well, it would’ve been nice if they stuck to just adding a litte more personality to
the elites, but i have to say that the elites for H4 look a little lame. In H3 and Reach, i was actually scared of them, but not so much now. they look a little too…
well it’s hard to describe. here
just have a look for yourself. www.dragonlover030393.deviantart.com
This is my art site, just have a look in the gallery to see the elites, plus i think the helms for the S4s look totally lame.
Heh, 117 pages.
> Ever heard of the arbiter? He went on a suicide mission and survived.
Your going to have to specify which arbiter your speaking of. In the Halo Universe, there’s been a lot of arbiters. For the sake of not being a locker room lawyer on this, I’ll assume Thel V., or the Halo 2 and 3 Arbiter. As for his suicide mission, he was ordered to kill a heretic on a platform if I remember correctly. He further rose to the seat of power and honor at the end of Halo 3, whether he can or can’t has yet to be proven, but given his particular skill sets, I’d be willing to wager 200:1 odds of successfully killing off multiple Spartans in a continuous fight. My reasoning for this is because no elite was considered the top notch warrior meant for suicide only missions. They were the right hand guardians for the leaders of the Covenant, not offensive death dealer specialists.
> And he probably can take out several Spartans at a time.
See above.
> Plus, a lot of the arenas where Spartans drop hordes of elites make no sense whatsoever. Like in that Halo Wars thing were a Spartan picks up an elite’s spear-thing and immediately is better with it than the elites who train with it all of their lives? Since when do Spartans train with spears? And how come they are better with spears than the elites who train with them all of the time? Makes no sense…
A little lesson on war: things are not meant to make sense. It’s war, you utilize your skill sets to hopefully walk away from the situations, bu in the end? If something needs to be captured and you believe yourself religious cause to be so just and powerful you could never fail… then your going to get the cockiness that was present in the Halo Wars cinematic cutscene, “Monsters”. The cutscene moment your referring to is a very specific notion of picking up a weapon on the field of battle and understanding how to exactly use it with precision. The facts are when you pick up a weapon, instinctual data floods into your brain and you run the course of testing the waters with this weapon to see if luck is on your side, if not? You just died because of it. With specific regard to spears, Spartans have received extensive training in hand-to-hand, knife, and weapon combat. Spartan II’s, with that experience, could very well pick up any weapon, shape, and value on the battlefield and be able to use it effectively in a wide possibility of situations. This is part of the reason S-II’s were revered as more powerful then S-III which had more weapon training and received plasma weapon training.
> Then both Emile and Noble 6’s death.
>
> Emile’s death: A knife beats a giant laser sword
> Noble 6’s death: Half of the elites run up to him and die without getting shot, punched or anything. They just die to make Noble 6 look cooler.
In war, a hand can be more deadly then a trigger.
> I hope that they do not continue this trend.
>
> In Halo 2/3, Elites were about equal to Spartans.
>
> In the newer games, an elite is equal to nothing.
H2 and H3 were facing the last spartan. MC has been identified as a Hyper Lethal Vector against enemies for a reason. As for elites being comparable, no one can honestly speculate beyond: many elites died and none managed to bring down a single Spartan II. As for strength, etc., who’s to know…
> P.S. In all of the cut scenes in Halo, Jackals kill more Spartans than Spartans kill Jackals. So does that mean Jackals are better than Spartans? I don’t think so.
In cut scene’s, this may be true. According to novels, Spartans killed “enemy units” which include jackals, on all missions they participated on. Therefore, based on this, Jackals are inferior to Spartans.
Since this thread has become huge with giant post’s I’m not sure which to reply to.
However PhNx Hellfire I gather your saying Spartan’s are superior to Elite’s or that many Elite’s died to kill a single Spartan etc. (correct me if I’m wrong)
However I’m gonna have to send this link to you.
I think a quick glance over that article will clue you into my point. See Spartan’s and Elite’s are equal, but who win’s is determined by the plot.
1. For instance Thel’Vadam killed Spartan Jai-006 nearly single handidly defending the Prophet of Truth, because Thel’Vadam could not die before the plot of Halo 2.
2. Sergeant Forge (A non Spartan!) defeated Ripa’Moramee because the plot demanded he stay behind to destroy the Shield World. Therefore he could not die. And the Elite’s engaging the Spartan’s in that cut scene also followed the “One-at-a-time Attack Rule” and were slaughtered for it, despite being the best of the best Honor Guard’s.
Master Chief is wrapped in invincible plot armor, And the Arbiter was too during the event’s of Halo 2-3.
Plot armor know’s no bound’s. Be it Human or Covenant.
couldn’t they have made Elites a computer program in the simulation/holo deck thing?
PS What exactly are the Spartans using on Infinity? Is it a simulation like the Matrix or is it like Star Trek holo-deck? If it was a holo-deck the spartans would be dead…
> > Ever heard of the arbiter? He went on a suicide mission and survived.
>
> Your going to have to specify which arbiter your speaking of. In the Halo Universe, there’s been a lot of arbiters. For the sake of not being a locker room lawyer on this, I’ll assume Thel V., or the Halo 2 and 3 Arbiter. As for his suicide mission, he was ordered to kill a heretic on a platform if I remember correctly. He further rose to the seat of power and honor at the end of Halo 3, whether he can or can’t has yet to be proven, but given his particular skill sets, I’d be willing to wager 200:1 odds of successfully killing off multiple Spartans in a continuous fight. My reasoning for this is because no elite was considered the top notch warrior meant for suicide only missions. They were the right hand guardians for the leaders of the Covenant, not offensive death dealer specialists.
>
>
>
> > And he probably can take out several Spartans at a time.
>
> See above.
>
>
>
> > Plus, a lot of the arenas where Spartans drop hordes of elites make no sense whatsoever. Like in that Halo Wars thing were a Spartan picks up an elite’s spear-thing and immediately is better with it than the elites who train with it all of their lives? Since when do Spartans train with spears? And how come they are better with spears than the elites who train with them all of the time? Makes no sense…
>
> A little lesson on war: things are not meant to make sense. It’s war, you utilize your skill sets to hopefully walk away from the situations, bu in the end? If something needs to be captured and you believe yourself religious cause to be so just and powerful you could never fail… then your going to get the cockiness that was present in the Halo Wars cinematic cutscene, “Monsters”. The cutscene moment your referring to is a very specific notion of picking up a weapon on the field of battle and understanding how to exactly use it with precision. The facts are when you pick up a weapon, instinctual data floods into your brain and you run the course of testing the waters with this weapon to see if luck is on your side, if not? You just died because of it. With specific regard to spears, Spartans have received extensive training in hand-to-hand, knife, and weapon combat. Spartan II’s, with that experience, could very well pick up any weapon, shape, and value on the battlefield and be able to use it effectively in a wide possibility of situations. This is part of the reason S-II’s were revered as more powerful then S-III which had more weapon training and received plasma weapon training.
>
>
>
> > Then both Emile and Noble 6’s death.
> >
> > Emile’s death: A knife beats a giant laser sword
> > Noble 6’s death: Half of the elites run up to him and die without getting shot, punched or anything. They just die to make Noble 6 look cooler.
>
> In war, a hand can be more deadly then a trigger.
>
>
>
> > I hope that they do not continue this trend.
> >
> > In Halo 2/3, Elites were about equal to Spartans.
> >
> > In the newer games, an elite is equal to nothing.
>
> H2 and H3 were facing the last spartan. MC has been identified as a Hyper Lethal Vector against enemies for a reason. As for elites being comparable, no one can honestly speculate beyond: many elites died and none managed to bring down a single Spartan II. As for strength, etc., who’s to know…
>
>
>
> > P.S. In all of the cut scenes in Halo, Jackals kill more Spartans than Spartans kill Jackals. So does that mean Jackals are better than Spartans? I don’t think so.
>
> In cut scene’s, this may be true. According to novels, Spartans killed “enemy units” which include jackals, on all missions they participated on. Therefore, based on this, Jackals are inferior to Spartans.
A hand can beat a trigger? those were more like cinamatic scenes just to make the Spartans look like total bad -Yoinks!-. Given if it was more based on the novel perspective, The Spartans would have had a lot more trouble handling the Elites in Combat. Hence, Noble six should have died with those couple of plasma shots he took to the chest when his sheilds were gone in the scenery. As for Master Chief, he is still pretty damn lucky to survive a fight against elites since he barly survives.
> couldn’t they have made Elites a computer program in the simulation/holo deck thing?
> PS What exactly are the Spartans using on Infinity? Is it a simulation like the Matrix or is it like Star Trek holo-deck? If it was a holo-deck the spartans would be dead…
Think of it like the danger room in X-Men or…say for Example Assassins Creed simulator in Multi-player. It’s basicly ment for training them for the up coming battles.
> > couldn’t they have made Elites a computer program in the simulation/holo deck thing?
> > PS What exactly are the Spartans using on Infinity? Is it a simulation like the Matrix or is it like Star Trek holo-deck? If it was a holo-deck the spartans would be dead…
>
> Think of it like the danger room in X-Men or…say for Example Assassins Creed simulator in Multi-player. It’s basicly ment for training them for the up coming battles.
So they’ll be “plugged” into a machine or something?
If so, then back to my original point about Elites, in the story they could be a computer program for the simulation, but would actually be controlled by the gamer. A nice thought I had.
> > > couldn’t they have made Elites a computer program in the simulation/holo deck thing?
> > > PS What exactly are the Spartans using on Infinity? Is it a simulation like the Matrix or is it like Star Trek holo-deck? If it was a holo-deck the spartans would be dead…
> >
> > Think of it like the danger room in X-Men or…say for Example Assassins Creed simulator in Multi-player. It’s basicly ment for training them for the up coming battles.
>
> So they’ll be “plugged” into a machine or something?
> If so, then back to my original point about Elites, in the story they could be a computer program for the simulation, but would actually be controlled by the gamer. A nice thought I had.
I’m not so sure if being Plugged is the right word but its definetly not like the matrix. I think its like holographic or whatever. We will just have to wait and see how it is.
> —
Much as I want to, I can’t really think of a response that would properly defend our request (which is likely why 343 won’t do it). It comes down to preference, and many in this thread prefer to use the Elite model over the Spartan for various reasons.
In regards to myself, Invasion had us switch sides as part of the game. The Spartan side did little to inspire me, if anything, but the Elite side gave me a few more reasons to fight, mostly related to my head-canon (the storylines I had come up with for my Elite persona in game). I wanted to do well, both for myself and for the character I had created. The Spartans did not fit into this canon, so they were irrelevant to anything other than winning the game. As Reach never really allowed me to be an Elite, most of the game was simply meeting victory conditions for the game.
I think many others here echo that sentiment, judging by the few sangheili names I’ve seen (I did have one, as well.) They want to continue their story in Halo 4, fighting battles online as their Elite warrior, bringing glory and honor to themselves and the character they’ve made. The game loses some value to us with the loss of playable Elites for this reason.
I must say, I like you. Rare to find a civilized discussion in such a wretched hive of scum and villainy as this forum.
Add me.
Anyways, I’m not to worried…
343 would be out of their mind if invasion was not returning.
um… not to trouble you…but… i dont think invasion will return…but maybe in some different form
> um… not to trouble you…but… i dont think invasion will return…but maybe in some different form
I think this is the key wording here.
It’s the same with firefight: 343 knows that it’s a popular feature, so they won’t entirely abandon it.
I’m 99% sure that some spartan ops mission will be more or less firefight. Likewise, i’m sure invasion will be present in some way.
Ah, Invasion. I’ve always liked Invasion; it gave me an opportunity to play as an Elite in a Spartan dominated game.
Besides, it’s the actual war, not just a training simulation. It’s very refreshing, but that might be just me. I hope it remains, if only the see Elites back again.
> Since this thread has become huge with giant post’s I’m not sure which to reply to.
>
> However PhNx Hellfire I gather your saying Spartan’s are superior to Elite’s or that many Elite’s died to kill a single Spartan etc. (correct me if I’m wrong)
>
> However I’m gonna have to send this link to you.
>
> I think a quick glance over that article will clue you into my point. See Spartan’s and Elite’s are equal, but who win’s is determined by the plot.
>
> 1. For instance Thel’Vadam killed Spartan Jai-006 nearly single handidly defending the Prophet of Truth, because Thel’Vadam could not die before the plot of Halo 2.
>
> 2. Sergeant Forge (A non Spartan!) defeated Ripa’Moramee because the plot demanded he stay behind to destroy the Shield World. Therefore he could not die. And the Elite’s engaging the Spartan’s in that cut scene also followed the “One-at-a-time Attack Rule” and were slaughtered for it, despite being the best of the best Honor Guard’s.
>
> Master Chief is wrapped in invincible plot armor, And the Arbiter was too during the event’s of Halo 2-3.
>
> Plot armor know’s no bound’s. Be it Human or Covenant.
I lol’ed so hard at the “Law of Conservation of Ninjutsu” and yet all of this is so sad.
> A hand can beat a trigger? those were more like cinamatic scenes just to make the Spartans look like total bad -Yoinks!-. Given if it was more based on the novel perspective, The Spartans would have had a lot more trouble handling the Elites in Combat. Hence, Noble six should have died with those couple of plasma shots he took to the chest when his sheilds were gone in the scenery. As for Master Chief, he is still pretty damn lucky to survive a fight against elites since he barly survives.
Disable a hand, the person can’t push a button
As for Spartans, they were trained to be the best suicidal offensive squads of the entire UNSC. Elites? They are honor bound warriors which train mind, body, and soul for a purpose and in the end? With sheer numbers, power of hand, and intellect proven time and again, basically forced the human race to the brink of earth. It’s a lot to know, and in war, they proved the small fights may have lost hundreds to thousands of their brothers, but in the end? They fought with new allies and won the war. This does not exclude the power, intellect, and accomplishments of the Spartans who fought and dropped those hundred to thousand elites though, and that is what is being focused on with Halo 4 MM: Making even better Spartans. To get back on track, why should elites be put into that environment?
Alright here’s my explanation.
- Muiltplayer is story driven and takes place on a UNSC Super Carrier with only humans it wouldn’t make sense if Elites were on there.
- The Covies broke the treaty as well so there would be no liaison officers abroad.
That’s my word on the matter naw on that for awhile.
> Since this thread has become huge with giant post’s I’m not sure which to reply to.
>
> However PhNx Hellfire I gather your saying Spartan’s are superior to Elite’s or that many Elite’s died to kill a single Spartan etc. (correct me if I’m wrong)
>
> However I’m gonna have to send this link to you.
>
> I think a quick glance over that article will clue you into my point. See Spartan’s and Elite’s are equal, but who win’s is determined by the plot.
>
> 1. For instance Thel’Vadam killed Spartan Jai-006 nearly single handidly defending the Prophet of Truth, because Thel’Vadam could not die before the plot of Halo 2.
>
> 2. Sergeant Forge (A non Spartan!) defeated Ripa’Moramee because the plot demanded he stay behind to destroy the Shield World. Therefore he could not die. And the Elite’s engaging the Spartan’s in that cut scene also followed the “One-at-a-time Attack Rule” and were slaughtered for it, despite being the best of the best Honor Guard’s.
>
> Master Chief is wrapped in invincible plot armor, And the Arbiter was too during the event’s of Halo 2-3.
>
> Plot armor know’s no bound’s. Be it Human or Covenant.
-Jai-006 isn’t dead, your information is incorrect.
-That is incorrect, too. That isn’t a plot demand, a Spartan could have killed Ripa Moramee, and Forge could have still volunteered to destroy the shield world.
-The Elites rushed the Spartans, 3 at a time, in waves. And to be honest, they didn’t seem to be honor guards, because honor guards are known to be present when a Prophet is in the vicinity, Regret left the Shield World before the final battle.
> However PhNx Hellfire I gather your saying Spartan’s are superior to Elite’s or that many Elite’s died to kill a single Spartan etc. (correct me if I’m wrong)
Incorrect. I am stating the reasons for why Spartans are to be included in a simulation environment aboard one of their own vessels: it produces results. With regard to the accomplishments of both Elites and Spartans, Elites simply put, have not put in the time and effort Spartans have to produce similar results. Not to say the Elites didn’t accomplish significantly difficult challenges, but the Spartans are revered for the offensive powerhouse each can employ against any enemy, on a multitude of arenas. With regard to Elites being present in Halo 4 MM, there is simply no reason for them to be there and the primary reason for Spartan IV’s training is:
A) Introduction/improvements for Spartan Op’s
B) To prove who is the best and improve on it.
> However I’m gonna have to send this link to you.
My apologies, but as I’ve worked many years into my college degree, I have come to find a distrust and non-credible source on wikipedia pages. As a direct result, I scroll down and view the actual source info when I am doing searches that land me on such pages. Please point me to the source you wish me to read and review.
> I think a quick glance over that article will clue you into my point. See Spartan’s and Elite’s are equal, but who win’s is determined by the plot.
See above.
> 1. For instance Thel’Vadam defeated Spartan Jai-006 nearly single handidly defending the Prophet of Truth, because Thel’Vadam could not die before the plot of Halo 2.
Good example.
> 2. Sergeant Forge (A non Spartan!) defeated Ripa’Moramee because the plot demanded he stay behind to destroy the Shield World. Therefore he could not die. And the Elite’s engaging the Spartan’s in that cut scene also followed the “One-at-a-time Attack Rule” and were slaughtered for it, despite being the best of the best Honor Guard’s.
While I cannot speak for the reasons in a video game, a piece of my personal history is I am associated with a non-profit, non-sectarian martial arts organization and in direct involvement with that for over 5 years, I became associated with LARPing (Live Action Role Playing), but in a more… realistic fashion if you will. As a result of this, I was able to travel the U.S., performing at events in multiple cities ranging from scripted and unscripted “war” scenarios all the way up to jousting. Out of this experience I came into learning many forms of combat including honor bound “this prey is mine for the glory of my name” combat all the way up to, “I shall fight this [insert insult word here]. Leave him be.” As I am unaware of the reason why the elites would fight in such a manner, this is one possible explanation. To be the lite which brought down a demon.
> Master Chief is wrapped in invincible plot armor, And the Arbiter was too during the event’s of Halo 2-3.
Not invincible, but I get your message.
> Plot armor know’s no bound’s. Be it Human or Covenant.
Plot armor, in our experiences, allowed us to die. Many times pending difficulty and player skill. With the game’s plot designs around giving players a learning curve to understand what they would be facing over and over again, (As in, when you entered an area, there was no random generation to reveal instead of elites, now you have brutes, etc.) as a result, players could predict what to do, where to go, and what clearly wasn’t working…
> > A hand can beat a trigger? those were more like cinamatic scenes just to make the Spartans look like total bad -Yoinks!-. Given if it was more based on the novel perspective, The Spartans would have had a lot more trouble handling the Elites in Combat. Hence, Noble six should have died with those couple of plasma shots he took to the chest when his sheilds were gone in the scenery. As for Master Chief, he is still pretty damn lucky to survive a fight against elites since he barly survives.
>
> Disable a hand, the person can’t push a button
>
> As for Spartans, they were trained to be the best suicidal offensive squads of the entire UNSC. Elites? They are honor bound warriors which train mind, body, and soul for a purpose and in the end? With sheer numbers, power of hand, and intellect proven time and again, basically forced the human race to the brink of earth. It’s a lot to know, and in war, they proved the small fights may have lost hundreds to thousands of their brothers, but in the end? They fought with new allies and won the war. This does not exclude the power, intellect, and accomplishments of the Spartans who fought and dropped those hundred to thousand elites though, and that is what is being focused on with Halo 4 MM: Making even better Spartans. To get back on track, why should elites be put into that environment?
Why do you continue to persist in trying to manipulate the Elite players such as I and many others into looking at your very small views? No matter what you will say, its not going to change the fact that this very thread is all about us wanting to be the species we have always have, and shall always be prefered to as the glory Sangheili within the Halo Universe for the years to come before us all. Even if some Spartans or god knows what wants to hate on us, let them come. It’s not going to make a difference in our views of how we see things.