Sangheili (Elites) In New Trilogy Matchmaking (Part 1)

Games Halo 5: Guardians
8622

> > > > I think a bow might be a bit low-tech for Elites, and a bow is also pretty human. If it’s Arbiter’s men, then maybe humans can lend them some, but an ancient Sangheili weapon could be interesting.
> > > > And, tactical weapons/equipment could be neat, and it would be a good parallel to silenced UNSC weapons, should they ever return.
> > >
> > > I think a covenant bow type weapon would be pretty cool although I’m not sure about it providing extra mobility. Maybe make it like the torque bow from GoW or give it a tripwire function. 343 needs to introduce some new covenant technology for the new halo. All we got in H4 was the storm rifle which was only a new design for the plasma rifle. Wish they would bring back some stuff from reach like focus rifle and revenant as well as playable elites.
> >
> > The plasma sword evolved into its’ plasma state, so can an Elite version of the bow which would likely have a unique Sangheili design. Perhaps a tactical weapon could have more than one option when using it for tactics. Such as being able to to zip across locations or have tripwire functions if properly set. These options could be enabled and disabled, so if you only want the bow to provide the user with zip-lines then so be it. This could allow for new unique mini games as well and new types of map control. Another new Elite weapon could be taking the mini scarab gun literally and providing this as a power weapon.
>
> Well all things considered it makes sense for a Sword to eventually evolve into an Energy Sword and become deadlier than ever. A bow’s evolutionary line, though, involves several more steps:
>
> The Bow evolves into the Crossbow
> The Crossbow evolves into the Musket
> The Musket evolves into the Rifle
> The Rifle evolves into the Plasma Rifle.
>
> And since we already have the Plasma Rifle, I fail to see the point.

Thanks for the perspective. They still would use swords and knives for CQB but the bow like you said got upgraded to what it is. The bow though is a silent weapon and seems to suit a stealth Elite who wants to shoot from afar but stay quiet. That’s all I can think of for bringing it in as a weapon other than it’s tactical possibilities.

8623

Canonical multiplayer was one of the dumbest ideas that has ever hit Halo. Multiplayer should just be pure make believe fun. I want Elites back, and I want no more Infinity garbage.

8624

> Canonical multiplayer was one of the dumbest ideas that has ever hit Halo. Multiplayer should just be pure make believe fun. I want Elites back, and I want no more Infinity garbage.

Just saying. Having canonical Elites and Spartans fighting together could be a lot of fun.

It’s not like that cannon is the definitive reason that Elites weren’t in Halo 4.

Elites or cannon? why not both?

8625

> Just saying. Having canonical Elites and Spartans fighting together could be a lot of fun.
>
> It’s not like that cannon is the definitive reason that Elites weren’t in Halo 4.
>
> Elites or cannon? why not both?

  1. Having a Canonical reason behind the multiplayer limits the amount of creative freedom with the people who create the game in the first place. How can you explain stuff to reason’s like Mini Slayer, Mods, lag, or anything that sounds ridiculous in the first place and say that part of the multiplayer is canon? You don’t because like I said, it sounds outrages.

  2. You don’t need a full on explanation as to why the Elite’s are fighting with or without the Spartans in Multiplayer. They pretty much been doing that since Halo 2 and they been enemies with the player through the campaign, yet were still an option to be able to play as the Sangheili.

8626

As far as making matchmaking “Canonical” its all a simulation. So there is no need for explanation. The eight teams are fighting each other so they get higher rank, so it just makes sense that in a training sim, you’d have the enemy’s you’re ACTUALLY going to face in a real firefight. But, to be fair, a Spartan going into a simulation and playing as an Elite doesn’t make much sense, it does if the Elites (Thel 'Vadam Loyalists) go into a sim, and play as Elites.

8627

> 1. Having a Canonical reason behind the multiplayer limits the amount of creative freedom with the people who create the game in the first place. How can you explain stuff to reason’s like Mini Slayer, Mods, lag, or anything that sounds ridiculous in the first place and say that part of the multiplayer is canon? You don’t because like I said, it sounds outrages.

It’s a simulator. Stat trek got away with an Android pretending to be Sherlock Holmes. If they can get away with that then it shouldn’t be hard to get away with what we want from the game play in Halo. Creative freedom wont be limited.

If someone on the Infinity wants to program a simulation where everyone’s the size a Grunt and can destroy vehicles with their bare hands then I don’t see why that would be an issue with the continuity, it’s a programmable simulator, anything goes.

And the golden rule of game play over cannon still exists in full force. Saying that lag has to be explained is a pretty poor thing to complain about, we still get lag in S ops and that doesn’t have to be explained. There are plenty of instances in the Campaign where the game play has to come before the cannon and the same will go for the multi player.

We can still make any game type we want and the golden rule still exists. And another thing to note is that 343 have just as much power over the story that will supposedly cause limitations as they do over the game play itself. They write the story therefore if the story limits them it’s their fault for writing the story that way, which is something that wont happen because they are aware that they’re in this positions and it’s their decision to be in that position. They wouldn’t have made the multi player cannon if 343 hadn’t planed for it to work well in a way that benefits both the cannon and multi player. Nothing will become restricted or limited due to the cannon because 343 have control over it. It’s 343 intentions to mix these two worlds together and they wouldn’t have done it if they hadn’t planed for it to work. They still have undisputed control over Halo and what happens in it and making multi player cannon is what they chose to do with that control.

And just look. Halo 4 may of had it’s problems but they were due to other factors, not the cannon. We still had Griff ball, Action sack and a bunch of other ridiculous game types and the cannon didn’t affect them at all.

You could say that Elites weren’t put in the game because of the cannon but you could also say that they weren’t put in for a bunch of other reasons too. Plus there’s the fact that we’ve seen Elites in the simulator in Escalation so if cannon was an excuse before it certainly isn’t now. If Elites aren’t in Halo 5 it wont be the cannon’s fault.

> 2. You don’t need a full on explanation as to why the Elite’s are fighting with or without the Spartans in Multiplayer. They pretty much been doing that since Halo 2 and they been enemies with the player through the campaign, yet were still an option to be able to play as the Sangheili.

We don’t need a full explanation but it would still be nice to have one. Imagine all the story potential.

Imagine if the Elites working with the SIVs had an equivalent to Palmer? I’d love for it to be Rtas. And then they could argue with each other all the time over who’s better and so many other cool things that could come with it.

Having Elites that work with Spartans inevitably means more Human-Sangheili treaties which means we’ll learn more about the current galactic politics and that means we could see Thel and Lydus along with other characters.

A cool thing to see would be seeing some more Separatist gear around Infinity. Maybe some docked Banshees and Seraphs. Oh! And have some of those Covenant SOEIV equivalents hung up.

Having mixed teams of SIVs and Elites can go in so many good directions.

And it’ll all be in game for everyone to see. Not just those who spring for the books and comics.

And so much more! There’s so much 343 can do it hurts! Well not hurt but there’s a bunch of stuff.

8628

> > > > > I think a bow might be a bit low-tech for Elites, and a bow is also pretty human. If it’s Arbiter’s men, then maybe humans can lend them some, but an ancient Sangheili weapon could be interesting.
> > > > > And, tactical weapons/equipment could be neat, and it would be a good parallel to silenced UNSC weapons, should they ever return.
> > > >
> > > > I think a covenant bow type weapon would be pretty cool although I’m not sure about it providing extra mobility. Maybe make it like the torque bow from GoW or give it a tripwire function. 343 needs to introduce some new covenant technology for the new halo. All we got in H4 was the storm rifle which was only a new design for the plasma rifle. Wish they would bring back some stuff from reach like focus rifle and revenant as well as playable elites.
> > >
> > > The plasma sword evolved into its’ plasma state, so can an Elite version of the bow which would likely have a unique Sangheili design. Perhaps a tactical weapon could have more than one option when using it for tactics. Such as being able to to zip across locations or have tripwire functions if properly set. These options could be enabled and disabled, so if you only want the bow to provide the user with zip-lines then so be it. This could allow for new unique mini games as well and new types of map control. Another new Elite weapon could be taking the mini scarab gun literally and providing this as a power weapon.
> >
> > Well all things considered it makes sense for a Sword to eventually evolve into an Energy Sword and become deadlier than ever. A bow’s evolutionary line, though, involves several more steps:
> >
> > The Bow evolves into the Crossbow
> > The Crossbow evolves into the Musket
> > The Musket evolves into the Rifle
> > The Rifle evolves into the Plasma Rifle.
> >
> > And since we already have the Plasma Rifle, I fail to see the point.
>
> Thanks for the perspective. They still would use swords and knives for CQB but the bow like you said got upgraded to what it is. The bow though is a silent weapon and seems to suit a stealth Elite who wants to shoot from afar but stay quiet. That’s all I can think of for bringing it in as a weapon other than it’s tactical possibilities.

Well then they’d likely opt for a silent rifle. It’s been implied in the past that the primary difference between the Carbine and the Needle Rifle was similar to the difference between the DMR and the BR in terms of military deployment. In Halo 2 and 3 the Elites you fought alongside were generally Special Ops, meaning they deployed with more silent weapons such as the Carbine, which had a small “ping” for a firing sound, and didn’t attract a whole lot of attention due to it’s quick killing radiation capabilities.

On the flipside, the Needle Rifle is a more powerful rifle, especially against fleshy targets. But it’s not remotely subtle considering it can cause explosions. In Halo Reach we were also fighting the main arm of the Covenant Military throughout the entire game.

So if you look at it like that, the Carbine is the Elites’ answer to a “Stealth Rifle”.

8629

> > > > > > I think a bow might be a bit low-tech for Elites, and a bow is also pretty human. If it’s Arbiter’s men, then maybe humans can lend them some, but an ancient Sangheili weapon could be interesting.
> > > > > > And, tactical weapons/equipment could be neat, and it would be a good parallel to silenced UNSC weapons, should they ever return.
> > > > >
> > > > > I think a covenant bow type weapon would be pretty cool although I’m not sure about it providing extra mobility. Maybe make it like the torque bow from GoW or give it a tripwire function. 343 needs to introduce some new covenant technology for the new halo. All we got in H4 was the storm rifle which was only a new design for the plasma rifle. Wish they would bring back some stuff from reach like focus rifle and revenant as well as playable elites.
> > > >
> > > > The plasma sword evolved into its’ plasma state, so can an Elite version of the bow which would likely have a unique Sangheili design. Perhaps a tactical weapon could have more than one option when using it for tactics. Such as being able to to zip across locations or have tripwire functions if properly set. These options could be enabled and disabled, so if you only want the bow to provide the user with zip-lines then so be it. This could allow for new unique mini games as well and new types of map control. Another new Elite weapon could be taking the mini scarab gun literally and providing this as a power weapon.
> > >
> > > Well all things considered it makes sense for a Sword to eventually evolve into an Energy Sword and become deadlier than ever. A bow’s evolutionary line, though, involves several more steps:
> > >
> > > The Bow evolves into the Crossbow
> > > The Crossbow evolves into the Musket
> > > The Musket evolves into the Rifle
> > > The Rifle evolves into the Plasma Rifle.
> > >
> > > And since we already have the Plasma Rifle, I fail to see the point.
> >
> > Thanks for the perspective. They still would use swords and knives for CQB but the bow like you said got upgraded to what it is. The bow though is a silent weapon and seems to suit a stealth Elite who wants to shoot from afar but stay quiet. That’s all I can think of for bringing it in as a weapon other than it’s tactical possibilities.
>
> Well then they’d likely opt for a silent rifle. It’s been implied in the past that the primary difference between the Carbine and the Needle Rifle was similar to the difference between the DMR and the BR in terms of military deployment. In Halo 2 and 3 the Elites you fought alongside were generally Special Ops, meaning they deployed with more silent weapons such as the Carbine, which had a small “ping” for a firing sound, and didn’t attract a whole lot of attention due to it’s quick killing radiation capabilities.
>
> On the flipside, the Needle Rifle is a more powerful rifle, especially against fleshy targets. But it’s not remotely subtle considering it can cause explosions. In Halo Reach we were also fighting the main arm of the Covenant Military throughout the entire game.
>
> So if you look at it like that, the Carbine is the Elites’ answer to a “Stealth Rifle”.

Yeah, but the Carbine still made a decent amount of noise compared to other guns. The Carbine was quite, but not silent. Also, the Covenant loyalists used them all the time, either by Brutes, Jackals or just lying around in boxes. They don’t really seem to be “specialized”, outside of Grunts, Hunters, and Drones not being able to use them.

8630

Halo 5 Elite op would Be sick as hale!

8631

Ok everygheili, here’s a fun little question that I think will have some interesting answers.

If we were to get Elites in Halo 5 and not only that but canonical Elites to go along with the SIVs what would your ideal explanation be? What would you love to see in the story that would cause playable Elites to occur and what else would you like to see as a result of canonical Elites happening. eg. Commander Half-jaw?

8632

> Ok everygheili, here’s a fun little question that I think will have some interesting answers.
>
> If we were to get Elites in Halo 5 and not only that but canonical Elites to go along with the SIVs what would your ideal explanation be? What would you love to see in the story that would cause playable Elites to occur and what else would you like to see as a result of canonical Elites happening. eg. Commander Half-jaw?

The Covenant Remnant, low on supplies and troops, attack Sangheilios in an attempt to gain resources. After a long, grueling battle, the Remnant conquer Sangheilios, and gain a foothold in the galaxy. The rest of the Sangheili, led by Arbiter and Shipmaster, ally themselves with the crew of Infinity in order to defeat the Remnant and restore peace.

In order to combat the Remnant, Sangheili are given a various array of armor and tech to use in the War Games in order to train themselves. Shipmaster works in tandem with Lasky and Palmer on the bridge of Infinity, while Arbiter and the Sangheili Special Ops assist Chief.

8633

> Making Matchmaking canonical is probably one of the most stupidest things any dev team could do.

Not to pick nits, but this screams “marketing” more than dev, unless you mean franchise dev and not technical dev? In either case, I see where they’re coming from. I understand why they did it – it helped to develop new characters and ships, expand the franchise. The more you cross-pollinate things, the stronger the brand, allegedly.

But it screams business decision, not game decision. So I partly agree with you. I never needed a reason for Red vs blue, and suddenly there are these canonical explanations around it. To me, it felt forced, unnecessary. I went from my trusted and beloved MM experience to one of points, meters, perks, and restrictions (restrictions of armor, character models…)

Maybe it works for the younger generation, but an old salt like me is not swayed. If anything, I lost some of what made Halo “classic” to me. So bring back the elite player models, even if only in a true-to-scale game type like Invasion. It doesn’t need to make canonical sense, it just needs to make good MM sense.

Now get off my lawn lol.

8634

> > Making Matchmaking canonical is probably one of the most stupidest things any dev team could do.
>
> Not to pick nits, but this screams “marketing” more than dev, unless you mean franchise dev and not technical dev? In either case, I see where they’re coming from. I understand why they did it – it helped to develop new characters and ships, expand the franchise. The more you cross-pollinate things, the stronger the brand, allegedly.
>
> But it screams business decision, not game decision. So I partly agree with you. I never needed a reason for Red vs blue, and suddenly there are these canonical explanations around it. To me, it felt forced, unnecessary. I went from my trusted and beloved MM experience to one of points, meters, perks, and restrictions (restrictions of armor, character models…)
>
> Maybe it works for the younger generation, but an old salt like me is not swayed. If anything, I lost some of what made Halo “classic” to me. So bring back the elite player models, even if only in a true-to-scale game type like Invasion. It doesn’t need to make canonical sense, it just needs to make good MM sense.
>
> Now get off my lawn lol.

While canon-Matchmaking was never really asked for, I still think it is a neat feature that connects me to the Halo Universe, even if it doesn’t really add much.

The idea of War Games existed long before Halo 4, during my days of Reach. Matchmaking being a simulator was just my headcanon that I used to connect my Spartan to the Halo universe without making him Noble Six. I just filled in any ambiguities as I went, and I was just fine.

We don’t need perks and such to have Multiplayer make sense. All we need is an explanation of how the old Multiplayer makes sense (explain everything unexplainable, like Haunted and the Kill Ball). Heck, if 343 came out and said
“Multiplayer is War Games, where Spartans train to fight. Spartan Ops is where they fight real enemies. Elites hang out with Spartans because friendship. Now go play Halo.”
then I would take it with a grain of salt and continue on.

8635

I have a primarily Spartan cast of characters that I like to take into battle, but at the same time I would really love the opportunity to make an Elite character I can actually take into MM.

Although I most have always played as Spartans, I miss the Elites online. If they were given equal amounts of armor pieces and customization options to the Spartans, I think it would even draw more people to them; originally, I played as an Elite when I picked up the series in Halo 3. I switched to Spartan because of the lack of options to make him my own.

As for the Combat Deck thing with MM being canonical simulation practice, well Sangheili under Thel’Vadum are friendly to the UNSC. There is no reason whatsoever that they can’t have soldiers in our ships fighting beside us. (Yes, I know they need everyone defending their home, yadda yadda, but it’s not as outrageous as it would’ve been before Halo 3’s ending)

Hell, you could even make an argument for them having a presence in the SPARTAN-IV program. Imagine that; Sangheili/Spartan joint operations with cooperatively developed tech for both sides. We already have Jiralhanae and Sangheili reverse-engineered tech on S-IVs (Stalker/Contoured), why not take that one step further and add some UNSC-made/inspired/co-op gear for the Elite model?

Humanity is in a new age, they’ve made that abundantly clear. And with the Reclamation beginning, we’re going to have a reason to work together again against a common threat. Canonical Multiplayer and Sangheili in MM are not mutually exclusive.

8636

> I have a primarily Spartan cast of characters that I like to take into battle, but at the same time I would really love the opportunity to make an Elite character I can actually take into MM.
>
> Although I most have always played as Spartans, I miss the Elites online. If they were given equal amounts of armor pieces and customization options to the Spartans, I think it would even draw more people to them; originally, I played as an Elite when I picked up the series in Halo 3. I switched to Spartan because of the lack of options to make him my own.
>
> As for the Combat Deck thing with MM being canonical simulation practice, well Sangheili under Thel’Vadum are friendly to the UNSC. There is no reason whatsoever that they can’t have soldiers in our ships fighting beside us. (Yes, I know they need everyone defending their home, yadda yadda, but it’s not as outrageous as it would’ve been before Halo 3’s ending)
>
> Hell, you could even make an argument for them having a presence in the SPARTAN-IV program. Imagine that; Sangheili/Spartan joint operations with cooperatively developed tech for both sides. We already have Jiralhanae and Sangheili reverse-engineered tech on S-IVs (Stalker/Contoured), why not take that one step further and add some UNSC-made/inspired/co-op gear for the Elite model?
>
> Humanity is in a new age, they’ve made that abundantly clear. And with the Reclamation beginning, we’re going to have a reason to work together again against a common threat. Canonical Multiplayer and Sangheili in MM are not mutually exclusive.

This.

One thing I love is this whole post summarizes a lot of problems Elites have had over the years. First, no armor, then not making them default characters, finally removing them all together.

What confuses me is how couldn’t 343 have done all of this in Halo 4, when the fans came up with it weeks after Halo 4’s launch. It seems like “Arbiter’s friendly Elites” would be a no-brainer, so why don’t we have them?

8637

I really do hope that we see Arbiter and his elites in the next Halo. It would be really cool if master chief somehow ended up on Sangheilios, helped Arbiter with his civil war, and then teamed back up like in Halo 3. I would always be 2nd player when playing the H3 campaign just to play as arbiter.

And remember guys, E3 isn’t too far off. We might get a little more info on Halo 5 and even an announcement for Halo 2 Anniversary.

8638

After reading the Kilo-5 trilogy, watching Halo: Infinity and FuD I have to say that I want playable Elites in matchmaking more than ever. Jul 'Mdama is the best Sangheili character we have got in the series yet.

If multiplayer remains canonical then even better. It can only mean that we will get a better look at how Sangheili operate and interact while working alongside humans.

8639

> I really do hope that we see Arbiter and his elites in the next Halo. It would be really cool if master chief somehow ended up on Sangheilios, helped Arbiter with his civil war, and then teamed back up like in Halo 3. I would always be 2nd player when playing the H3 campaign just to play as arbiter.
>
> And remember guys, E3 isn’t too far off. We might get a little more info on Halo 5 and even an announcement for Halo 2 Anniversary.

I think they should let players choose who they want to be instead of force them to be a character when in a certain slot.
-So if I want to be Arby but I’m in slot one and soloing then maybe it should be a separate campaign or having an AI controlled master chief.
-If I’m in slot one and playing with someone in slot two then they should be able to be MC and I should be able to play as Arby.
-For slots 3 and 4 they could have four unique characters, two elites, and two spartans.
I think if 343 added this in it would remove the annoyance of having to rejoin a game just so we can actually play as who we want.

8640

happy to see this is still around :slight_smile:

8641

I hope we see Elites in Halo 5. They have to be there.