Sangheili (Elites) In New Trilogy Matchmaking (Part 1)

I love Elites in Halo, truly, I do, I think they’re a great race to run around as - I mean come on, when you think of space dinosaurs, you can’t help but to imagine them jumping through the air with epic explosions happening in the background.

But for all their uniqueness, they do not provide balanced gameplay. They’re not in Halo 4 multiplayer matchmaking, and I’m fine with that.

What I would like however is if we could swap out our Spartan player models with Elites as an option while in Forge, perhaps even custom games. That’d make me all warm and fuzzy inside <3

But as a general rule of thumb, I agree with anyone who states that Elites are not good for competitive play.

> > > > five years ago when I first got my Xbox, I was 11
> > >
> > > So you aren’t even old enough to buy a Halo game without mommy or daddy…
> >
> > Are you trying to get this thread locked? jesus dude, stop flaming Moa.
> >
> > I played my first halo game when I was eight.
>
> Moa has been doing nothing but flame them. Honestly, I’m about to go through and report half his posts for suggesting that the elite fans are “greedy children”.
>
> When he was disproven on several occasions, he should have just backed down. Every point he’s brought up is either self contradictory to something he mentioned, or just a restate of an already debunked statement.
>
> He’s running on nothing but pure distaste for Elites. And honestly, I think LEGEND ST had the right idea in claiming that most of the reason why probably had to do with his Halo 3 experience, sure we aren’t supposed to bring up stats. But it IS one of those situations where player performance has a direct impact on their opinion of the matter.

Whether or not thats the case there inst need to flame the guy. We almost got this thread locked, lets noit do that.

> > > > > five years ago when I first got my Xbox, I was 11
> > > >
> > > > So you aren’t even old enough to buy a Halo game without mommy or daddy…
> > >
> > > Are you trying to get this thread locked? jesus dude, stop flaming Moa.
> > >
> > > I played my first halo game when I was eight.
> >
> > Moa has been doing nothing but flame them. Honestly, I’m about to go through and report half his posts for suggesting that the elite fans are “greedy children”.
> >
> > When he was disproven on several occasions, he should have just backed down. Every point he’s brought up is either self contradictory to something he mentioned, or just a restate of an already debunked statement.
> >
> > He’s running on nothing but pure distaste for Elites. And honestly, I think LEGEND ST had the right idea in claiming that most of the reason why probably had to do with his Halo 3 experience, sure we aren’t supposed to bring up stats. But it IS one of those situations where player performance has a direct impact on their opinion of the matter.
>
> Whether or not thats the case there inst need to flame the guy. We almost got this thread locked, lets noit do that.

One does not simply lock a popular thread…but yeah, lets try to at least avoid that…

> > > > > > five years ago when I first got my Xbox, I was 11
> > > > >
> > > > > So you aren’t even old enough to buy a Halo game without mommy or daddy…
> > > >
> > > > Are you trying to get this thread locked? jesus dude, stop flaming Moa.
> > > >
> > > > I played my first halo game when I was eight.
> > >
> > > Moa has been doing nothing but flame them. Honestly, I’m about to go through and report half his posts for suggesting that the elite fans are “greedy children”.
> > >
> > > When he was disproven on several occasions, he should have just backed down. Every point he’s brought up is either self contradictory to something he mentioned, or just a restate of an already debunked statement.
> > >
> > > He’s running on nothing but pure distaste for Elites. And honestly, I think LEGEND ST had the right idea in claiming that most of the reason why probably had to do with his Halo 3 experience, sure we aren’t supposed to bring up stats. But it IS one of those situations where player performance has a direct impact on their opinion of the matter.
> >
> > Whether or not thats the case there inst need to flame the guy. We almost got this thread locked, lets noit do that.
>
> One does not simply lock a popular thread…but yeah, lets try to at least avoid that…

Actually, a couple of minutes ago this thread DID have a lock on it, but only temporarily.

> I believe I am quite capable now, but regardless, you seem to want to go off the Elite topic completely to try and insult me because you can’t back up your facts, let me tell you now, Legend is actually putting up a damn valid argument for his defence against the Elites and he is pretty -Yoink!- good at it, insulting me isn’t going to get you anywhere other than this topic locked.

The facts? We already understand the elites will not be playable with release, but either through DLC (hopeful) or Halo 5 it is possible. You seem to not understand that there is a faction of elites that are allied with the humans and there is a faction that is not. You are incorrectly trying to group all elites into one bargin bin. The fact is that the allied group could be training onboard the Infinity with the Spartans, especially since their insight to Covenant tech would be very helpful, considering the UNSC is training these SPARTAN IVs with Human, Forerunner, and Covenant weaponry. Those are the facts.

> > I believe I am quite capable now, but regardless, you seem to want to go off the Elite topic completely to try and insult me because you can’t back up your facts, let me tell you now, Legend is actually putting up a damn valid argument for his defence against the Elites and he is pretty -Yoink!- good at it, insulting me isn’t going to get you anywhere other than this topic locked.
>
> The facts? We already understand the elites will not be playable with release, but either through DLC (hopeful) or Halo 5 it is possible. You seem to not understand that there is a faction of elites that are allied with the humans and there is a faction that is not. You are incorrectly trying to group all elites into one bargin bin. The fact is that the allied group could be training onboard the Infinity with the Spartans, especially since their insight to Covenant tech would be very helpful, considering the UNSC is training these SPARTAN IVs with Human, Forerunner, and Covenant weaponry. Those are the facts.

The fun facts are though, only ODSTs, UNSC personnel & Spartan IVs are on Infinity, that was confirmed a while back, these so called allies of the UNSC aren’t going to be on the Infinity, if they were, they would have been announced by now, if 343i was really looking into putting Elites into Multiplayer, this thread would have been noticed by them by now and responses all around, except ever since the confirmation of Elites not being in, we have heard over and over and more recently from Josh Holmes on Twitter.

I’m fine with you guys pleading for them to be in Halo 5, Halo 5 will probably be a bit less canon wise to allow Elites to make sense, but Halo 4 hasn’t even come out yet and you continue to rally for them in both Halo 4 & 5.

> the allied group could be training onboard the Infinity

> Those are the facts.

Sorry, what? So you mean those could be the facts but have the chance to not be facts?

edit

In fact, the facts, as Moa already pointed them out, are exactly what he posted. No Elites on the Infinity. No “could be” of a supposed “fact” that you came up with out of nowhere.

> > > I believe I am quite capable now, but regardless, you seem to want to go off the Elite topic completely to try and insult me because you can’t back up your facts, let me tell you now, Legend is actually putting up a damn valid argument for his defence against the Elites and he is pretty -Yoink!- good at it, insulting me isn’t going to get you anywhere other than this topic locked.
> >
> > The facts? We already understand the elites will not be playable with release, but either through DLC (hopeful) or Halo 5 it is possible. You seem to not understand that there is a faction of elites that are allied with the humans and there is a faction that is not. You are incorrectly trying to group all elites into one bargin bin. The fact is that the allied group could be training onboard the Infinity with the Spartans, especially since their insight to Covenant tech would be very helpful, considering the UNSC is training these SPARTAN IVs with Human, Forerunner, and Covenant weaponry. Those are the facts.
>
> The fun facts are though, only ODSTs, UNSC personnel & Spartan IVs are on Infinity, that was confirmed a while back, these so called allies of the UNSC aren’t going to be on the Infinity, if they were, they would have been announced by now, if 343i was really looking into putting Elites into Multiplayer, this thread would have been noticed by them by now and responses all around, except ever since the confirmation of Elites not being in, we have heard over and over and more recently from Josh Holmes on Twitter.
>
> I’m fine with you guys pleading for them to be in Halo 5, Halo 5 will probably be a bit less canon wise to allow Elites to make sense, but Halo 4 hasn’t even come out yet and you continue to rally for them in both Halo 4 & 5.

I said they could be. It wouldn’t be hard for 343i to incorporate them into Halo 4. A simple sentence explaining that they picked a few elites to train with them on the Infinity could grant the elites a spot in Multiplayer in Halo 4 through DLC. That is the point I am making, and you fail to understand it.

> I love Elites in Halo, truly, I do, I think they’re a great race to run around as - I mean come on, when you think of space dinosaurs, you can’t help but to imagine them jumping through the air with epic explosions happening in the background.
>
> But for all their uniqueness, they do not provide balanced gameplay. They’re not in Halo 4 multiplayer matchmaking, and I’m fine with that.
>
> What I would like however is if we could swap out our Spartan player models with Elites as an option while in Forge, perhaps even custom games. That’d make me all warm and fuzzy inside <3
>
> But as a general rule of thumb, I agree with anyone who states that Elites are not good for competitive play.

I don’t get this. I mean, I can’t think of a single combat situation in Halo 2 and 3, where the thought ever came to mind that it would have ended differently because he was a Spartan, or an Elite. (Aside from one time in my entire Halo 3 career an Elite caught my stick with his neck, and it disappeared) but I killed him anyway, and we won anyway. In Reach, yes, they totally messed with them, changing their size, and shape, and giving them buffs, but prior to that, there was no balance issue. Anyone who tried to claim there were had no proof to go on. And when it was proven that they were balanced, everyone just scoffed and said something along the lines of “It was setup” or “the video is modified” or “the weapons were set to one hit kill, so it wasn’t actually a headshot”.

There was no balance issue. There were just frustrated players, venting about a shot they missed. The Halo 3 br was just as inconsistent against Spartans, something everyone had complaints about in any game balance/ranting or venting conversation not about Elites. And when players lost a game Spartan vs Spartan, the BR’s inconsistency was usually what they turned to to blame for the loss.

Even in Halo 2 br it was pretty much impossible NOT to 4 shot whether it was a Spartan or Elite, it was balanced because you would 4 shot pretty much no matter what. Same with the Halo 2 and 3 Sniper, 2 was ridiculously easy either way, and 3 was unbelievable difficult and inconsistent either way.

> > the allied group could be training onboard the Infinity
>
>
>
> > Those are the facts.
>
> Sorry, what? So you mean those could be the facts but have the chance to not be facts?
>
> edit
>
> In fact, the facts, as Moa already pointed them out, is exactly what he posted. No Elites on the Infinity. No “could be” of a supposed “fact” that you came up with out of nowhere.

Maj…come on, even you know there are Allied elites that work along side with the humans and such. Considering that Lord Hood and the Arbiter are trying to work on a better relation with each species.

> I said they could be. It wouldn’t be hard for 343i to incorporate them into Halo 4. A simple sentence explaining that they picked a few elites to train with them on the Infinity could grant the elites a spot in Multiplayer in Halo 4 through DLC. That is the point I am making, and you fail to understand it.

The alliance between Elites and the UNSC has been broken. I don’t think any Elites would want to continue fighting alongside the humans.

I know that Kaine, and it’s nice to see you on the forum, but it’s been stated as canon by the developers that there are no Elites on the Infinity. It’s a Human vessel for Humans only as far as I’ve been told.

I’m saddened by what happened to this topic…
But I agree with Moa, the real facts that matter aren’t that Sangheili have different opinions, but what they had done in the past. The common human will group all Elites together based on the acts of the few. Plus since Spartan IVs have fought in the Human-Covenant War, I don’t think they’d be to quick to trust them.

Also, we were allied before due to the firing of the Halo rings. As of right now, we don’t know how large the threat of the ancient evil is. As it stands, Firing the Halo Array > Ancient evil.

> I don’t get this. I mean, I can’t think of a single combat situation in Halo 2 and 3, where the thought ever came to mind that it would have ended differently because he was a Spartan, or an Elite. (Aside from one time in my entire Halo 3 career an Elite caught my stick with his neck, and it disappeared) but I killed him anyway, and we won anyway. In Reach, yes, they totally messed with them, changing their size, and shape, and giving them buffs, but prior to that, there was no balance issue. Anyone who tried to claim there were had no proof to go on. And when it was proven that they were balanced, everyone just scoffed and said something along the lines of “It was setup” or “the video is modified” or “the weapons were set to one hit kill, so it wasn’t actually a headshot”.
>
> There was no balance issue. There were just frustrated players, venting about a shot they missed. The Halo 3 br was just as inconsistent against Spartans, something everyone had complaints about in any game balance/ranting or venting conversation not about Elites. And when players lost a game Spartan vs Spartan, the BR’s inconsistency was usually what they turned to to blame for the loss.
>
> Even in Halo 2 br it was pretty much impossible NOT to 4 shot whether it was a Spartan or Elite, it was balanced because you would 4 shot pretty much no matter what. Same with the Halo 2 and 3 Sniper, 2 was ridiculously easy either way, and 3 was unbelievable difficult and inconsistent either way.

Inconsistent hitboxes are the reason why there were many frustrated players venting about a shot they missed.

Saying there was no balance issue is like saying this thread isn’t filled with arguments.

> > > > I believe I am quite capable now, but regardless, you seem to want to go off the Elite topic completely to try and insult me because you can’t back up your facts, let me tell you now, Legend is actually putting up a damn valid argument for his defence against the Elites and he is pretty -Yoink!- good at it, insulting me isn’t going to get you anywhere other than this topic locked.
> > >
> > > The facts? We already understand the elites will not be playable with release, but either through DLC (hopeful) or Halo 5 it is possible. You seem to not understand that there is a faction of elites that are allied with the humans and there is a faction that is not. You are incorrectly trying to group all elites into one bargin bin. The fact is that the allied group could be training onboard the Infinity with the Spartans, especially since their insight to Covenant tech would be very helpful, considering the UNSC is training these SPARTAN IVs with Human, Forerunner, and Covenant weaponry. Those are the facts.
> >
> > The fun facts are though, only ODSTs, UNSC personnel & Spartan IVs are on Infinity, that was confirmed a while back, these so called allies of the UNSC aren’t going to be on the Infinity, if they were, they would have been announced by now, if 343i was really looking into putting Elites into Multiplayer, this thread would have been noticed by them by now and responses all around, except ever since the confirmation of Elites not being in, we have heard over and over and more recently from Josh Holmes on Twitter.
> >
> > I’m fine with you guys pleading for them to be in Halo 5, Halo 5 will probably be a bit less canon wise to allow Elites to make sense, but Halo 4 hasn’t even come out yet and you continue to rally for them in both Halo 4 & 5.
>
> I said they <mark>could</mark> be. It wouldn’t be hard for 343i to incorporate them into Halo 4. A simple sentence explaining that they picked a few elites to train with them on the Infinity could grant the elites a spot in Multiplayer in Halo 4 through DLC. That is the point I am making, and you fail to understand it.

Nope, you claimed it as fact, stop keeping yourself in denial.

They could do that, but will they really do it, why would they take away time to add a whole new HUD for Elites, updated all the .map files to make Elites work on every map with all armour options.

The work is extensive for the Elites to work, the UI changes as well as mentioned above, in all it is costly, even for 343i, just because they are a MS company, doesn’t mean they have a blank check to spend it on anything they want, the exact same reason held 343i back from adding 1-50 or a better ranking system to Halo: Reach, because the UI changes were extensive and would have been costly, once the game is shipped, they will be fully focused on the three promised DLC packs which the Limited Edition owners will get for free, not DLC that wasn’t planned to make Elites or Elites models playable.

Accept the facts, it is simply to much for a console game.

> > I said they could be. It wouldn’t be hard for 343i to incorporate them into Halo 4. A simple sentence explaining that they picked a few elites to train with them on the Infinity could grant the elites a spot in Multiplayer in Halo 4 through DLC. That is the point I am making, and you fail to understand it.
>
> The alliance between Elites and the UNSC has been broken. I don’t think any Elites would want to continue fighting alongside the humans.

Thel 'Vadam (The Arbiter) and every elite who follows him wishes to continue their alliance with the humans. In fact Lord Hood came to Sanghelios just to speak with him.

> Nope, you claimed it as fact, stop keeping yourself in denial.
>
> They could do that, but will they really do it, why would they take away time to add a whole new HUD for Elites, updated all the .map files to make Elites work on every map with all armour options.
>
> The work is extensive for the Elites to work, the UI changes as well as mentioned above, in all it is costly, even for 343i, just because they are a MS company, doesn’t mean they have a blank check to spend it on anything they want, the exact same reason held 343i back from adding 1-50 or a better ranking system to Halo: Reach, because the UI changes were extensive and would have been costly, once the game is shipped, they will be fully focused on the three promised DLC packs which the Limited Edition owners will get for free, not DLC that wasn’t planned to make Elites or Elites models playable.
>
> Accept the facts, it is simply to much for a console game.

  1. If you look at my original post, I said could. I guess your reading comprehension is a little behind.

  2. Only in Halo 3 were the armor variants included in .map files. Armor can be added as DLC.

  3. The reason a 1-50 ranking system is not included, as stated by Frank O’Connor on Neogaf, is because it caused too many Halo players to cheat, whether it be through aimbot, host booting, bartering for accounts etc.

> > I don’t get this. I mean, I can’t think of a single combat situation in Halo 2 and 3, where the thought ever came to mind that it would have ended differently because he was a Spartan, or an Elite. (Aside from one time in my entire Halo 3 career an Elite caught my stick with his neck, and it disappeared) but I killed him anyway, and we won anyway. In Reach, yes, they totally messed with them, changing their size, and shape, and giving them buffs, but prior to that, there was no balance issue. Anyone who tried to claim there were had no proof to go on. And when it was proven that they were balanced, everyone just scoffed and said something along the lines of “It was setup” or “the video is modified” or “the weapons were set to one hit kill, so it wasn’t actually a headshot”.
> >
> > There was no balance issue. There were just frustrated players, venting about a shot they missed. The Halo 3 br was just as inconsistent against Spartans, something everyone had complaints about in any game balance/ranting or venting conversation not about Elites. And when players lost a game Spartan vs Spartan, the BR’s inconsistency was usually what they turned to to blame for the loss.
> >
> > Even in Halo 2 br it was pretty much impossible NOT to 4 shot whether it was a Spartan or Elite, it was balanced because you would 4 shot pretty much no matter what. Same with the Halo 2 and 3 Sniper, 2 was ridiculously easy either way, and 3 was unbelievable difficult and inconsistent either way.
>
> Inconsistent hitboxes are the reason why there were many frustrated players venting about a shot they missed.
>
> Saying there was no balance issue is like saying this thread isn’t filled with arguments.

How? If they don’t know how to hit an Elite’s head, that’s their problem not mind. The fact is, noone ever complains that they can’t headshot a grunt, or a jackal, or a Brute because it’s too hard. Heck, noone ever complained about headshotting Elites in Campaign. So why is it such a huge deal all of a sudden in multiplayer? It’s simple they messed up, it’s not the hitboxes fault, it’s theirs.

Like I mentioned, when I was shooting at an Elite player in Halo 3, I never once thought “those hitboxes are so hard to hit!” All I thought was “there is the Elite’s head, now lead shot, now shoot” just like I did for a Spartan. It was exactly the same, no matter the angle. The inconsistencies lied in BR spread, Lag, and Bullet Travel, and it was the same inconsistencies I met whenever I shot at a Spartan. Exactly the same.

Maybe I’m just gifted by having played so many games like quake III, and Unreal Tournament that I’m very used to having, often, several differently shaped targets to shoot at. Or maybe because I play Mortal Kombat and Marvel vs Capcom, I’m used to very well balanced games where players start radically different, so the appearance change of Spartan to Elite, and how very, very similar they are has no effect on me. But honestly, it really isn’t a big deal, in no way as big a deal as most players try to say it is. IF it ever affects say, even 1 in 100 fights, and I’m being really nice here, it still won’t affect the outcome of a game.

And again on top of that. Choosing an Armour Ability has a much higher impact on the game than a subtle appearance change ever would. And now they are adding all these perks, and the ability to select weapons of varying attributes. They are literally making it so when a Spartan meets a Spartan the whole fight is completely different from one to the next, unpredictably so. Looking slightly different, and literally having completely different attributes and abilities, totally outclass one another in terms of disbalance, and lack of competitiveness.

> > The facts? We already understand the elites will not be playable with release, but either through DLC (hopeful) or Halo 5 it is possible. You seem to not understand that there is a faction of elites that are allied with the humans and there is a faction that is not. You are incorrectly trying to group all elites into one bargin bin. The fact is that the allied group <mark>could be</mark> training onboard the Infinity with the Spartans, especially since their insight to Covenant tech would be very helpful, considering the UNSC is training these SPARTAN IVs with Human, Forerunner, and Covenant weaponry. Those are the facts.
>
> The fun facts are though, only ODSTs, UNSC personnel & Spartan IVs are on Infinity, that was confirmed a while back, these so called allies of the UNSC aren’t going to be on the Infinity, if they were, they would have been announced by now, if 343i was really looking into putting Elites into Multiplayer, this thread would have been noticed by them by now and responses all around, except ever since the confirmation of Elites not being in, we have heard over and over and more recently from Josh Holmes on Twitter.
>
> I’m fine with you guys pleading for them to be in Halo 5, Halo 5 will probably be a bit less canon wise to allow Elites to make sense, but Halo 4 hasn’t even come out yet and you continue to rally for them in both Halo 4 & 5.

I said they <mark>could</mark> be. It wouldn’t be hard for 343i to incorporate them into Halo 4. A simple sentence explaining that they picked a few elites to train with them on the Infinity could grant the elites a spot in Multiplayer in Halo 4 through DLC. That is the point I am making, and you fail to understand it.

[/quote]

> <mark>Nope, you claimed it as fact, stop keeping yourself in denial.</mark>

<mark>lolwut moa?</mark>

I agree it is extensive, but not impossible. They could do this if they wanted. They are using the reach engine, they could recycle the reach elites UI and make it fit for halo 4, they could recycle the hud and update it.

The .map updating would be the hard part, and we don’t even know if armor is in the .map files anymore so that is not a valid argument.

> > > > > > I believe I am quite capable now, but regardless, you seem to want to go off the Elite topic completely to try and insult me because you can’t back up your facts, let me tell you now, Legend is actually putting up a damn valid argument for his defence against the Elites and he is pretty -Yoink!- good at it, insulting me isn’t going to get you anywhere other than this topic locked.
> > > > >
> > > > > The facts? We already understand the elites will not be playable with release, but either through DLC (hopeful) or Halo 5 it is possible. You seem to not understand that there is a faction of elites that are allied with the humans and there is a faction that is not. You are incorrectly trying to group all elites into one bargin bin. The fact is that the allied group <mark>could</mark> be training onboard the Infinity with the Spartans, especially since their insight to Covenant tech would be very helpful, considering the UNSC is training these SPARTAN IVs with Human, Forerunner, and Covenant weaponry. Those are the facts.
> > > >
> > > > The fun facts are though, only ODSTs, UNSC personnel & Spartan IVs are on Infinity, that was confirmed a while back, these so called allies of the UNSC aren’t going to be on the Infinity, if they were, they would have been announced by now, if 343i was really looking into putting Elites into Multiplayer, this thread would have been noticed by them by now and responses all around, except ever since the confirmation of Elites not being in, we have heard over and over and more recently from Josh Holmes on Twitter.
> > > >
> > > > I’m fine with you guys pleading for them to be in Halo 5, Halo 5 will probably be a bit less canon wise to allow Elites to make sense, but Halo 4 hasn’t even come out yet and you continue to rally for them in both Halo 4 & 5.
> > >
> > > I said they <mark>could</mark> be. It wouldn’t be hard for 343i to incorporate them into Halo 4. A simple sentence explaining that they picked a few elites to train with them on the Infinity could grant the elites a spot in Multiplayer in Halo 4 through DLC. That is the point I am making, and you fail to understand it.
> >
> > <mark>Nope, you claimed it as fact, stop keeping yourself in denial.</mark>
> >
> > They could do that, but will they really do it, why would they take away time to add a whole new HUD for Elites, updated all the .map files to make Elites work on every map with all armour options.
> >
> > The work is extensive for the Elites to work, the UI changes as well as mentioned above, in all it is costly, even for 343i, just because they are a MS company, doesn’t mean they have a blank check to spend it on anything they want, the exact same reason held 343i back from adding 1-50 or a better ranking system to Halo: Reach, because the UI changes were extensive and would have been costly, once the game is shipped, they will be fully focused on the three promised DLC packs which the Limited Edition owners will get for free, not DLC that wasn’t planned to make Elites or Elites models playable.
> >
> > Accept the facts, it is simply to much for a console game.
>
> <mark>lolwut moa?</mark>
>
> I agree it is extensive, but not impossible. They could do this if they wanted. They are using the reach engine, they could recycle the reach elites UI and make it fit for halo 4, they could recycle the hud and update it.
>
> The .map updating would be the hard part, and we don’t even know if armor is in the .map files anymore so that is not a valid argument.

Considering they have been using the same engine for a long time now but heavily modifying it each time, I would be surprised if it wasn’t stored on the .map files, recycling the models from Reach would be simple, if the engine wasn’t so heavily upgraded to the point the models from Reach would require graphical overhauls and same for the HUD.