Scarlett, collateral damage, NPC & enviro feedback

Games Halo Infinite
1

Xbox Project Scarlett Official Reveal Trailer - E3 2019
1:55 - 2:19
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=120&v=TgPClq_T40A

While watching this I was thinking about Halo Infinite being a living breathing world on Scarlett.
As Infinite will be a, if not, thee flagship title to show off what the console and game can do will there be a cost for collateral damage in Infinite? If Xbox wants worlds to come alive then we can’t just go around blowing up every building and killing every NPC or animal in sight just because they are in the way of a shot at no cost to the player. If you pick up a weapon then it has to be used very wisely and skillfully if not at all if you can get away with close quarters hand to hand, energy, claw, tentacle or hoof combat. I hope we are allowed to make hard choices to explore and not just be stuck on rail tracks funneled down a predetermined route during the game. What’s the point of Scarletts’ power then?

Will we get feedback from the Halo for our actions later on in game if we take out civilians or animals. One could accidentally destroy a weather control system and in the next level the local weather system has temporarily muffed up which could be good or bad depending on the players style of combat. If you blow up a building or change the weather then NPCs will hate you, animals die, so on and so forth.

While playing Reach: Exodus I always tried to save as many NPCs and Marines as possible. Yes I did die an AWFUL lot and there was no reward but it made me feel good trying to save NPCs for the very short time we were interacting on any level in Halo. It made me think about them, not me while playing. I didn’t like how Requiem was disposed of, and subsequently all that digital life. It seemed such a waste of so much work. Please no more.

We’re messing up the real world now and it’ll be our kids and grand kids that are going to have deal with our current actions because we don’t get instant feedback from the environment so I hope we get some form of feedback in Infinite as we play and not just a score. Hopefully our in game actions should affect the Halo, be they good or bad choices.

I love Halo but sometimes it can be feel super sterile at times and I really hope the hard and software in Scarlett brings the Halo universe to life and it wasn’t all just PR BS that was said in the Scarlett reveal trailer.
It is said Infinite will be a spiritual reboot but I hope and pray Halo evolves at the same time.

One last thing.
I vote for sprint. I need it for CQC, if I can remember how to do it! If one doesn’t want to sprint then don’t, but leave it in game for those that do.

Whatever happens and whatever choices are made during the games development, good luck everyone on the forum, 343i and the Xbox dev team. I hope we all get what we want, sprint!:-), from Infinite and Scarlett, and they are a global success.
Just don’t launch Scarlett the same way XB1 was cos that was a effing disaster and could kill Infinite stone cold dead!!!

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> 2533274851812176;1:
> Xbox Project Scarlett Official Reveal Trailer - E3 2019
> 1:55 - 2:19
> Xbox Project Scarlett Official Reveal Trailer - E3 2019 - YouTube
>
> While watching this I was thinking about Halo Infinite being a living breathing world on Scarlett.

Halo Infinite is also releasing on the current Xbox S, X and day one console. It will have to be a living breathing world and work on on all Xbox consoles.

3

This seems worthwhile enough to address, shame about the lack of enthusiasm.

> 2533274851812176;1:
> Will we get feedback from the Halo for our actions later on in game if we take out civilians or animals. One could accidentally destroy a weather control system and in the next level the local weather system has temporarily muffed up which could be good or bad depending on the players style of combat. If you blow up a building or change the weather then NPCs will hate you, animals die, so on and so forth.

I agree that collateral damage should return, but then the penalty shouldn’t be instant death (civilians on Exodus and Composer) or insta kill bullets (from allied NPCs). That just kills immersion. Devs must keep in mind that not all actions are deliberately intended to harm allies. Sometimes you might be trying to headshot a Grunt and a marine walks in front of your gun (Reach sort of circumvented this by giving them helmet protection). You’ll recall that HCE had a fun little easter egg where waves of unkillable marines descended to put you down. It wasn’t completely unfair, you still had a chance to hide and even escape (allowing you to see the easter egg hidden behind it). They could even be stunned long enough.

Also, I like the example you’ve provided, but the NPC shouldn’t be so unforgiving to the point that they’re never stop aiming their crosshairs at you. IIRC Arby in H3 would deliver a warning line when he returned to normal, that seemed sufficient enough to me.

> 2533274851812176;1:
> While playing Reach: Exodus I always tried to save as many NPCs and Marines as possible. Yes I did die an AWFUL lot and there was no reward but it made me feel good trying to save NPCs for the very short time we were interacting on any level in Halo. It made me think about them, not me while playing. I didn’t like how Requiem was disposed of, and subsequently all that digital life. It seemed such a waste of so much work. Please no more.

This is another good point. It should be encouraged (but not mandatory) to save marines whenever you can. I’m of the view that they should get up on their -Yoinks!- and follow you around rather than standing there doing nothing useful, see my post here: https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/29568daf8cd14083bd1b70a810bf3581/topics/predictions-open-world-or-nah/2f48f662-f4ab-41bc-b74d-21f5fc9daa43/posts?page=1#post16
Similar situations can be found in HCE missions Halo, AotCR, & 343GS, H2 Gravemind, H3 The Storm and Floodgate, ODST Oni Alpha Site, etc.

You might like the content provided by BadCyborgMovies, the man is a legend when it comes to rallying friendlies, which leads to my next point.

> 2533274851812176;1:
> I love Halo but sometimes it can be feel super sterile at times

That’s because most players don’t really branch out, don’t think outside of the box, don’t endeavor to take the game to it’s limits. They don’t take the time to explore a mission in-depth to stockpile knowledge based on experience (and I don’t mean merely reviewing the game files like modders tend to do), they take levels for granted and conform to the linear/expected approach. There are many unique situations which can be crafted with the right application of knowledge.
For instance, on the H4 mission Forerunner, you can actually have Promethean Knights turn on each other by taking advantage of the common out of bounds exploration. The ones that spawn on top can be backsmacked into the map (planting a frag nade on the ground before pummeling with Cowbell skull on helps). The Watcher which spawns below can revive the fallen Knight, which will in turn attack it’s fellow Prometheans.
And there are actually many oob/spawn skipping opportunities on Infinity even without the Pelican glitch, many inaccessible places can be reached just by jumping around all over the place, despite the invisible barriers.

“Tricking” had stagnated with the decline of HighImpactHalo and individual and talented glitchers, explorers, etc. were left in the lurch for a long time. Lately, there’s been a most welcome resurgence of this philosophy, in addition to Halo speedrunning, and this has been gradually acknowledged by the devs. Back then, it was something that was monopolized by elitists who withheld their secrets, but nowadays there are tutorials everywhere and it’s readily accessible for all. It could be argued that striving to know a level in-depth can kill one’s enjoyment of the game, but it can also be argued that it opens up new doors and a whole new world of discovery.

I’m of the view that a revamp of the checkpoint system would help a ton in extending a game’s replay value. To my knowledge, the only innovation to this system by far was introduced in H2 to circumvent the checkpoint death loops in HCE: dying quickly 5 times in a row has the effect of being sent back two checkpoints instead of one.

Generally, checkpoints can be delayed up to 8 seconds (or 5 melees/jumps) before they disappear. Perhaps that could be extended to 12-16 seconds?

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/29568daf8cd14083bd1b70a810bf3581/topics/how-would-you-feel-if-halo-infinite-was-open-world/625f7f61-41f8-4c3a-9f8b-52949c2c61fd/posts?page=4#post64

4

Back at work now.

I hear what you’re saying eviltedi but I’ve got a feeling unless you’ve installed HI on a external ssd then 343i are going to have to move and reshuffle all your installed games on the HDD to optimize the drive for this living breathing world on pre-Scarlett HDD consoles.
But gamers can now buy a cheap 120gb - 240GB for £19+ and a usb 3 enclosure and they’re good to go. Hopefully the price for ssds will drop even further by the time Infinite comes out so if you’re on a super tight budget everyone should be able to jump in by then.

I don’t want to sound like a echo chamber but I agree with what you said Sliding.

> 2535469197642915;1:
> This seems worthwhile enough to address, shame about the lack of enthusiasm.
>
>
> I agree that collateral damage should return, but then the penalty shouldn’t be instant death (civilians on Exodus and Composer) or insta kill bullets (from allied NPCs). That just kills immersion. Devs must keep in mind that not all actions are deliberately intended to harm allies. Sometimes you might be trying to headshot a Grunt and a marine walks in front of your gun (Reach sort of circumvented this by giving them helmet protection).

Collateral damage should never be insta death. For every action there should be a reaction from the local environment and NPCs. If one takes the piss out of your allies then they have a right to go full separatist mode on the chiefs shiny metal -Yoink- for a short amount of time. There should be consequences for ones actions.

> 2535469197642915;2:
> This is another good point. It should be encouraged (but not mandatory) to save marines whenever you can. I’m of the view that they should get up on their -Yoinks!- and follow you around rather than standing there doing nothing useful.

A simple attack / take cover command would suffice to control allied NPCs from going bonkers and spoiling ones plan of attack. Maybe one axis on the D-pad devoted to command and control when there are any friendly NPCs in the vicinity as long one hasn’t accidentally shot them multiple times and they freak out.

Maybe it’s time to introduce a Mantle of Responsibility (MR) rating in the game. Along with saving as many NPCs, both human and alien as possible, maybe one can get a rating for sneaking in and assassinating the enemy’s top commanders with the minimum loss of life, on both sides. When the enemy realize what’s happened they’re more weary of going into battle. I’m not talking full on MGS mode but maybe something similar or more sneaking in general to up your MR rating. Maybe the enemy AI will be more cautious, up security, and in response your allies will be more…blasé because of the players high MR rating which has to be balanced or your allies run head long into battle to your detriment. Playing H4 right now and just released the Didact from the cryptum and he states that the humans still haven’t subdued the other races therefore humans still aren’t worthy of the Mantle. Will we ever get the chance to be?

> 2535469197642915;2:
> That’s because most players don’t really branch out, don’t think outside of the box, don’t endeavor to take the game to it’s limits. They don’t take the time to explore a mission in-depth to stockpile knowledge based on experience (and I don’t mean merely reviewing the game files like modders tend to do), they take levels for granted and conform to the linear/expected approach. There are many unique situations which can be crafted with the right application of knowledge… It could be argued that striving to know a level in-depth can kill one’s enjoyment of the game, but it can also be argued that it opens up new doors and a whole new world of discovery.

I still haven’t played H5 because H4 campaign was very linear and left no room to explore or get off the track for a “normal” gamer. Once the door shut behind you, that was it, unless you where a pro at breaking glitching the game to open it up. Things like that took time to discover and when you get to a certain age, life vs Halo…life wins. After H4 I seemed to lose track of Halo and gaming in general letting my controller gather dust. I wanted to play H5 but the linearity of H4 and life kept me away so I’m slowly taking my time working through MCC. I’ve lost all my cqc assassination button skills so I’m taking a serious beating trying to get back to a level where I once was. If HI is developed to grow, expand, evolve and respond, without having to break and explore the game like a pro can, then I’ll stick around for as long as possible, if not then I have no idea what to do when it comes to Halo going forward…

> 2535469197642915;3:
> I’m of the view that a revamp of the checkpoint system would help a ton in extending a game’s replay value.

I think the MCC check point system is fine… I could be wrong though. Increasing the respawn wait period does solve issues if you don’t want to go all the way back to the start. But I can’t remember ever being trapped in a check point death situation or I just gave up and started the level again.

If what they said in the trailer was true then the Chief might be a rock that the universe has picked up is about to slam down on the calm serene peaceful surface of Zeta. Hopefully Zeta and the AI will respond to our actions in a more realistic way. The odd thing is the Halo game I gravitate towards most is Reach.
I’m not asking for the complete Nolan-ification of Halo but I’m 46 and need some semi-open/hub world exploration and realistic-ish feedback for my actions or I don’t think I’ll be able to invest serious time in Halo which will break my gaming heart. I mean what’s the point of having all that super neo mega Armstrong canon neo processing power under Scarletts hood only to be stuck on a one way track…with no sprint ;-)!

Will jump in on the other threads you alluded to earlier in this thread.

5

> 2533274851812176;4:
> I don’t want to sound like a echo chamber but I agree with what you said Sliding.

Haha glad to hear it man, I think you’ll likewise find myself agreeing with most of your points.

> 2533274851812176;4:
> A simple attack / take cover command would suffice to control allied NPCs from going bonkers and spoiling ones plan of attack. Maybe one axis on the D-pad devoted to command and control when there are any friendly NPCs in the vicinity as long one hasn’t accidentally shot them multiple times and they freak out.

That’d be much appreciated. I’ve always hated how marines tend to recklessly charge into battle and how they tend to make off with my vehicle.

There’s actually a really good (but artificial) method for controlling NPCs on the H3 mission The Covenant, inside the third tower. I like to think of it as a command center (and myself as a control freak hehe).

When you go through the door leading up to the elevator or jump onto that elevator without going through the door, the Brutes will spawn and make their way down the hallway. And if you go through that door, your Elites and Arby will move up with you. But if you send the elevator up, the Elites will retreat to the starting area (near the two covie crates). In this case, the Brutes will just walk around aimlessly when they exit through the door. But if you go through the door at a certain point, the Brutes will turn around and head back up to the elevator, setting up nicely for a stealth situation. The Elites can still adapt to that stealth situation, but they might sooner or later shoot at the Brutes. The tower is probably the best place to arrange a fight in the whole entire game.

This room is highly customizable for combat due to the presence of a repeating checkpoint which reoccurs whenever you enter the tower. So you can juggle a ton of weapons into the tower and make a gigantic stockpile (for replaying the battle with different guns or for arming the Elites). There are also plenty of Deployable Covers you can get from brutes outside the tower. They can be used to block the door, block certain paths.

If you take the time to melee a bunch of corpses from outside into this room and leave the Hunters alive (killing everything else: Brutes, Drones, and Elites), you can potentially have a huge flood mob fighting that hunter pair (ideally with Tilt/Mythic/Cowbell skulls turned on). The flood carriers which spawn outside the tower can be drawn into the room and blown up. Unfortunately, there seems to be a limit for how many combat forms infection popcorn will reanimate, if there’s too many combat forms, they will just stay back and do nothing.

> 2533274851812176;4:
> Maybe it’s time to introduce a Mantle of Responsibility (MR) rating in the game. Along with saving as many NPCs, both human and alien as possible, maybe one can get a rating for sneaking in and assassinating the enemy’s top commanders with the minimum loss of life, on both sides. When the enemy realize what’s happened they’re more weary of going into battle. I’m not talking full on MGS mode but maybe something similar or more sneaking in general to up your MR rating. Maybe the enemy AI will be more cautious, up security, and in response your allies will be more…blasé because of the players high MR rating which has to be balanced or your allies run head long into battle to your detriment. Playing H4 right now and just released the Didact from the cryptum and he states that the humans still haven’t subdued the other races therefore humans still aren’t worthy of the Mantle. Will we ever get the chance to be?

Are you proposing a reputation system/gradual acknowledgement from both enemies and allies (like in the Fable series)? I like the sound of that!

> 2533274851812176;4:
> I still haven’t played H5 because H4 campaign was very linear and left no room to explore or get off the track for a “normal” gamer. Once the door shut behind you, that was it, unless you where a pro at breaking glitching the game to open it up. Things like that took time to discover and when you get to a certain age, life vs Halo…life wins. After H4 I seemed to lose track of Halo and gaming in general letting my controller gather dust. I wanted to play H5 but the linearity of H4 and life kept me away so I’m slowly taking my time working through MCC. I’ve lost all my cqc assassination button skills so I’m taking a serious beating trying to get back to a level where I once was. If HI is developed to grow, expand, evolve and respond, without having to break and explore the game like a pro can, then I’ll stick around for as long as possible, if not then I have no idea what to do when it comes to Halo going forward…

I understand where you’re coming from, I’ve always rebelled against that sort of thing. Being teleported back into the map when you’re trying to leave an area is definitely immersion breaking. Happens a lot lately…
A good place to start would be on Forerunner, there’s a button which activates a light bridge that can be jumped on (it’s often seen in speedruns), setting up for an easy oob exploration. A harder spot can be found on Requiem, in the area right after the Elite Zealot. There’s some rocks which can be climbed on allowing you to reach the top of the cliffs, but it’s not an easy jump. Halo 4 - out of the map requiem (behind the barriers) - YouTube

I used to look up these kind of glitch videos after every Halo release, but beforehand I attempted to discover things on my own. If I didn’t find anything, I tried to build on existing glitches. A simple jump oob can be turned into a springboard for a revolutionary game changer.

> 2533274851812176;4:
> I think the MCC check point system is fine… I could be wrong though. Increasing the respawn wait period does solve issues if you don’t want to go all the way back to the start. But I can’t remember ever being trapped in a check point death situation or I just gave up and started the level again.

Yes, I’m admittedly very picky about the checkpoint system. It’s been very unforgiving to me in nearly all Halo games (considering my former line of work as a tricker/speedrunner). Giving up and restarting the level is probably faster.