Sangheili (Elites) In New Trilogy Matchmaking (Part 1)

Yo, mai squidfaces.

So, I’m sure this topic is being done to death on this thread, but do you guys think it would be realistic for 343i to put Elites in Halo 5 multiplayer? Generally I think their inclusion depends on their involvement with the Campaign (Halo 2 massively expanded on the Elites, so they were available to play as, while in Reach they were the enemy and thus were hamstrung in MP). Do you think the Elites will be thematically involved in the Campaign enough to be included in MP?

Though a better question would be if 343i is continuing with the “War Games Simulation”. If they are, there’s a good chance Elites won’t be in, though it doesn’t count it out.

> Yo, mai squidfaces.
>
> So, I’m sure this topic is being done to death on this thread, but do you guys think it would be realistic for 343i to put Elites in Halo 5 multiplayer? Generally I think their inclusion depends on their involvement with the Campaign (Halo 2 massively expanded on the Elites, so they were available to play as, while in Reach they were the enemy and thus were hamstrung in MP). Do you think the Elites will be thematically involved in the Campaign enough to be included in MP?
>
> Though a better question would be if 343i is continuing with the “War Games Simulation”. If they are, there’s a good chance Elites won’t be in, though it doesn’t count it out.

Considering Usze ‘Taham is a liaison to the UNSC, I don’t see why joint UNSC-Sangheili operations can’t happen.

@Here Be Dargons,:
Go to page 360 of this thread and look at the first 2 posts which are by me there.It should give you an insight as to why-possibly-there may be Sangheili player Models in Halo 5/Halo Xbox One

343 just give us are playable elites back it was fun and exciting and spiced up multiplayer. It wont effect gmaeplay just because other people are spartans stop thinking that.

He’s right, don’t forget us, 343.

> He’s right, don’t forget us, 343.

Again=(

I personally do not think 343i forgot us,instead I think Sangheili player models were not included and left out because it affected their cannon.After all,we all know about their Matchmaking=Cannon ideology.Reach had no cannon,thats what made multiplayer so much more flexible.Frank O Connor stated that he and 343i would do much better for the next Halo game.Their weapon tuning update was a good step forward.They may probably look back on Reach especially for future game development.There was an online article about the plummeting rate of players on Halo 4 servers and video/s done about this and coupled with more people playing Reach,its not exactly good publicity for them.I think we can put our minds much more to rest that 343i will develop a good Halo game and hopefully Sangheili player models.I think they should have slight restrictions of the player models in certain game types.Like Reach but with much more accessibility so that there is a healthy mix of both.Not sure how this would be possible without disappointing us but heck,lets hope 343i will give a shot at this challenge.

Yes,I actually do understand the love of Sangheili player models amongst players,however i think we should support the franchise unconditionally,whether they give us Elites or not.We need to keep this franchise alive cause I know some people will not be buying Halo 5 and give up completely on the Xbox One.This legacy must be kept alive.

> Yes,I actually do understand the love of Sangheili player models amongst players,however i think we should support the franchise unconditionally,whether they give us Elites or not.We need to keep this franchise alive cause I know some people will not be buying Halo 5 and give up completely on the Xbox One.This legacy must be kept alive.

Wanting to keep Halo’s legacy is exactly why I won’t buy Halo 5 if they repeat their mistakes! If they weren’t going to respect the franchise then Microsoft and 343 should have let Halo rest in peace! It is far better to let Halo die with dignity rather than support its sad shadow!

> Yes,I actually do understand the love of Sangheili player models amongst players,however i think we should support the franchise unconditionally,whether they give us Elites or not.We need to keep this franchise alive cause I know some people will not be buying Halo 5 and give up completely on the Xbox One.This legacy must be kept alive.

You should not blindly follow a game just because it holds a lengendary gaming title because I have been playing Halo since day one and having people doing that will get this franchise ran into the ground.

> > Here’s the deal. 343i should just look at it from a purely business perspective. If they go that little extra mile and bring Elites back to multiplayer, even with the limitations of being cut out of hardcore playlists such as MLG/Throwdown, SWAT, and Snipers. They will make a part of the community who honestly cares more about that than “Classic Halo” back. It is an all around good move. And cutting them out of those hardcore playlists will keep the “Elites in SWAT” and “Elites in MLG” complaints completely out of the equation, and I guarantee the Elite community won’t mind those limitations, because for the most part the Elite community isn’t that big on SWAT, MLG and Snipers. And the ones who are perfectly understand the reason for those limitations being that the subtle hitbox changes make an impact on more competitive gameplay.
> >
> > Just so long as we have freedom to play the basic playlists like Team Slayer (both ranked and unranked), Big Team Battle, Team Objective etc. While using our favourite player model, we will be happy.
> >
> > An alternative solution, would be to include an “All Spartans” option in the game’s menu, which will turn everyone on your screen into Spartans, both aestheticly and in terms of hitboxes, even if they are playing as Elites, and anyone without that option sees Elites. This is a pretty simple fix that arena games like Quake and Multiplayer source ports for Doom had years ago. Just you as the client of the server would see and be affected by the change.
>
> Suggested the same alternative solution. I think it would fix a lot in terms of hit-boxes. Since if an Elite choses to go into MLG playlists than the Spartans who don’t like playing against Elites in hard-core playlists can just have the aesthetic option turned on. Maybe an option for “All Elites” could also be implemented.

That is a very bad idea. The reason being is because people would just put the “All Elites” option because of the hitboxes. Also it would not be fair because how would you feel if someone killed you with a headshot that hit about a foot or two in the air above your head. Or if someone shot you squarely in the chest and got the headshot on you because they had the “All Spartans” option. Not trying to down you or anything but that alternative solution just wouldn’t work. But I would like it if they implemented Elite models again in some multiplayer playlists. I miss Invasion :frowning:

> > > Here’s the deal. 343i should just look at it from a purely business perspective. If they go that little extra mile and bring Elites back to multiplayer, even with the limitations of being cut out of hardcore playlists such as MLG/Throwdown, SWAT, and Snipers. They will make a part of the community who honestly cares more about that than “Classic Halo” back. It is an all around good move. And cutting them out of those hardcore playlists will keep the “Elites in SWAT” and “Elites in MLG” complaints completely out of the equation, and I guarantee the Elite community won’t mind those limitations, because for the most part the Elite community isn’t that big on SWAT, MLG and Snipers. And the ones who are perfectly understand the reason for those limitations being that the subtle hitbox changes make an impact on more competitive gameplay.
> > >
> > > Just so long as we have freedom to play the basic playlists like Team Slayer (both ranked and unranked), Big Team Battle, Team Objective etc. While using our favourite player model, we will be happy.
> > >
> > > An alternative solution, would be to include an “All Spartans” option in the game’s menu, which will turn everyone on your screen into Spartans, both aestheticly and in terms of hitboxes, even if they are playing as Elites, and anyone without that option sees Elites. This is a pretty simple fix that arena games like Quake and Multiplayer source ports for Doom had years ago. Just you as the client of the server would see and be affected by the change.
> >
> > Suggested the same alternative solution. I think it would fix a lot in terms of hit-boxes. Since if an Elite choses to go into MLG playlists than the Spartans who don’t like playing against Elites in hard-core playlists can just have the aesthetic option turned on. Maybe an option for “All Elites” could also be implemented.
>
>
> That is a very bad idea. The reason being is because people would just put the “All Elites” option because of the hitboxes. Also it would not be fair because how would you feel if someone killed you with a headshot that hit about a foot or two in the air above your head. Or if someone shot you squarely in the chest and got the headshot on you because they had the “All Spartans” option. Not trying to down you or anything but that alternative solution just wouldn’t work. But I would like it if they implemented Elite models again in some multiplayer playlists. I miss Invasion :frowning:

Yea your right about the “All Elites” option, it would probably ruin Spartans since they would have a bigger hit-box but slow speed. If someone killed me with headshots to my chest I know it would be fair since they were actually getting headshots from their perspective but it would give a weird feeling to these options. If the Elites were added without this then people would have to deal with moving their reticle upwards to get headshots. Wouldn’t the Elite also need to move the reticle downwards to get headshots? If I think of this mathematically a Spartan and an Elite need to move their reticle the same amount of degrees in opposite directions, and the reticle movement speed is the only thing that affects this situation. The same situation is presented with Spartans verses Spartans with the only affected variable being your moving the reticle sideways. Feel free to rebuttal me.

> > > > Here’s the deal. 343i should just look at it from a purely business perspective. If they go that little extra mile and bring Elites back to multiplayer, even with the limitations of being cut out of hardcore playlists such as MLG/Throwdown, SWAT, and Snipers. They will make a part of the community who honestly cares more about that than “Classic Halo” back. It is an all around good move. And cutting them out of those hardcore playlists will keep the “Elites in SWAT” and “Elites in MLG” complaints completely out of the equation, and I guarantee the Elite community won’t mind those limitations, because for the most part the Elite community isn’t that big on SWAT, MLG and Snipers. And the ones who are perfectly understand the reason for those limitations being that the subtle hitbox changes make an impact on more competitive gameplay.
> > > >
> > > > Just so long as we have freedom to play the basic playlists like Team Slayer (both ranked and unranked), Big Team Battle, Team Objective etc. While using our favourite player model, we will be happy.
> > > >
> > > > An alternative solution, would be to include an “All Spartans” option in the game’s menu, which will turn everyone on your screen into Spartans, both aestheticly and in terms of hitboxes, even if they are playing as Elites, and anyone without that option sees Elites. This is a pretty simple fix that arena games like Quake and Multiplayer source ports for Doom had years ago. Just you as the client of the server would see and be affected by the change.
> > >
> > > Suggested the same alternative solution. I think it would fix a lot in terms of hit-boxes. Since if an Elite choses to go into MLG playlists than the Spartans who don’t like playing against Elites in hard-core playlists can just have the aesthetic option turned on. Maybe an option for “All Elites” could also be implemented.
> >
> >
> > That is a very bad idea. The reason being is because people would just put the “All Elites” option because of the hitboxes. Also it would not be fair because how would you feel if someone killed you with a headshot that hit about a foot or two in the air above your head. Or if someone shot you squarely in the chest and got the headshot on you because they had the “All Spartans” option. Not trying to down you or anything but that alternative solution just wouldn’t work. But I would like it if they implemented Elite models again in some multiplayer playlists. I miss Invasion :frowning:
>
> Yea your right about the “All Elites” option, it would probably ruin Spartans since they would have a bigger hit-box but slow speed. If someone killed me with headshots to my chest I know it would be fair since they were actually getting headshots from their perspective but it would give a weird feeling to these options. If the Elites were added without this then people would have to deal with moving their reticle upwards to get headshots. Wouldn’t the Elite also need to move the reticle downwards to get headshots? If I think of this mathematically a Spartan and an Elite need to move their reticle the same amount of degrees in opposite directions, and the reticle movement speed is the only thing that affects this situation. The same situation is presented with Spartans verses Spartans with the only affected variable being your moving the reticle sideways. Feel free to rebuttal me.

We can talk about hitboxes until the end of time but the fact of the matter is that Elites have been a part of Halo’s multiplayer since number 2 and not only have those games done well they have excelled! Halo 4 on the hand is barely staying ahead of Reach player wise. I know that 343’s treatment of Elites is not the only reason for this, but I also know that is why I still play Reach and not Halo 4! The only way they could have gotten me to play Halo 4 occasionally is if I could have ODST armor but they even screwed that up!

I feel the need to rant. Just for old time’s sake. Sorry. :stuck_out_tongue:

Sangheili in multi-player have been a part of Halo for 9 years now. They were a part of almost every custom-, matchmaking, or even forge game I had ever played during my time with this franchise. I liked my Sangheili. Games feel… Wrong without it. I’m relatively sure every Sangheili player can relate in this regard. And I was quite upset when they were not included. It removed an important part of multi-player from the game for me. The reasoning behind it was upsetting as well.

I fail to understand why they were removed from Halo 4. Why were Sangheili be removed? I don’t actually believe 343i told us. We heard through IGN first. They never actually told us we wouldn’t be able to play as a Sangheili formally. Linking back to a post I made 4 months ago, had 343i told us themselves and done it in a manner that would have been sad and apologetic, I would not be as upset about the entire situation. But they didn’t. Making our plight seem unimportant or simply a side-show, as it has been seen as ever since by 343i. We’ve never had a response. We’ve never been mentioned. Not from what I have seen.

The thinly veiled excuse of “multi-player canon” as a reason for their removal was seen as bad mere days after the announcement was made. If Sangheili were not possible, why not give clear reasoning? Since Halo 4’s release, we have seen the Flood, Monitors, and these new “mini-Spartans”. If these things can be created within Infinity’s simulations, and within canon, why can’t a Sangheili? The holographics of Infinity could recreate a Sangheili layered over a Spartan-IV in the manner of Flood, or in any other such way in the manner of Monitors and “mini-Spartans”. Even without the use of simulations, it is still possible in canon with the use of real Sangheili. The alliance between the UNSC and Thel’s faction should still be in place, and relations should have progressed in the past 5 years. Linking back to mine and Raviruga’s posts god knows how long ago and Cobra’s a little while ago, Usze 'Taham should still be the Sangheili liaison to the UNSC, and could have organised joint UNSC-Sangheili training missions. Why could this not be done on Infinity? Humanity’s pride? No. There is no reason 343i could not have created a scene in which this could have been done.

No. Multi-player canon was not the real reason for this change. Sangheili can be implemented inside it, as pointed out above. I struggle to comprehend the reason. Did 343i run out of time? No, that is not a valid reason. They should have made time. Split the tasks. Move programmers from creating all the unused/redundant armour models to creating Sangheili. Though I am not a manager, and I do not work for a game company. But lack of time is a bad reason. The conclusion that I have unfortunately gotten to is that 343i simply did not care about it enough to include them. Though I am naturally pessimistic. :stuck_out_tongue:

This non-caring attitude could have been brought upon for different reasons. My first thought was about cost. Giving a task to a team is costly, and each task implemented is money off the company’s budget. But I’m not sure I want to believe that. A company that “listens to their fans” would allow this to be implemented and take resources from a less important or redundant task if money was a problem. My next thought was whether it was unimportant in their eyes, which was again unbelievable, if 343i wanted to give an air of “listening to fans”, as this thread had been here since March and was huge within a month. The only logical conclusion I could come up with was that they simply didn’t know that our views existed.

Linking back to a previous post, many people do not understand my need to play as a Sangheili. They say “there’s no difference!”, but there is. I’m sure other Sangheili players will agree in this regard. I’ve been a Sangheili player ever since I laid hands upon a Halo 2 at a friend’s house. I would be quite insistent that people change their game-type if it had no Sangheili enabled in Reach. I do not believe that 343i knew of this view. They probably thought that we wouldn’t mind that Sangheili were removed once we saw the sheer amount of armours in 4 and Dominion. No, I don’t think they understood the inclusion of Sangheili that Bungie had implemented, nor the reasons why we liked to use them.

Now this thread has gotten to the size it has, I do believe that we have a much higher chance that Sangheili will be implemented. There’s no way that this thread hasn’t been noticed. I’m upset about our position, and I have been ever since it was announced on IGN. But I do believe that their removal was done in good faith, with them not realising the effect of it. I have faith that they’ve realised their mistake, and I am glad. All I wish for now is that we get a response, of any kind. It would give me piece of mind, which really should have been done in Halo 4. :smiley:

[/rant] Sorry guys. It’s been a good few months or so since I’ve ranted, so I built it up specially. ;D

Machinima directors are also having a hard time making decent Machinimas without Sangheili,even with their skill set.Halo 4 just seemed too unfriendly to Machinima.All the plots without Sangheili make the Machinimas lame,and all that there is to go about is ‘rebel insurrectionists’ again and again.Sangheili are essential as I believe Machinima are one of the key things in this community,and defining Halo apart from just being a good game.There was a story to tell in this saga,and you could shape it in your own way through Machinima and make it exciting.Halo 4 Machinimas are just bland I feel,its official,Sangheili player models should be implemented not purely because of us,but for the key components in Halo that make it exciting,Machinima.I have heard many complaints from directors on youtube about the alert carry and how stupid it looked.Many more componenets could be fixed to help out the making of Machinima.

> Machinima directors are also having a hard time making decent Machinimas without Sangheili,even with their skill set.Halo 4 just seemed too unfriendly to Machinima.All the plots without Sangheili make the Machinimas lame,and all that there is to go about is ‘rebel insurrectionists’ again and again.Sangheili are essential as I believe Machinima are one of the key things in this community,and defining Halo apart from just being a good game.There was a story to tell in this saga,and you could shape it in your own way through Machinima and make it exciting.Halo 4 Machinimas are just bland I feel,its official,Sangheili player models should be implemented not purely because of us,but for the key components in Halo that make it exciting,Machinima.I have heard many complaints from directors on youtube about the alert carry and how stupid it looked.Many more componenets could be fixed to help out the making of Machinima.

We now have to work really hard just to get good shots of the Elites. :confused: This took me a LOT of effort.

So it seems like there is a small chance we will see Halo 2 anniversary in 2014 link: http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/25/microsoft-on-halo-5-halo-2-anniversary

If they did this well it would be a perfect way to bring back elites as it would explain who the Arbiter is and why elites are allied with humanity, but again only if 343 did a good job (an extended ending wouldn’t hurt)! Regardless which Halo is being made as far as I’m concerned it will be make or break for me and that goes for the Xbox 1 as well!

> > Latest Halo 4 news:During the early days of its release Halo 4 garnered almost 200% as much players as it did in Reach,but numbers fell drastically and in the last 2 months we’ve had more people playing Reach than 4.343i have taken out the essence of Halo,Halo 4 was more of just a good game and less of a Halo game<mark>.Sangheili were in fact an essence and removing it as an available player model has not helped the business.</mark>Halo 4 simply did not have enough staying power as Reach did.I strongly believe that the removal of Sangheili player models limited variety and standpoint.To be fighting as another species gave you a whole new perspective than just being boring spartans to the game.I mean experiencing auto health regeneration but having a bigger kill box was a new experience.Having to alter battle strategy due to the changes.As I was saying;PERSPECTIVE.
>
> According to 343, loadout, AA’s and Ordinance also helped the system.
>
> OT, I would love to have invasion back.

If they brought back Invasion one thing I’d like to see is a return to the Beta system of a single round. But it would be even cooler to take it another step into immersion:

The team you are placed on is completely selectable.

When you choose the invasion playlist, it would bring up an option - Spartans, Elites, and Random and would show the number of players searching as each of those choices. That way those players that want to immerse themselves specifically as Spartan or Elite always have the choice of being the species’ they want, while players who don’t really care can choose based on what they feel like, or simply random (though random will most likely wind up matching you against the option that has the least teams. (To take into account uneven team numbers, it would always be the number equal to the number of players searching that species divided by 8, not perfect obviously, but still fairly accurate).

Another bonus to Invasion would be that your chosen character colors should be displayed instead of team colors. Since you shouldn’t need colors to tell if a player is your friend or enemy in Invasion. And it would be a nice touch if you could only use weapons and vehicles that belong to your team with the exception of hijacking or collecting from dead enemies.

I don’t think that the next game’s multiplayer will be based entirely around Spartan IV’s like Halo 4 is, so I believe there is a greater possibility of Elites being playable once again. However, I am still skeptical.

> So it seems like there is a small chance we will see Halo 2 anniversary in 2014 link: http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/25/microsoft-on-halo-5-halo-2-anniversary
>
> If they did this well it would be a perfect way to bring back elites as it would explain who the Arbiter is and why elites are allied with humanity, but again only if 343 did a good job (an extended ending wouldn’t hurt)! Regardless which Halo is being made as far as I’m concerned it will be make or break for me and that goes for the Xbox 1 as well!

And they could include terminals on Arby missions fleshing out past, present, and post Covenant.