Assuming we see another incarnation of Loadouts in Halo 5, please scrap, bury, destroy and vaporise the ability to spawn with a Plasma Pistol and a set of Plasma Grenades. People with the ability to EMP and annihilate from the get-go negates vehicle combat in the first place.
The Warthog in particular as lost all its former glory. I no longer see it as a tool of destruction, rather a double kill for the enemy. Fighting to maintain vehicle dominance was critical in BTB maps, something either very rare or completely absent in Halo 4.
The only way I can rationalise the decision to give people the option to spawn in with PP/PG was to simply make the game even easier (or accessible…), which Halo 4 did not need.
It already eliminated any skill curve for a universal spawn in weapon (i.e.: BR starts) by allowing people to choose their spawn in weapon, and it gave players an abundance of power weapons from ordnance. I’m not arguing with these two changes, that’s not what this thread was about. This just shows how PP/PG starts are unnecessary as the game has already been made easier.
343 keep your Loadouts, fine, just please consider the serious limiting effects PP/PG spawn-ins have on the game.
As far as I know, every experienced player would agree with you.
While it would be nice to have the option of it in loadouts, i dont use it, and as such dont care as much, but I do think we need more than just the standard magnum as a secondary.
Why not just bring back the CE Plasma Pistol for loadouts then bring the Grenade Launcher back in for EMP’ing?
You are absolutely correct. There are plenty of things currently in loadouts that you should not be able to spawn with. Those are two of them.
> While it would be nice to have the option of it in loadouts, i dont use it, and as such dont care as much, but I do think we need more than just the standard magnum as a secondary.
There has been the idea of a “Needle Pistol” suggested. Similar to the Magnum, except it is not headshot capable, and has the supercombine ability, among a multitude of other minor differences.
I think it would be fair to have a choice between just the 2 of them in loadouts (should they return at all).
> You are absolutely correct. There are plenty of things currently in loadouts that you should not be able to spawn with. Those are two of them.
- Plasma Pistol/Plasma Grenades- Boltshot/Pulse Grenades- Tactical Packages/Support Upgrades- Armor Abilities Am I forgetting anything?
As for an alternative to the Plasma Pistol, why can’t the Covenant employ the use of a different sidearm? I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Needle Pistol (btw Symmetrik, I’m not directing this at you, as i know you’ve already seen this idea). Acting as a miniature Needle Rifle (importantly without the classic Needler/Plasma Pistol “homing” feature), this could act as a counterpart to the Magnum, rather than as a gimmicked sidearm that’s primary use is to EMP for easy kills.
EDIT: Well… that’s something to see. Glad to see you’re spreading the idea, Symmetrik 
> > You are absolutely correct. There are plenty of things currently in loadouts that you should not be able to spawn with. Those are two of them.
>
> - Plasma Pistol/Plasma Grenades- Boltshot/Pulse Grenades- Tactical Packages/Support Upgrades- Armor Abilities Am I forgetting anything?
>
> As for an alternative to the Plasma Pistol, why can’t the Covenant employ the use of a different sidearm? I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Needle Pistol (btw Symmetrik, I’m not directing this at you, as i know you’ve already seen this idea). Acting as a miniature Needle Rifle (importantly without the classic Needler/Plasma Pistol “homing” feature), this could act as a counterpart to the Magnum, rather than as a gimmicked sidearm that’s primary use is to EMP for easy kills.
>
> EDIT: Well… that’s something to see. Glad to see you’re spreading the idea, Symmetrik
I think you got it all. Have we been doing this too long? Something seems repetitive…
I was about to respond telling you I’d just posted the NP idea, then I saw you edit lol. It’s a good idea. I’d thought it would be cool to have a NP weapon since before Halo Reach. It can make a nice addition to gameplay and the way it’s been created on here seems like it’s balanced.
> The Warthog in particular as lost all its former glory. I no longer see it as a tool of destruction, rather a double kill for the enemy. Fighting to maintain vehicle dominance was critical in BTB maps, something either very rare or completely absent in Halo 4.
the main reason I’ve stopped playing Halo 4 as often
BTB has always been my favorite playlist, and for one reason only, Vehicles
In Halo 4, any vehicle, regardless of power or position, can be taken down single-handedly by a single person spawning with Plasma Grenades and the Plasma pistol.
How about just scrap load outs period. They are a big reason Halo 4 has had so many problems.
> How about just scrap load outs period. They are a big reason Halo 4 has had so many problems.
No, the big reasons for Halo 4’s problems were the extent of options (not all of them balanced or respectful of Halo’s “equal starts” principle), the lack of a skill ranking system, the lack of support for traditional gametypes, and the general random implementation of Personal Ordnance. Loadouts themselves weren’t a problem; if you list the problems with Personal Loadouts, you will find that they can be removed while keeping loadouts relevant and balanced.
Plasma Pistol, Plasma Grenades, Boltshot, Tactical Packages/Support Upgrades, Armor Abilities at spawn, and long-ranged weapons (DMR/LR): these items’ inclusion in Personal Loadouts have diluted and destroyed vehicular combat, added random and indistinguishable traits to players, and have discouraged map movement. However, removing these, what makes loadouts a bad inclusion? Don’t say “equal starts” either, as “equal” and “identical” are two different things. Giving the player the choice at spawn between an AR or BR (as well as their Covenant counterparts) doesn’t make one superior to the other. It merely means that one may come out on top over the other due to effective use and knowing the weapons’ combat roles (AR and BR are both effective at short to mid-ranged combat, but one can top the other depending on the specifics of what range the engagement is leaning toward, player movement, and personal skill).
> > How about just scrap load outs period. They are a big reason Halo 4 has had so many problems.
>
> No, the big reasons for Halo 4’s problems were the extent of options (not all of them balanced or respectful of Halo’s “equal starts” principle), the lack of a skill ranking system, the lack of support for traditional gametypes, and the general random implementation of Personal Ordnance. Loadouts themselves weren’t a problem; if you list the problems with Personal Loadouts, you will find that they can be removed while keeping loadouts relevant and balanced.
>
> Plasma Pistol, Plasma Grenades, Boltshot, Tactical Packages/Support Upgrades, Armor Abilities at spawn, and long-ranged weapons (DMR/LR): these items’ inclusion in Personal Loadouts have diluted and destroyed vehicular combat, added random and indistinguishable traits to players, and have discouraged map movement. However, removing these, what makes loadouts a bad inclusion? Don’t say “equal starts” either, as “equal” and “identical” are two different things. Giving the player the choice at spawn between an AR or BR (as well as their Covenant counterparts) doesn’t make one superior to the other. It merely means that one may come out on top over the other due to effective use and knowing the weapons’ combat roles (AR and BR are both effective at short to mid-ranged combat, but one can top the other depending on the specifics of what range the engagement is leaning toward, player movement, and personal skill).
Sorry, I should have said One of the reasons Halo 4 had problems. Custom Load Outs add so much frustration even to this day. They single handedly killed vehicle game play in most games.
I can see what the OP is saying but I am not a fan of this feature.
> > > How about just scrap load outs period. They are a big reason Halo 4 has had so many problems.
> >
> > No, the big reasons for Halo 4’s problems were the extent of options (not all of them balanced or respectful of Halo’s “equal starts” principle), the lack of a skill ranking system, the lack of support for traditional gametypes, and the general random implementation of Personal Ordnance. Loadouts themselves weren’t a problem; if you list the problems with Personal Loadouts, you will find that they can be removed while keeping loadouts relevant and balanced.
> >
> > Plasma Pistol, Plasma Grenades, Boltshot, Tactical Packages/Support Upgrades, Armor Abilities at spawn, and long-ranged weapons (DMR/LR): these items’ inclusion in Personal Loadouts have diluted and destroyed vehicular combat, added random and indistinguishable traits to players, and have discouraged map movement. However, removing these, what makes loadouts a bad inclusion? Don’t say “equal starts” either, as “equal” and “identical” are two different things. Giving the player the choice at spawn between an AR or BR (as well as their Covenant counterparts) doesn’t make one superior to the other. It merely means that one may come out on top over the other due to effective use and knowing the weapons’ combat roles (AR and BR are both effective at short to mid-ranged combat, but one can top the other depending on the specifics of what range the engagement is leaning toward, player movement, and personal skill).
>
> Sorry, I should have said One of the reasons Halo 4 had problems. Custom Load Outs add so much frustration even to this day. They single handedly killed vehicle game play in most games.
>
> I can see what the OP is saying but I am not a fan of this feature.
Like I already said in my lengthy post that has apparently fallen of deaf ears/blind eyes, Personal Loadouts aren’t responsible for “killing vehicle gameplay”. That blame can accurately and precisely be assigned specifically to loadouts’ inclusion of the Plasma Pistol/Plasma Grenade combo. Being given choice isn’t a bad thing; it’s the choices themselves that can be negative.
> You are absolutely correct. There are plenty of things currently in loadouts that you should not be able to spawn with. Those are two of them.
So much this ^^^^
- It kind of kills BTB play and it’s really just a last chance to get a kill on someone for most kids
This has to happen. Both options ruin the gameplay, regardless of how balanced they are. Even if 343i split the multiplayer, I think it would be wise to remove the grenade option and replace the PP and the BS for more logical secondaries (SMG and PR, anyone?). Loadouts can actually be great if some things get removed (perks too, and specific AAs should only be on the map and on specific maps that work with them- Jet Pack for instance).
EDIT: That’s if 343i don’t try to split the multiplayer into Legendary and Infinity. If they do, Infinity could be whatever they want (as long as Legendary is good).
> How about just scrap load outs period. They are a big reason Halo 4 has had so many problems.
We don’t necessarily need to scrap Loadouts entirely. They need to be adjusted so that the power of being able to choose what you spawn with doesn’t compromise or override the value of playing the actual map.