Sanghelios Civil War

Does anyone know if 343i plans on updating us on the state of Sanghelios? The Glasslands trilogy was pointed in that direction, and set us up for what I believed would be a climax involving Telcam, The Arbiter, and to some extent, the fate of 'Jul, and then (likely under direction of 343i) Traviss just dropped the whole plot arc for the boring human-terrorist on plant-we-don’t-care-about.

Things I hope are addressed -

Jul shows up on planet with extremely-religious-but-backward Sanghelli. How’d he come up with all this nice hardware (cruisers, war equipment, etc) that we see in H4/Spops? He was a follower previously, how does he become a charismatic, motivating leader and pull together a huge force to follow him blindly to Requiem? (I also can’t remember how he learned of Requiem’s location).

Telcam - is he dead yet? Is the civil war on Sanghelios over? Obviously arbiter made it through, although I bet Traviss would’ve enjoyed killing him off in some stupid way. Ultimately, have the Sanghelli on Sanghelios been united for a common purpose, to help
humanity?

The Arbiter - has he learned of ONI’s outright treachery? If so, has he forgiven the meddling of humans and breach of trust? The Arbiter is a multi-time galactic hero. First, stopping the firing of Delta Halo, second for his role in stopping Truth on the Ark and firing 04B along with 117. If I were him and I caught humanity arming and encouraging my enemies, I’d have a difficult time trusting them ever again, and I’d want Parangosky/Osman’s head as proof of loyalty.

Based on the jumps made from Silentum to halo 4’s vengeful, utterly boring Ur-Didact, I don’t have confidence that this stuff will be fleshed out within a game. I wonder if other media is planned to bridge us into halo 5, where it is clear the Arbiter is assisting
ONI in some task against the JulCovenant (per MCC terminals).

Also, apologies if I missed some things/failed to recall things from the books. I think I slept through half of the Traviss series, especially the last one.

I think that 343 have effectively rolled the so called Sangheili ‘civil war’ into the greater post-Schism conflict between the newly emerging separatist Covenant factions and the reformed Covenant remnant.

Kilo-5 is an absolutely terrible source to cite from due to its unreliability continuality wise through regarding the conflict on Sangheilios, post 2553 I’d say its pretty likely the planet is controlled by the Arbiter’s followers as they did drive the reformist ships out of the system which would cut off any reformist Covenant ground troops still on the Home-world.

Halo Escalation seemed to suggest that post schism what was once the unified Covenant empire has now fractured into multiple warring factions, with the Arbiter’s separatist forces and the forces under Jul’ Mdama just two Covenant successor factions out of many, kind of like how the Roman Empire use to fracture into warring factions under competing General’s and armies whenever there was a crisis of succession.

As for ONI, I’m really hoping 343 see reason and end this ridiculous sub plot by ONI to try and destabilise the Arbiter’s supporters which seemingly goes against all logic as the Arbiter’s faction is the UNSC’s only effective ally post 2553 and with a re-insurgent Insurrection in the form of the NCA ONI should have its hands full making sure no more human colonies declare independence.

I really think ONI are going to do something characteristically stupid which could well result in the Arbiter deciding the NCA would make a more dependable candidate to control human affairs then the UNSC, which could see a an armed Sangheili supported Insurrectionist takeover of Earth with an effort to dismantle the UNSC and ONI at its powerbase.

I think Halo 5 will have us gain the Arbiter’s trust as Locke by helping him protect Sanghelios from Covenant Remnants…

please fill me in with what ONI did to arbiter please.

> 2533274944243845;4:
> please fill me in with what ONI did to arbiter please.

As of The Thursday War ONI was supplying the Arbiter’s opponent’s headed by Teclam with weapons and equipment in order to launch an armed uprising against the Arbiter, seemingly in an effort to weaken the Sangheili as a race so they would not pose a threat to a still recovering humanity.

How exactly ONI was able to get its hands on the hundreds of thousands of Covenant issue small-arms needed to kick-start an armed insurgency is never really explained, seeing as plasma and directed energy weapons remained firmly outside the UNSC manufacturing capability throughout the entire course of the war.

Similarly exactly why Teclam, who is opposed to the Arbiter for his human friendly policies would accept assistance from humans in order to overthrow a human friendly Sangheili government is never really explained either.

I always kind of hoped it would turn out either Teclam was playing ONI or it would turn out the Arbiter was assisting the newly reborn human insurgency in an attempt to weaken the UNSC, but nothing of the sort ever materialized.

Haven’t brought myself to read the third book of Kilo-5 as have been busy with better books, Halo Broken Circle included but that was the situation as of the end of the second book.

Now to play Zombiecide.

> 2533274853837831;5:
> > 2533274944243845;4:
> > please fill me in with what ONI did to arbiter please.
>
>
> As of The Thursday War ONI was supplying the Arbiter’s opponent’s headed by Teclam with weapons and equipment in order to launch an armed uprising against the Arbiter, seemingly in an effort to weaken the Sangheili as a race so they would not pose a threat to a still recovering humanity.
>
> How exactly ONI was able to get its hands on the hundreds of thousands of Covenant issue small-arms needed to kick-start an armed insurgency is never really explained, seeing as plasma and directed energy weapons remained firmly outside the UNSC manufacturing capability throughout the entire course of the war.
>
> Similarly exactly why Teclam, who is opposed to the Arbiter for his human friendly policies would accept assistance from humans in order to overthrow a human friendly Sangheili government is never really explained either.
>
> I always kind of hoped it would turn out either Teclam was playing ONI or it would turn out the Arbiter was assisting the newly reborn human insurgency in an attempt to weaken the UNSC, but nothing of the sort ever materialized.
>
> Haven’t brought myself to read the third book of Kilo-5 as have been busy with better books, Halo Broken Circle included but that was the situation as of the end of the second book.
>
> Now to play Zombiecide.

ok now I’m angry at ONI they’re only friend and they want to backstab him what a shame.

> 2533274809255188;1:
> The Arbiter - has he learned of ONI’s outright treachery? If so, has he forgiven the meddling of humans and breach of trust? The Arbiter is a multi-time galactic hero. First, stopping the firing of Delta Halo, second for his role in stopping Truth on the Ark and firing 04B along with 117. If I were him and I caught humanity arming and encouraging my enemies, I’d have a difficult time trusting them ever again, and I’d want Parangosky/Osman’s head as proof of loyalty.

Hero? He is less of a hero and more of a war criminal that is being given a free pass. Everything he does is to save his own skin.

The moment The Arbiter demands anyone’s head is the moment Humanity demands his head for the millions upon millions of people he murdered in the name of hypocrisy. That Joker has no business demanding anything.

The Arbiter needs to face justice. I really hope he dies at the hands of ONI. Humanity can do better.

He’s easily earned forgiveness for the billions of humans he exterminated by helping chief stop the flood in h3 and preventing the death of all sentient life in halo 2.

Sound like you’d exterminate all former Covenent. Unless you think only leaders deserve to be punished?

> 2533274809255188;8:
> He’s easily earned forgiveness for the billions of humans he exterminated by helping chief stop the flood in h3 and preventing the death of all sentient life in halo 2.
>
> Sound like you’d exterminate all former Covenent. Unless you think only leaders deserve to be punished?

I don’t want former Covenant races to be exterminated, but someone has to be held accountable for what happened. I believe that is what ONI is SORTA trying to do. I believe that the likes of Osman/Parangosky realize that the Sangheili will ALWAYS act in their best interest.

The Arbiter is the representative of his species - a species which carried out a horrific genocide on the Human race - a species which commanded the Covenant Military for all but a fraction of the known battles during the war - the species which directed the front line onslaught of death. It would be infeasable to punish EVERY Sangheili for what they did…but their leaders should punished. Regardless of his assistance to stop The Flood or stop the activation of Installation 05 / The Ark, he still has crimes to answer for. You cannot wash away blood with acts of self preservation. The Arbiter and Sangheili simply acted in their own best interests, like they always did.

He has earned no forgiveness.

> 2533274800842897;9:
> Everything he does is to save his own skin.

Thel doesn’t act in his own interests most of the time, and from what I’ve seen he acts in his own interests none of the times when it comes to the big decisions he has made since becoming Arbiter. An individual who was tasked with carrying the mantle of Arbiter as a sacrificial pawn of the Hierarchs by definition cannot act in their own interests.

Beyond that initial role, electing to spare Earth at the risk of Flood contamination and at a very probable risk to his future leadership doesn’t suggest to me someone who is motivated by trying to save their own skin.

When one looks at his decision to promise peace with humanity and how that was unpopular enough to put his life in constant danger from constant assassination attempts to outright rebellions that almost saw his leadership ended, I’m again confused at where you are stretching this from.

> The moment The Arbiter demands anyone’s head is the moment Humanity demands his head for the millions upon millions of people he murdered in the name of hypocrisy.

In the name of hypocrisy? Do you mind explaining where you got that from, and what that even means?

> That Joker has no business demanding anything.

The terms that Hood and Thel agreed to were for each to leave each other alone, rebuild and leave the past behind. I don’t recall that there was a clause that allowed the UNSC to break that settlement on the basis of revenge or morality, so he does have the right to demand answers and action for that specific agreement being broken especially given that he has kept to his end of the agreement.

In practical terms, he represents the interests of many innocent Sangheili who were unaffiliated with the war. He is morally obligated to protect them from being slaughtered by ONI’s special brand of morality which is just as bad as the one the Sangheili have just left behind.

> The Arbiter needs to face justice. I really hope he dies at the hands of ONI. Humanity can do better

No, humanity cannot do better. No other Covenant leader has been shown to be both as willing and as capable as Thel in being able to lend help to the UNSC should they need it; he provides a strong and co-operative bulwark against the likes of Jul 'Mdama, ex-Covenant Loyalists and marauding warlords and pirates; no one else has approached the UNSC offering Covenant information archives and Covenant weapons experiments and research.

The Arbiter facing justice is what the cold and uncaring universe would call a luxury for the human race, a luxury that said species can ill afford to indulge in.

> but someone has to be held accountable for what happened

No they don’t. Someone is held accountable for what happened if they were actually accountable for what happened. The people who are responsible for the war and the planning of the war are all dead - the Heirarchs and the High Councillors. What you describe sounds more like a witch hunt than anything else, seeking to point fingers for nothing other than the satisfaction of doing so, and the seeking of a scapegoat. That kind of approach to delivering justice strikes me as being immoral, really.

> I believe that is what ONI is SORTA trying to do

Parangosky made it clear at the start of Glasslands that Kilo-5 was intended to keep the Sangheili infighting until they were ready to finish the job. She isn’t interested in delivering justice to specific individuals, she just wants to drag the human race down to the same level the Covenant were on.

Furthermore, they are doing a -Yoink- job of it too, and their actions are less likely to achieve that end and more likely to wind up with humanity getting put down for good. I’ve seen better black ops work from a toddler after the cookie jar.

> I believe that the likes of Osman/Parangosky realize that the Sangheili will ALWAYS act in their best interest.

Uh-huh. That’s also what Lord Hood realizes. That’s also what Thel realizes. Hood and Thel both know that, and they also both know that Hood will always act in Humanity’s best interests too. Do you know what those two did at that point? The same thing they tried to do with Lydus before 'Gajat gatecrashed the proceedings. To work out a strategy for the future that ensures that significant interests do not conflict, always align and become mutually beneficial, because anyone with half a brain cell can realize that most people will act in their own interests most of the time and that conflicts of interest can and will arise if left unchecked.

Osman and Parangosky are just lazy, overpaid and clearly under-qualified individuals that have a personal vendetta to fulfil. Nothing more.

> It would be infeasable to punish EVERY Sangheili for what they did

It would also be immoral. For someone using morality as the central basis for why Thel should be killed, you were rather negligent in omitting that from the reason why every Sangheili should not be “punished”.

> He has earned no forgiveness

I think that’s up to individuals to decide, really.
.

prosised

> 2533274800842897;7:
> > 2533274809255188;1:
> > The Arbiter - has he learned of ONI’s outright treachery? If so, has he forgiven the meddling of humans and breach of trust? The Arbiter is a multi-time galactic hero. First, stopping the firing of Delta Halo, second for his role in stopping Truth on the Ark and firing 04B along with 117. If I were him and I caught humanity arming and encouraging my enemies, I’d have a difficult time trusting them ever again, and I’d want Parangosky/Osman’s head as proof of loyalty.
>
>
> Hero? He is less of a hero and more of a war criminal that is being given a free pass. Everything he does is to save his own skin.
>
> The moment The Arbiter demands anyone’s head is the moment Humanity demands his head for the millions upon millions of people he murdered in the name of hypocrisy. That Joker has no business demanding anything.
>
> The Arbiter needs to face justice. I really hope he dies at the hands of ONI. Humanity can do better.

I think you completely miss-understand the context of the Halo Universe post 2552.

Regardless of the morality of the Arbiter’s actions the UNSC was on its knees post 2553, its military and civilian infrastructure were all but destroyed. They were in know position to demand anything.

Yes the Arbiter presided over horrific acts of mass-murder during the war though he also risked his own life to ensure Earth was liberated and the billions of surviving humans spared assimilation and annihilation by both the Flood and the Halo array.

As far as I’m aware neither Parangosky nor Osman ever put themselves in harms way to protect human lives, the Arbiter did. These are hardly the actions of a war criminal.

If fact I’d go so far as to say that Parangosky herself is a borderline war criminal in terms of shear incompetence. ONI was responsible for providing the Navy with Intelligence in order to plan its military strategy against the Covenant, yet throughout the course of the entire war there only concern seemed to be convincing the public they were winning their defensive campaign against the Covenant, which they weren’t. The war lasted 28 years and during that entire time the UNSC had no compression of who they were fighting or why, or where the Covenant’s capital or home-world’s were located.

This should have been Parangosky’s top priority to find out. What was her department doing for 28 years except sprouting propaganda and hoarding resources for a seemingly useless super-ship. (Infinity)

If the Arbiter really was the self-serving tyrant you seem to believe he is, then once he returned from the Ark it would have been a simple enough matter for him to have ordered his fleet to glass Earth as with the Flood defeated and threat of the Halo’s ended his alliance with humanity had no further tangible benefits.

As I said before regardless of the Arbiter’s actions post 2552 he remains probably the only Sangheili of sufficient position and influence with his race who does not want to see humanity subjugated or eradicated. For ONI to weaken his position only jeopardizes their own as there is not way the UNSC could stand up to a renewed and united Covenant offensive in its current state.

Parangosky and Osman are allowing either their personnel hatred or ambition to influence their decisions rather then sound logic. You can’t make those kinds of mistakes when enslavement or sovereignty hangs in the balance.

At the end of the day you need to work with those who are willing to work with your for mutual benefit, even if you may despise them.

I hope it will be fleshed out.

crook, your augment reminds me of post-wwii treatment of -Yoink!- officials. or the aftermath of religious war. at some point on earth (we’re not there today) we’ll realize we’re all human and we need to stop murdering each other over differences. similarly, in the halo univers, there is a catalyst for uniting all sentient life under the philosophy of the mantle: the flood. Neither humanity nor Sanghelli, nor any other species can truly stand against the flood alone. forerunners disarmed all other upcoming species and met their end because of their failure to combat the flood. will humanity repeat those mistakes by quelling all other capable life besides itself?

> 2533274809255188;13:
> crook, your augment reminds me of post-wwii treatment of -Yoink!- officials.

I don’t think America are planning on recruiting the Arbiter any time soon.