never going to be able to fix real issues and deliver proper content if all that’s trending when corporate looks at the numbers is the Battle Pass and the store. Corporate focuses on that, and the devs have to as well.
It’s not just here on the forum. There are blog posts, tweets and even full length YouTube videos dedicated to this topic. All for nothing.
That’s what I’m referring to, not you personally. You’re 1 piece in a 10,000 piece piece puzzle made of confused and frustrated people.
I’m explaining this to you, in hopes that you’ll stop stoking the fire and maybe explain it properly to others who think the same way you currently do.
The fire shouldn’t exist, never mind being larger and more covered in social media than the real fires.
Fire is a metaphor for issues.
bless your soul spartan <3
A consumer isn’t exactly tied to monetary spending
Consumer: a person, organization, country, etc., that uses something, especially fuel, energy, etc.:
I can buy you something that you can “consume”. You’ve never spent anything on the gift but you’re still the consumer, and I payed for it yet I’m not strictly the consumer of what I bought if I don’t partake in the consumption, or in other terms, am not an end-user.
Nonconsumer: : a person who does not consume or utilize a particular good or service.
I’d argue they’d be more stressed to fix what’s broken if the money stops dripping in, rather than seeing the money flow even when the product is faulty.
Just look at the broken messes games release in today, and still make a profit.
Am I misinterpreting something here or are you waving “I paid for stuff therefore I have a bigger say” on others who have concerns about a product they consume?
Let me reassure you on something, the people handling the networking part of Halo Infinite are not the same people handling the Blogging and Communication with the Community. The Networking team will continue to work on desynch issues regardless of how loud the Season 1 Battlepass concerns get, because the Battlepass department is not theirs.
Depends, i343 has a history on being extremely technical. When they announced battlepasses wouldn’t expire, and be available forever, there was an argument on here and I did say that there’s a possibility i343 will mess it up, no matter how much praise they got at that moment.
Yeah, kudos to them for not expiring them, but merging the free items with the premium part is exactly the kind of move which decrease the value of non-expiring battlepasses.
Like it or not, but a significant part of the playerbase is not paying for things in the game, and the battlepasses are a form of incentive to continue playing. i343 making old ones Premium only decrease any incentive to play for eager non-payers who finish their battlepass before a new season. There’s a potential drop of on new players who’d like to progress on older passes.
Just because you paid does not put you above anyone else.
Its common pratice alright and that sucks becaise its an awful practice.
But the complaints are coming in so late from ye guys when this was signaled as far back as the initial mp reveal.
Why didnt anyone come out to complain when we were told point blank this was the intended system 343i was gonna use?
I remember being one of a few bemoaning this direction when the community where clapling on about pro consumer 343 and their transparancy.
“A transparant turd is just a turd i can see through whys that so great?” i would ask myself and other.
Although i cant be party to perpetuating a lie so,
Thats an actual lie. Ths content was entirely free, no up front cost was required for the entire period they had claimed they would be.
Its bad practices on 343is part but it is 100% not false advertising because they advertised exactly this. People just dont pay attention to whats being said and let the hype sweep them into believing what they want it to.
@Spam8358 Its certainly a bad practice.
And having all free content remain free would be far healthier for retention but the corperate talk used by 343i made it very clear access expired.
As has been proven with clips in the reveal and other quotation.
Its a terrible descision but its fair to say thet noone was lead to believe it remained free by the marketing.
More it was jist assumed despite the language employed indicatjng the reverse was true.
I think this should serve as a lesson. Weve been victim of sketchy phrasing for a while now yet people still assume the best when being told the worst and it means these complaints are only leveled months too late.
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I think we’ve already been over why I don’t think that quote made it clear. If you’re referring to something else they said, then I think I’ve missed it
Im refering the the clip I provided a URL for that states it in not uncertain terms to have been the direction they had planned from the i itial MP reveal.
And while I absolutely do sympathise with your feelings that it wasnt clear it doesnt negate the reality that it very much was.
Was it underhanded? Yes it absolutely was.
Was it manipulative? Perhaps.
But did 343i actually state other wise? No. No they did not.
Ultimately it was your assumptions that lead to you being surprised and feeling betrayed.
And the result is the initial complaint that:
Is simply not a fair one. Because it was always known people just chose to ignore or misinterpret the information on hand while caught up in prelaunch hype.
So my stance is: while I dissagree with way 343i is handling this and most other aspects of infinite.
There is a far more valuable outcome to be drawn from this particular issue.
That being a more measured and methodical approach by us, the community at large, in how we read or interpret statements of this nature going forward.
We cant take things at the face value casual pressumptious level of reading when it comes to these sorts of things.
We need to establish what is ACTUALLY being said and respond accordingly.
Whilst also putting pressure on 343i to be entirely obvious without room for misinterpretation in their language going forward.
Complaining now about something you were warned about by saying you werent warned is just a red flag that people arent taking time to fully understand announcements.
As a company 343i have every right to skew perception in a positive light.
We as consumers have a responcibility to make any and all claims by them easily intelligable for the community as a whole so we can rally against bad practices prior to implementation as opposed to post.
You are rightfully irked but I think its important people take these teachable moments on board and understand how they/we facilitated these bad prsctices. By it intentional or not.
I’m worried this will come across as dismissive of your complaints but please believe that is not the intent.
Rather I am just trying best I can to convey a perspective.
As a fan of many legacy franchises Ive seen these sorts of trappings again and again but the #gamer culture seems to be quick or often willing to brush aside these controversies and leave newer players to have to relearn old lessons rather than prepare them.
To be ready to spot the language that has negative connotations even when delivered as positive change.
Coatings got a more noticable pushback but they used a similar style of speech it was just the community didnt recieve it as well as the seasons/bp info and focusdd kn the vague language and the worry about change but sadly many jumped to deffend 343i on the bp without giving it much thiught or by repeating third party takes on the info in the “journalism” that surrounded it and labeled it an industry high bar berfore even seeing it in function or properly unpacking what was said.
8mins into this overview:
https://***tu.be/n-O7OuliQRY note ***=you
“The halo battle pass will never be taken away from you. And what I mean by that is, once you buy it its yours and it does not expire. In future seasons you can battle old battle pass as well the current and choose which battle pass to put your progression towards.”
There was never any indication that prior season content was accesible in the free tier of the battle pass. And its important to note that the free content is clearly depicted as tiers within the battle pass.
They dont show these as seperate things because then you could rightfully state it is false advertising.
But they built the system to monetise and legacy season content in its entirity and warned us accordingly.
Regardless of how clear some may see this as being it is nonetheless telegraphed to insulate 343i from accusations similar in nature to your own.
So the free seasonal content wasnt removed it was just pay walled with the introduction of the current seasons bp and its own free rewards.
Leaving little room for the complaint, 343i removed free content (without warning), to be taken seriously by the company. Because as far as they are conscerned that is a lie.
Not surprised. Standard 343I