My SBMM has gotten so high I’m exclusively seeing wannabe twitch streamers and “pro prodigies” every game. Remove it and -Yoink!- the employees responsible for having it in game.
If I can’t finish the weekly challenge because of it then God help me.
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You are not entitled to other players functioning as your personal cannon fodder.
And you can finish your weekly challenges, since you are matched with people your own skill (and the SBMM in social is not that strict). However: what you are now asking for is that other players can’t finish their challenges, since they would then continously be matched against way better skilled players.
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Ah yes, let’s fire the employees responsible for higher player retention. The swines!
Also, your MMR is not that high.
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People keep parroting this as a reason with zero proof.
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I’m already playing BTB less because I am noticing how unfair it feels, you see one or two players at the top with over 30 kills and everyone else just cannon fodder.
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Same here, constantly put in games where the the teams are so unfairly matched that its regularly 3-0 in objective games and over a 20 kill difference in slayer games. How is that supposed to be fun!?Other team is always sweats or premade lobbies while I have team mates that I feel like have never played a FPS and suprised they know how to feed themselves.
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10000000% agree… If you play BTB can go like 20-5 a game that skill gap is not the same as going 20-5 in a 4v4 arena ranked match… Yet, the system thinks you are great like the top% of halo players. It should be like Halo 2 you can be great but leave “social” alone there was so many people playing that you only faced a pro-team like 1 out of a 100 games… whether that’s Rumble Pit, Team Training, Big Team Battle, Team Objective, etc… SBMM should be removed and leave ranked where it shows your skill…
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Gears of War development showed them that 90% of players never played another game after they scored zero kills in their first.
It’s just common sense though. If you’re in the bottom 20% of all players that would mean that you would consistently lose and do terribly in most of your games. If people think it’s bad now, wait until they actually play people way above their skill level all the time. Forget about going 5-10, you won’t be getting a kill. Of course players that can’t get a kill or do well EVER would not play any more or as much. Sbmm offers players a chance to play nearish their level. Even if you’re average and in the middle ground, you will have awful games consistently without sbmm. At least with sbmm these players can do somewhat better and win more often.
I also would quit games for the same, that’s why I stopped playing MMC because I was pub stomping every game. Population did not support enough people for me to have good games anywhere near consistently.
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You think it would be better without sbmm? You’d likely be playing even sweatier players more often.
I’ve never had a lower win rate in any fps I’ve ever played.
Basically you don’t want to play people your skill level and be “casual” by curbstomping lesser skilled players.
The proof is in the pudding. Game companies all started to implement it despite (fairly heated) backlash from their core fan base. Why would they do that if it was not leading to higher player counts?
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Are you in the bottom 20% of players? Otherwise you’re quoting out of context.
You have a 47% win rate which means you win almost half, lose almost half.
What people seem to want is for good players to win 95% and bad players to lose 95%. The only reason people don’t want sbmm is to stomp on noobs. If a player is bad and wants to get rid of sbmm, good lord they don’t even know.
If all players have close to 50% win rates and 1 k/d then more people are having better games. Not everyone, but more people. It might mean I play better players all the time, but that’s on me, if I don’t chill out how are my opponents going to.
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I mean Halo 3 had much better player retention than any Halo since then. So maybe Menke’s new-fangled Trueskill 2.x isn’t as great as people like to think. I think Hoberman’s ideas are better for more people.
My point isn’t that there shouldn’t be any SBMM at all. My point is that the current SBMM implemented in Halo Infinite is broken for lots of people. It seems to work for people that play alone and play every game exactly the same. If you want to play with your friends and/or you play BTB and Fiesta differently than you play Ranked, you are going to be frustrated a lot.
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I do think the lack of other game competition definitely helped H3 thrive at the time,
With BTB I imagine the player skill is higher across all players as it is more broad. I’ve found my lower skilled friends definitely have a harder time in Fiesta and BTB when they play with me, but it’s also almost unavoidable. It’s been slung across this board a bunch already almost to death but if it’s easy for my friends then the game is gonna be a stupid landslide victory because the game is already easy for me when it’s hard for my friend, if it’s easy for him then we are basically playing Recruit bots at that point.
Also, to your point. I do frequently play alone but I also don’t play the same in every game. I relax in most social games and BTB and have no issues. Usually only turn up the heat if we are losing badly or I think the team need a little push to help them out. Otherwise you’ll see me running around with Ravager or trying to get someone on my Mongoose.
I would agree that SBMM needs to be better implemented. There are way to many instances where players are just insanely good and clearly don’t belong between the other players and completely wreck the match or sometimes entire teams that are better that the oppo team. You already see a lot of people above here complaining about it.
So apparently the SBMM system is not good enough in accurately measuring skill*, so that should be work in progress. And on top of that SBMM should not just look at team averages only, but also try to balance the individual players more (it may be a bit loose ofcourse, but not as extreme as now). There should just be a maximum skill gap between all players in a match, so you don’t get those extremes.
Another problem is that MMR is the same for all modes/playlists, even though some people might play differently on them. I think there should be 2 different MMR’s: 1 for social team matches and 1 for FFA matches (because some people do better with a team and some without it)
And yes, i don’t mention a ranked MMR, because ranked matches should just be made based on your rank (CSR). This is more logical (if you are in a to low rank, you should win easily and rank up and not be held back by matching against higher ranks) and second because a lot of people also don’t understand why they keep matching (way) higher ranked players and find it unfair. And yes, that means that ranked matches can be lopsided sometimes, if there is a player that hasn’t have a correct rank that fits his skill. But this will also be resolved because of that. (and the placement matches also prevent the biggest imbalances, since it will let you start in an higher rank if you are a good player).
And last i will mention: there should be better team matching. A team of 4 solo players is just worse then a full stacked team, even though if all the individual players would be the same skill. I think it’s fine if 4 solo’s play against a duo + 2 solo’s and if a full stack goes against 2 duo’s or a trio+solo. That should perhaps be prioritized a bit more.
*i know there are also smurfers who deliberately trank there MMR, but that is a relatively small part of that total. But 343 should definitely ban those smurfers and their main account, since it is clear griefing (you are deliberately throwing matches at first to get that low rating). Unfortunately 343 doesn’t take it seriously. Alt accounts are fine, as long as you play seriously ofcourse and not throw matches to tank your MMR just to afterwards when you get a easy match just go stomping.
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My friend’s experience has been that we mostly play together but then when he tries to play by himself it is miserable for him.
The more we play, the more I have come to see that there are 2 main issues. One is the cross-playlist hidden MMR and the other is that the current system counts every kill the same, so if you get a bunch of kills against some bots in Fiesta, they count the same as getting a bunch of kills against Onyx 1900 in Team Slayer. Changing one or both of those things would be a great first start to improving the SBMM.
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Dont quote me but I think how it works is how you perform on the team surrounded by higher rated players. So if you continually get 20+ kills surrounded by higher MMR players it will increase your MMR as you are outslaying better players.
Which would be fine but many high level players wont put any effort into Bot Bootcamp so it would be easy for a player to fly above their proper MMR due to this. I understand why you would allow Bot Bootcamp to affect MMR from a development perspective, unfortunately it hasn’t panned out practically. I think they should match Bot Bootcamp based on MMR still but not allow it to have any affect on MMR.
I am still a firm believe in all PvP playlists affecting MMr though although certani modes should be far looser/separate such as Grifball/Action Sack as the skillset is massively different. (Maybe data would disagree, I personally don’t think they correlate well).
Greetings, fellow GDC talk listener, I too love player retention.
Would you be referring to the fact that SBMM has helped Halo Infinite only lose 95% of its players?
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FALSE if the 1% halo is great players you still have 99% that aren’t… So the odds are more in playing against okay players. Not sweatier players lol
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