> Giving players the option to play as a Spartan or Elite in any gametype, like in Halo 3, removes any possible differences the two species could have. When Elites are isolated from Spartans, segregated into specific gametypes like Elite Slayer, it allows them to have their own unique traits, like Evade as a base movement ability, which could never be perfectly balanced against the different base traits of a Spartan.
>
> Rather than Elites simply being reskinned Spartans, available in every gametype, they should have their own gametypes with their own player model, hitbox, and base traits. A sub sandbox, of Elite weapons and vehicles, enhances this alternate experience that Spartan gametypes alone can not provide.
>
> Gametypes intended to play asymmetrically, like Infection or Invasion, benefit from the inclusion of two species with asymmetric base player traits. The thing that prevents both Spartans and Elites from working in symmetric gametypes is the same thing that allows them to improve asymmetric gametypes: asymmetric base player traits. When the map geometry, spawn points, weapons, vehicles, and objectives, relative to each team, are asymmetric then it only makes sense that the two teams’ base player traits become asymmetric as well.
But the thing is, I don’t want to play as an Elite in 15% of the gametypes. I want to be an Elite 100% of the time. Why should I give up my character because of some trait that I don’t want? Being a Spartan is boring, and being forced to be one against my wishes is what drives me away from Reach. What if all players with the EVA helmet had to switch because it’s more visible than Locus or EOD? Is choice so much to ask for?
> > Giving players the option to play as a Spartan or Elite in any gametype, like in Halo 3, removes any possible differences the two species could have. When Elites are isolated from Spartans, segregated into specific gametypes like Elite Slayer, it allows them to have their own unique traits, like Evade as a base movement ability, which could never be perfectly balanced against the different base traits of a Spartan.
> >
> > Rather than Elites simply being reskinned Spartans, available in every gametype, they should have their own gametypes with their own player model, hitbox, and base traits. A sub sandbox, of Elite weapons and vehicles, enhances this alternate experience that Spartan gametypes alone can not provide.
> >
> > Gametypes intended to play asymmetrically, like Infection or Invasion, benefit from the inclusion of two species with asymmetric base player traits. The thing that prevents both Spartans and Elites from working in symmetric gametypes is the same thing that allows them to improve asymmetric gametypes: asymmetric base player traits. When the map geometry, spawn points, weapons, vehicles, and objectives, relative to each team, are asymmetric then it only makes sense that the two teams’ base player traits become asymmetric as well.
>
> But the thing is, I don’t want to play as an Elite in 15% of the gametypes. I want to be an Elite 100% of the time. Why should I give up my character because of some trait that I don’t want? Being a Spartan is boring, and being forced to be one against my wishes is what drives me away from Reach. What if all players with the EVA helmet had to switch because it’s more visible than Locus or EOD? Is choice so much to ask for?
Either the Elite’s player model will not match up exactly to a Spartan’s hitbox or the Elite will not look right because it was forced to be the same shape as a Spartan’s hitbox. Neither is ideal.
> > > Giving players the option to play as a Spartan or Elite in any gametype, like in Halo 3, removes any possible differences the two species could have. When Elites are isolated from Spartans, segregated into specific gametypes like Elite Slayer, it allows them to have their own unique traits, like Evade as a base movement ability, which could never be perfectly balanced against the different base traits of a Spartan.
> > >
> > > Rather than Elites simply being reskinned Spartans, available in every gametype, they should have their own gametypes with their own player model, hitbox, and base traits. A sub sandbox, of Elite weapons and vehicles, enhances this alternate experience that Spartan gametypes alone can not provide.
> > >
> > > Gametypes intended to play asymmetrically, like Infection or Invasion, benefit from the inclusion of two species with asymmetric base player traits. The thing that prevents both Spartans and Elites from working in symmetric gametypes is the same thing that allows them to improve asymmetric gametypes: asymmetric base player traits. When the map geometry, spawn points, weapons, vehicles, and objectives, relative to each team, are asymmetric then it only makes sense that the two teams’ base player traits become asymmetric as well.
> >
> > But the thing is, I don’t want to play as an Elite in 15% of the gametypes. I want to be an Elite 100% of the time. Why should I give up my character because of some trait that I don’t want? Being a Spartan is boring, and being forced to be one against my wishes is what drives me away from Reach. What if all players with the EVA helmet had to switch because it’s more visible than Locus or EOD? Is choice so much to ask for?
>
> Either the Elite’s player model will not match up exactly to a Spartan’s hitbox or the Elite will not look right because it was forced to be the same shape as a Spartan’s hitbox. Neither is ideal.
Halo 2 and Halo 3 had similar hitboxes for Spartans and Elites, and they worked out fine. And I’d rather have a solution that doesn’t require me being a character I chose not to play as.
> Halo 2 and Halo 3 had similar hitboxes for Spartans and Elites, and they worked out fine. And I’d rather have a solution that doesn’t require me being a character I chose not to play as.
So you want to play as an Elite that performs like a Spartan in every way?
That seems awfully boring to me. When I play as an Elite, I want to feel like I am an Elite, not just a Spartan dressing up as an Elite for Halloween.
> > Halo 2 and Halo 3 had similar hitboxes for Spartans and Elites, and they worked out fine. And I’d rather have a solution that doesn’t require me being a character I chose not to play as.
>
> So you want to play as an Elite that performs like a Spartan in every way?
>
> That seems awfully boring to me. When I play as an Elite, I want to feel like I am an Elite, not just a Spartan dressing up as an Elite for Halloween.
I respect your outlook. I just want to play as an Elite in as many gametypes as possible, and that won’t happen if Elites are too different from Spartans. I know every gametype wouldn’t have them, like MLG or SWAT, but I’d rather be an Elite as much as possible, rather than a minimum amount. To me, why would I call myself a Sangheili when I’m mostly forced to be a human almost all the time, save for two or three gamemodes. It just seems redundant to me.
If the problem are the Elites’ size and hitbox,perhaps they could add the Knights and Brutes too, then they could make a balance between the four species, something like an advantage system: Spartan beats Knight, Knight beats Elite, Elite beats Brute and Brute beats Spartan.
I really don’t have a problem with have Elites in multiplayer and I won’t have it with four species if they have that balance, even we could see Invasion with three teams.
But what about you? Do you think that this balance system could work?
> If the problem are the Elites’ size and hitbox,perhaps they could add the Knights and Brutes too, then they could make a balance between the four species, something like an advantage system: Spartan beats Knight, Knight beats Elite, Elite beats Brute and Brute beats Spartan.
> I really don’t have a problem with have Elites in multiplayer and I won’t have it with four species if they have that balance, even we could see Invasion with three teams.
> But what about you? Do you think that this balance system could work?
PLEASE no. Rock paper scissors gameplay is exactly why so much of the community are against things like AAs, and while it works in some types of games (RTS games, and games like Team Fortress that are build purely around a class system) I think it most certainly would not work in halo’s style of multiplayer. On top of that, unlike your AA or a gun, I doubt you will be able to customize your character and/or change your race mid match.
Elites definitely should come back so long as they can be made to fit into the multiplayer in the way that the did in the original trilogy, or AT LEAST in the way they did in reach. Brutes and Knights I think are too different to be made playable, outside of something made specifically for machinima or special customs. Brutes don’t use typically use energy shields, and when they do their armor is very different from that used by spartans and elites, with a relatively weak breakable armor on top of a larger health pool. Knights have an entirely different form factor from any of the others making them even harder to justify.
> > Halo 2 and Halo 3 had similar hitboxes for Spartans and Elites, and they worked out fine. And I’d rather have a solution that doesn’t require me being a character I chose not to play as.
>
> So you want to play as an Elite that performs like a Spartan in every way?
>
> That seems awfully boring to me. When I play as an Elite, I want to feel like I am an Elite, not just a Spartan dressing up as an Elite for Halloween.
I’ll take that chance in every way possible then. It sure as heck beats being the very same reason for Elite’s being segregated in Reach because of how different the two Species were. That, and the Elites had combat Advantages that made things unfair.
> > > Halo 2 and Halo 3 had similar hitboxes for Spartans and Elites, and they worked out fine. And I’d rather have a solution that doesn’t require me being a character I chose not to play as.
> >
> > So you want to play as an Elite that performs like a Spartan in every way?
> >
> > That seems awfully boring to me. When I play as an Elite, I want to feel like I am an Elite, not just a Spartan dressing up as an Elite for Halloween.
>
> I’ll take that chance in every way possible then. It sure as heck beats being the very same reason for Elite’s being segregated in Reach because of how different the two Species were. That, and the Elites had combat Advantages that made things unfair.
When the two species, Spartans and Elites, each have their own unique base traits it allows for Spartan gametypes, Elite gametypes, and Spartan vs Elite gametypes like Infection and Invasion. I would rather have an updated Invasion gametype than the ability to play as Spartans who look like Elites.
> PLEASE no. Rock paper scissors gameplay is exactly why so much of the community are against things like AAs, and while it works in some types of games (RTS games, and games like Team Fortress that are build purely around a class system) I think it most certainly would not work in halo’s style of multiplayer. On top of that, unlike your AA or a gun, I doubt you will be able to customize your character and/or change your race mid match.
>
> Elites definitely should come back so long as they can be made to fit into the multiplayer in the way that the did in the original trilogy, or AT LEAST in the way they did in reach. Brutes and Knights I think are too different to be made playable, outside of something made specifically for machinima or special customs. Brutes don’t use typically use energy shields, and when they do their armor is very different from that used by spartans and elites, with a relatively weak breakable armor on top of a larger health pool. Knights have an entirely different form factor from any of the others making them even harder to justify.
Well, you are right, but anyway, if we want to see the Elites in H5, I think that we must begin to ask vía Twitter, Facebook or NeoGaf , (I really don’t know if 343 is aware about this forum) because if we don’t see them in the beta, probably they will not be able to add them to the game later.
> When the two species, Spartans and Elites, each have their own unique base traits it allows for Spartan gametypes, Elite gametypes, and Spartan vs Elite gametypes like Infection and Invasion. I would rather have an updated Invasion gametype than the ability to play as Spartans who look like Elites.
So you are asking for a Reach 2.0 and have the Elite community be pissed off even more because of the segregation it will continue to create? It’s bad enough as is that only Invasion and Custom games are the only games that elite’s can be played along with Spartans. I rather be playing as the Elite’s like how Halo 2 and 3 handled them, when things were mainly about balance, being able to choose your species, and mainly skill.
> > > > Halo 2 and Halo 3 had similar hitboxes for Spartans and Elites, and they worked out fine. And I’d rather have a solution that doesn’t require me being a character I chose not to play as.
> > >
> > > So you want to play as an Elite that performs like a Spartan in every way?
> > >
> > > That seems awfully boring to me. When I play as an Elite, I want to feel like I am an Elite, not just a Spartan dressing up as an Elite for Halloween.
> >
> > I’ll take that chance in every way possible then. It sure as heck beats being the very same reason for Elite’s being segregated in Reach because of how different the two Species were. That, and the Elites had combat Advantages that made things unfair.
>
> When the two species, Spartans and Elites, each have their own unique base traits it allows for Spartan gametypes, Elite gametypes, and Spartan vs Elite gametypes like Infection and Invasion. I would rather have an updated Invasion gametype than the ability to play as Spartans who look like Elites.
But what’s the point of choosing a preferred species if you hardly use it. In Reach, the only game with segregated playlists, Elite Slayer only ever came up once or twice out of five times. And when it did, everyone just wanted to play Slayer DMRs. You had Invasion, but you could only be an Elite for half of the game. And everything else is just 100% Spartan. You see what I mean? Why bother making Elites different if that difference is what keeps them from being seen? I mean, in-story, Spartans and Elites aren’t that different, physically. So why make them different?
> So why make them different?
Because two species with asymmetric base traits make two team asymmetric gametypes, like Infection and Invasion, better.
Spartans who look like Elites in every gametype don’t make anything better.
> > So why make them different?
>
> Because two species with asymmetric base traits make two team asymmetric gametypes, like Infection and Invasion, better.
>
> Spartans who look like Elites in every gametype don’t make anything better.
Spartans don’t look anything like Elite’s to begin with, so I clearly don’t know where you came up with that ridiculous theory. Spartans and Elite’s have already been told in books and games that they have just about equal strength. So for elite’s to look like Spartans, that’s just out right silly.
> > So why make them different?
>
> Because two species with asymmetric base traits make two team asymmetric gametypes, like Infection and Invasion, better.
>
> Spartans who look like Elites in every gametype doesn’t make anything better.
And what about the rest of the gametypes? With Elites being inherently unequal, the only option is to make most of the game Spartan vs Spartan nonsense, something which has become stale over the past two games.
The reason armor doesn’t do what it does in story is so Spartans can wear whatever permutations they want without having a gameplay advantage. If armor did what it did in-story, and 343 wanted to make an arena-style multiplayer, then we could all only use Recruit armor.
You could make a gametype for explosives where people who use EOD armor can actually see their armor. OR you could make the armors do the same thing so people can look how they want so our creativity isn’t stifled.
Elites who function exactly like Spartans is the opposite of creativity.
> Elites who function exactly like Spartans is the opposite of creativity.
Segregation is the complete opposite of pleasing fans and thus causing anger. Oh, and the opposite of progress.
> Elites who function exactly like Spartans is the opposite of creativity.
If Elites functioned differently than Spartans, choosing to play as one is a tactical decision.
But if Elites functioned the same as Spartans, choosing to play as one is an aesthetic choice.
Thus, being an equal Elite is more creative.
If a BR and a Suppressor functioned the same, it would be a creative choice. But they’re completely different, so people usually choose the BR over the Suppressor. That means no matter how cool a Suppressor may look, it’s too different to use creatively.
> > So why make them different?
>
> Because two species with asymmetric base traits make two team asymmetric gametypes, like Infection and Invasion, better.
>
> Spartans who look like Elites in every gametype don’t make anything better.
And again the problems are the Elites’ hitbox and size, if more people use the Elites, then the gameplay will be more balanced, but the problem is that most of players use Spartans for some reason. I really don’t understand (Spartans are humans and humans are available in every video game, but Elites are from Halo and they are playable just in Halo, even so, the Spartan players are a lot more than the Elite players)
> > > Hey, Kit! I haven’t seen you on this thread in, like, forever. Unless you were here and I’m just a fool. In either case, good to see you again.
> >
> > That made me smile ^-^.
> >
> >
> >
> > Maybe have an h2a like hunch in everything but Elites vs Spartans like invasion? Also in invasion we should have custom colors…if you are on Team Sangheili and you look at a Spartan and you think he is a friendly, that is your fault.
>
> You, my friend, have just summed up exactly what I’ve wanted in Invasion since I first heard about it.
I would love that for sure!
Kill all of the humans!