i’d rather play as a grunt
> > > > > > The physical differences the elites and spartans have would seem to be problematic for arena based game play…
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But hey, while we’re at it let’s add in a jackal sniper class that can scale trees and towers assasin’s creed/prince of persia style. Then we can have hunter tank class and drones for aerial combat.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you make it a cosmetic choice with no game play impact, then you are fine. If it has any real impact on game play, then it stops being a real choice for many many people.
> > > > >
> > > > > So you are saying it’s okay for elites to be taller or not?
> > > > >
> > > > > With that whole jackal/hunter thing:
> > > > > 1. That would be a campaign thing. Jackals and hunters aren’t in multiplayer. There is no canon explaining such types of units existed
> > > > > 2. Don’t diss people who want canon more involved in multiplayer by exaggerating that kind of stuff. Show some respect, not matter how much you disagree.
> > > > > 3. Jackals physically are incapable of committing such actions like scaling trees like monkeys. Jackals have double hinged jointed legs, therefore legs developed for trekking the ground, and therefore they physically can’t scale trees easily. The most they can do is possibly climb strait up onto a large branch or platform.
> > > >
> > > > I’m saying that the second your abandon equality, you are making it a class based game. If you are going to do that, you might as well go all the way. Its fine for a game type like Invasion where the whole point is that you have teams in different roles, but that’s also not a decision the player makes beyond deciding to participate in the play list.
> > > >
> > > > The elites are similar enough in stature to spartans that you might as well just bridge the gap and make them the same size for game play reasons if you are going to insist on having them available for the cosmetic fun factor. i’m all for incorporating story into the multiplayer where it makes sense, but introducing class discrepancy into play lists for the sake of cosmetics and peripheral (in the context of pvp) story elements is a mistake imo.
> > >
> > > Well as we can see, 343i seems to be expanding Bungie’s moves in Reach from an arena game to a class/arena hybrid. Chances are, and as the community suggested, both types of gameplay will divide multiplayer into two different sections. As for how 343i wants to deal with elite height… that’s a tad tricky and will be up to them to decide.
> >
> > Infinity settings were added in for game play reasons, not because they felt they had to in order to mesh with the Halo 4 story and setting. I’m not saying I agree with the decision making. I’m just saying that they didn’t introduce hologram simply because it appeared in a novel or something, so I can at least respect that they had a vision for the game play they wanted to engender(even if I drastically disagree with it).
> >
> > I was fine with the implementation of Halo 3 elites except for the obvious objective abuse and play lists like SWAT and snipes where head shooting was THE fundamental game play mechanic. But in a basic team slayer game, i had no problem with the halo 3 elite model appearing. I would have an issue with the Reach elites appearing with their different characteristics. Does that go a little further in answering your earlier question?
>
> Sorry for not making myself clear, I didn’t mean the more class based multiplayer of Halo 4 was based off of canon, I meant it was an idea 343i evolved off of Bungie and plans to have coexist with arena multiplayer.
>
> As for the elites, yes it does. At this point, I feel that a height difference and a jump height difference are all that are really needed to keep elites close to canon in multiplayer (which I and many others prefer). But that slightly defies arena gameplay as you said, so the large pro-arena crowd could get a bit angered by elites being slightly different.
In response to your desire for multiplayer to be more laced with canon aspects of the Halo universe, I must point out that even 343i themselves have compromised this vision for the sake of gameplay. Flood mode in Halo 4 uses a character model with the same hit-boxes, depicts a combat Form with no Infection form protruding from the chest, and looks nothing like what we’ve seen in past Halo games. The option for Elite character models is obviously a well-demanded reintroduction for the next game, but the desire to make them play differently from the S-IVs is something that DOES interfere with gameplay equality.
> > > > > > > The physical differences the elites and spartans have would seem to be problematic for arena based game play…
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > But hey, while we’re at it let’s add in a jackal sniper class that can scale trees and towers assasin’s creed/prince of persia style. Then we can have hunter tank class and drones for aerial combat.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If you make it a cosmetic choice with no game play impact, then you are fine. If it has any real impact on game play, then it stops being a real choice for many many people.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So you are saying it’s okay for elites to be taller or not?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > With that whole jackal/hunter thing:
> > > > > > 1. That would be a campaign thing. Jackals and hunters aren’t in multiplayer. There is no canon explaining such types of units existed
> > > > > > 2. Don’t diss people who want canon more involved in multiplayer by exaggerating that kind of stuff. Show some respect, not matter how much you disagree.
> > > > > > 3. Jackals physically are incapable of committing such actions like scaling trees like monkeys. Jackals have double hinged jointed legs, therefore legs developed for trekking the ground, and therefore they physically can’t scale trees easily. The most they can do is possibly climb strait up onto a large branch or platform.
> > > > >
> > > > > I’m saying that the second your abandon equality, you are making it a class based game. If you are going to do that, you might as well go all the way. Its fine for a game type like Invasion where the whole point is that you have teams in different roles, but that’s also not a decision the player makes beyond deciding to participate in the play list.
> > > > >
> > > > > The elites are similar enough in stature to spartans that you might as well just bridge the gap and make them the same size for game play reasons if you are going to insist on having them available for the cosmetic fun factor. i’m all for incorporating story into the multiplayer where it makes sense, but introducing class discrepancy into play lists for the sake of cosmetics and peripheral (in the context of pvp) story elements is a mistake imo.
> > > >
> > > > Well as we can see, 343i seems to be expanding Bungie’s moves in Reach from an arena game to a class/arena hybrid. Chances are, and as the community suggested, both types of gameplay will divide multiplayer into two different sections. As for how 343i wants to deal with elite height… that’s a tad tricky and will be up to them to decide.
> > >
> > > Infinity settings were added in for game play reasons, not because they felt they had to in order to mesh with the Halo 4 story and setting. I’m not saying I agree with the decision making. I’m just saying that they didn’t introduce hologram simply because it appeared in a novel or something, so I can at least respect that they had a vision for the game play they wanted to engender(even if I drastically disagree with it).
> > >
> > > I was fine with the implementation of Halo 3 elites except for the obvious objective abuse and play lists like SWAT and snipes where head shooting was THE fundamental game play mechanic. But in a basic team slayer game, i had no problem with the halo 3 elite model appearing. I would have an issue with the Reach elites appearing with their different characteristics. Does that go a little further in answering your earlier question?
> >
> > Sorry for not making myself clear, I didn’t mean the more class based multiplayer of Halo 4 was based off of canon, I meant it was an idea 343i evolved off of Bungie and plans to have coexist with arena multiplayer.
> >
> > As for the elites, yes it does. At this point, I feel that a height difference and a jump height difference are all that are really needed to keep elites close to canon in multiplayer (which I and many others prefer). But that slightly defies arena gameplay as you said, so the large pro-arena crowd could get a bit angered by elites being slightly different.
>
> In response to your desire for multiplayer to be more laced with canon aspects of the Halo universe, I must point out that even 343i themselves have compromised this vision for the sake of gameplay. Flood mode in Halo 4 uses a character model with the same hit-boxes, depicts a combat Form with no Infection form protruding from the chest, and looks nothing like what we’ve seen in past Halo games. The option for Elite character models is obviously a well-demanded reintroduction for the next game, but the desire to make them play differently from the S-IVs is something that DOES interfere with gameplay equality.
And you think I don’t realize that it affects the arena feel of Halo? I most certainly to, and as I’ve said all I want is a jump height difference and a height difference from elites in the next game (even in arena modes), but whether or not 343i wants to do that doesn’t really bother me as it is their choice.
People can be infected by a slower, spore infection by the flood. That would explain why these flood forms are so drastically different from the original being.
> > > > > > > > > * Remove “canon” from multiplayer, honestly it just complicates everything I just want to have fun
> > > > > > > > > * Return the spartan II models for multiplayer instead of the IV’s
> > > > > > > > > * Spartan II’s were almost equal height with the elites in CE, return elites to their CE models, they weren’t as hunched over as the other games so the hit boxes can be adjusted easier to make them equal.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Problem solved.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Incorrect actually. You do realize that with these terms you kick everyone who like multiplayer being involved with canon and like a difference between spartan and elite in the face, right?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The only thing we can really do is just hope elites return to multiplayer. Details are really out of our control from there for the most part.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I would like a canon explanation for Killballs, giant dice, giant soccer balls, and the 7-Wood. Oh right, that can’t be done.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The only differences there used to be with Spartans and Elites before were a small difference in height(not noticeable because Elites never stood straight up when you were fighting them) and that the Elites are well, aliens that look different. Same strength, speed, jump height, health, etc.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Those objects you mentioned, are all in customs. We don’t know if customs are canon and even then, I think some objects are there for practical/creative/humorous use.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don’t see the relevancy of your point explaining Halo 2-3 elites to quoting my above post. In case you missed Reach, there was a difference between spartan and elite.
> > > > >
> > > > > It’s a simple cold truth:
> > > > >
> > > > > If Elites are DIFFERENT from Spartans, they will never be available in Matchmaking.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The only way to make it so that we can choose to be an Elite at will, is to have them with the same size and traits as Spartans.
> > > > >
> > > > > Suck it up everyone who wants them different because unfortunately, if you get your way, we will NEVER have Elites in BTB again.
> > > >
> > > > I’m confused by this reasoning. You say elites will never be in matchmaking if they’re different, yet they are included, but limited, in Reach. What is your proof that your reasoning is fact? Unless you happen to be part of 343i (which I doubt) then that is just your assumption and opinion.
> > >
> > > Because the competitive community will cause a -Yoink!- over the fact that elites are different than Spartans.
> > >
> > > They tore them apart in Halo 3 and complained very bitterly about it all, despite there being no height or trait difference between the two, just a slightly different hitbox.
> > >
> > > And in all honesty: “I’d really rather not piss this thing off.”
> >
> > And what about the people who prefer canon affecting gameplay/liked playing as Reach elites/etc? Look, I understand your argument and I hope you understand mine, but as we can all see, it’s a community divided argument that 343i will have to make the final decision to implement. I don’t think there’s much more use in arguing over facts we know to be true.
>
> Like I said before, Invasion would allow Elites to be full size if 343i would make it so we could change the size of the player model.
>
> This would allow elites to be used in the all playlists, with a list for those who want a canon experience. In this way, we won’t be limited to just that playlist anyway (which we will if the elites are different height and stength by default).
>
> It’s seems like a simple solution where everyone wins.
I see your point and I agree, hunched elites for arena gametypes and canon elites for class based gametypes. So I guess elite player models would be coded to the gametype then, I believe that is easily possible.
> i’d rather play as a grunt
well you’d get killed a few times
> > i’d rather play as a grunt
>
> well you’d get killed a few times
You sure it would be just a few?
Perhaps this was mentioned somewhere in the 377 pages - but what is the canonical justification for the Flood models?
I’m fine with having the canonical justification for War Games - in fact, I actually like it.
But it seems like the justification for having “Spartans that look like Flood” would serve well enough for having “Spartans that look like Elites”.
> > > > > > > > > > * Remove “canon” from multiplayer, honestly it just complicates everything I just want to have fun
> > > > > > > > > > * Return the spartan II models for multiplayer instead of the IV’s
> > > > > > > > > > * Spartan II’s were almost equal height with the elites in CE, return elites to their CE models, they weren’t as hunched over as the other games so the hit boxes can be adjusted easier to make them equal.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Problem solved.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Incorrect actually. You do realize that with these terms you kick everyone who like multiplayer being involved with canon and like a difference between spartan and elite in the face, right?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The only thing we can really do is just hope elites return to multiplayer. Details are really out of our control from there for the most part.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I would like a canon explanation for Killballs, giant dice, giant soccer balls, and the 7-Wood. Oh right, that can’t be done.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The only differences there used to be with Spartans and Elites before were a small difference in height(not noticeable because Elites never stood straight up when you were fighting them) and that the Elites are well, aliens that look different. Same strength, speed, jump height, health, etc.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Those objects you mentioned, are all in customs. We don’t know if customs are canon and even then, I think some objects are there for practical/creative/humorous use.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I don’t see the relevancy of your point explaining Halo 2-3 elites to quoting my above post. In case you missed Reach, there was a difference between spartan and elite.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It’s a simple cold truth:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If Elites are DIFFERENT from Spartans, they will never be available in Matchmaking.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The only way to make it so that we can choose to be an Elite at will, is to have them with the same size and traits as Spartans.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Suck it up everyone who wants them different because unfortunately, if you get your way, we will NEVER have Elites in BTB again.
> > > > >
> > > > > I’m confused by this reasoning. You say elites will never be in matchmaking if they’re different, yet they are included, but limited, in Reach. What is your proof that your reasoning is fact? Unless you happen to be part of 343i (which I doubt) then that is just your assumption and opinion.
> > > >
> > > > Because the competitive community will cause a -Yoink!- over the fact that elites are different than Spartans.
> > > >
> > > > They tore them apart in Halo 3 and complained very bitterly about it all, despite there being no height or trait difference between the two, just a slightly different hitbox.
> > > >
> > > > And in all honesty: “I’d really rather not piss this thing off.”
> > >
> > > And what about the people who prefer canon affecting gameplay/liked playing as Reach elites/etc? Look, I understand your argument and I hope you understand mine, but as we can all see, it’s a community divided argument that 343i will have to make the final decision to implement. I don’t think there’s much more use in arguing over facts we know to be true.
> >
> > Like I said before, Invasion would allow Elites to be full size if 343i would make it so we could change the size of the player model.
> >
> > This would allow elites to be used in the all playlists, with a list for those who want a canon experience. In this way, we won’t be limited to just that playlist anyway (which we will if the elites are different height and stength by default).
> >
> > It’s seems like a simple solution where everyone wins.
>
> I see your point and I agree, hunched elites for arena gametypes and canon elites for class based gametypes. So I guess elite player models would be coded to the gametype then, I believe that is easily possible.
Not necessarily hunched, just scaled down. And it could simply be a trait in the custom gametype options which, given mini slayer and various non-dev flood gametypes, is definitely possible.
But yeah, you get the gist of it.
> > > i’d rather play as a grunt
> >
> > well you’d get killed a few times
>
> You sure it would be just a few?
Depends if he has the Ultra helmet, could kamikaze, or if he had a FRG. If he was a grunt with any of those, he would be attacked by anyone who saw him. If he was a regular grunt, then people would just feel kind of sorry for him and leave him be.
> > > > i’d rather play as a grunt
> > >
> > > well you’d get killed a few times
> >
> > You sure it would be just a few?
>
> Depends if he has the Ultra helmet, could kamikaze, or if he had a FRG. If he was a grunt with any of those, he would be attacked by anyone who saw him. If he was a regular grunt, then people would just feel kind of sorry for him and leave him be.
There is no mercy when they inevitably make the specific grunt punt assassination.
> > > > > i’d rather play as a grunt
> > > >
> > > > well you’d get killed a few times
> > >
> > > You sure it would be just a few?
> >
> > Depends if he has the Ultra helmet, could kamikaze, or if he had a FRG. If he was a grunt with any of those, he would be attacked by anyone who saw him. If he was a regular grunt, then people would just feel kind of sorry for him and leave him be.
>
> There is no mercy when they inevitably make the specific grunt punt assassination.
Could you imagine a Gravity hammer assassination where you swing it like a golf club at the grunt?
No mercy indeed.
> > > > > > i’d rather play as a grunt
> > > > >
> > > > > well you’d get killed a few times
> > > >
> > > > You sure it would be just a few?
> > >
> > > Depends if he has the Ultra helmet, could kamikaze, or if he had a FRG. If he was a grunt with any of those, he would be attacked by anyone who saw him. If he was a regular grunt, then people would just feel kind of sorry for him and leave him be.
> >
> > There is no mercy when they inevitably make the specific grunt punt assassination.
>
> Could you imagine a Gravity hammer assassination where you swing it like a golf club at the grunt?
>
> No mercy indeed.
They need a gravity hammer/grunt based whackamole mini game.
> > The physical difference outside of Elites being approximately whopping TWO INCHES taller than a Spartan II Canonically (Which would only make them about 6-7 Inches taller than a Spartan IV that’s standing straight up, in a combat stance that difference wouldn’t exist), and the “Player Trait” differences are also non-existant. Spartans are actually FASTER than Elites Canonically, at least Spartan IIs, and IIIs were, I don’t know about Spartan IVs. Though in Reach Elites were faster. And Spartan shielding is Canonically stronger than that of an Elite Minor, and on par with an Elite Major, or Arbiter, with Ultras and Zealots/Generals being the only military grade Elites with shielding stronger than a Spartan’s. Another thing to note, is that in Reach Elites were portrayed much LARGER than they Canonically are. Being nearly 8’ tall in Reach as opposed to the 7’4" which is their actual average. (For those wondering, the average Spartan II is 7’2", and the average Spartan IV is 6’9". Not really that big a difference Especially nearly unnoticeable between IIs and Elites if the Elite stood straight and tall, which it likely wouldn’t in combat anyway.
> >
> > An Elite and a Spartan are physically roughly on-par, in size, speed, defenses, and strength.
> >
> > If they just met in the middle, so the Spartan IVs and Elites were both, say, 7" on the nose, what would be the problem? Some Spartans are OBVIOUSLY taller than others, same goes for some Elites obviously being shorter. If those are the averages, meeting in the middle is perfectly realistic.
> >
> > The sheer fact of seeing your Elite hands instead of Spartan hands, and having a completely Covie-themed HUD should be more than enough difference to give the feel of being an Elite. Especially if their hands have unique animations for Melee attacks, reloads, and the like, that would be awesome. And if they made different pain sounds and such. It’d be cool if when an Elite draws a Sword, for instance, they had several Animations like they did in Halo 2, though they would show in first person too. And if the Elite let out a small roar when he drew it (though, no louder or audible from longer distances than the Sword actually activating).
> >
> > They could even go an extra mile and have the entire UI in the menus adjust to show that you are an Elite. For instance, your Ranks could be changed to be Covenant themed ranks, your UI would all be Purple instead of Blue (same with your HUD), and of course the player card would show an Elite, which should have it’s own stances suited to it as a Player Model, showing Covie Weapons instead of Magnums and ARs.
>
> We play as SIVs who stand approximately 6’9". Sangheili stand at 7’4"-8’6" (That means 7’11" on average, over a foot taller than a SIV or Master Chief).
>
> My sources of height averages are below:
> Sarah Palmer
> Paul DeMarco
> Madsen
> John-117
> Sangheili
>
> I can see your reasoning that augmentations made SIVs faster which makes sense, but that speed was put into moving their own bodies bearing that heavy armor. But thankfully now with GEN2, the armor is lighter so I can actually see SIVs and elites running at the same speed. Jump height, however, I still believe that elites would prevail as they have double jointed legs which gives them more spring and SIVs don’t have the strong enough boost given to them by their armor due to it sacrificing hardware for lightweight armor.
>
> I know that the SIII player was 6’9" in Reach due to the player being based off of Noble Six, but as for the elites… I think they were 8’ or above, so they were a bit extra tall in Reach.
>
> The average SII is 6’10" out of armor and the average SIV is 6’9" out of armor 
So actually Sarah Palmer is almost as tall as Chief which means that ending cutscene in Halo 4 kinda messed up heights.
>
> As for all your other points and idea, quite lovely, dare-I-say :).
>
> Idea of my own:
> -Make it optional, if you play as an elite, to have your HUD in Sangheili. So all the numbers and words would be Sangheili characters and maybe even give a double sangheili translator for cutscene subtitles so three rows of text would appear. The top in a human language, the middle in human characters pronouncing Sangheili words, and the bottom row in Sangheili using Sangheili characters.
> -Add a Covenant numeral indicator to some Covey weapons like how the AR, BR, and DMR have ammo counts on little screens.
> -Elite Ops
The reason that Halo Nation offers two averages is because of Halo Reach/Wars.
In Halo 1, 2, and 3, Elites stood at an average height of 7’4" and this was defined in all of the books as well.
In Halo Wars, Ripa 'Moramee was described as being “Unusually Tall” for a Sangheili at a whopping 8’6" standing “Roughly a foot taller than most” (Again implying that the average height of an Elite was roughtly 7’6" and that Ripa was basically a freak of nature. (directly matching the 7’4" average set up by the original trilogy).
Just visiting either a Halo Nation, or Halopedia page doesn’t really give accurate information all the time. The two numbers the first represents the average height as told to us by Halo 1-3, the second is the height of Ripa 'Moramee, so while SEVERAL Elites stand about 7’4"-7’6" tall, Ripa was a single Elite standing what was described as a “Freakish” 8’6". That number is more a “maximum height” than an average.
Then all of a sudden in Halo Reach, all the Elites in the game were gigantic. Easily hitting 8’ tall, if not taller. Why? Because “We wanted to make the Covenant scary in the Campaign.” Not because that’s what Elites are meant to look like, they are meant to look like they did in Halo CE.
In Halo Reach, Elites were actually much TALLER than they are meant to be. And hud much larger heads than they should to. In fact, they were basically just wrong in all proportional ways.
Here are the heights of Elites in Halo CE:
Exhibit A: May be small, but we see that the Elite stands only marginally taller than the player.
+Zealot.jpg){kind=link}
Exhibit B:Due to the animation he is in, this Zealot actually appears SHORTER than Master Cheif.
> > > The physical difference outside of Elites being approximately whopping TWO INCHES taller than a Spartan II Canonically (Which would only make them about 6-7 Inches taller than a Spartan IV that’s standing straight up, in a combat stance that difference wouldn’t exist), and the “Player Trait” differences are also non-existant. Spartans are actually FASTER than Elites Canonically, at least Spartan IIs, and IIIs were, I don’t know about Spartan IVs. Though in Reach Elites were faster. And Spartan shielding is Canonically stronger than that of an Elite Minor, and on par with an Elite Major, or Arbiter, with Ultras and Zealots/Generals being the only military grade Elites with shielding stronger than a Spartan’s. Another thing to note, is that in Reach Elites were portrayed much LARGER than they Canonically are. Being nearly 8’ tall in Reach as opposed to the 7’4" which is their actual average. (For those wondering, the average Spartan II is 7’2", and the average Spartan IV is 6’9". Not really that big a difference Especially nearly unnoticeable between IIs and Elites if the Elite stood straight and tall, which it likely wouldn’t in combat anyway.
> > >
> > > An Elite and a Spartan are physically roughly on-par, in size, speed, defenses, and strength.
> > >
> > > If they just met in the middle, so the Spartan IVs and Elites were both, say, 7" on the nose, what would be the problem? Some Spartans are OBVIOUSLY taller than others, same goes for some Elites obviously being shorter. If those are the averages, meeting in the middle is perfectly realistic.
> > >
> > > The sheer fact of seeing your Elite hands instead of Spartan hands, and having a completely Covie-themed HUD should be more than enough difference to give the feel of being an Elite. Especially if their hands have unique animations for Melee attacks, reloads, and the like, that would be awesome. And if they made different pain sounds and such. It’d be cool if when an Elite draws a Sword, for instance, they had several Animations like they did in Halo 2, though they would show in first person too. And if the Elite let out a small roar when he drew it (though, no louder or audible from longer distances than the Sword actually activating).
> > >
> > > They could even go an extra mile and have the entire UI in the menus adjust to show that you are an Elite. For instance, your Ranks could be changed to be Covenant themed ranks, your UI would all be Purple instead of Blue (same with your HUD), and of course the player card would show an Elite, which should have it’s own stances suited to it as a Player Model, showing Covie Weapons instead of Magnums and ARs.
> >
> > We play as SIVs who stand approximately 6’9". Sangheili stand at 7’4"-8’6" (That means 7’11" on average, over a foot taller than a SIV or Master Chief).
> >
> > My sources of height averages are below:
> > Sarah Palmer
> > Paul DeMarco
> > Madsen
> > John-117
> > Sangheili
> >
> > I can see your reasoning that augmentations made SIVs faster which makes sense, but that speed was put into moving their own bodies bearing that heavy armor. But thankfully now with GEN2, the armor is lighter so I can actually see SIVs and elites running at the same speed. Jump height, however, I still believe that elites would prevail as they have double jointed legs which gives them more spring and SIVs don’t have the strong enough boost given to them by their armor due to it sacrificing hardware for lightweight armor.
> >
> > I know that the SIII player was 6’9" in Reach due to the player being based off of Noble Six, but as for the elites… I think they were 8’ or above, so they were a bit extra tall in Reach.
> >
> > The average SII is 6’10" out of armor and the average SIV is 6’9" out of armor So actually Sarah Palmer is almost as tall as Chief which means that ending cutscene in Halo 4 kinda messed up heights.
> >
> > As for all your other points and idea, quite lovely, dare-I-say :).
> >
> > Idea of my own:
> > -Make it optional, if you play as an elite, to have your HUD in Sangheili. So all the numbers and words would be Sangheili characters and maybe even give a double sangheili translator for cutscene subtitles so three rows of text would appear. The top in a human language, the middle in human characters pronouncing Sangheili words, and the bottom row in Sangheili using Sangheili characters.
> > -Add a Covenant numeral indicator to some Covey weapons like how the AR, BR, and DMR have ammo counts on little screens.
> > -Elite Ops
>
> The reason that Halo Nation offers two averages is because of Halo Reach.
>
> In Halo 1, 2, and 3, Elites stood at an average height of 7’4" and this was defined in all of the books as well.
>
> In Halo Wars, Ripa ‘Moramee was described as being “Unusually Tall” for a Sangheili at a whopping 8’6" standing “Roughly a foot taller than most” (Again implying that the average height of an Elite was roughtly 7’6" and that Ripa was basically a freak of nature. (directly matching the 7’4" average set up by the original trilogy).
>
> Then all of a sudden in Halo Reach, all the Elites in the game were gigantic. Easily hitting 8’ tall, if not taller. Why? Because “We wanted to make the Covenant scary in the Campaign.”
>
> In Halo Reach, Elites were actually much TALLER than they are meant to be. And hud much larger heads than they should to. In fact, they were basically just wrong in all proportional ways.
But still, even then an elite still stands taller than the average SIV by seven inches.
> > > > The physical difference outside of Elites being approximately whopping TWO INCHES taller than a Spartan II Canonically (Which would only make them about 6-7 Inches taller than a Spartan IV that’s standing straight up, in a combat stance that difference wouldn’t exist), and the “Player Trait” differences are also non-existant. Spartans are actually FASTER than Elites Canonically, at least Spartan IIs, and IIIs were, I don’t know about Spartan IVs. Though in Reach Elites were faster. And Spartan shielding is Canonically stronger than that of an Elite Minor, and on par with an Elite Major, or Arbiter, with Ultras and Zealots/Generals being the only military grade Elites with shielding stronger than a Spartan’s. Another thing to note, is that in Reach Elites were portrayed much LARGER than they Canonically are. Being nearly 8’ tall in Reach as opposed to the 7’4" which is their actual average. (For those wondering, the average Spartan II is 7’2", and the average Spartan IV is 6’9". Not really that big a difference Especially nearly unnoticeable between IIs and Elites if the Elite stood straight and tall, which it likely wouldn’t in combat anyway.
> > > >
> > > > An Elite and a Spartan are physically roughly on-par, in size, speed, defenses, and strength.
> > > >
> > > > If they just met in the middle, so the Spartan IVs and Elites were both, say, 7" on the nose, what would be the problem? Some Spartans are OBVIOUSLY taller than others, same goes for some Elites obviously being shorter. If those are the averages, meeting in the middle is perfectly realistic.
> > > >
> > > > The sheer fact of seeing your Elite hands instead of Spartan hands, and having a completely Covie-themed HUD should be more than enough difference to give the feel of being an Elite. Especially if their hands have unique animations for Melee attacks, reloads, and the like, that would be awesome. And if they made different pain sounds and such. It’d be cool if when an Elite draws a Sword, for instance, they had several Animations like they did in Halo 2, though they would show in first person too. And if the Elite let out a small roar when he drew it (though, no louder or audible from longer distances than the Sword actually activating).
> > > >
> > > > They could even go an extra mile and have the entire UI in the menus adjust to show that you are an Elite. For instance, your Ranks could be changed to be Covenant themed ranks, your UI would all be Purple instead of Blue (same with your HUD), and of course the player card would show an Elite, which should have it’s own stances suited to it as a Player Model, showing Covie Weapons instead of Magnums and ARs.
> > >
> > > We play as SIVs who stand approximately 6’9". Sangheili stand at 7’4"-8’6" (That means 7’11" on average, over a foot taller than a SIV or Master Chief).
> > >
> > > My sources of height averages are below:
> > > Sarah Palmer
> > > Paul DeMarco
> > > Madsen
> > > John-117
> > > Sangheili
> > >
> > > I can see your reasoning that augmentations made SIVs faster which makes sense, but that speed was put into moving their own bodies bearing that heavy armor. But thankfully now with GEN2, the armor is lighter so I can actually see SIVs and elites running at the same speed. Jump height, however, I still believe that elites would prevail as they have double jointed legs which gives them more spring and SIVs don’t have the strong enough boost given to them by their armor due to it sacrificing hardware for lightweight armor.
> > >
> > > I know that the SIII player was 6’9" in Reach due to the player being based off of Noble Six, but as for the elites… I think they were 8’ or above, so they were a bit extra tall in Reach.
> > >
> > > The average SII is 6’10" out of armor and the average SIV is 6’9" out of armor So actually Sarah Palmer is almost as tall as Chief which means that ending cutscene in Halo 4 kinda messed up heights.
> > >
> > > As for all your other points and idea, quite lovely, dare-I-say :).
> > >
> > > Idea of my own:
> > > -Make it optional, if you play as an elite, to have your HUD in Sangheili. So all the numbers and words would be Sangheili characters and maybe even give a double sangheili translator for cutscene subtitles so three rows of text would appear. The top in a human language, the middle in human characters pronouncing Sangheili words, and the bottom row in Sangheili using Sangheili characters.
> > > -Add a Covenant numeral indicator to some Covey weapons like how the AR, BR, and DMR have ammo counts on little screens.
> > > -Elite Ops
> >
> > The reason that Halo Nation offers two averages is because of Halo Reach.
> >
> > In Halo 1, 2, and 3, Elites stood at an average height of 7’4" and this was defined in all of the books as well.
> >
> > In Halo Wars, Ripa ‘Moramee was described as being “Unusually Tall” for a Sangheili at a whopping 8’6" standing “Roughly a foot taller than most” (Again implying that the average height of an Elite was roughtly 7’6" and that Ripa was basically a freak of nature. (directly matching the 7’4" average set up by the original trilogy).
> >
> > Then all of a sudden in Halo Reach, all the Elites in the game were gigantic. Easily hitting 8’ tall, if not taller. Why? Because “We wanted to make the Covenant scary in the Campaign.”
> >
> > In Halo Reach, Elites were actually much TALLER than they are meant to be. And hud much larger heads than they should to. In fact, they were basically just wrong in all proportional ways.
>
> But still, even then an elite still stands taller than the average SIV by seven inches.
Yeah, and that’s maybe what, half a head tops? They don’t need to be exactly the same height, just close enough that it will never make any difference. 343i could easily get away with bumping up the model used for the player’s Spartan IV to 7"2’ tall, just by keeping Master Chief’s framework from Campaign, and then having Elites stand around 7’4" like Halo CE.
> > > > > The physical difference outside of Elites being approximately whopping TWO INCHES taller than a Spartan II Canonically (Which would only make them about 6-7 Inches taller than a Spartan IV that’s standing straight up, in a combat stance that difference wouldn’t exist), and the “Player Trait” differences are also non-existant. Spartans are actually FASTER than Elites Canonically, at least Spartan IIs, and IIIs were, I don’t know about Spartan IVs. Though in Reach Elites were faster. And Spartan shielding is Canonically stronger than that of an Elite Minor, and on par with an Elite Major, or Arbiter, with Ultras and Zealots/Generals being the only military grade Elites with shielding stronger than a Spartan’s. Another thing to note, is that in Reach Elites were portrayed much LARGER than they Canonically are. Being nearly 8’ tall in Reach as opposed to the 7’4" which is their actual average. (For those wondering, the average Spartan II is 7’2", and the average Spartan IV is 6’9". Not really that big a difference Especially nearly unnoticeable between IIs and Elites if the Elite stood straight and tall, which it likely wouldn’t in combat anyway.
> > > > >
> > > > > An Elite and a Spartan are physically roughly on-par, in size, speed, defenses, and strength.
> > > > >
> > > > > If they just met in the middle, so the Spartan IVs and Elites were both, say, 7" on the nose, what would be the problem? Some Spartans are OBVIOUSLY taller than others, same goes for some Elites obviously being shorter. If those are the averages, meeting in the middle is perfectly realistic.
> > > > >
> > > > > The sheer fact of seeing your Elite hands instead of Spartan hands, and having a completely Covie-themed HUD should be more than enough difference to give the feel of being an Elite. Especially if their hands have unique animations for Melee attacks, reloads, and the like, that would be awesome. And if they made different pain sounds and such. It’d be cool if when an Elite draws a Sword, for instance, they had several Animations like they did in Halo 2, though they would show in first person too. And if the Elite let out a small roar when he drew it (though, no louder or audible from longer distances than the Sword actually activating).
> > > > >
> > > > > They could even go an extra mile and have the entire UI in the menus adjust to show that you are an Elite. For instance, your Ranks could be changed to be Covenant themed ranks, your UI would all be Purple instead of Blue (same with your HUD), and of course the player card would show an Elite, which should have it’s own stances suited to it as a Player Model, showing Covie Weapons instead of Magnums and ARs.
> > > >
> > > > We play as SIVs who stand approximately 6’9". Sangheili stand at 7’4"-8’6" (That means 7’11" on average, over a foot taller than a SIV or Master Chief).
> > > >
> > > > My sources of height averages are below:
> > > > Sarah Palmer
> > > > Paul DeMarco
> > > > Madsen
> > > > John-117
> > > > Sangheili
> > > >
> > > > I can see your reasoning that augmentations made SIVs faster which makes sense, but that speed was put into moving their own bodies bearing that heavy armor. But thankfully now with GEN2, the armor is lighter so I can actually see SIVs and elites running at the same speed. Jump height, however, I still believe that elites would prevail as they have double jointed legs which gives them more spring and SIVs don’t have the strong enough boost given to them by their armor due to it sacrificing hardware for lightweight armor.
> > > >
> > > > I know that the SIII player was 6’9" in Reach due to the player being based off of Noble Six, but as for the elites… I think they were 8’ or above, so they were a bit extra tall in Reach.
> > > >
> > > > The average SII is 6’10" out of armor and the average SIV is 6’9" out of armor So actually Sarah Palmer is almost as tall as Chief which means that ending cutscene in Halo 4 kinda messed up heights.
> > > >
> > > > As for all your other points and idea, quite lovely, dare-I-say :).
> > > >
> > > > Idea of my own:
> > > > -Make it optional, if you play as an elite, to have your HUD in Sangheili. So all the numbers and words would be Sangheili characters and maybe even give a double sangheili translator for cutscene subtitles so three rows of text would appear. The top in a human language, the middle in human characters pronouncing Sangheili words, and the bottom row in Sangheili using Sangheili characters.
> > > > -Add a Covenant numeral indicator to some Covey weapons like how the AR, BR, and DMR have ammo counts on little screens.
> > > > -Elite Ops
> > >
> > > The reason that Halo Nation offers two averages is because of Halo Reach.
> > >
> > > In Halo 1, 2, and 3, Elites stood at an average height of 7’4" and this was defined in all of the books as well.
> > >
> > > In Halo Wars, Ripa ‘Moramee was described as being “Unusually Tall” for a Sangheili at a whopping 8’6" standing “Roughly a foot taller than most” (Again implying that the average height of an Elite was roughtly 7’6" and that Ripa was basically a freak of nature. (directly matching the 7’4" average set up by the original trilogy).
> > >
> > > Then all of a sudden in Halo Reach, all the Elites in the game were gigantic. Easily hitting 8’ tall, if not taller. Why? Because “We wanted to make the Covenant scary in the Campaign.”
> > >
> > > In Halo Reach, Elites were actually much TALLER than they are meant to be. And hud much larger heads than they should to. In fact, they were basically just wrong in all proportional ways.
> >
> > But still, even then an elite still stands taller than the average SIV by seven inches.
>
> Yeah, and that’s maybe what, half a head tops? They don’t need to be exactly the same height, just close enough that it will never make any difference. 343i could easily get away with bumping up the model used for the player’s Spartan IV to 7"2’ tall, just by keeping Master Chief’s framework from Campaign, and then having Elites stand around 7’4" like Halo CE.
Why no just hunch elites for arena styled gameplay and have them stand normally for class styled gameplay?
Because people are likely going to complain again like the other hunched over Elites like in Halo 3. couldn’t shoot them in the back of the head or anything 
> Because people are likely going to complain again like the other hunched over Elites like in Halo 3. couldn’t shoot them in the back of the head or anything
Halo 3’s Elites used the exact same hit-boxes as the Spartan-II model…
> > Because people are likely going to complain again like the other hunched over Elites like in Halo 3. couldn’t shoot them in the back of the head or anything
>
> Halo 3’s Elites used the exact same hit-boxes as the Spartan-II model…
This is a scientific diagram created after many simulations.
> > > i’d rather play as a grunt
> >
> > well you’d get killed a few times
>
> You sure it would be just a few?
That man will be the epic grunt of Halo, and his name shall be Flipyap!