Sangheili (Elites) In New Trilogy Matchmaking (Part 1)

Games Halo 5: Guardians
7842

Equality… does not mean identical but rather uniqueness that has advantages and disadvantages.

Reading over the previous posts, all people stated about Elites in matchmaking was that the hitbox was the main problem or it maybe is possible to find a way to balance with a spartan-IV but no one actually offered any fundamental equalizing changes rather letting 343 Industries make a rough guess and fill in the rest thus risking another hating incident by the fans… ATTENTION TO DETAIL is the key to these types of forums people. So lets try to find more canon friendly but creative ways to play around with the balance. In the end, to balance a species but keep its uniqueness it needs trial and error think Starcraft with the constant patching until it is just slight tweaking…

In the case, where multiplayer requires canon then here is my thoughts about an equality but not identical features for species.

Elites being the bigger, stronger and more biologically evolved than humans, should have a lot more generalized upgrades. These upgrades should be that as they are larger, they should have a slightly larger hitbox; they should have slanted heads as their body structure differentiates from humans but have less resistance as their helmets are less advanced than the spartans-IV; having stronger bodies they should be generally faster as their muscles would be stronger and so higher jump height and general movement speed; as the covenant first designed the shields they would have the better developed and so slightly stronger shield strength. Melee damage and sprint should match Spartans-IVs, as Elites may have stronger bodies and so could keep up with the augmented humans in their armor.

Spartan-IV being slightly smaller and less biologically evolved than Elites, should be more agile and have better combat prowess as the assistance from their technological armor and augmentations. Their hitbox should be classified as normal; Their heads are upright and easier to get a headshot but have a slight resistance due to their helmets armor plating; the Spartan-IVs should have a slight upgrade in aim assist and reaction time to better portray the armor assistance and augmentations; they should have a slight damage resistance as the titanium alloy of their armor could soak some of the damage; there melee damage is equal to that of elites but their sprint is slightly faster as the armor can work faster than the elites body.

Elites - being taller and stronger in stature than Spartans but they have a different bone structure and so have a slight hunch.

Elite Statistics
Hitbox - 125%
Head Position (Headshot Resistance) - Slanted (100%)
Agility (Jumping Height, General Movement) - 125% [Larger muscles, Bone structure]
Health (Shield Strength) - 125% [Original Covenant Shields]
Melee Damage - 100% (normal)
Sprint - 100% (normal)

Spartan-IV - range in heights, strength but are slightly inferior without their Mjolnir armour.

Spartan-IV
Hitbox - 100% (normal)
Head Position (Headshot Resistance) - Upright (125%)
Agility (Aim assist, Reaction speed) - 125% [Augmentations, Armor Assistance]
Health (Damage Resistance) - 125% [Armor Protection]
Melee Damage - 100% (normal)
Sprint - 125% [Armor assistance]

On the comment on whether Elites should have evade people may get mobility perk and spam evade…

7843

> Equality… does not mean identical but rather uniqueness that has advantages and disadvantages.
>
> Reading over the previous posts, all people stated about Elites in matchmaking was that the hitbox was the main problem or it maybe is possible to find a way to balance with a spartan-IV but no one actually offered any fundamental equalizing changes rather letting 343 Industries make a rough guess and fill in the rest thus risking another hating incident by the fans… ATTENTION TO DETAIL is the key to these types of forums people. So lets try to find more canon friendly but creative ways to play around with the balance. In the end, to balance a species but keep its uniqueness it needs trial and error think Starcraft with the constant patching until it is just slight tweaking…
>
> In the case, where multiplayer requires canon then here is my thoughts about an equality but not identical features for species.
>
> Elites being the bigger, stronger and more biologically evolved than humans, should have a lot more generalized upgrades. These upgrades should be that as they are larger, they should have a slightly larger hitbox; they should have slanted heads as their body structure differentiates from humans but have less resistance as their helmets are less advanced than the spartans-IV; having stronger bodies they should be generally faster as their muscles would be stronger and so higher jump height and general movement speed; as the covenant first designed the shields they would have the better developed and so slightly stronger shield strength. Melee damage and sprint should match Spartans-IVs, as Elites may have stronger bodies and so could keep up with the augmented humans in their armor.
>
> Spartan-IV being slightly smaller and less biologically evolved than Elites, should be more agile and have better combat prowess as the assistance from their technological armor and augmentations. Their hitbox should be classified as normal; Their heads are upright and easier to get a headshot but have a slight resistance due to their helmets armor plating; the Spartan-IVs should have a slight upgrade in aim assist and reaction time to better portray the armor assistance and augmentations; they should have a slight damage resistance as the titanium alloy of their armor could soak some of the damage; there melee damage is equal to that of elites but their sprint is slightly faster as the armor can work faster than the elites body.
>
> Elites - being taller and stronger in stature than Spartans but they have a different bone structure and so have a slight hunch.
>
> Elite Statistics
> Hitbox - 125%
> Head Position (Headshot Resistance) - Slanted (100%)
> Agility (Jumping Height, General Movement) - 125% [Larger muscles, Bone structure]
> Health (Shield Strength) - 125% [Original Covenant Shields]
> Melee Damage - 100% (normal)
> Sprint - 100% (normal)
>
> Spartan-IV - range in heights, strength but are slightly inferior without their Mjolnir armour.
>
> Spartan-IV
> Hitbox - 100% (normal)
> Head Position (Headshot Resistance) - Upright (125%)
> Agility (Aim assist, Reaction speed) - 125% [Augmentations, Armor Assistance]
> Health (Damage Resistance) - 125% [Armor Protection]
> Melee Damage - 100% (normal)
> Sprint - 125% [Armor assistance]
>
> On the comment on whether Elites should have evade people may get mobility perk and spam evade…

Walking speed in Reach has always favoured the Sangheili,and sprinting should as well,their more developed bodies hence more powerful muscles would lead to this advantage.The Sangheili have the Didact,who is familiar with Forerunner technology hence making the incorporation of it into Sangheili combat harnesses possible.The explanation of the Spartans’ sprint being due to armour assistance and out running Sangheili would be overruled.I think its over thought.343i isn’t going to spend that much time doing the balancing act,the things you stated are superfluous but are nice,its been a while since we’ve seen someone bring such sophisticated balancing proposals to the table.The development time given to Halo 5 is less than Halo 4,and 343i is already rather busy on things like campaign,having to make it longer since the community disdained its short duration.This balancing act requires experimentation and a lot of testing,but most of all time.Which 343i does not have much of.I say we keep it simple,let the Sangheili have the larger hit boxes that they did in Reach but be able to walk and sprint faster(if the latter is in Halo 5) and be able to automatically regenerate their health,if that too is in Halo 5.

7844

I have never posted on this, but this thread is amazing. Nearly 400 pages!!! How 'bout you listen to us 343i!!!

Anyway, if elites were to come back, there should be a lot of ranks for multiplayer.
Such as
Minor
Minor without helmet like Gek had
Major
Officer
Commander
Spec Ops
Ranger
Air Borne
Zealot
General
Field Marshall
Councilor
Honor Guard
And maybe for DLC you could get Jul M’Dama and Arbiter armor!

7845

Hey guys long time no see due to school and internet trouble=( So what’s new any reply yet?

7846

Nothing much really,but do you know about a week or so ago,a Sgt Rorschach posted on this thread.He played Perseus in Rise Of The Spartans,and I believe he’s the real deal.

7847

I am not going to read every page on this thread because it is frickin huge.

But i would love a ranking system for your spartan and a seperate one for your elite. sorry if it has been previously talked about i just really cbf reading that much.

7848

A way to justify smaller Elites could be that they’re younger than the ones we’ve seen. Given that their culture revolves around training into becoming deadly soldiers/hunters, it could make sense for the Elites to give the “Spartan way” a try. Imagine peace efforts between the Humans and Elites to lead to this, as a sign of trust and good will. They could be just as effective as S-IVs (and maybe teach a few of them a thing or two about being a real soldier, rather than whatever you may consider the S-IVs now).

Gameplay-wise, this could either reduce or outright nullify the need for a disparity in movement speed for multiplayer. The Reach-era Elite posture would allow for headshots to be possible from any angle (same as Spartan model) while giving them a fitting hitbox.

Story-wise, this development in the treaty between the humans and Elites would help players know that the Arbiter is aligned with Humanity, as well as give Gabriel Thorne a new ally in his squad. This could be likened to the alliance between Master Chief and the Arbiter in Halo 3 (distrusting at first, but working together to combat a common enemy, they come to respect each other).The fact that both John and Thel were experienced soldiers with years under their belts, while these two would be considered more as competent “rookies”, would be an interesting development indeed.

7849

> Nothing much really,but do you know about a week or so ago,a Sgt Rorschach posted on this thread.He played Perseus in Rise Of The Spartans,and I believe he’s the real deal.

Forgive me if I sound ignorant but I don’t know who that is. He sounds cool though especially if supports us!

7850

> I am not going to read every page on this thread because it is frickin huge.
>
> But i would love a ranking system for your spartan and a seperate one for your elite. sorry if it has been previously talked about i just really cbf reading that much.

I don’t know about this idea but I would like it if you could have separate colors for your spartan and elite. That way I could have a gold zealot without having a gold ODST.

7851

Yeah Darth,I’ve always had to constantly swap colors in Reach when joining custom games,it got really irritating.And yes Darth,Rise Of The Spartans is a machinima directed by the great Arbiter 617 .It has 8 episodes with a 9th slated for release this year.Each episode is about 2 hours long,you should go give it a watch,its very good.He’s a big name in the community and one of the most well known machinima makers in the Halo community.He strongly supports the return of the Sangheili in the next Halo,we need more people like him whom have large spheres of influence supporting our cause.

7852

> Yeah Darth,I’ve always had to constantly swap colors in Reach when joining custom games,it got really irritating.And yes Darth,Rise Of The Spartans is a machinima directed by the great Arbiter 617 .It has 8 episodes with a 9th slated for release this year.Each episode is about 2 hours long,you should go give it a watch,its very good.He’s a big name in the community and one of the most well known machinima makers in the Halo community.He strongly supports the return of the Sangheili in the next Halo,we need more people like him whom have large spheres of influence supporting our cause.

Okay I’ll have to check out the series after this semester when I have more time.

7853

> Equality… does not mean identical but rather uniqueness that has advantages and disadvantages.
>
> Reading over the previous posts, all people stated about Elites in matchmaking was that the hitbox was the main problem or it maybe is possible to find a way to balance with a spartan-IV but no one actually offered any fundamental equalizing changes rather letting 343 Industries make a rough guess and fill in the rest thus risking another hating incident by the fans… ATTENTION TO DETAIL is the key to these types of forums people. So lets try to find more canon friendly but creative ways to play around with the balance. <mark>In the end, to balance a species but keep its uniqueness it needs trial and error think Starcraft with the constant patching until it is just slight tweaking…</mark>
> In the case, where multiplayer requires canon then here is my thoughts about an equality but not identical features for species.
>
> Elites being the bigger, stronger and more biologically evolved than humans, should have a lot more generalized upgrades. These upgrades should be that as they are larger, they should have a slightly larger hitbox; they should have slanted heads as their body structure differentiates from humans but have less resistance as their helmets are less advanced than the spartans-IV; having stronger bodies they should be generally faster as their muscles would be stronger and so higher jump height and general movement speed; as the covenant first designed the shields they would have the better developed and so slightly stronger shield strength. Melee damage and sprint should match Spartans-IVs, as Elites may have stronger bodies and so could keep up with the augmented humans in their armor.
>
> Spartan-IV being slightly smaller and less biologically evolved than Elites, should be more agile and have better combat prowess as the assistance from their technological armor and augmentations. Their hitbox should be classified as normal; Their heads are upright and easier to get a headshot but have a slight resistance due to their helmets armor plating; the Spartan-IVs should have a slight upgrade in aim assist and reaction time to better portray the armor assistance and augmentations; they should have a slight damage resistance as the titanium alloy of their armor could soak some of the damage; there melee damage is equal to that of elites but their sprint is slightly faster as the armor can work faster than the elites body.
>
> Elites - being taller and stronger in stature than Spartans but they have a different bone structure and so have a slight hunch.
>
> Elite Statistics
> Hitbox - 125%
> Head Position (Headshot Resistance) - Slanted (100%)
> Agility (Jumping Height, General Movement) - 125% [Larger muscles, Bone structure]
> Health (Shield Strength) - 125% [Original Covenant Shields]
> Melee Damage - 100% (normal)
> Sprint - 100% (normal)
>
> Spartan-IV - range in heights, strength but are slightly inferior without their Mjolnir armour.
>
> Spartan-IV
> Hitbox - 100% (normal)
> Head Position (Headshot Resistance) - Upright (125%)
> Agility (Aim assist, Reaction speed) - 125% [Augmentations, Armor Assistance]
> Health (Damage Resistance) - 125% [Armor Protection]
> Melee Damage - 100% (normal)
> Sprint - 125% [Armor assistance]
>
> On the comment on whether Elites should have evade people may get mobility perk and spam evade…

I think this is the way to go. As for the previously discussed armor sets I personally would like armor pieces that can be mixed and matched. Though for the people who like the single armor sets, when the correct pieces are placed together it should look like a united set, and for the people who like to mix up different pieces perhaps we could see the set also take a unique united look.

7854

That suggested balancing act seems fairly equalized.But one objection:The Sangheili,regardless,should be able to run and walk faster,just as they did in Reach.It seems quite a lot of work to be done and requiring many man hours to test,time which 343i does not have.I say we keep it simple and let Sangheili and Spartan traits stay the same as they did in Reach.

7855

> That suggested balancing act seems fairly equalized.But one objection:The Sangheili,regardless,should be able to run and walk faster,just as they did in Reach.It seems quite a lot of work to be done and requiring many man hours to test,time which 343i does not have.I say we keep it simple and let Sangheili and Spartan traits stay the same as they did in Reach.

I don’t necessarily want them to run faster as I don’t see it as a big deal plus I would like people to stop having that excuse.

7856

But having equal traits is fairly unorthodox and deviates from Reach.If we would not like the hunchback stance from Halo 3 we would have to settle with a slightly larger hit box as we did from Reach,of which I am fine with.I do admit that it’ll result in us not being able to fit into certain tight spaces,but thats quite situational,and the faster speed sorta compensates for that.

7857

> But having equal traits is fairly unorthodox and deviates from Reach.If we would not like the hunchback stance from Halo 3 we would have to settle with a slightly larger hit box as we did from Reach,of which I am fine with.I do admit that it’ll result in us not being able to fit into certain tight spaces,but thats quite situational,and the faster speed sorta compensates for that.

Or the Elites in multiplayer could simply be younger, and therefore smaller. This would allow them to have the same movement speed, shield strength, jump height, etc. Going by the Reach-era posture, the Elites would be susceptible to headshots to the same extent as the S-IV model (although having an independent, yet same-sized, hitbox to fit its form). Neither the Halo 3 nor the Reach approach to implementing Elites were flawless (H3 had unfitted hitboxes and “overly hunched” models, while Reach had Elites with different stats that didn’t equal out as “fair” in comparison to the S-IIIs).

So why not learn from the mistakes of both? Give Elites fitted hitboxes, make them vulnerable to headshots from behind like a Spartan, make them equal to allow for their use in all gametypes, rather than in a select few.

7858

You know one thing I realized as a final hooah from Bungie to us is they should have made one MIXED playlist that had both Sangheili and Spartans in the same gametype.

Damn you hindsight.

Other than that, Lore Wise we got this in the bag.

Gameplay well we seem to agree, Reach had the best ones. (Still would have thought it cool when you spoke on team chat your mandibles moved, but that’s asking too much)

Armor is set.

By god, we pretty much thought of everything but 343I doesn’t want to say a thing. And I would totally make a political jab but I know that would not end well.

That’s the final issue really, is WTF is 343i up to now? They haven’t said a word and we’ve been VERY nice about it. Extremely nice from what I’ve seen. Unless we want to keep that going or switch tactics to asking them directly via email, forum, or actual mail via UPS or Fedex, I’m not sure they’re gonna budge. (does not insert political jab)

7859

Haven’t looked at this thread in a long time, glad to see it’s still going strong. Hopefully we’ll get something soon, seeing as Halo 5 is estimated to be only a year away at most, given the 2014 release. 343i will have to start giving details sooner rather than later.

7860

> I really envied Elites having full sets in Reach.
>
> As a Spartan player I was forced to mix and match and I just didn’t get that feeling of a sleek, futuristic knight in shining armor that I got in past games.
>
> It was great that Halo 4 brought full sets back but I would’ve liked to have some arm and leg armor to go with my Pathfinder as well with at least the majority of armor sets. Only Mk VI, Mk V, ODST, Prefect, FOTUS, Ricochet and Recruit are truly complete sets. Something I hope they fix in Halo 5.
>
> Wearing a complete armor set should be readily available to Elites and Spartans.

Using the names of their alternate Skins you can mixand match some other Armours together as well,for instance Wetwork and Contoured is part of a set, as well as Gungnir, and BULK.

7861

> You know one thing I realized as a final hooah from Bungie to us is they should have made one MIXED playlist that had both Sangheili and Spartans in the same gametype.
>
> Damn you hindsight.
>
> Other than that, Lore Wise we got this in the bag.
>
> Gameplay well we seem to agree, Reach had the best ones. (Still would have thought it cool when you spoke on team chat your mandibles moved, but that’s asking too much)
>
> Armor is set.
>
> By god, we pretty much thought of everything but 343I doesn’t want to say a thing. And I would totally make a political jab but I know that would not end well.
>
> That’s the final issue really, is WTF is 343i up to now? They haven’t said a word and we’ve been VERY nice about it. Extremely nice from what I’ve seen. Unless we want to keep that going or switch tactics to asking them directly via email, forum, or actual mail via UPS or Fedex, I’m not sure they’re gonna budge. (does not insert political jab)

How do we “seem to agree” I always see that argument split down the middle.

I seriously think the only way to TRULY have Elites back is to get to be them no matter what we do. The only way to get that, is to have them perfectly balanced in size, speed, shields, etc. Meaning Reach is the worst of two evils.