Hey… Remember Elite slayer in the Halo: Reach beta? That was actually pretty fun, with the Elite’s evasion and all.
Why wasn’t it a main playlist in the game? That irked me so much.
Please 343, would love to see a Spartan vs Elite game mode and an Elite vs Elite game mode.
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> > > I think you make a game mode with new Spartan 4 versus the arbiters elites. Were already allied with them so why not make a cool arena of Spartans vs Elites.
> > >
> > > in broken circle, the latest halo book, they had an elite colony who had a space arena that the used for entertainment and to help them to not get so squishy.
> > >
> > > it would help bring the two species together in healthy competition. Theirs your cannon reason for elite being in halo multiplayer.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > There’s more to what goes into multiplayer than what makes sense canonically. There’s also the effect on gameplay, hardware/time/manpower limitations, and whether or not the effect (or lack of effect) is worth the time and effort to realize.
> >
> > Playable Elites as an open customization option would bring issues with hit-boxes (whether the hit-boxes are the same as the Spartan models or not), due to the different physiology. These issues would affect every gametype if it were an open customization option. That said, I don’t see anything wrong with the concept of a Spartans VS Elites mode (and certainly not an Elite VS Elite mode, given there would be universal hit-boxes). However, I don’t see it as worth the time it may take to create/re-purpose Elite models, animations, HUD, etc.
> >
> > That’s just me, though. I prioritize the aspects of equality in gameplay over customization.
>
>
> Yeah, but then there’s being too lazy to make a gift for the fans happen, just because it’s ambitious.
>
> If they got Elites to work in every mode in classic Halo 2 without too many people complaining about hitboxes, then obviously they got something right with the hitboxes that Halo 3 got wrong. If they stand upright and aren’t so overly bulky that it conceals their head from some angles, they will work, just like they have before.
It isn’t the developers’ duty to hand out gifts, but to provide the best experience they can with the available resources. Not handing self-entitled players gifts doesn’t make the developers lazy. Also, I wouldn’t exactly call a cosmetic option “ambitious”… Potentially time-consuming, yes, but not ambitious.
As for Halo 2 Elites not posing the same problems Halo 3’s did, I’m going to take a guess and say that’s because of larger/simpler hit-boxes in H2.
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> It isn’t the developers’ duty to hand out gifts, but to provide the best experience they can with the available resources.
They’re using a powerful new engine with modified Halo 4 code and assets. They have plenty of resources.
That’s why the extra things they do to the game will be what counts in the long run; things that weren’t 100% necessary. As unfair as it sounds, if the game hits shelves and is only a smidgen better than Halo 4, it will be considered a failure in the eyes of many, will it not?
I’m upset to be calling something that’s been in a good portion of the Halo games a ‘gift’ at this point. Making something return that’s been in so many Halo games would be a great way to ‘provide the best experience they can with the available resources,’ in my opinion…
Conker’s Bad Fur Day’s local multiplayer is a good example of a gift… By no means did that game need multiplayer, nor were most of the additions/cool things featured in MP used in the main story, but they added all that crap anyway, and with bots, because they probably felt it would increase the longevity of the game.
It did.
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> Not handing self-entitled players gifts doesn’t make the developers lazy.
It certainly wouldn’t make for a good developer either. ‘Self-entitlement’ is what got us Forge mode and Firefight, even armor customization, but whatever, I guess we should stop asking for cool stuff in Halo games…
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> Also, I wouldn’t exactly call a cosmetic option “ambitious”… Potentially time-consuming, yes, but not ambitious.
They share ‘easy’ as an antonym as far as I’m concerned… Something that is time-consuming certainly isn’t easy.
So who’s still on Xbox 360?
is it confirmed ?
There have been actually a few hints regarding the Elites return to multiplayer, for example;
- Sarah Palmer has been playing Invasion on War games in Halo Escalation.
- Grim, Canon fodder blog writer was asked the following question “Have the Sangheili taking any part in the War games?”
He answered that, there have been a few games where Sangheili have taken a part of.
I have this hunch, that the Elites will be revealed at E3 as a surprise, since they have been a HUGE demand by the community and it would fit the canon pretty nicely.
I agree
When is E3 again?
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> > It isn’t the developers’ duty to hand out gifts, but to provide the best experience they can with the available resources.
>
>
>
>
> They’re using a powerful new engine with modified Halo 4 code and assets. They have plenty of resources.
The resources that I’m referring to are time and manpower. I’m not questioning whether or not they have the tech to do what was done more than a decade ago.
> Conker’s Bad Fur Day’s local multiplayer is a good example of a gift… By no means did that game need multiplayer, nor were most of the additions/cool things featured in MP used in the main story, but they added all that crap anyway, and with bots, because they probably felt it would increase the longevity of the game.
You do realize the example you just gave is a “gift” of the gameplay variety, right?
Imagine this: instead of making the multiplayer aspect of Conker;s Bad Fur Day, the game’s developers chose to add tons of cosmetic customization. Do you think this would that have increased the longevity of the game to the extent the gameplay additions did?
Also, before its mentioned that Conker’s Bad Fur Day let you play as different “species” (not sure what to call the Tediz), I’m going to point out that the fidelity of character models have increased since 2001. Animations are more complex, textures are more detailed, and polygon counts have skyrocketed. Creating a top-notch character model today takes more time and effort than it did back then.
> It certainly wouldn’t make for a good developer either. ‘Self-entitlement’ is what got us Forge mode and Firefight, even armor customization, but whatever, I guess we should stop asking for cool stuff in Halo games…
Asking for things you’d like is fine, but saying “If you can’t/won’t do this, you’re lazy!” is another thing entirely.
I don’t think it was fan outcry that convinced Bungie to add all that you just listed. I think it was actual ambition in making the best game they could. Did you notice that two of the three things you listed here are gameplay-oriented additions, rather than cosmetic additions? How much do you think armor customization increased longevity, compared to Forge, Firefight, and Theatre?
> They share ‘easy’ as an antonym as far as I’m concerned… Something that is time-consuming certainly isn’t easy.
“Neither apples nor oranges are vegetables. Therefore, apples and oranges are the same thing as far as I’m concerned.” See the flaw in that logic?
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> The resources that I’m referring to are time and manpower. I’m not questioning whether or not they have the tech to do what was done more than a decade ago.I’m going to point out that the fidelity of character models have increased since 2001. Animations are more complex, textures are more detailed, and polygon counts have skyrocketed. Creating a top-notch character model today takes more time and effort than it did back then.
The process of making 3d models has only gotten easier with technology… Could you imagine a time when ZBrush didn’t exist? Could you imagine rigging without auto-weighting? Could you imagine a time when meshes had to be modeled, then edited from both sides instead of applying symmetry? Could you imagine a time when textures had to be drawn out haphazardly instead of being painted onto the model in realtime? Could you imagine UVW mapping without Pelt mapping?!
A lot of those tools existed in 2001, but certainly not for game developers. Now we can actually use them in video games instead of CGI in movies.
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> You do realize the example you just gave is on a “gift” of the gameplay variety, right?
>
> Do you think this would that have increased the longevity of the game to the extent the gameplay additions did?
>
> Did you notice that two of the three things you listed here are gameplay-oriented additions, rather than cosmetic additions?
Whoa, I can hear you.
But I fail to see the significance in that. An addition to the total package, is an addition to the total package. More game = more playing. That is the only point I tried to make from the beginning; which you are basically saying isn’t valid, because it’s not a gameplay addition.
This is why straw manning is bad. Don’t argue when there is nothing to argue about!
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> Asking for things you’d like is fine, but saying “If you can’t/won’t do this, you’re lazy!” is another thing entirely.
You’re right. It’s called exaggerating for effect, which you have been arguing with me over for 3 days straight…
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> “Neither apples nor oranges are bananas. Therefore, apples and orange are the same thing as far as I’m concerned.” See the flaw in that logic?
Oh boy, the apples and oranges argument. I must have really offended you somehow… “Let’s take two very different things and compare them so we can make ‘ambitious’ and ‘time-consuming’ sound like a fallacious comparison.”
Back off with the attacks for crying out loud.
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> But I fail to see the significance in that. An addition to the total package, is an addition to the total package. Whether it is customization/gameplay-oriented or not, was hardly the point.
>
> More game = more playing. That is the only point I tried to make from the beginning, which you are basically saying isn’t valid, because it’s not a gampelay addition. Yay for straw manning!
You fail to see the significance in the difference between a gameplay addition and a cosmetic addition? If its a gameplay addition, there’s either more ways to play or more components to how you play. If its a cosmetic addition, there’s more ways to look while you’re playing.
How does a cosmetic addition constitute as “more game”? If I play Evolve without any of the currently available DLC (all of which is cosmetic) and you play Evolve with said cosmetic DLC, you don’t have any more “game” than I do.
Strawmanning? How did I incorrectly represent your argument? There’s a big difference between misrepresenting your argument and disagreeing with it.
> You’re right. It’s called exaggerating for effect, which you have been arguing with me over for 3 days straight…
You said “Yeah, but then there’s being too lazy to make a gift for the fans happen, just because it’s ambitious.” What was the exaggeration there?
Also, you’re trying to call me out for “arguing” with you on an online forum e.g. a place for discussion/debate… and “three days straight”? Would you call four to five texts with someone over a three-day period “arguing with me for three days straight”? Now that’s an exaggeration 
> Oh boy, the apples and oranges argument. I must have really offended you somehow… “Let’s take two very different things and compare them so we can make ‘ambitious’ and ‘time-consuming’ sound like a fallacious comparison.”
>
> Back off with the attacks for crying out loud.
No offense taken. I merely meant to paint your logic “Neither something ambitious nor something time-consuming can be easy, so they must be about the same thing” in different colors, so to speak. Here’s a better one: “Dark and heavy both have light as an antonym, so they must mean about the same thing.”
How have I attacked you? You offered your argument, I offered my counter-argument. I haven’t insulted or accused you of anything, have I?
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> Please 343, would love to see a Spartan vs Elite game mode and an Elite vs Elite game mode.
Or you know, scrap that idea and let everyone be what they want to be and just go out killing each other or aiding one another in any game type. Seriously, I am getting real tired of people wanting segregation…
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> > 2533274813520204;9643:
> > Please 343, would love to see a Spartan vs Elite game mode and an Elite vs Elite game mode.
>
>
> Or you know, scrap that idea and let everyone be what they want to be and just go out killing each other or aiding one another in any game type. Seriously, I am getting real tired of people wanting segregation…
I agree, unless it’s invasion.
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> > 2533274813520204;9643:
> > Please 343, would love to see a Spartan vs Elite game mode and an Elite vs Elite game mode.
>
>
> Or you know, scrap that idea and let everyone be what they want to be and just go out killing each other or aiding one another in any game type. Seriously, I am getting real tired of people wanting segregation…
There are times when lines must be drawn… Think of it this way: Most sports are “segregated” by gender, as males and females of our species have different capacities for physical prowess. This division is not done to undermine or devalue either group, but to maintain standards and provide fairer competition. Same concept applies to playable Elites, whether you choose to acknowledge/care. Allowing unhindered play between different models tarnishes the aspect of equality that the developers are going for with identical starts and universal abilities.
Out of curiosity, how would you like Elites to return? To scale with Spartan models or larger ala Reach? Same speed, jump height, shield strength, etc. or greater? Hunched forward or upright (to help with the issues of shooting Elites from behind), something I have seen many people oppose?
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> There are times when lines must be drawn… Think of it this way: Most sports are “segregated” by gender, as males and females of our species have different capacities for physical prowess. This division is not done to undermine or devalue either group, but to maintain standards and provide fairer competition. Same concept applies to playable Elites, whether you choose to acknowledge/care. Allowing unhindered play between different models tarnishes the aspect of equality that the developers are going for with identical starts and universal abilities.
>
> Out of curiosity, how would you like Elites to return? To scale with Spartan models or larger ala Reach? Same speed, jump height, shield strength, etc. or greater? Hunched forward or upright (to help with the issues of shooting Elites from behind), something I have seen many people oppose?
Don’t give me that crap when it comes to the lines be drawn here. This is a Halo game. We get to choose what we want to play, what armor we want to wear, what species we’re allowed to play as which all started from Halo 2 all the way until today. What Halo reach had done was pretty much caused a huge damage toward the Elite community by making them way too over powered compared to Spartans and we aren’t allowed to play along side other Spartan players in the same game type. Even custom games are effected as well due to their size being too tall.
If anything, give me the same height size as Spartans without them being hunched over and standing up straight. No more rediculace anatomy that made things unfair about the hit boxes and what not. I don’t care about Halo Lore when it comes to how appropriate size, or speed or whatever they are suppose to do, this is Multiplayer, not canon. We should be same height, same speed and what not as Spartans, not over powered barbarians.
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> Don’t give me that crap when it comes to the lines be drawn here. This is a Halo game. We get to choose what we want to play, what armor we want to wear, what species we’re allowed to play as which all started from Halo 2 all the way until today. What Halo reach had done was pretty much caused a huge damage toward the Elite community by making them way too over powered compared to Spartans and we aren’t allowed to play along side other Spartan players in the same game type. Even custom games are effected as well due to their size being too tall.
>
> If anything, give me the same height size as Spartans without them being hunched over and standing up straight. No more rediculace anatomy that made things unfair about the hit boxes and what not. I don’t care about Halo Lore when it comes to how appropriate size, or speed or whatever they are suppose to do, this is Multiplayer, not canon. We should be same height, same speed and what not as Spartans, not over powered barbarians.
This certainly is a Halo game. Your point?
Halo games offer a sandbox of different weapons and vehicles, but players can’t always spawn with the weapon they prefer or in a vehicle because they prefer vehicular combat. There are gametypes/custom settings that let players do such things, but the majority of the game maintains a standard. I believe the same should be done for Elites, unless such customization has no effect on gameplay (hit-box size/positioning, movement speed, jump height, shield/health recharge rate, etc.)
Regarding how you’d like to see playable Elites, I have nothing against it. If the developers have spare time to implement them in this way, I’d like to see it happen. However, I’ve asked this question before and found that several people are opposed to changing the size/posture of Elites to make it fair…
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> This certainly is a Halo game. Your point?
>
> Halo games offer a sandbox of different weapons and vehicles, but players can’t always spawn with the weapon they prefer or in a vehicle because they prefer vehicular combat. There are gametypes/custom settings that let players do such things, but the majority of the game maintains a standard. I believe the same should be done for Elites, unless such customization has no effect on gameplay (hit-box size/positioning, movement speed, jump height, shield/health recharge rate, etc.)
>
> Regarding how you’d like to see playable Elites, I have nothing against it. If the developers have spare time to implement them in this way, I’d like to see it happen. However, I’ve asked this question before and found that several people are opposed to changing the size/posture of Elites to make it fair…
Here’s the deal though, ever since Halo 2 and Elite’s were first introduced into Halo to be played as, suddenly a huge burst of Elite players were growing into playing such species and has then caused a community to grow. Thing is however, when Halo games suddenly start taking away such features when it comes to both customization and game types or whatever, people are going to be pretty damn pissed and just don’t bother playing that particular game. That’s exactly what Halo 4 has done and we both know people are still angry about that game anyways.
Then you should go ahead and ask real Elite players how they want their Sangheili to be as. I gave my share of thoughts on how I want them to be, go ahead and ask more people. But repeating what Halo Reach has done on the Elite’s will severely be a bad idea to go by.
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> So it seems that Sangheili will indeed not be playable in Halo 4 Matchmaking due to a ‘canonical matchmaking experience’. I will refrain from stating my opinion on the idea of attempting to make Matchmaking canonical, but the opportunity to have Elites playable is still not forever erased. There is no doubt that this thread has been noticed by at least a few 343 Industries employees. It is the top thread in the Halo 4 Forum, and was mentioned in one of the Q&A Updates. Unfortunately, we have lost the first battle. Elites will not be playable in Multiplayer on the original Halo 4 shipping disc. However there is still time for 343 Industries to listen to their fans.
>
> It may be possible to include elite player models in future Downloadable Content, depending on the layout of the Halo 4 engine. If this is not possible, do not lose faith. If 343 Industries wants to be known as one of the few developers that listens to their fans, they will most certainly incorporate elites as playable characters in Halo 5 & 6. With this being the most popular thread on this forum and holding that title, it seems to be one favor that the fans are wishing to see fulfilled. I comprehend that 343 Industries wanted to make this “their Halo” and not “Bungie’s Halo”, and I respect that philosophy, but this does not mean that all core elements should be pushed to the wayside. This is one core element of Halo Matchmaking that should never be pushed to the wayside.
>
> Jaime Griesemer: “I’d much rather experiment and do something surprising, and not have everybody appreciate it, than just turn the crank and do another alien war movie with a space marine”
>
> This is a quote from Jamie Griesemer regarding the criticism that the Arbiter’s missions in Halo 2 received. So 343 Industries wisely took the information from the fans about this and created the “Spartan Identity” for Halo 4. Unfortunately the Sangheili population has grown much larger since Halo 2. My identity in Halo, and many others, is an elite. It is not going to be a pleasant experience having to change my identity for Halo 4, but if we stick it out, we may be rewarded.
>
> Below is the original post written on March 5th, 2012 containing many reasons why the Sangheili community has grown and the importance of their inclusion.
>
> -ORIGINAL POST-
>
> Without jumping to conclusions, I understand that Sangheili have neither been confirmed or denied for the Multiplayer of Halo 4, but I would like to present my explanation for why it is imperative Elites make a return, much more dignified than the limitations of Reach.
>
> It is no doubt the Elite community within Halo is small, but having been involved with it for 6 and half years now, I am astounded at it’s growth. As more Halo media like The Return, Halo: Cole Protocol, and Halo: Glasslands makes it’s way to the gamer, the more compelled the gamer is to prefer playing as an Elite over a Spartan. Especially when the media makes reference to things found on a game level, such as Thel 'Vadam or the Revenant. Although that sounds like a very basic and broad way to explain this, after speaking with the populous of newly converted “Elite players”, this is the general reason I get for this exponential growth. To make this point, I ask you to look around, and in nearly every thread you will see at least one or two users with Elite or Covenant avatars.
>
> 343i, I would like you to recognize that we are here collectively, and we deserve the respect and catered opinions just as much as the Spartan fanbase. Although extreme, I know players who actually will not buy Halo 4 if they are not available in Matchmaking, and I cannot say I blame them. What would Halo be without Covenant Weapons/Vehicles as well? Energy Swords, Needlers, and Wraiths are all iconic symbols of what makes Halo, Halo.
>
> The limitations of playing as an Elite in Halo Reach are indeed disheartening. Going back to the Halo 3 method of playing as an elite during regular Matchmaking can be the solution. Not only does that add to the customization, but it can also be explained canonically. I understand that 343i is in the process of delivering a canonical explanation for the Red and Blue Spartans fighting each other. The relationship between Humans and Sangheili can be used to add Elites into this mix. Since the UNSC and the Sangheili are allied, having them use human weapons is anything but non-canon. Or if you would like to take the reverse side of the coin, ONI is supplying the Servants of Abiding Truth with weaponry, which is human as well. This can easily be weaved into the plot without creating a mess.
>
> I understand the game is very far into the development stage, I do not know for sure, but judging by the newest ViDoc, I believe it isn’t too late to give the Elite fanbase a voice. We’re here, we shouldn’t be neglected, and if we are, I can assure you that 343i will lose a great deal of supporters.
>
>
>
> > Please Sign (Thank This Post) If You Agree.
Ok, yess