> > > But that same exact height issue about elites being taller and the stupid bs cannon nonsense is the same exact reason why elites were hardly playable in Halo Reach and kicked off big time in halo 4? Doesn’t anyone see where I am coming from here? Cannon and advantages are something we don’t need at all.
> >
> > *Canon
> >
> > Erm… I’m pretty sure the reason they weren’t as played as in Reach was because they were limited to certain playlists…
> >
> > Elites had disadvantages too. They were considerably larger targets in Reach and couldn’t fit into smaller corners/passageways.
> >
> > You say canon is something we don’t need for elites being in multiplayer, yet multiplayer is now canon. And elites physically have their physical advantage traits regardless of being shrunk down. I see where you’re coming from, but was it that much a pain to kill them in Reach for you?
>
> Ask that to the people that get pissed off by the advantages that the Elite’s had in Halo Reach which was still unnecessary to have, especially with the height, or the shrinkage of the Spartans.
And those problems were what? Being outran and not being able to jump as far? The only true advantage, Imo, elites had in Reach was the ability to spawn in with plasma nades whilst spartans got frags.
My good sir, said advantages are built into an elite’s anatomy. You see, an elite has double-hinged knees giving it more distance in its stride (increasing speed) and twice as much muscular force in its legs (increasing jump height). Therefore, an elite would actually have to be scaled to a size smaller than a spartan to be equal in foot speed.
Spartans didn’t shrink, the elites and spartans were just the sizes they are in canon.
I understand the hate of the multiplayer=cannon ideology,but Sangheili & Spartans need to have their relative size according to canon.Straying from tradition would go against what Bungie set for us in Reach.What I say may be controversial,but Halo:Reach was the pinnacle of Sangheili player models not just in terms of aesthetics,but overall.We may not have full multiplayer freedom with them then but they were still the best in Reach.Based on experience,I have enough custom games to keep me satisfied with the frequency of which I can be a Sangheili,just keep plenty of friends around,there are still plenty of people whom play Reach instead of Halo 4.Keep them standing upright instead of hunching,unless they hold energy swords.I’m with Abel on this one,keep Sangheili as they were in Reach.
I’ll reiterate what I have said before. Both variations can be utilised within multi-player canon. The larger Reach variant could be created for consistency from reality to Infinity simulation, or the smaller Halo 2/3 variant for greater balance between Spartan-IV and Sangheili avatars (or for an easier simulation for training purposes). From mini-Spartans, Monitors, and Flood, we know for a fact both variants are very possible within Infinity’s simulations. Multi-player canon isn’t going to go away. We need to work with it, and there are a hell of a lot of ways Sangheili can be included within it.
To reiterate; canon needn’t be included in this discussion. Canon is irrelevant here. This is a simulation – certain rules can be bent or broken regardless. The speed, jump height, anything can be changed to allow for balance within these simulations. The choice should be between which is better for balance purposes within the War Games themselves, and which would bring the most enjoyment within these games. We just have to choose what is to be changed and to what extent. I feel I should let you guys know, to avoid redundant argument over what is canon and what is not.
If I’m honest, I don’t really care which variant is included or where I would be able to play. I just want my Sangheili back.
> > > > Making Sangheili larger targets have apparently made some people unhappy.No offence to them,but i do like that trait.Its realistic and is usually not a big issue unless you had limited cover.Just find lager objects to hide behind or use Active camouflage like me.Its jut fun for me to look down,literally on Spartans.If Sangheili player models will not debut for their reappearance,343i needs to give us a formal notification instead of brushing us aside leaving 3rd parties to have to tell us.Its unacceptable and frankly unprofessional.
> > > >
> > > > On a brighter side,here’s to 1000 favourites.Cheers.
> > >
> > > It may be fun for you, but others like it if they could play against Spartans as Elites in a balanced and competitive environment, ala Halo 3.
> > >
> > > This is what this thread is about. Not making the Elites “better” than Spartans (taller, or whatever), but rather to have them back in multiplayer the way it was in Halo 2 and 3. Not how it was done in Halo Reach. Please understand that this is what all those thanks are for. There are 800+ gamers who would like to either play as Elites, play alongside Elites, or even shoot Elites that are on the other team.
> >
> > Taller is not being “better” than Spartans. Extra speed and jump ability, yea that is. Consider how much more easily a Sangheili target is going to die with an assault rifle, or how shots from any gun will have a higher chance of hitting their target. Height has some advantages too, like immediately turning the corner to find an Elite, or head-glitching. Head glitching could easily be fixed by making the Sangheili model crouch down to the exact height of a Spartan crouch, and being head height with each other. If the Elite stands up behind cover then they will be exposing themselves, this would give a Spartan another advantage over Elites.
> >
> > The thing is if we want Elites back we have to operate on 343’s terms. Those terms include canon and no OP. Canon means that Elites in campaign need to match those to be put in multiplayer. That’s a problem seeing how fast they are and stuff. So then we need to find another way to include Elites in a balanced setting while having canon reinforcing their addition.
>
> Whoah you sure debunked my post 100%.
>
> Note that I used sarcastic quotation marks around the word “better” to emphasize the fact that I was making fun of how some people think that being taller is better.
Lol. Guess I was a little tired at the time. Still gets a point out though.
> As I pick up the pieces of my router and plan to burn it for heresy of unspeakable nature. I suppose I best make my peace now before it decides to delete another hundred characters I made for this.
>
>
> -sigh- hate my router so much
>
>
> Before the unfortunate purging of hapless members of the UNSC I will state this.
>
> Its not about balance and gameplay at this point in time. By now you would suspect that the industry naming itself after the killer of SGT. Johnson would probably take a hint at this point and would say something!
>
> Their silence is very uncomfortable, in fact them not saying a word is what drives us all nuts.
>
> The segregation is one thing, yes that can be handled LATER.
>
> The core of the thread was for one thing and one thing alone. Bring the Sangheili back.
>
> WE DO NOT WORK FOR 343 Industries, our ideas can be scrapped at their whim.
>
> The thing of them not commenting or even saying a thing about this forum despite how divinely long it is, is somewhat of a slap in the face to us. For last I checked this company solely existed to keep the Halo Franchise alive, thus we would normally be glad to spend money on it and continue to keep it going.
>
> However while I would normally bring up some sort of statistic, I do not know where to look thus I can be disregarded and hung by my entrails if you disagree.
>
> But the last I checked 343i should be listening to us the customer, and so far they have been somewhat disappointing. You would assume that after this long of time they would respond, say something, even lie if they had to. (Granted I wouldn’t be happy about them lying, I do believe they did already.)
>
> Now considering their choices, honestly bioware did better considering that fiasco we all remember.
>
> However we are not talking about the ending of a series here, but it could very well be with the way things are going.
>
> 343i Must remember that WE are empowered, we are the ones who hold the bills of dollars and or other currencies above their heads. We can put them out of the job if we so desired.
>
> The fact of them ignoring us here is very bad policy in general. And to my utmost surprise we have been ignored. No words in the official forums, nothing from BS angel, none who prowl that are from the core of this thing itself.
>
> IF we are to do anything, it is to send a loud, clear, and STRONG message to them, that we are the ones who make them exist.
>
> There should be no doubt what they will do next, no uncertainty. While do not know the path in which we can take to make this a reality, there should be no doubt for the next game that yes there will be Sangheili, there will be invasion, and other crazier things than the days of Halo 2, 3, and REACH. Firefight returns. All of that. It took them until now to return the ODST armor and the MK V (correct?) armor from Halo 1.
>
> What kind of company does that gimmick?
>
> It shouldn’t be that way.
>
> So I don’t know how any of you diehards and everyone will do it, but you all need to find a way to remind them. I can’t do it, I’m just one person.
> That’s true for us all. And we have to send hand written letters to their offices, SO BE IT.
>
> One way or another we must do something, time is running out until Halo 5 is out, and lord only knows how that will turn out if they don’t hear us.
>
> Either they say something, or we send a message one way or another. But this forum I hate to tell you all my brothers is not enough.
>
> I’m not doing this to type up, I’m doign this because this is a damn good series that no one wants to see jacked up. I don’t want a call of duty in space with Spartans, I don’t want some self righteous UNSC BS.
>
> The objective stays the same for us, we want the Sangheili back, and we’re not alone there are hundreds of others out there that want the Halo we know back. And the lack of a response is what disturbs us all the most.
>
> Forgive me for my ranting, but I suppose it had to be said sooner or later and if I must repeat myself, so be it.
>
> -Out
Well I guess you could use the lowering numbers on Halo 4 as the stats for ignored fans. You’re also right our ideas should be anything not influenced by 343, than perhaps one of those ideas could be used and molded by 343 into the perfect idea for Elites in multiplayer, or perhaps we could all decide on an idea and work on it to perfect it.
Remove “canon” from multiplayer, honestly it just complicates everything I just want to have fun
Return the spartan II models for multiplayer instead of the IV’s
Spartan II’s were almost equal height with the elites in CE, return elites to their CE models, they weren’t as hunched over as the other games so the hit boxes can be adjusted easier to make them equal.
> * Remove “canon” from multiplayer, honestly it just complicates everything I just want to have fun
> * Return the spartan II models for multiplayer instead of the IV’s
> * Spartan II’s were almost equal height with the elites in CE, return elites to their CE models, they weren’t as hunched over as the other games so the hit boxes can be adjusted easier to make them equal.
>
> Problem solved.
Incorrect actually. You do realize that with these terms you kick everyone who like multiplayer being involved with canon and like a difference between spartan and elite in the face, right?
The only thing we can really do is just hope elites return to multiplayer. Details are really out of our control from there for the most part. It’s really 343i to decide how they want to have elites in their multiplayer.
> I’ll reiterate what I have said before. Both variations can be utilised within multi-player canon. The larger Reach variant could be created for consistency from reality to Infinity simulation, or the smaller Halo 2/3 variant for greater balance between Spartan-IV and Sangheili avatars (or for an easier simulation for training purposes). From mini-Spartans, Monitors, and Flood, we know for a fact both variants are very possible within Infinity’s simulations. Multi-player canon isn’t going to go away. We need to work with it, and there are a hell of a lot of ways Sangheili can be included within it.
>
> <mark>To reiterate; canon needn’t be included in this discussion. Canon is irrelevant here. This is a simulation – certain rules can be bent or broken regardless. The speed, jump height, anything can be changed to allow for balance within these simulations. The choice should be between which is better for balance purposes within the War Games themselves, and which would bring the most enjoyment within these games. We just have to choose what is to be changed and to what extent. I feel I should let you guys know, to avoid redundant argument over what is canon and what is not. :P</mark>
>
> If I’m honest, I don’t really care which variant is included or where I would be able to play. I just want my Sangheili back.
Then you’re not really training spartans to fight against and with elites if you’re changing their physical appearance to create an alien with traits of those similar to a SIV’s, are you?
I have to agree though, what I truly want is sangheili in equal multiplayer. Details come next.
> > * Remove “canon” from multiplayer, honestly it just complicates everything I just want to have fun
> > * Return the spartan II models for multiplayer instead of the IV’s
> > * Spartan II’s were almost equal height with the elites in CE, return elites to their CE models, they weren’t as hunched over as the other games so the hit boxes can be adjusted easier to make them equal.
> >
> > Problem solved.
>
> Incorrect actually. You do realize that with these terms you kick everyone who like multiplayer being involved with canon and like a difference between spartan and elite in the face, right?
>
> The only thing we can really do is just hope elites return to multiplayer. Details are really out of our control from there for the most part.
I would like a canon explanation for Killballs, giant dice, giant soccer balls, and the 7-Wood. Oh right, that can’t be done.
The only differences there used to be with Spartans and Elites before were a small difference in height(not noticeable because Elites never stood straight up when you were fighting them) and that the Elites are well, aliens that look different. Same strength, speed, jump height, health, etc.
> > > * Remove “canon” from multiplayer, honestly it just complicates everything I just want to have fun
> > > * Return the spartan II models for multiplayer instead of the IV’s
> > > * Spartan II’s were almost equal height with the elites in CE, return elites to their CE models, they weren’t as hunched over as the other games so the hit boxes can be adjusted easier to make them equal.
> > >
> > > Problem solved.
> >
> > Incorrect actually. You do realize that with these terms you kick everyone who like multiplayer being involved with canon and like a difference between spartan and elite in the face, right?
> >
> > The only thing we can really do is just hope elites return to multiplayer. Details are really out of our control from there for the most part.
>
> I would like a canon explanation for Killballs, giant dice, giant soccer balls, and the 7-Wood. Oh right, that can’t be done.
>
> The only differences there used to be with Spartans and Elites before were a small difference in height(not noticeable because Elites never stood straight up when you were fighting them) and that the Elites are well, aliens that look different. Same strength, speed, jump height, health, etc.
Those objects you mentioned, are all in customs. We don’t know if customs are canon and even then, I think some objects are there for practical/creative/humorous use.
I don’t see the relevancy of your point explaining Halo 2-3 elites to quoting my above post. In case you missed Reach, there was a difference between spartan and elite.
So basically your saying the Elite’s in Halo 2 and 3 do not count for anything and that they are not elite’s? Or are you just ignoring the facts that Elite’s were shooting at and with each other during the multiplayer days of those good games? Because ever since Halo Reach, we are restricted for just being in certain game types which NEVER allowed us to be fighting WITH Spartans on the same team. Tha’ts the thing I mostly miss before there was Halo Reach, there was equality.
Is it me or am I seeing the whole Arbiter Vs Jul Midama thing happening on the Forums?
> So basically your saying the Elite’s in Halo 2 and 3 do not count for anything and that they are not elite’s? Or are you just ignoring the facts that Elite’s were shooting at and with each other during the multiplayer days of those good games? Because ever since Halo Reach, we are restricted for just being in certain game types which NEVER allowed us to be fighting WITH Spartans on the same team. Tha’ts the thing I mostly miss before there was Halo Reach, there was equality.
>
> Is it me or am I seeing the whole Arbiter Vs Jul Midama thing happening on the Forums?
He says
“The only differences there used to be with Spartans and Elites before were a small difference in height(not noticeable because Elites never stood straight up when you were fighting them) and that the Elites are well, aliens that look different. Same strength, speed, jump height, health, etc.”
I pointed out that those were not the only differences as there were more noticeable ones in Reach, that’s basically it. I mention nothing about not including Halo 2-3 elites counting towards anything.
> > > > * Remove “canon” from multiplayer, honestly it just complicates everything I just want to have fun
> > > > * Return the spartan II models for multiplayer instead of the IV’s
> > > > * Spartan II’s were almost equal height with the elites in CE, return elites to their CE models, they weren’t as hunched over as the other games so the hit boxes can be adjusted easier to make them equal.
> > > >
> > > > Problem solved.
> > >
> > > Incorrect actually. You do realize that with these terms you kick everyone who like multiplayer being involved with canon and like a difference between spartan and elite in the face, right?
> > >
> > > The only thing we can really do is just hope elites return to multiplayer. Details are really out of our control from there for the most part.
> >
> > I would like a canon explanation for Killballs, giant dice, giant soccer balls, and the 7-Wood. Oh right, that can’t be done.
> >
> > The only differences there used to be with Spartans and Elites before were a small difference in height(not noticeable because Elites never stood straight up when you were fighting them) and that the Elites are well, aliens that look different. Same strength, speed, jump height, health, etc.
>
> Those objects you mentioned, are all in customs. We don’t know if customs are canon and even then, I think some objects are there for practical/creative/humorous use.
>
> I don’t see the relevancy of your point explaining Halo 2-3 elites to quoting my above post. In case you missed Reach, there was a difference between spartan and elite.
The only thing meant to be taken canon about multiplayer is that Wargames is how Spartan IV’s train. How Wargames canonically works is likely far different and more complex than multiplayer. What takes place in Halo multiplayer is not canon.
I think elites should be their normal height and have the same traits as spartans because I don’t need greater speed or greater jump height to kill spartans just like I don’t need Sangheili to be the same height as a spartan to kill an elite.
> > > > > * Remove “canon” from multiplayer, honestly it just complicates everything I just want to have fun
> > > > > * Return the spartan II models for multiplayer instead of the IV’s
> > > > > * Spartan II’s were almost equal height with the elites in CE, return elites to their CE models, they weren’t as hunched over as the other games so the hit boxes can be adjusted easier to make them equal.
> > > > >
> > > > > Problem solved.
> > > >
> > > > Incorrect actually. You do realize that with these terms you kick everyone who like multiplayer being involved with canon and like a difference between spartan and elite in the face, right?
> > > >
> > > > The only thing we can really do is just hope elites return to multiplayer. Details are really out of our control from there for the most part.
> > >
> > > I would like a canon explanation for Killballs, giant dice, giant soccer balls, and the 7-Wood. Oh right, that can’t be done.
> > >
> > > The only differences there used to be with Spartans and Elites before were a small difference in height(not noticeable because Elites never stood straight up when you were fighting them) and that the Elites are well, aliens that look different. Same strength, speed, jump height, health, etc.
> >
> > Those objects you mentioned, are all in customs. We don’t know if customs are canon and even then, I think some objects are there for practical/creative/humorous use.
> >
> > I don’t see the relevancy of your point explaining Halo 2-3 elites to quoting my above post. In case you missed Reach, there was a difference between spartan and elite.
>
> The only thing meant to be taken canon about multiplayer is that Wargames is how Spartan IV’s train. How Wargames canonically works is likely far different and more complex than multiplayer. What takes place in Halo multiplayer is not canon.
>
> “used to be” as in, before Reach.
That doesn’t mean Elites can’t be playable in future Halo Games.
> > > > > > * Remove “canon” from multiplayer, honestly it just complicates everything I just want to have fun
> > > > > > * Return the spartan II models for multiplayer instead of the IV’s
> > > > > > * Spartan II’s were almost equal height with the elites in CE, return elites to their CE models, they weren’t as hunched over as the other games so the hit boxes can be adjusted easier to make them equal.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Problem solved.
> > > > >
> > > > > Incorrect actually. You do realize that with these terms you kick everyone who like multiplayer being involved with canon and like a difference between spartan and elite in the face, right?
> > > > >
> > > > > The only thing we can really do is just hope elites return to multiplayer. Details are really out of our control from there for the most part.
> > > >
> > > > I would like a canon explanation for Killballs, giant dice, giant soccer balls, and the 7-Wood. Oh right, that can’t be done.
> > > >
> > > > The only differences there used to be with Spartans and Elites before were a small difference in height(not noticeable because Elites never stood straight up when you were fighting them) and that the Elites are well, aliens that look different. Same strength, speed, jump height, health, etc.
> > >
> > > Those objects you mentioned, are all in customs. We don’t know if customs are canon and even then, I think some objects are there for practical/creative/humorous use.
> > >
> > > I don’t see the relevancy of your point explaining Halo 2-3 elites to quoting my above post. In case you missed Reach, there was a difference between spartan and elite.
> >
> > The only thing meant to be taken canon about multiplayer is that Wargames is how Spartan IV’s train. How Wargames canonically works is likely far different and more complex than multiplayer. What takes place in Halo multiplayer is not canon.
> >
> > “used to be” as in, before Reach.
>
> That doesn’t mean Elites can’t be playable in future Halo Games.
You’re completely right, there’s no excuse to not add Elites or even a gamemode where you fly around on a Grunt throwing cheeseburgers at enemies.
Halo 4 introduced a canon to multiplayer,and I don’t think thats gonna stop.I’d like to keep Sangheili the way they were in Reach,I mean in the later Halo games which are strictly 4 & Reach,they were taller,moved slightly faster,and regenerated health naturally with slightly larger kill boxes.I’m no fan of canon,but Sangheili should have canonically coherent size,not doing so deviates from what the later Halo games have brought us.Their larger size is an improvement canonically and we should see them as such.Its also more machinima friendly as machinima is story line based.Imagine how awkward it’d be for the most distinguished people in the Halo community,e.g Arbiter 617 whom make quality machinima to have unrealistic height for Sangheili.Halo 4 has already made machinima difficult with that rubbish thing 343i calls alert carry.
A proposed solution is that we have Sangheili kill boxes kept the same as as Spartans,almost,but just have larger armour.So since the shields encompass the entire armour,shooting for example the tip of a long helmet like an Ultra’s will damage the shields only and not the health of the player since it does not protect any flesh areas around the body.You’ll be noticed,but not killed.
First, It think we all should just form a monster of a Sangheili Clan.
Second, 343i will see us die and ignore many things before that should have elites in MP. MP being canon isn’t a reason as to why Elites shouldn’t be featured it should be the reason why elites should be in MP. Simulations or not. 343i has made it seem like we humans are the super power in the galaxy but we aren’t last time I checked on Halo Waypoint on my XB360 there were only 200 million humans. On a galactic level that is extinct. There were 8 billion Sangheili and 12 Billion brutes. Not to mention unknown numbers of Kig-yar pirates are roaming around so Halo 5 should have not excuss on the lack of alien factions going around.
Third,Not having elites in Halo MP is like taking the Jelly from the Peanut butter. Eating just peanut Butter is good but it is chunky and hard to get down. Its great but it just can’t be done easily.
So 343i why, have you taken the Jelly from our peanut butter. Who the hell would ever ruin that combo.
another try…
Its like taking the chocolate from recess peanut butter cups. Why on Earth would someone just buy small portions of peanut butter. It would b e deemed insulting in order to do so.
But really if the next Halo doesn’t have elites i might not even buy it. This whole thing with no elites has been crazy. ODST had not elites because that would be stupid to compare the two. Reach tired to have them in without angering too many of the haters from Halo 3. I maybe might get it for story but I’m sure it wil lack in that with the way Halo seems to be going.
