Sangheili (Elites) In New Trilogy Matchmaking (Part 1)

Games Halo 5: Guardians
7502

> > > > > > * Remove “canon” from multiplayer, honestly it just complicates everything I just want to have fun
> > > > > > * Return the spartan II models for multiplayer instead of the IV’s
> > > > > > * Spartan II’s were almost equal height with the elites in CE, return elites to their CE models, they weren’t as hunched over as the other games so the hit boxes can be adjusted easier to make them equal.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Problem solved.
> > > > >
> > > > > Incorrect actually. You do realize that with these terms you kick everyone who like multiplayer being involved with canon and like a difference between spartan and elite in the face, right?
> > > > >
> > > > > The only thing we can really do is just hope elites return to multiplayer. Details are really out of our control from there for the most part.
> > > >
> > > > I would like a canon explanation for Killballs, giant dice, giant soccer balls, and the 7-Wood. Oh right, that can’t be done.
> > > >
> > > > The only differences there used to be with Spartans and Elites before were a small difference in height(not noticeable because Elites never stood straight up when you were fighting them) and that the Elites are well, aliens that look different. Same strength, speed, jump height, health, etc.
> > >
> > > Those objects you mentioned, are all in customs. We don’t know if customs are canon and even then, I think some objects are there for practical/creative/humorous use.
> > >
> > > I don’t see the relevancy of your point explaining Halo 2-3 elites to quoting my above post. In case you missed Reach, there was a difference between spartan and elite.
> >
> > It’s a simple cold truth:
> >
> > If Elites are DIFFERENT from Spartans, they will never be available in Matchmaking.
> >
> >
> > The only way to make it so that we can choose to be an Elite at will, is to have them with the same size and traits as Spartans.
> >
> > Suck it up everyone who wants them different because unfortunately, if you get your way, we will NEVER have Elites in BTB again.
>
> I’m confused by this reasoning. You say elites will never be in matchmaking if they’re different, yet they are included, but limited, in Reach. What is your proof that your reasoning is fact? Unless you happen to be part of 343i (which I doubt) then that is just your assumption and opinion.

Because the competitive community will cause a -Yoink!- over the fact that elites are different than Spartans.

They tore them apart in Halo 3 and complained very bitterly about it all, despite there being no height or trait difference between the two, just a slightly different hitbox.

And in all honesty: “I’d really rather not piss this thing off.”

7503

> > > > > > > * Remove “canon” from multiplayer, honestly it just complicates everything I just want to have fun
> > > > > > > * Return the spartan II models for multiplayer instead of the IV’s
> > > > > > > * Spartan II’s were almost equal height with the elites in CE, return elites to their CE models, they weren’t as hunched over as the other games so the hit boxes can be adjusted easier to make them equal.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Problem solved.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Incorrect actually. You do realize that with these terms you kick everyone who like multiplayer being involved with canon and like a difference between spartan and elite in the face, right?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The only thing we can really do is just hope elites return to multiplayer. Details are really out of our control from there for the most part.
> > > > >
> > > > > I would like a canon explanation for Killballs, giant dice, giant soccer balls, and the 7-Wood. Oh right, that can’t be done.
> > > > >
> > > > > The only differences there used to be with Spartans and Elites before were a small difference in height(not noticeable because Elites never stood straight up when you were fighting them) and that the Elites are well, aliens that look different. Same strength, speed, jump height, health, etc.
> > > >
> > > > Those objects you mentioned, are all in customs. We don’t know if customs are canon and even then, I think some objects are there for practical/creative/humorous use.
> > > >
> > > > I don’t see the relevancy of your point explaining Halo 2-3 elites to quoting my above post. In case you missed Reach, there was a difference between spartan and elite.
> > >
> > > It’s a simple cold truth:
> > >
> > > If Elites are DIFFERENT from Spartans, they will never be available in Matchmaking.
> > >
> > >
> > > The only way to make it so that we can choose to be an Elite at will, is to have them with the same size and traits as Spartans.
> > >
> > > Suck it up everyone who wants them different because unfortunately, if you get your way, we will NEVER have Elites in BTB again.
> >
> > I’m confused by this reasoning. You say elites will never be in matchmaking if they’re different, yet they are included, but limited, in Reach. What is your proof that your reasoning is fact? Unless you happen to be part of 343i (which I doubt) then that is just your assumption and opinion.
>
> Because the competitive community will cause a -Yoink!- over the fact that elites are different than Spartans.
>
> They tore them apart in Halo 3 and complained very bitterly about it all, despite there being no height or trait difference between the two, just a slightly different hitbox.
>
> And in all honesty: “I’d really rather not piss this thing off.”

And what about the people who prefer canon affecting gameplay/liked playing as Reach elites/etc? Look, I understand your argument and I hope you understand mine, but as we can all see, it’s a community divided argument that 343i will have to make the final decision to implement. I don’t think there’s much more use in arguing over facts we know to be true.

> Whose side are you on about all of this then? Those who want the equality of being able to play with every spartans, or those who want to be the Sangheili’s “glory height” they want to be? Because your not helping the situation.

I want them to have their Reach traits minus the recharging health. I’ve clearly stated that in past posts. How am I not helping the situation when I’m pointing out you are making an unbacked assumption?

7504

> > Because the competitive community will cause a -Yoink!- over the fact that elites are different than Spartans.
> >
> > They tore them apart in Halo 3 and complained very bitterly about it all, despite there being no height or trait difference between the two, just a slightly different hitbox.
> >
> > And in all honesty: “I’d really rather not piss this thing off.”
>
> And what about the people who prefer canon affecting gameplay/liked playing as Reach elites/etc? Look, I understand your argument and I hope you understand mine, but as we can all see, it’s a community divided argument that 343i will have to make the final decision to implement. I don’t think there’s much more use in arguing over facts we know to be true.

Canon should not be affecting gameplay, because if it did we’d end up with plasma weapons burning through everything, hitscan near-instakill Forerunner weapons, multiple firing modes for every human rifle, and countless more ridiculous things. The Halo universe canon should never interfere with the game’s Multiplayer for the sake that the game remains fun, competitive, and playable for everyone.

We don’t need to be reverting to the issue from Reach where what used to be, and should’ve been a cosmetic choice was turned into a gameplay-changing element. It works as poorly as the idea that each armor should perform better at doing something than others, like EOD protecting you from explosives. Not only does the idea harm Halo’s arena shooter style, which is central to its identity, but it also harms those that wish to use those cosmetic choices purely for how they look.

You are literally impeding and harming others by adding game changing attributes to something that’s a cosmetic choice.

7505

> > > Because the competitive community will cause a -Yoink!- over the fact that elites are different than Spartans.
> > >
> > > They tore them apart in Halo 3 and complained very bitterly about it all, despite there being no height or trait difference between the two, just a slightly different hitbox.
> > >
> > > And in all honesty: “I’d really rather not piss this thing off.”
> >
> > And what about the people who prefer canon affecting gameplay/liked playing as Reach elites/etc? Look, I understand your argument and I hope you understand mine, but as we can all see, it’s a community divided argument that 343i will have to make the final decision to implement. I don’t think there’s much more use in arguing over facts we know to be true.
>
> Canon should not be affecting gameplay, because if it did we’d end up with plasma weapons burning through everything, hitscan near-instakill Forerunner weapons, multiple firing modes for every human rifle, and countless more ridiculous things. The Halo universe canon should never interfere with the game’s Multiplayer for the sake that the game remains fun, competitive, and playable for everyone.
>
> We don’t need to be reverting to the issue from Reach where what used to be, and should’ve been a cosmetic choice was turned into a gameplay-changing element. It works as poorly as the idea that each armor should perform better at doing something than others, like EOD protecting you from explosives. Not only does the idea harm Halo’s arena shooter style, which is central to its identity, but it also harms those that wish to use those cosmetic choices purely for how they look.
>
> You are literally impeding and harming others by adding game changing attributes to something that’s a cosmetic choice.

You also realize if canon affected gameplay, most plasma weapons would have to have the user keep the gun pointed at the target so the magnetic field keeps the plasma round condensed otherwise it would just dissipate, right? This would bring more skill to plasma weapon usage except for the beam rifle because users couldn’t change direction without their shots dissipating.

When you say multiple firing modes, do you mean an option to burst fire or single shot and AR? If so, why would the user even want such functions when they could just manipulate how long they hold the trigger?

It’s ridiculous SIVs are being allowed to use forerunner weaponry in War Games and in legitimate missions in the first place and that IS canon. Those weapons would best be under study by Infinity scientists or just used against prometheans in the field when a spartan picks up a fallen one’s weapon.

Also with that whole schpeel about armor differentiating in abilities and affecting Halo’s core arena gameplay, MJOLNIR armor isn’t designed for a purpose, it’s designed to give the user a little bonus to their field of work. You say EOD protects you from explosives, well actually it only prevents the user from losing limbs or being decapitated if an explosion were to go off, not how much the explosion penetrates the armor. So even if that kind of detailed canon were to be implemented into multiplayer, a guy wearing EOD would die just as easily from explosives as a guy wearing Recon. Besides, what about people mixing armor variants? Spartans can do it in canon. Why bother having those little bonuses exist if they won’t be as effective if the whole armor isn’t together? You see, there are some things people who would like canon to be in multiplayer more, like me, view as unnecessary canon to be added. We don’t necessarily want every tid bit to be in there.

Look, I’m just going to be flat out honest and say I’d rather the majority of canon affect multiplayer. I’d rather trade pretty weapons that glow for a human weapon that can to do as much damage in real life as a current Light Rifle. But that’s an argument for another thread. Besides, I’m not butt-hurt either way if canon affects multiplayer or not like how I’m not butt-hurt if elites are leveled out to play the same as spartans. Would I rather canon be implemented? Yes. But am I going to flip a table if it isn’t? No. I just voice what I’d rather have, not say “it has to be this way or this will happen” as you do.

But on topic. You say: “You are literally impeding and <mark>harming</mark> others by adding game changing attributes to something that’s a cosmetic choice.”

My gut tells me that was an accidental misuse of the word, but if not… Really? “Harming”? Right, some person is going to get sick or injured from elites having slight gameplay and cosmetic (in terms of height) differences from spartans. So according to your logic, what happens to the people who want the differences, but won’t get them? Will I have internal bleeding? Will I be mentally scarred? Let’s be real here.

But basically to sum up what my points are, I’d rather have elites with Reach-like traits in multiplayer, I’d rather have canon (but not all) in multiplayer, but I am not really going to complain if that never happens as much as I’d like it to. It’s just a video game. All that matters to me on this topic is that elites are included in multiplayer completely. How they are to play is up to the developers.

7506

The physical differences the elites and spartans have would seem to be problematic for arena based game play…

But hey, while we’re at it let’s add in a jackal sniper class that can scale trees and towers assasin’s creed/prince of persia style. Then we can have hunter tank class and drones for aerial combat.

If you make it a cosmetic choice with no game play impact, then you are fine. If it has any real impact on game play, then it stops being a real choice for many many people.

7507

The physical difference outside of Elites being approximately whopping TWO INCHES taller than a Spartan II Canonically (Which would only make them about 6-7 Inches taller than a Spartan IV that’s standing straight up, in a combat stance that difference wouldn’t exist), and the “Player Trait” differences are also non-existant. Spartans are actually FASTER than Elites Canonically, at least Spartan IIs, and IIIs were, I don’t know about Spartan IVs. Though in Reach Elites were faster. And Spartan shielding is Canonically stronger than that of an Elite Minor, and on par with an Elite Major, or Arbiter, with Ultras and Zealots/Generals being the only military grade Elites with shielding stronger than a Spartan’s. Another thing to note, is that in Reach Elites were portrayed much LARGER than they Canonically are. Being nearly 8’ tall in Reach as opposed to the 7’4" which is their actual average. (For those wondering, the average Spartan II is 7’2", and the average Spartan IV is 6’9". Not really that big a difference Especially nearly unnoticeable between IIs and Elites if the Elite stood straight and tall, which it likely wouldn’t in combat anyway.

An Elite and a Spartan are physically roughly on-par, in size, speed, defenses, and strength.

If they just met in the middle, so the Spartan IVs and Elites were both, say, 7" on the nose, what would be the problem? Some Spartans are OBVIOUSLY taller than others, same goes for some Elites obviously being shorter. If those are the averages, meeting in the middle is perfectly realistic.

The sheer fact of seeing your Elite hands instead of Spartan hands, and having a completely Covie-themed HUD should be more than enough difference to give the feel of being an Elite. Especially if their hands have unique animations for Melee attacks, reloads, and the like, that would be awesome. And if they made different pain sounds and such. It’d be cool if when an Elite draws a Sword, for instance, they had several Animations like they did in Halo 2, though they would show in first person too. And if the Elite let out a small roar when he drew it (though, no louder or audible from longer distances than the Sword actually activating).

They could even go an extra mile and have the entire UI in the menus adjust to show that you are an Elite. For instance, your Ranks could be changed to be Covenant themed ranks, your UI would all be Purple instead of Blue (same with your HUD), and of course the player card would show an Elite, which should have it’s own stances suited to it as a Player Model, showing Covie Weapons instead of Magnums and ARs.

7508

> The physical differences the elites and spartans have would seem to be problematic for arena based game play…
>
> But hey, while we’re at it let’s add in a jackal sniper class that can scale trees and towers assasin’s creed/prince of persia style. Then we can have hunter tank class and drones for aerial combat.
>
> If you make it a cosmetic choice with no game play impact, then you are fine. If it has any real impact on game play, then it stops being a real choice for many many people.

So you are saying it’s okay for elites to be taller or not?

With that whole jackal/hunter thing:

  1. That would be a campaign thing. Jackals and hunters aren’t in multiplayer. There is no canon explaining such types of units existed
  2. Don’t diss people who want canon more involved in multiplayer by exaggerating that kind of stuff. Show some respect, not matter how much you disagree.
  3. Jackals physically are incapable of committing such actions like scaling trees like monkeys. Jackals have double hinged jointed legs, therefore legs developed for trekking the ground, and therefore they physically can’t scale trees easily. The most they can do is possibly climb strait up onto a large branch or platform.
7509

> The physical difference outside of Elites being approximately whopping TWO INCHES taller than a Spartan II Canonically (Which would only make them about 6-7 Inches taller than a Spartan IV that’s standing straight up, in a combat stance that difference wouldn’t exist), and the “Player Trait” differences are also non-existant. Spartans are actually FASTER than Elites Canonically, at least Spartan IIs, and IIIs were, I don’t know about Spartan IVs. Though in Reach Elites were faster. And Spartan shielding is Canonically stronger than that of an Elite Minor, and on par with an Elite Major, or Arbiter, with Ultras and Zealots/Generals being the only military grade Elites with shielding stronger than a Spartan’s. Another thing to note, is that in Reach Elites were portrayed much LARGER than they Canonically are. Being nearly 8’ tall in Reach as opposed to the 7’4" which is their actual average. (For those wondering, the average Spartan II is 7’2", and the average Spartan IV is 6’9". Not really that big a difference Especially nearly unnoticeable between IIs and Elites if the Elite stood straight and tall, which it likely wouldn’t in combat anyway.
>
> An Elite and a Spartan are physically roughly on-par, in size, speed, defenses, and strength.
>
> If they just met in the middle, so the Spartan IVs and Elites were both, say, 7" on the nose, what would be the problem? Some Spartans are OBVIOUSLY taller than others, same goes for some Elites obviously being shorter. If those are the averages, meeting in the middle is perfectly realistic.
>
> The sheer fact of seeing your Elite hands instead of Spartan hands, and having a completely Covie-themed HUD should be more than enough difference to give the feel of being an Elite. Especially if their hands have unique animations for Melee attacks, reloads, and the like, that would be awesome. And if they made different pain sounds and such. It’d be cool if when an Elite draws a Sword, for instance, they had several Animations like they did in Halo 2, though they would show in first person too. And if the Elite let out a small roar when he drew it (though, no louder or audible from longer distances than the Sword actually activating).
>
> They could even go an extra mile and have the entire UI in the menus adjust to show that you are an Elite. For instance, your Ranks could be changed to be Covenant themed ranks, your UI would all be Purple instead of Blue (same with your HUD), and of course the player card would show an Elite, which should have it’s own stances suited to it as a Player Model, showing Covie Weapons instead of Magnums and ARs.

This is a reasonable opinion. In Reach Elites were so much taller because Spartan 3s were shorter than 2s, but I still didn’t have a problem and quite frankly don’t understand the yoink storm. I could live with a couple of inches from the Elites’ previous height but they should never be scaled down to match a spartan 3. In my opinion this would look weird and genuinely would degrade the experience of playing as an Elite but I could live with a couple inches as long as no one gets carried away and makes pygmy Elites.

7510

> The physical difference outside of Elites being approximately whopping TWO INCHES taller than a Spartan II Canonically (Which would only make them about 6-7 Inches taller than a Spartan IV that’s standing straight up, in a combat stance that difference wouldn’t exist), and the “Player Trait” differences are also non-existant. Spartans are actually FASTER than Elites Canonically, at least Spartan IIs, and IIIs were, I don’t know about Spartan IVs. Though in Reach Elites were faster. And Spartan shielding is Canonically stronger than that of an Elite Minor, and on par with an Elite Major, or Arbiter, with Ultras and Zealots/Generals being the only military grade Elites with shielding stronger than a Spartan’s. Another thing to note, is that in Reach Elites were portrayed much LARGER than they Canonically are. Being nearly 8’ tall in Reach as opposed to the 7’4" which is their actual average. (For those wondering, the average Spartan II is 7’2", and the average Spartan IV is 6’9". Not really that big a difference Especially nearly unnoticeable between IIs and Elites if the Elite stood straight and tall, which it likely wouldn’t in combat anyway.
>
> An Elite and a Spartan are physically roughly on-par, in size, speed, defenses, and strength.
>
> If they just met in the middle, so the Spartan IVs and Elites were both, say, 7" on the nose, what would be the problem? Some Spartans are OBVIOUSLY taller than others, same goes for some Elites obviously being shorter. If those are the averages, meeting in the middle is perfectly realistic.
>
> The sheer fact of seeing your Elite hands instead of Spartan hands, and having a completely Covie-themed HUD should be more than enough difference to give the feel of being an Elite. Especially if their hands have unique animations for Melee attacks, reloads, and the like, that would be awesome. And if they made different pain sounds and such. It’d be cool if when an Elite draws a Sword, for instance, they had several Animations like they did in Halo 2, though they would show in first person too. And if the Elite let out a small roar when he drew it (though, no louder or audible from longer distances than the Sword actually activating).
>
> They could even go an extra mile and have the entire UI in the menus adjust to show that you are an Elite. For instance, your Ranks could be changed to be Covenant themed ranks, your UI would all be Purple instead of Blue (same with your HUD), and of course the player card would show an Elite, which should have it’s own stances suited to it as a Player Model, showing Covie Weapons instead of Magnums and ARs.

We play as SIVs who stand approximately 6’9". Sangheili stand at 7’4"-8’6" (That means 7’11" on average, over a foot taller than a SIV or Master Chief).

My sources of height averages are below:
Sarah Palmer
Paul DeMarco
Madsen
John-117
Sangheili

I can see your reasoning that augmentations made SIVs faster which makes sense, but that speed was put into moving their own bodies bearing that heavy armor. But thankfully now with GEN2, the armor is lighter so I can actually see SIVs and elites running at the same speed. Jump height, however, I still believe that elites would prevail as they have double jointed legs which gives them more spring and SIVs don’t have the strong enough boost given to them by their armor due to it sacrificing hardware for lightweight armor.

I know that the SIII player was 6’9" in Reach due to the player being based off of Noble Six, but as for the elites… I think they were 8’ or above, so they were a bit extra tall in Reach.

The average SII is 6’10" out of armor and the average SIV is 6’9" out of armor :stuck_out_tongue: So actually Sarah Palmer is almost as tall as Chief which means that ending cutscene in Halo 4 kinda messed up heights.

As for all your other points and idea, quite lovely, dare-I-say :).

Idea of my own:
-Make it optional, if you play as an elite, to have your HUD in Sangheili. So all the numbers and words would be Sangheili characters and maybe even give a double sangheili translator for cutscene subtitles so three rows of text would appear. The top in a human language, the middle in human characters pronouncing Sangheili words, and the bottom row in Sangheili using Sangheili characters.
-Add a Covenant numeral indicator to some Covey weapons like how the AR, BR, and DMR have ammo counts on little screens.
-Elite Ops

7511

> > The physical differences the elites and spartans have would seem to be problematic for arena based game play…
> >
> > But hey, while we’re at it let’s add in a jackal sniper class that can scale trees and towers assasin’s creed/prince of persia style. Then we can have hunter tank class and drones for aerial combat.
> >
> > If you make it a cosmetic choice with no game play impact, then you are fine. If it has any real impact on game play, then it stops being a real choice for many many people.
>
> So you are saying it’s okay for elites to be taller or not?
>
> With that whole jackal/hunter thing:
> 1. That would be a campaign thing. Jackals and hunters aren’t in multiplayer. There is no canon explaining such types of units existed
> 2. Don’t diss people who want canon more involved in multiplayer by exaggerating that kind of stuff. Show some respect, not matter how much you disagree.
> 3. Jackals physically are incapable of committing such actions like scaling trees like monkeys. Jackals have double hinged jointed legs, therefore legs developed for trekking the ground, and therefore they physically can’t scale trees easily. The most they can do is possibly climb strait up onto a large branch or platform.

I’m saying that the second your abandon equality, you are making it a class based game. If you are going to do that, you might as well go all the way. Its fine for a game type like Invasion where the whole point is that you have teams in different roles, but that’s also not a decision the player makes beyond deciding to participate in the play list.

The elites are similar enough in stature to spartans that you might as well just bridge the gap and make them the same size for game play reasons if you are going to insist on having them available for the cosmetic fun factor. i’m all for incorporating story into the multiplayer where it makes sense, but introducing class discrepancy into play lists for the sake of cosmetics and peripheral (in the context of pvp) story elements is a mistake imo.

7512

> > > The physical differences the elites and spartans have would seem to be problematic for arena based game play…
> > >
> > > But hey, while we’re at it let’s add in a jackal sniper class that can scale trees and towers assasin’s creed/prince of persia style. Then we can have hunter tank class and drones for aerial combat.
> > >
> > > If you make it a cosmetic choice with no game play impact, then you are fine. If it has any real impact on game play, then it stops being a real choice for many many people.
> >
> > So you are saying it’s okay for elites to be taller or not?
> >
> > With that whole jackal/hunter thing:
> > 1. That would be a campaign thing. Jackals and hunters aren’t in multiplayer. There is no canon explaining such types of units existed
> > 2. Don’t diss people who want canon more involved in multiplayer by exaggerating that kind of stuff. Show some respect, not matter how much you disagree.
> > 3. Jackals physically are incapable of committing such actions like scaling trees like monkeys. Jackals have double hinged jointed legs, therefore legs developed for trekking the ground, and therefore they physically can’t scale trees easily. The most they can do is possibly climb strait up onto a large branch or platform.
>
> I’m saying that the second your abandon equality, you are making it a class based game. If you are going to do that, you might as well go all the way. Its fine for a game type like Invasion where the whole point is that you have teams in different roles, but that’s also not a decision the player makes beyond deciding to participate in the play list.
>
> The elites are similar enough in stature to spartans that you might as well just bridge the gap and make them the same size for game play reasons if you are going to insist on having them available for the cosmetic fun factor. i’m all for incorporating story into the multiplayer where it makes sense, but introducing class discrepancy into play lists for the sake of cosmetics and peripheral (in the context of pvp) story elements is a mistake imo.

Well as we can see, 343i seems to be expanding Bungie’s moves in Reach from an arena game to a class/arena hybrid. Chances are, and as the community suggested, both types of gameplay will divide multiplayer into two different sections. As for how 343i wants to deal with elite height… that’s a tad tricky and will be up to them to decide.

7513

> > > > The physical differences the elites and spartans have would seem to be problematic for arena based game play…
> > > >
> > > > But hey, while we’re at it let’s add in a jackal sniper class that can scale trees and towers assasin’s creed/prince of persia style. Then we can have hunter tank class and drones for aerial combat.
> > > >
> > > > If you make it a cosmetic choice with no game play impact, then you are fine. If it has any real impact on game play, then it stops being a real choice for many many people.
> > >
> > > So you are saying it’s okay for elites to be taller or not?
> > >
> > > With that whole jackal/hunter thing:
> > > 1. That would be a campaign thing. Jackals and hunters aren’t in multiplayer. There is no canon explaining such types of units existed
> > > 2. Don’t diss people who want canon more involved in multiplayer by exaggerating that kind of stuff. Show some respect, not matter how much you disagree.
> > > 3. Jackals physically are incapable of committing such actions like scaling trees like monkeys. Jackals have double hinged jointed legs, therefore legs developed for trekking the ground, and therefore they physically can’t scale trees easily. The most they can do is possibly climb strait up onto a large branch or platform.
> >
> > I’m saying that the second your abandon equality, you are making it a class based game. If you are going to do that, you might as well go all the way. Its fine for a game type like Invasion where the whole point is that you have teams in different roles, but that’s also not a decision the player makes beyond deciding to participate in the play list.
> >
> > The elites are similar enough in stature to spartans that you might as well just bridge the gap and make them the same size for game play reasons if you are going to insist on having them available for the cosmetic fun factor. i’m all for incorporating story into the multiplayer where it makes sense, but introducing class discrepancy into play lists for the sake of cosmetics and peripheral (in the context of pvp) story elements is a mistake imo.
>
> Well as we can see, 343i seems to be expanding Bungie’s moves in Reach from an arena game to a class/arena hybrid. Chances are, and as the community suggested, both types of gameplay will divide multiplayer into two different sections. As for how 343i wants to deal with elite height… that’s a tad tricky and will be up to them to decide.

Infinity settings were added in for game play reasons, not because they felt they had to in order to mesh with the Halo 4 story and setting. I’m not saying I agree with the decision making. I’m just saying that they didn’t introduce hologram simply because it appeared in a novel or something, so I can at least respect that they had a vision for the game play they wanted to engender(even if I drastically disagree with it).

I was fine with the implementation of Halo 3 elites except for the obvious objective abuse and play lists like SWAT and snipes where head shooting was THE fundamental game play mechanic. But in a basic team slayer game, i had no problem with the halo 3 elite model appearing. I would have an issue with the Reach elites appearing with their different characteristics. Does that go a little further in answering your earlier question?

7514

> > > > > The physical differences the elites and spartans have would seem to be problematic for arena based game play…
> > > > >
> > > > > But hey, while we’re at it let’s add in a jackal sniper class that can scale trees and towers assasin’s creed/prince of persia style. Then we can have hunter tank class and drones for aerial combat.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you make it a cosmetic choice with no game play impact, then you are fine. If it has any real impact on game play, then it stops being a real choice for many many people.
> > > >
> > > > So you are saying it’s okay for elites to be taller or not?
> > > >
> > > > With that whole jackal/hunter thing:
> > > > 1. That would be a campaign thing. Jackals and hunters aren’t in multiplayer. There is no canon explaining such types of units existed
> > > > 2. Don’t diss people who want canon more involved in multiplayer by exaggerating that kind of stuff. Show some respect, not matter how much you disagree.
> > > > 3. Jackals physically are incapable of committing such actions like scaling trees like monkeys. Jackals have double hinged jointed legs, therefore legs developed for trekking the ground, and therefore they physically can’t scale trees easily. The most they can do is possibly climb strait up onto a large branch or platform.
> > >
> > > I’m saying that the second your abandon equality, you are making it a class based game. If you are going to do that, you might as well go all the way. Its fine for a game type like Invasion where the whole point is that you have teams in different roles, but that’s also not a decision the player makes beyond deciding to participate in the play list.
> > >
> > > The elites are similar enough in stature to spartans that you might as well just bridge the gap and make them the same size for game play reasons if you are going to insist on having them available for the cosmetic fun factor. i’m all for incorporating story into the multiplayer where it makes sense, but introducing class discrepancy into play lists for the sake of cosmetics and peripheral (in the context of pvp) story elements is a mistake imo.
> >
> > Well as we can see, 343i seems to be expanding Bungie’s moves in Reach from an arena game to a class/arena hybrid. Chances are, and as the community suggested, both types of gameplay will divide multiplayer into two different sections. As for how 343i wants to deal with elite height… that’s a tad tricky and will be up to them to decide.
>
> Infinity settings were added in for game play reasons, not because they felt they had to in order to mesh with the Halo 4 story and setting. I’m not saying I agree with the decision making. I’m just saying that they didn’t introduce hologram simply because it appeared in a novel or something, so I can at least respect that they had a vision for the game play they wanted to engender(even if I drastically disagree with it).
>
> I was fine with the implementation of Halo 3 elites except for the obvious objective abuse and play lists like SWAT and snipes where head shooting was THE fundamental game play mechanic. But in a basic team slayer game, i had no problem with the halo 3 elite model appearing. I would have an issue with the Reach elites appearing with their different characteristics. Does that go a little further in answering your earlier question?

Sorry for not making myself clear, I didn’t mean the more class based multiplayer of Halo 4 was based off of canon, I meant it was an idea 343i evolved off of Bungie and plans to have coexist with arena multiplayer.

As for the elites, yes it does. At this point, I feel that a height difference and a jump height difference are all that are really needed to keep elites close to canon in multiplayer (which I and many others prefer). But that slightly defies arena gameplay as you said, so the large pro-arena crowd could get a bit angered by elites being slightly different.

7515

I want to have elites. The guy with the opening post got over 800 likes, that ridicules

7516

> I didn’t mean the more class based multiplayer of Halo 4 was based off of canon, I meant it was an idea 343i evolved off of Bungie and plans to have coexist with arena multiplayer.

I know you didn’t mean that. I was just making sure to clearly outline the distinction in motivation that I was trying to make.

I hope you are right about them wanting to allow the arena settings to coexist in Halo 5, because Bungie contorted it in Halo Reach (which I figured was them making a different experience for a spin off from the main series) and 343 outright abandoned it in Halo 4. Launch day when I fired up multiplayer I triple and quadruple checked to try and figure out where they hid team slayer and other traditional play lists. Then I figured they were just showcasing their new game types and redesigns for the first week or so… it was close to a month later when I realized there wasn’t any intention of bringing in the traditional game play.

7517

> This is a reasonable opinion. In Reach Elites were so much taller because Spartan 3s were shorter than 2s, but I still didn’t have a problem and quite frankly don’t understand the yoink storm. I could live with a couple of inches from the Elites’ previous height but they should never be scaled down to match a spartan 3. In my opinion this would look weird and genuinely would degrade the experience of playing as an Elite but I could live with a couple inches as long as no one gets carried away and makes pygmy Elites.

As far as heights go, I’d say had most of the IIIs been allowed to grow up and not died in suicide missions in their teens, they’d probably be around the same in terms of height to an average S-II. Everyone’s height differs after all. Noble Team all hovered around close to 7 feet themselves in their armor, just a feet inches shy of Chief.

7518

> > I didn’t mean the more class based multiplayer of Halo 4 was based off of canon, I meant it was an idea 343i evolved off of Bungie and plans to have coexist with arena multiplayer.
>
> I know you didn’t mean that. I was just making sure to clearly outline the distinction in motivation that I was trying to make.
>
> I hope you are right about them wanting to allow the arena settings to coexist in Halo 5, because Bungie contorted it in Halo Reach (which I figured was them making a different experience for a spin off from the main series) and 343 outright abandoned it in Halo 4. Launch day when I fired up multiplayer I triple and quadruple checked to try and figure out where they hid team slayer and other traditional play lists. Then I figured they were just showcasing their new game types and redesigns for the first week or so… it was close to a month later when I realized there wasn’t any intention of bringing in the traditional game play.

In 343i’s defense, they did create Legendary Slayer and kind of headed back to the direction of arena gameplay with Infinity Slayer Pro, but of course, not enough to please the arena gameplay fans.

7519

> > > I didn’t mean the more class based multiplayer of Halo 4 was based off of canon, I meant it was an idea 343i evolved off of Bungie and plans to have coexist with arena multiplayer.
> >
> > I know you didn’t mean that. I was just making sure to clearly outline the distinction in motivation that I was trying to make.
> >
> > I hope you are right about them wanting to allow the arena settings to coexist in Halo 5, because Bungie contorted it in Halo Reach (which I figured was them making a different experience for a spin off from the main series) and 343 outright abandoned it in Halo 4. Launch day when I fired up multiplayer I triple and quadruple checked to try and figure out where they hid team slayer and other traditional play lists. Then I figured they were just showcasing their new game types and redesigns for the first week or so… it was close to a month later when I realized there wasn’t any intention of bringing in the traditional game play.
>
> In 343i’s defense, they did create Legendary Slayer and kind of headed back to the direction of arena gameplay with Infinity Slayer Pro, but of course, not enough to please the arena gameplay fans.

Well, it goes back to the fact that traditional game play wasn’t appropriately supported from launch. Legendary slayer was seven months after release… seven LOOOONG months.

I am pleased that 343 is showing what looks like a renewed interest in supporting traditional game types going forward. They seemed genuinely excited about legendary slayer even though the end result was less than revolutionary. Hopefully the lukewarm response from the Halo 4 (infinity) player base doesn’t dissuade them from making an effort to cater to what traditional fan base is still lurking in the shadows.

7520

> > The physical difference outside of Elites being approximately whopping TWO INCHES taller than a Spartan II Canonically (Which would only make them about 6-7 Inches taller than a Spartan IV that’s standing straight up, in a combat stance that difference wouldn’t exist), and the “Player Trait” differences are also non-existant. Spartans are actually FASTER than Elites Canonically, at least Spartan IIs, and IIIs were, I don’t know about Spartan IVs. Though in Reach Elites were faster. And Spartan shielding is Canonically stronger than that of an Elite Minor, and on par with an Elite Major, or Arbiter, with Ultras and Zealots/Generals being the only military grade Elites with shielding stronger than a Spartan’s. Another thing to note, is that in Reach Elites were portrayed much LARGER than they Canonically are. Being nearly 8’ tall in Reach as opposed to the 7’4" which is their actual average. (For those wondering, the average Spartan II is 7’2", and the average Spartan IV is 6’9". Not really that big a difference Especially nearly unnoticeable between IIs and Elites if the Elite stood straight and tall, which it likely wouldn’t in combat anyway.
> >
> > An Elite and a Spartan are physically roughly on-par, in size, speed, defenses, and strength.
> >
> > If they just met in the middle, so the Spartan IVs and Elites were both, say, 7" on the nose, what would be the problem? Some Spartans are OBVIOUSLY taller than others, same goes for some Elites obviously being shorter. If those are the averages, meeting in the middle is perfectly realistic.
> >
> > The sheer fact of seeing your Elite hands instead of Spartan hands, and having a completely Covie-themed HUD should be more than enough difference to give the feel of being an Elite. Especially if their hands have unique animations for Melee attacks, reloads, and the like, that would be awesome. And if they made different pain sounds and such. It’d be cool if when an Elite draws a Sword, for instance, they had several Animations like they did in Halo 2, though they would show in first person too. And if the Elite let out a small roar when he drew it (though, no louder or audible from longer distances than the Sword actually activating).
> >
> > They could even go an extra mile and have the entire UI in the menus adjust to show that you are an Elite. For instance, your Ranks could be changed to be Covenant themed ranks, your UI would all be Purple instead of Blue (same with your HUD), and of course the player card would show an Elite, which should have it’s own stances suited to it as a Player Model, showing Covie Weapons instead of Magnums and ARs.
>
> This is a reasonable opinion. In Reach Elites were so much taller because Spartan 3s were shorter than 2s, but I still didn’t have a problem and quite frankly don’t understand the yoink storm. I could live with a couple of inches from the Elites’ previous height but they should never be scaled down to match a spartan 3. In my opinion this would look weird and genuinely would degrade the experience of playing as an Elite but I could live with a couple inches as long as no one gets carried away and makes pygmy Elites.

Yeah,but how cool it’d be if they gave us a customizable battle cry sounds while drawing weapons.And different sounds would be available for a certain amount of credits,like firefight voices,if,hypothetically 343i reintroduces the credit system.Oh yes and specific stances unique to Sangheili,for example a drawn sword and barrel rolling forward with the sword held in front,poised to strike.Oh yes and a feature I’d like to bring up,the availability of mandible guards.In Reach only ranks like Field Marshall had them.Differently styled mandible guards for all ranks.If were’ talking about Spartans being on par with Sangheili,I don’t see why cosmetic personalisation shouldn’t be involved.I’d also like customizable lights in the armour like the glowing strips found in Zealots,but having freedom of colour of choice.Oh yes and Sangheili armor skins,maybe something like having a giant Forerunner symbol embossed on the combat harness.That’d be sick.

7521

> > > > > > > > * Remove “canon” from multiplayer, honestly it just complicates everything I just want to have fun
> > > > > > > > * Return the spartan II models for multiplayer instead of the IV’s
> > > > > > > > * Spartan II’s were almost equal height with the elites in CE, return elites to their CE models, they weren’t as hunched over as the other games so the hit boxes can be adjusted easier to make them equal.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Problem solved.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Incorrect actually. You do realize that with these terms you kick everyone who like multiplayer being involved with canon and like a difference between spartan and elite in the face, right?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The only thing we can really do is just hope elites return to multiplayer. Details are really out of our control from there for the most part.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I would like a canon explanation for Killballs, giant dice, giant soccer balls, and the 7-Wood. Oh right, that can’t be done.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The only differences there used to be with Spartans and Elites before were a small difference in height(not noticeable because Elites never stood straight up when you were fighting them) and that the Elites are well, aliens that look different. Same strength, speed, jump height, health, etc.
> > > > >
> > > > > Those objects you mentioned, are all in customs. We don’t know if customs are canon and even then, I think some objects are there for practical/creative/humorous use.
> > > > >
> > > > > I don’t see the relevancy of your point explaining Halo 2-3 elites to quoting my above post. In case you missed Reach, there was a difference between spartan and elite.
> > > >
> > > > It’s a simple cold truth:
> > > >
> > > > If Elites are DIFFERENT from Spartans, they will never be available in Matchmaking.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The only way to make it so that we can choose to be an Elite at will, is to have them with the same size and traits as Spartans.
> > > >
> > > > Suck it up everyone who wants them different because unfortunately, if you get your way, we will NEVER have Elites in BTB again.
> > >
> > > I’m confused by this reasoning. You say elites will never be in matchmaking if they’re different, yet they are included, but limited, in Reach. What is your proof that your reasoning is fact? Unless you happen to be part of 343i (which I doubt) then that is just your assumption and opinion.
> >
> > Because the competitive community will cause a -Yoink!- over the fact that elites are different than Spartans.
> >
> > They tore them apart in Halo 3 and complained very bitterly about it all, despite there being no height or trait difference between the two, just a slightly different hitbox.
> >
> > And in all honesty: “I’d really rather not piss this thing off.”
>
> And what about the people who prefer canon affecting gameplay/liked playing as Reach elites/etc? Look, I understand your argument and I hope you understand mine, but as we can all see, it’s a community divided argument that 343i will have to make the final decision to implement. I don’t think there’s much more use in arguing over facts we know to be true.

Like I said before, Invasion would allow Elites to be full size if 343i would make it so we could change the size of the player model.

This would allow elites to be used in the all playlists, with a list for those who want a canon experience. In this way, we won’t be limited to just that playlist anyway (which we will if the elites are different height and stength by default).

It’s seems like a simple solution where everyone wins.