Sangheili (Elites) In New Trilogy Matchmaking (Part 1)

Games Halo 5: Guardians
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> > > 2535438002035715;19136:
> > > It would be spectacular if in Halo Infinite they made a playable DLC with the Shangeili, or a possible Spin off where you play with the Shangeili.
> >
> > Yeah, I think most people would be ok with Sangheili being relegated to custom games, an Invasion type mode, and a PvE type mode, as long as we would be able to play as a Sangheili.
>
> To be honest, yeah. I’d be fine with them going the Reach way with Sangheili, better that than nothing. Although, it would be ironic. 343 are trying to give people player expression, and if you can’t even play as an Elite in regular matchmaking, how is that player expression?
>
> 343 continues to contradict themselves. I’m not saying that as an insult, just an observation.

Agreed, better in that way than not at all. But it would really suck if that was the case. The thing that holds Reach back is the fact that that’s the case, along with the lack of piece by piece customisation for Elites, which is why I’ve been bogged down the the Customs Browser ever since it dropped because it’s the only place I can go to play as an Elite with Spartans at my side in a game I enjoy.

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> 2533274810025449;19140:
> > 2533274821485400;19139:
> > > 2535438002035715;19136:
> > > It would be spectacular if in Halo Infinite they made a playable DLC with the Shangeili, or a possible Spin off where you play with the Shangeili.
> >
> > Yeah, I think most people would be ok with Sangheili being relegated to custom games, an Invasion type mode, and a PvE type mode, as long as we would be able to play as a Sangheili.
>
> To be honest, yeah. I’d be fine with them going the Reach way with Sangheili, better that than nothing. Although, it would be ironic. 343 are trying to give people player expression, and if you can’t even play as an Elite in regular matchmaking, how is that player expression?
>
> 343 continues to contradict themselves. I’m not saying that as an insult, just an observation.

I mean, I understand why it is so hard to balance them for matchmaking because I have heard all of the arguments against their being added to the game on account for the hitboxes.

I personally like the Reach way a lot more, because it removes the headache in having to worry about balance because Invasion isn’t really expected to be balanced to begin with. You go in knowing that Spartans play a certain way and that Elites are like Spartans but they’re different because they’re bigger and have different equipment/react differently to certain mechanics. Also because I really liked the idea of them being taller than Spartans.

When you have them in every matchmaking gamemode, people get angry because the hitboxes are off, and honestly I do not fault them for it. When you put them in matchmaking, two things need to happen:

  • You have to scale the hitbox such that it is exactly or to a satisfactory extent, like a Spartan’s; - You have to tweak the animations such that they are comparable to a Spartan’s; and - You have to do all that whilst maintaining what makes the model of an Elite different from that of a Spartan’s.When you have to have a traditionally spartan game accompany elites, the accepted narrative is that you have to really glue them, as much as possible, to Spartans, which limits you as to what creative freedom you’re allowed to take with the elites.

I really could just be talking a bunch of -Yoink- though, cause really? I just loved the way Reach did it because ever since Reach, I thought of elites as their own thing, based solely on how Bungie gave them distinct differences to Spartans.

I don’t know, which method is easier?

  • Going the Halo 3 method, only now you REALLY have to crack down on the model differences between Elites and Spartans because the newer Halos are now much more competitive and thus need to have that crisp balance. This would mean needing to do the horrible task of balancing keeping what makes elites different with making them viable for competitive (that is to say, making them as close to Spartans as possible); or - Going the Reach method, where 343 can use the new Halo 4/5 Elite models or the Classic-esque ones (could be a new customization option maybe?), and delegate Playable elites to social modes and of course, Invasion. This, obviously giving them the freedom to make elites different (IE. having larger models, maybe having slightly different stats, et cetera) and thus, now you can put them in custom games and any other social game modes (or have a competitive Elite vs Elite gamemode) without having to worry too much about the balance (to an extent. You still obviously have to balance them, but Social is more laxxed than Competitive when it comes to balance).Both require work, there’s no easy solution.

But people, I find, love going with option 3:

  1. Ignore anyone who wants playable elites because Waypoint Statistics say that 0.000003% of the community actually used them. They’re making 343 do more work. They’re distracting the development team from focusing on more important things like gun bloom. Screw them, they’re not true Halo fans.
19145

> 2533275013567761;19144:
> > 2533274810025449;19140:
> > > 2533274821485400;19139:
> > > > 2535438002035715;19136:
> > > > It would be spectacular if in Halo Infinite they made a playable DLC with the Shangeili, or a possible Spin off where you play with the Shangeili.
> > >
> > > Yeah, I think most people would be ok with Sangheili being relegated to custom games, an Invasion type mode, and a PvE type mode, as long as we would be able to play as a Sangheili.
> >
> > To be honest, yeah. I’d be fine with them going the Reach way with Sangheili, better that than nothing. Although, it would be ironic. 343 are trying to give people player expression, and if you can’t even play as an Elite in regular matchmaking, how is that player expression?
> >
> > 343 continues to contradict themselves. I’m not saying that as an insult, just an observation.
>
> I mean, I understand why it is so hard to balance them for matchmaking because I have heard all of the arguments against their being added to the game on account for the hitboxes.
>
> I personally like the Reach way a lot more, because it removes the headache in having to worry about balance because Invasion isn’t really expected to be balanced to begin with. You go in knowing that Spartans play a certain way and that Elites are like Spartans but they’re different because they’re bigger and have different equipment/react differently to certain mechanics. Also because I really liked the idea of them being taller than Spartans.
>
> When you have them in every matchmaking gamemode, people get angry because the hitboxes are off, and honestly I do not fault them for it. When you put them in matchmaking, two things need to happen:
>
>
> - You have to scale the hitbox such that it is exactly or to a satisfactory extent, like a Spartan’s; - You have to tweak the animations such that they are comparable to a Spartan’s; and - You have to do all that whilst maintaining what makes the model of an Elite different from that of a Spartan’s.When you have to have a traditionally spartan game accompany elites, the accepted narrative is that you have to really glue them, as much as possible, to Spartans, which limits you as to what creative freedom you’re allowed to take with the elites.
>
> I really could just be talking a bunch of -Yoink- though, cause really? I just loved the way Reach did it because ever since Reach, I thought of elites as their own thing, based solely on how Bungie gave them distinct differences to Spartans.
>
> I don’t know, which method is easier?
>
>
> - Going the Halo 3 method, only now you REALLY have to crack down on the model differences between Elites and Spartans because the newer Halos are now much more competitive and thus need to have that crisp balance. This would mean needing to do the horrible task of balancing keeping what makes elites different with making them viable for competitive (that is to say, making them as close to Spartans as possible); or - Going the Reach method, where 343 can use the new Halo 4/5 Elite models or the Classic-esque ones (could be a new customization option maybe?), and delegate Playable elites to social modes and of course, Invasion. This, obviously giving them the freedom to make elites different (IE. having larger models, maybe having slightly different stats, et cetera) and thus, now you can put them in custom games and any other social game modes (or have a competitive Elite vs Elite gamemode) without having to worry too much about the balance (to an extent. You still obviously have to balance them, but Social is more laxxed than Competitive when it comes to balance).Both require work, there’s no easy solution.
>
> But people, I find, love going with option 3:
>
> 3. Ignore anyone who wants playable elites because Waypoint Statistics say that 0.000003% of the community actually used them. They’re making 343 do more work. They’re distracting the development team from focusing on more important things like gun bloom. Screw them, they’re not true Halo fans.

My opinion, I rather have the Halo 2/ 3/ 2A MP type of Elites where you can play them in any game mode, even if it means taking away a lot of the differences they have from Spartans. Though, since Halo Infinite’s MP takes place in a simulation like Halo 4 and 5 it might be possible lore wise to have the playable Elites be the same height standing up as the Spartan IVs. I hope I am making sense.

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Halo: Reach Invasion was a one of a kind mode. Not balanced but very cool imo. Sad it probably will never return in a future installment.

19147

> 2533275013567761;19144:
> > 2533274810025449;19140:
> > > 2533274821485400;19139:
> > > > 2535438002035715;19136:
> > > > It would be spectacular if in Halo Infinite they made a playable DLC with the Shangeili, or a possible Spin off where you play with the Shangeili.
> > >
> > > Yeah, I think most people would be ok with Sangheili being relegated to custom games, an Invasion type mode, and a PvE type mode, as long as we would be able to play as a Sangheili.
> >
> > To be honest, yeah. I’d be fine with them going the Reach way with Sangheili, better that than nothing. Although, it would be ironic. 343 are trying to give people player expression, and if you can’t even play as an Elite in regular matchmaking, how is that player expression?
> >
> > 343 continues to contradict themselves. I’m not saying that as an insult, just an observation.
>
> I mean, I understand why it is so hard to balance them for matchmaking because I have heard all of the arguments against their being added to the game on account for the hitboxes.
>
> I personally like the Reach way a lot more, because it removes the headache in having to worry about balance because Invasion isn’t really expected to be balanced to begin with. You go in knowing that Spartans play a certain way and that Elites are like Spartans but they’re different because they’re bigger and have different equipment/react differently to certain mechanics. Also because I really liked the idea of them being taller than Spartans.
>
> When you have them in every matchmaking gamemode, people get angry because the hitboxes are off, and honestly I do not fault them for it. When you put them in matchmaking, two things need to happen:
>
>
> - You have to scale the hitbox such that it is exactly or to a satisfactory extent, like a Spartan’s; - You have to tweak the animations such that they are comparable to a Spartan’s; and - You have to do all that whilst maintaining what makes the model of an Elite different from that of a Spartan’s.When you have to have a traditionally spartan game accompany elites, the accepted narrative is that you have to really glue them, as much as possible, to Spartans, which limits you as to what creative freedom you’re allowed to take with the elites.
>
> I really could just be talking a bunch of -Yoink- though, cause really? I just loved the way Reach did it because ever since Reach, I thought of elites as their own thing, based solely on how Bungie gave them distinct differences to Spartans.
>
> I don’t know, which method is easier?
>
>
> - Going the Halo 3 method, only now you REALLY have to crack down on the model differences between Elites and Spartans because the newer Halos are now much more competitive and thus need to have that crisp balance. This would mean needing to do the horrible task of balancing keeping what makes elites different with making them viable for competitive (that is to say, making them as close to Spartans as possible); or - Going the Reach method, where 343 can use the new Halo 4/5 Elite models or the Classic-esque ones (could be a new customization option maybe?), and delegate Playable elites to social modes and of course, Invasion. This, obviously giving them the freedom to make elites different (IE. having larger models, maybe having slightly different stats, et cetera) and thus, now you can put them in custom games and any other social game modes (or have a competitive Elite vs Elite gamemode) without having to worry too much about the balance (to an extent. You still obviously have to balance them, but Social is more laxxed than Competitive when it comes to balance).Both require work, there’s no easy solution.
>
> But people, I find, love going with option 3:
>
> 3. Ignore anyone who wants playable elites because Waypoint Statistics say that 0.000003% of the community actually used them. They’re making 343 do more work. They’re distracting the development team from focusing on more important things like gun bloom. Screw them, they’re not true Halo fans

  1. Tweak the hitboxes to be the same as Spartans. I’ve given multiple suggestions in past pages.

Personally, I really don’t care if the hitboxes are fair or not. I’m a big time social player who just likes to mess around in multiplayer matches. I don’t care if it’s balanced, as long as it’s fun. I would like for the hitboxes to be the same, but it’s not a priority of mine. Besides, Halo 3 elite hitboxes are broken and I get plenty of kills anyway.

Complainers gonna complain. If they get mad because the hitboxes aren’t fair, they need to grow up, shut up, and deal. People are going to complain no matter what, I’ve just stopped caring,

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> 2533274807825221;7:
> The reason why Elites might not be in H4 multiplayer would be purely gameplay related, not to do with any convenient backstory they conjure up. Elites are way too big compared to even the biggest Spartan, I think Bungie realised this and thats why we have the hunched over dinos of H3 and the massive different play style models of Elites in Reach.
>
> Its tricky.

I think exactly like you.

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> > 2533275013567761;19144:
> > > 2533274810025449;19140:
> > > > 2533274821485400;19139:
> > > > > 2535438002035715;19136:
> > > > > It would be spectacular if in Halo Infinite they made a playable DLC with the Shangeili, or a possible Spin off where you play with the Shangeili.
> > > >
> > > > Yeah, I think most people would be ok with Sangheili being relegated to custom games, an Invasion type mode, and a PvE type mode, as long as we would be able to play as a Sangheili.
> > >
> > > To be honest, yeah. I’d be fine with them going the Reach way with Sangheili, better that than nothing. Although, it would be ironic. 343 are trying to give people player expression, and if you can’t even play as an Elite in regular matchmaking, how is that player expression?
> > >
> > > 343 continues to contradict themselves. I’m not saying that as an insult, just an observation.
> >
> > I mean, I understand why it is so hard to balance them for matchmaking because I have heard all of the arguments against their being added to the game on account for the hitboxes.
> >
> > I personally like the Reach way a lot more, because it removes the headache in having to worry about balance because Invasion isn’t really expected to be balanced to begin with. You go in knowing that Spartans play a certain way and that Elites are like Spartans but they’re different because they’re bigger and have different equipment/react differently to certain mechanics. Also because I really liked the idea of them being taller than Spartans.
> >
> > When you have them in every matchmaking gamemode, people get angry because the hitboxes are off, and honestly I do not fault them for it. When you put them in matchmaking, two things need to happen:
> >
> >
> > - You have to scale the hitbox such that it is exactly or to a satisfactory extent, like a Spartan’s; - You have to tweak the animations such that they are comparable to a Spartan’s; and - You have to do all that whilst maintaining what makes the model of an Elite different from that of a Spartan’s.When you have to have a traditionally spartan game accompany elites, the accepted narrative is that you have to really glue them, as much as possible, to Spartans, which limits you as to what creative freedom you’re allowed to take with the elites.
> >
> > I really could just be talking a bunch of -Yoink- though, cause really? I just loved the way Reach did it because ever since Reach, I thought of elites as their own thing, based solely on how Bungie gave them distinct differences to Spartans.
> >
> > I don’t know, which method is easier?
> >
> >
> > - Going the Halo 3 method, only now you REALLY have to crack down on the model differences between Elites and Spartans because the newer Halos are now much more competitive and thus need to have that crisp balance. This would mean needing to do the horrible task of balancing keeping what makes elites different with making them viable for competitive (that is to say, making them as close to Spartans as possible); or - Going the Reach method, where 343 can use the new Halo 4/5 Elite models or the Classic-esque ones (could be a new customization option maybe?), and delegate Playable elites to social modes and of course, Invasion. This, obviously giving them the freedom to make elites different (IE. having larger models, maybe having slightly different stats, et cetera) and thus, now you can put them in custom games and any other social game modes (or have a competitive Elite vs Elite gamemode) without having to worry too much about the balance (to an extent. You still obviously have to balance them, but Social is more laxxed than Competitive when it comes to balance).Both require work, there’s no easy solution.
> >
> > But people, I find, love going with option 3:
> >
> > 3. Ignore anyone who wants playable elites because Waypoint Statistics say that 0.000003% of the community actually used them. They’re making 343 do more work. They’re distracting the development team from focusing on more important things like gun bloom. Screw them, they’re not true Halo fans
>
> 4. Tweak the hitboxes to be the same as Spartans. I’ve given multiple suggestions in past pages.
>
> Personally, I really don’t care if the hitboxes are fair or not. I’m a big time social player who just likes to mess around in multiplayer matches. I don’t care if it’s balanced, as long as it’s fun. I would like for the hitboxes to be the same, but it’s not a priority of mine. Besides, Halo 3 elite hitboxes are broken and I get plenty of kills anyway.
>
> Complainers gonna complain. If they get mad because the hitboxes aren’t fair, they need to grow up, shut up, and deal. People are going to complain no matter what, I’ve just stopped caring,

I say sc**w the hitbox argument. The people who whine about hitboxes would rather that the Halo sandbox be a garden. I say let it be a jungle! Let it be as vast, wild and untamed as the potential universe of lore that Halo could be if we stopped focusing so heavily on things from a human standpoint. If competitive people seriously cannot cope with a target that is typically easier to kill than a Spartan due to being larger, more obvious and much easier to snipe, then they are quite simply, not as good as they think they are. If people really find ways to complain about more options being added for the benefit of all niches of players big and small, then what reason do we have to listen to them? Simply put, they’re hating on our parade. They would hate anything that wasn’t the same boring humans in suits of armour over and over again that are easy to predict. Forerunners forbid the ability to play as a Sangheili warrior, or a Jiralhanae warlord, or an Unggoy demolitionist, a Kig-Yar pirate, San’Shyuum Prelate, Yanme’e Drone or a Promethean Knight.

Imagine the fun and the stories of gameplay that go never to be told because a few in the vocal minority said “but the game needs to be balanced so I can have a perfect K/D ratio”. Imagine the great times that are yet to be had because they argued for the same experience over and over. Or worse yet, an experience that wasn’t the same, but was less than the last? Who cares what these people think? I wouldn’t ignore them completely of course, let them have their niche, but their niche should not be sacrificed for ours- the one of options and playability for all. And likewise, as much as I disagree with the very reasonings of their niche and would argue that they should at least let Elites be playable in competitive modes, theirs should not be sacrificed for ours either. Sure, I wouldn’t personally have a problem if it was but they would and it would create far too many arguments and before we know it we may well end up in the same position we are now with only Spartans being playable again.

In other words, let gameplay be a jungle. Keep a few gardens if you must, but let the rest be a wild expanse which we can be forever unable to predict.

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> > 2533275013567761;19144:
> > > 2533274810025449;19140:
> > > > 2533274821485400;19139:
> > > > > 2535438002035715;19136:
> > > > > It would be spectacular if in Halo Infinite they made a playable DLC with the Shangeili, or a possible Spin off where you play with the Shangeili.
> > > >
> > > > Yeah, I think most people would be ok with Sangheili being relegated to custom games, an Invasion type mode, and a PvE type mode, as long as we would be able to play as a Sangheili.
> > >
> > > To be honest, yeah. I’d be fine with them going the Reach way with Sangheili, better that than nothing. Although, it would be ironic. 343 are trying to give people player expression, and if you can’t even play as an Elite in regular matchmaking, how is that player expression?
> > >
> > > 343 continues to contradict themselves. I’m not saying that as an insult, just an observation.
> >
> > I mean, I understand why it is so hard to balance them for matchmaking because I have heard all of the arguments against their being added to the game on account for the hitboxes.
> >
> > I personally like the Reach way a lot more, because it removes the headache in having to worry about balance because Invasion isn’t really expected to be balanced to begin with. You go in knowing that Spartans play a certain way and that Elites are like Spartans but they’re different because they’re bigger and have different equipment/react differently to certain mechanics. Also because I really liked the idea of them being taller than Spartans.
> >
> > When you have them in every matchmaking gamemode, people get angry because the hitboxes are off, and honestly I do not fault them for it. When you put them in matchmaking, two things need to happen:
> >
> >
> > - You have to scale the hitbox such that it is exactly or to a satisfactory extent, like a Spartan’s; - You have to tweak the animations such that they are comparable to a Spartan’s; and - You have to do all that whilst maintaining what makes the model of an Elite different from that of a Spartan’s.When you have to have a traditionally spartan game accompany elites, the accepted narrative is that you have to really glue them, as much as possible, to Spartans, which limits you as to what creative freedom you’re allowed to take with the elites.
> >
> > I really could just be talking a bunch of -Yoink- though, cause really? I just loved the way Reach did it because ever since Reach, I thought of elites as their own thing, based solely on how Bungie gave them distinct differences to Spartans.
> >
> > I don’t know, which method is easier?
> >
> >
> > - Going the Halo 3 method, only now you REALLY have to crack down on the model differences between Elites and Spartans because the newer Halos are now much more competitive and thus need to have that crisp balance. This would mean needing to do the horrible task of balancing keeping what makes elites different with making them viable for competitive (that is to say, making them as close to Spartans as possible); or - Going the Reach method, where 343 can use the new Halo 4/5 Elite models or the Classic-esque ones (could be a new customization option maybe?), and delegate Playable elites to social modes and of course, Invasion. This, obviously giving them the freedom to make elites different (IE. having larger models, maybe having slightly different stats, et cetera) and thus, now you can put them in custom games and any other social game modes (or have a competitive Elite vs Elite gamemode) without having to worry too much about the balance (to an extent. You still obviously have to balance them, but Social is more laxxed than Competitive when it comes to balance).Both require work, there’s no easy solution.
> >
> > But people, I find, love going with option 3:
> >
> > 3. Ignore anyone who wants playable elites because Waypoint Statistics say that 0.000003% of the community actually used them. They’re making 343 do more work. They’re distracting the development team from focusing on more important things like gun bloom. Screw them, they’re not true Halo fans
>
> 4. Tweak the hitboxes to be the same as Spartans. I’ve given multiple suggestions in past pages.
>
> Personally, I really don’t care if the hitboxes are fair or not. I’m a big time social player who just likes to mess around in multiplayer matches. I don’t care if it’s balanced, as long as it’s fun. I would like for the hitboxes to be the same, but it’s not a priority of mine. Besides, Halo 3 elite hitboxes are broken and I get plenty of kills anyway.
>
> Complainers gonna complain. If they get mad because the hitboxes aren’t fair, they need to grow up, shut up, and deal. People are going to complain no matter what, I’ve just stopped caring,

Number 1 of my original post is your Number 4. I see a lot of people don’t care about the hitboxes and that’s fine but if I were to choose I’d definitely choose the Reach method because, conceptually and gameplay wise, I love embracing the idea that Elites are different from spartans, more than usual.

But, I’d rather have playable elites than NO elites.

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> 2533275013567761;19150:
> > 2533274810025449;19147:
> > > 2533275013567761;19144:
> > > > 2533274810025449;19140:
> > > > > 2533274821485400;19139:
> > > > > > 2535438002035715;19136:
> > > > > > It would be spectacular if in Halo Infinite they made a playable DLC with the Shangeili, or a possible Spin off where you play with the Shangeili.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yeah, I think most people would be ok with Sangheili being relegated to custom games, an Invasion type mode, and a PvE type mode, as long as we would be able to play as a Sangheili.
> > > >
> > > > To be honest, yeah. I’d be fine with them going the Reach way with Sangheili, better that than nothing. Although, it would be ironic. 343 are trying to give people player expression, and if you can’t even play as an Elite in regular matchmaking, how is that player expression?
> > > >
> > > > 343 continues to contradict themselves. I’m not saying that as an insult, just an observation.
> > >
> > > I mean, I understand why it is so hard to balance them for matchmaking because I have heard all of the arguments against their being added to the game on account for the hitboxes.
> > >
> > > I personally like the Reach way a lot more, because it removes the headache in having to worry about balance because Invasion isn’t really expected to be balanced to begin with. You go in knowing that Spartans play a certain way and that Elites are like Spartans but they’re different because they’re bigger and have different equipment/react differently to certain mechanics. Also because I really liked the idea of them being taller than Spartans.
> > >
> > > When you have them in every matchmaking gamemode, people get angry because the hitboxes are off, and honestly I do not fault them for it. When you put them in matchmaking, two things need to happen:
> > >
> > >
> > > - You have to scale the hitbox such that it is exactly or to a satisfactory extent, like a Spartan’s; - You have to tweak the animations such that they are comparable to a Spartan’s; and - You have to do all that whilst maintaining what makes the model of an Elite different from that of a Spartan’s.When you have to have a traditionally spartan game accompany elites, the accepted narrative is that you have to really glue them, as much as possible, to Spartans, which limits you as to what creative freedom you’re allowed to take with the elites.
> > >
> > > I really could just be talking a bunch of -Yoink- though, cause really? I just loved the way Reach did it because ever since Reach, I thought of elites as their own thing, based solely on how Bungie gave them distinct differences to Spartans.
> > >
> > > I don’t know, which method is easier?
> > >
> > >
> > > - Going the Halo 3 method, only now you REALLY have to crack down on the model differences between Elites and Spartans because the newer Halos are now much more competitive and thus need to have that crisp balance. This would mean needing to do the horrible task of balancing keeping what makes elites different with making them viable for competitive (that is to say, making them as close to Spartans as possible); or - Going the Reach method, where 343 can use the new Halo 4/5 Elite models or the Classic-esque ones (could be a new customization option maybe?), and delegate Playable elites to social modes and of course, Invasion. This, obviously giving them the freedom to make elites different (IE. having larger models, maybe having slightly different stats, et cetera) and thus, now you can put them in custom games and any other social game modes (or have a competitive Elite vs Elite gamemode) without having to worry too much about the balance (to an extent. You still obviously have to balance them, but Social is more laxxed than Competitive when it comes to balance).Both require work, there’s no easy solution.
> > >
> > > But people, I find, love going with option 3:
> > >
> > > 3. Ignore anyone who wants playable elites because Waypoint Statistics say that 0.000003% of the community actually used them. They’re making 343 do more work. They’re distracting the development team from focusing on more important things like gun bloom. Screw them, they’re not true Halo fans
> >
> > 4. Tweak the hitboxes to be the same as Spartans. I’ve given multiple suggestions in past pages.
> >
> > Personally, I really don’t care if the hitboxes are fair or not. I’m a big time social player who just likes to mess around in multiplayer matches. I don’t care if it’s balanced, as long as it’s fun. I would like for the hitboxes to be the same, but it’s not a priority of mine. Besides, Halo 3 elite hitboxes are broken and I get plenty of kills anyway.
> >
> > Complainers gonna complain. If they get mad because the hitboxes aren’t fair, they need to grow up, shut up, and deal. People are going to complain no matter what, I’ve just stopped caring,
>
> Number 1 of my original post is your Number 4. I see a lot of people don’t care about the hitboxes and that’s fine but if I were to choose I’d definitely choose the Reach method because, conceptually and gameplay wise, I love embracing the idea that Elites are different from spartans, more than usual.
>
> But, I’d rather have playable elites than NO elites.

Oh, I guess I didn’t pay attention.

Besides, the Halo Infinite Elites are so similar to Spartans in size and shape, making the hitboxes fair really wouldn’t be that hard. They would just have to go out and make an announcement that the hitboxes are the same.

But like I said, being fair is the least of my problems. I’m the kinda guy who gathers all his friends and forms a human pyramid in an online match. Just make Halo fun again. That’s where 343 fails, they focus too much on making things fair it’s not fun anymore. Sure make it balanced, but 343 hyperfocus on it. It’s probably because of their obsession with Esports.

Like in CE, the pistol is BROKEN to say the least. And the times where if you slightly touch a moving vehicle you get splattered. Also when you die by falling off a ladder. All these things add to the charm of the game. What would CE be without them? Not everything NEEDS to be perfectly balanced.

People’s priorities are different, so I’ll admit it would be hard to implement this, and I doubt it’ll ever happen. I think Halo Infinite will be a game with a LOT of SBMM in social, and overly strict rules in map design and weapon sandbox. You can’t even grenade jump! That’s a definite sign that 343’s priorities are still making things fair for competitive.

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> > > > > > > 2535438002035715;19136:
> > > > > > > It would be spectacular if in Halo Infinite they made a playable DLC with the Shangeili, or a possible Spin off where you play with the Shangeili.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yeah, I think most people would be ok with Sangheili being relegated to custom games, an Invasion type mode, and a PvE type mode, as long as we would be able to play as a Sangheili.
> > > > >
> > > > > To be honest, yeah. I’d be fine with them going the Reach way with Sangheili, better that than nothing. Although, it would be ironic. 343 are trying to give people player expression, and if you can’t even play as an Elite in regular matchmaking, how is that player expression?
> > > > >
> > > > > 343 continues to contradict themselves. I’m not saying that as an insult, just an observation.
> > > >
> > > > I mean, I understand why it is so hard to balance them for matchmaking because I have heard all of the arguments against their being added to the game on account for the hitboxes.
> > > >
> > > > I personally like the Reach way a lot more, because it removes the headache in having to worry about balance because Invasion isn’t really expected to be balanced to begin with. You go in knowing that Spartans play a certain way and that Elites are like Spartans but they’re different because they’re bigger and have different equipment/react differently to certain mechanics. Also because I really liked the idea of them being taller than Spartans.
> > > >
> > > > When you have them in every matchmaking gamemode, people get angry because the hitboxes are off, and honestly I do not fault them for it. When you put them in matchmaking, two things need to happen:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > - You have to scale the hitbox such that it is exactly or to a satisfactory extent, like a Spartan’s; - You have to tweak the animations such that they are comparable to a Spartan’s; and - You have to do all that whilst maintaining what makes the model of an Elite different from that of a Spartan’s.When you have to have a traditionally spartan game accompany elites, the accepted narrative is that you have to really glue them, as much as possible, to Spartans, which limits you as to what creative freedom you’re allowed to take with the elites.
> > > >
> > > > I really could just be talking a bunch of -Yoink- though, cause really? I just loved the way Reach did it because ever since Reach, I thought of elites as their own thing, based solely on how Bungie gave them distinct differences to Spartans.
> > > >
> > > > I don’t know, which method is easier?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > - Going the Halo 3 method, only now you REALLY have to crack down on the model differences between Elites and Spartans because the newer Halos are now much more competitive and thus need to have that crisp balance. This would mean needing to do the horrible task of balancing keeping what makes elites different with making them viable for competitive (that is to say, making them as close to Spartans as possible); or - Going the Reach method, where 343 can use the new Halo 4/5 Elite models or the Classic-esque ones (could be a new customization option maybe?), and delegate Playable elites to social modes and of course, Invasion. This, obviously giving them the freedom to make elites different (IE. having larger models, maybe having slightly different stats, et cetera) and thus, now you can put them in custom games and any other social game modes (or have a competitive Elite vs Elite gamemode) without having to worry too much about the balance (to an extent. You still obviously have to balance them, but Social is more laxxed than Competitive when it comes to balance).Both require work, there’s no easy solution.
> > > >
> > > > But people, I find, love going with option 3:
> > > >
> > > > 3. Ignore anyone who wants playable elites because Waypoint Statistics say that 0.000003% of the community actually used them. They’re making 343 do more work. They’re distracting the development team from focusing on more important things like gun bloom. Screw them, they’re not true Halo fans
>
> Oh, I guess I didn’t pay attention.
>
> Besides, the Halo Infinite… ^ It’s above

I definitely agree with seeing Halo follow this inscription that it is eternally bound to deciding the test of whether features should stay or go, exclusively through balance and competitive mode alone (not to say that nobody cares about purely community features that contribute nothing to balance, but the scale is definitely weighted heavily in favour of competitive mode now). I fear it may be why Playable Elites never came back (AT ALL, like, nonwithstanding either method of bringing them back, Reach or 3), neither being true for things like Dual Wielding, and it’s currently a hot topic right now of whether or not we should remove the Spartan Laser of all things!
All because of this new need for extreme Hyperfocus on Balance, as you refer to it as.

I can see why people like it and I can see why games need it. I can see that 343 really wants an E-Sports ready game and so, naturally, I guess you have to ask these questions of whether it’s worth bringing back something that could potentially be broken (Playable Elites? Dual Wielding? Spartan Lasers), but if you ask me? I think you’re definitely going to lose some things, more things than you might’ve intended, along the way. By transitioning from what used to be semi-competitive, but clearly more casually approached series of Halos that didn’t really care about whether things like Playable Elites were balanced, so long as they were implemented, you start to lose things and then people wonder why you removed them and they want them back.

The new philosophy this time around favours a more nothing is sacred if its not popular, because a lot of people tend to use the excuse that Playable Elites shouldn’t come back not only because it would be work to add them back, but because only “0.0003%” of the community used them when they were present. Now it doesn’t matter whether this is true (I’m leaning towards it being false because I never saw or had the ability to question the data), now we have to tussle with whether features should be kept because they’re balanced, we have to also tackle the philosophy of whether, just because something isn’t as popular as something else, do we remove it? We’re in a strange place right now because the community has transformed out of wanting more community casual features like Playable Elites and instead favours more competitive hyperfocus balance features like allowing the devs to spend a more than usual amount of time on nailing the balance.

Again, I can respect balance as: yes, it’s definitely something you should spend time tweaking and getting right enough so that your game won’t be clearly dysfunctional. That said, I’m also a firm believer that if you spend so much time nailing something that cannot ever be perfect (balance), to the point where you can no longer produce tangible content like new vehicles or new features at a rate close to or equal to predecessor’s rates, then people will start to notice, and they have a right to notice those things and speak their mind (potentially negative) about it.

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> > >
>
> People’s priorities are different, so I’ll admit it would be hard to implement this, and I doubt it’ll ever happen. I think Halo Infinite will be a game with a LOT of SBMM in social, and overly strict rules in map design and weapon sandbox. You can’t even grenade jump! That’s a definite sign that 343’s priorities are still making things fair for competitive.

But then, you’re right again! You have to account for the fact that everyone has different priorities. Different fans have different priorities. The new crowd 343 brought looks to have their priorities nailed to competitive (I can’t ever know for sure, but it’s just what I’ve picked up from those who aren’t rude when talking about these things). Compare that to, I guess the more casual fans that existed before Halo started going in this direction, now their priorities get clashed with this new crowd and we have this whole mess. At the end of the day, it’s impossible to get it right. All anyone can do that the end of the day is just try really hard to convince others around them that their features are important.

I guess at point, you just gotta feel sad that our contingent here of people who want playable elites have just been turned into a laughing stock by everyone who thinks we look stupid because we want a feature doesn’t make sense to Halo’s New Agenda. It’s a sign of the times, and just something you gotta get with.
I omega relate to you being like you don’t really care anymore cause, even though I still care a good deal, I been losing my ability to care because, the more you look at it, the more you’re bashed and hammered for wanting something, the more hopeless it tends to look.

But that’s enough of my mindless mush ramblings bro, sorry for the length.

19154

> 2533275013567761;19152:
> > 2533274810025449;19151:
> > > 2533275013567761;19150:
> > > I definitely agree with seeing Halo follow this inscription that it is eternally bound to deciding the test of whether features should stay or go, exclusively through balance and competitive mode alone (not to say that nobody cares about purely community features that contribute nothing to balance, but the scale is definitely weighted heavily in favour of competitive mode now). I fear it may be why Playable Elites never came back (AT ALL, like, nonwithstanding either method of bringing them back, Reach or 3), neither being true for things like Dual Wielding, and it’s currently a hot topic right now of whether or not we should remove the Spartan Laser of all things!
> > > All because of this new need for extreme Hyperfocus on Balance, as you refer to it as.
> > >
> > > I can see why people like it and I can see why games need it. I can see that 343 really wants an E-Sports ready game and so, naturally, I guess you have to ask these questions of whether it’s worth bringing back something that could potentially be broken (Playable Elites? Dual Wielding? Spartan Lasers), but if you ask me? I think you’re definitely going to lose some things, more things than you might’ve intended, along the way. By transitioning from what used to be semi-competitive, but clearly more casually approached series of Halos that didn’t really care about whether things like Playable Elites were balanced, so long as they were implemented, you start to lose things and then people wonder why you removed them and they want them back.
> > >
> > > The new philosophy this time around favours a more nothing is sacred if its not popular, because a lot of people tend to use the excuse that Playable Elites shouldn’t come back not only because it would be work to add them back, but because only “0.0003%” of the community used them when they were present. Now it doesn’t matter whether this is true (I’m leaning towards it being false because I never saw or had the ability to question the data), now we have to tussle with whether features should be kept because they’re balanced, we have to also tackle the philosophy of whether, just because something isn’t as popular as something else, do we remove it? We’re in a strange place right now because the community has transformed out of wanting more community casual features like Playable Elites and instead favours more competitive hyperfocus balance features like allowing the devs to spend a more than usual amount of time on nailing the balance.
> > >
> > > Again, I can respect balance as: yes, it’s definitely something you should spend time tweaking and getting right enough so that your game won’t be clearly dysfunctional. That said, I’m also a firm believer that if you spend so much time nailing something that cannot ever be perfect (balance), to the point where you can no longer produce tangible content like new vehicles or new features at a rate close to or equal to predecessor’s rates, then people will start to notice, and they have a right to notice those things and speak their mind (potentially negative) about it

Nothing can be perfect, as a perfectionist I know. I’ve chased after perfection so much that I just got disappointed when it still had flaws. Nothing is ever going to be perfect, and there’s always going to be complaining.

Bungie knew that no one really played as Elites, but they implemented them anyway. It was an extra layer of customization and expression that they gave for those few (such as myself) who did play as Elites back in the day. Notice though that even though Bungie added Elites they never gave them too much customization. In Reach they made Spartans the priority by giving them more options, but they didn’t leave the Elites with nothing. That was the smartest way to do it. Make the Spartans the priority because that’s most of your playerbase, but still give the Elite minority some stuff.

In my experience, Elites really aren’t that rare to see in a game. In 4v4s, there’s usually at least one other Elite besides me. They try to make the Elite playerbase seems small, but there are actually a lot of people who play as them. Getting rid of them in not the way to go.

> 2533275013567761;19153:
> > 2533274810025449;19151:
> > > 2533275013567761;19150:
> > > > 2533274810025449;19147:
> > > >
> >
> > People’s priorities are different, so I’ll admit it would be hard to implement this, and I doubt it’ll ever happen. I think Halo Infinite will be a game with a LOT of SBMM in social, and overly strict rules in map design and weapon sandbox. You can’t even grenade jump! That’s a definite sign that 343’s priorities are still making things fair for competitive.
>
> But then, you’re right again! You have to account for the fact that everyone has different priorities. Different fans have different priorities. The new crowd 343 brought looks to have their priorities nailed to competitive (I can’t ever know for sure, but it’s just what I’ve picked up from those who aren’t rude when talking about these things). Compare that to, I guess the more casual fans that existed before Halo started going in this direction, now their priorities get clashed with this new crowd and we have this whole mess. At the end of the day, it’s impossible to get it right. All anyone can do that the end of the day is just try really hard to convince others around them that their features are important.
>
> I guess at point, you just gotta feel sad that our contingent here of people who want playable elites have just been turned into a laughing stock by everyone who thinks we look stupid because we want a feature doesn’t make sense to Halo’s New Agenda. It’s a sign of the times, and just something you gotta get with.
> I omega relate to you being like you don’t really care anymore cause, even though I still care a good deal, I been losing my ability to care because, the more you look at it, the more you’re bashed and hammered for wanting something, the more hopeless it tends to look.
>
> But that’s enough of my mindless mush ramblings bro, sorry for the length.

At the end of the day, it’s more about 343’s priorities. If they see Elites as worthy of being implemented, then there you go. If not, then playable Elites are most likely never coming back. With most of the people I’ve talked to, they prefer Spartans but still want Elites as an option. “I like more than one species to shoot at”-as I have heard from a few people. It angers me that even though Spartan players want playable Elites, 343 still won’t give them to us.

There’s always gonna be people who make fun of Elite fans. Best to not worry too much about it. I’m not going out of my way to make someone who’s making fun of me and my interests happy.

As for the lengthy posts, naw man, it’s fine. Make them as lengthy as you want.

19155

looking back it does seem like they might add them in the future. Though I do hope that’s true. Now while yes I can give Halo Infinite a shot at launch there won’t be anything that can keep me there. the only thing I touched in Halo 5 was forge but thats alre4ady a given. Of course the forge will be good I’m sure of it but it may not be enough to keep me coming back.

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> 2533274824356785;19155:
> looking back it does seem like they might add them in the future. Though I do hope that’s true. Now while yes I can give Halo Infinite a shot at launch there won’t be anything that can keep me there. the only thing I touched in Halo 5 was forge but thats alre4ady a given. Of course the forge will be good I’m sure of it but it may not be enough to keep me coming back.

I just hope that they have those lighting dimmers from Halo Online. Imagine Sandtrap at night, it would change the entire atmosphere of the map. I also hope for terrain changers, as in you can change the terrain of a map. Want a version of Valhalla except desert? You got it. How 'bout Blood Gulch except it’s snowy?

There’s so much you could do. Imagine Sandtrap, except snowy and at night. The feel of the map would be different. Plus, we have yet to get an outside map at night.

Terrain changers would be absolutely awesome! I love to forge even though I suck at it, these features would make my maps so much better!

19157

good lord this thread is old.

I feel like we have a good chance to see them added to infinite in a future content update/season/dlc/whatever, id rather we have marginally shrunk down models from the campaign to fit the hit box, then to do what reach did and make them only usable in customs/invasion.

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> 2533274810025449;19156:
> > 2533274824356785;19155:
> > looking back it does seem like they might add them in the future. Though I do hope that’s true. Now while yes I can give Halo Infinite a shot at launch there won’t be anything that can keep me there. the only thing I touched in Halo 5 was forge but thats alre4ady a given. Of course the forge will be good I’m sure of it but it may not be enough to keep me coming back.
>
> I just hope that they have those lighting dimmers from Halo Online. Imagine Sandtrap at night, it would change the entire atmosphere of the map. I also hope for terrain changers, as in you can change the terrain of a map. Want a version of Valhalla except desert? You got it. How 'bout Blood Gulch except it’s snowy?
>
> There’s so much you could do. Imagine Sandtrap, except snowy and at night. The feel of the map would be different. Plus, we have yet to get an outside map at night.
>
> Terrain changers would be absolutely awesome! I love to forge even though I suck at it, these features would make my maps so much better!

i think i saw a mod which changed sandtrap to be snowy. I saw it while browsing the internet but i dont remember where i found it.

19159

> 2535447979542749;19158:
> > 2533274810025449;19156:
> > > 2533274824356785;19155:
> > > looking back it does seem like they might add them in the future. Though I do hope that’s true. Now while yes I can give Halo Infinite a shot at launch there won’t be anything that can keep me there. the only thing I touched in Halo 5 was forge but thats alre4ady a given. Of course the forge will be good I’m sure of it but it may not be enough to keep me coming back.
> >
> > I just hope that they have those lighting dimmers from Halo Online. Imagine Sandtrap at night, it would change the entire atmosphere of the map. I also hope for terrain changers, as in you can change the terrain of a map. Want a version of Valhalla except desert? You got it. How 'bout Blood Gulch except it’s snowy?
> >
> > There’s so much you could do. Imagine Sandtrap, except snowy and at night. The feel of the map would be different. Plus, we have yet to get an outside map at night.
> >
> > Terrain changers would be absolutely awesome! I love to forge even though I suck at it, these features would make my maps so much better!
>
> i think i saw a mod which changed sandtrap to be snowy. I saw it while browsing the internet but i dont remember where i found it.

Yeah, but I can’t access mods. That’s why I hope that they are in the final game.

19160

> 2533274847845259;19157:
> good lord this thread is old.
>
> I feel like we have a good chance to see them added to infinite in a future content update/season/dlc/whatever, id rather we have marginally shrunk down models from the campaign to fit the hit box, then to do what reach did and make them only usable in customs/invasion.

technically you can use them in online matchmaking you just needed to get Elite Slayer.

I hope we do get Elites in Halo Infinite and then get Elite Slayer or a playlist for Elites.

19161

yes indeed, we want more information.

19162

> 2533274866720209;19146:
> Halo: Reach Invasion was a one of a kind mode. Not balanced but very cool imo. Sad it probably will never return in a future installment.

We could probably make something similar in forge, however