No because it will turn into another Mangler fiasco, and I’ll bet 343 nerfs standard Needler shots in favour of this if the Melee becomes too powerful.
If we really want this, why not make another Needle based weapon?
Call it “The Riddler”
Banished origins
Banished design
Red volatile Needles
Uses the Supercombine melee concept
Fires semi auto shots which spread out like a shotgun, with 3 - 4 shots supercombining.
Primary fire fires a short range spread of Needles. It’s actually the red balmite shattering
Secondary fire melees with the Needle side to supercombine
I get what you mean with the whole Mangler thing, but the Mangler was an issue because it’s a tier 2 gun that 343 insists on treating like a tier 1. Ammo for the needler is incredibly scarce (tier-2) and the supercombine melee makes it moreso.
A new needle based weapon would be good too. I’m just applying the idea to the needler because of it’s visual design, but really any needler gun with the shard sticking out could take advantage of this idea.
I’d rather we have more weapons to round up the sandbox than adding to existing weapons. Each weapon in its original design will have a place if you don’t overload it from the get go with multiple utility/firing options.
I’m already a little peeved that the Shock Rifle is a Sniper that doubles as an anti vehicle.
Also the problem with the Mangler is that it’s really powerful both close and from a distance. Having a “Balmite Shotgun which can supercombine melee” is making it strictly a CQC oriented weapon, so its power balance is centered around the close range it dominates in.
Perhaps, but heavy turrets have their own drawbacks like slow movement, stationary when mounted, and the inability to use other abilities (sprint, melee, grenades, etc.) without dropping the gun.
I think this is disingenuous. The Shock Rifle EMP’s vehicles yes, but the S7 Sniper literally destroys vehicles.
Shoot a Banshee/Wasp twice with a Shock Rifle and you might force it too land for a bit. Shoot a Banshee/Wasp twice with a Sniper and that thing is blown out of the sky. Perhaps the issue is actually that the Shock Rifle is treated as a Tier 2 weapon when it should be a Tier 3 power weapon like the Sniper.
No the problem with the Mangler was never that it was powerful close while also being effective from a distance. That in itself is not a problem. The problem is exactly what @Windjammer19 said, the Mangler was too common.
The Needler is a Tier 2 Weapon, therefore it has a controlled spawn and making the Melee expend an entire reload worth of ammo limits the ammo even further. Therefore the one hit melee is balanced and controlled unlike the Mangler.
Let’s compare to the Shock Rifle, Hydra, Ravager, Bulldog & Heatwave. Only two of these weapons are CQC yet all of them are capable of the one-tap one-slap (unless any of these were changed after the nerf). Not only is the Needler currently not capable of one-tap one-slap but it isn’t capable of any taps + one-slap because the Needles don’t do traditional damage to help melee. The Needler is classified as an SMG (so a close range weapon) yet it loses to the AR in melee range. A super-combine melee would address this issue, plus it’s just cool.
This can be balanced any way you want as well. It has been suggested that the melee could break the Needles into the enemy for a delayed explosion. If this was the case you’d probably still die from a melee but you’d at least be taking the enemy with you.
I also made the suggestion for a Needle shotgun, it’s a great idea. However I disagree with this statement, I think before adding new weapons we should be looking at the existing sandbox first to avoid overloading the sandbox. Yes a Needle shotgun can exist as a special weapon or a variant, but does it really bring anything the Heatwave / Bulldog don’t already bring? Lore-wise, why should a Needle shotgun have a super-combine melee but not the Needler itself? It makes no sense.
Sure.
I made one back in my gearboxCE moding phase.
Essentially it looks like the “shell” of the needler but when thrown it spikes out the needles.
It has tracking so you can throw it then guide it vie red reticle or just hope its near enough to home into an enemy when thrown.
Once stuck the enemy has a blamite glass like area form and once shot explodes in a supercombine that can take out multiple targets.
However it shards over time and the dropped shards will home into any who walk by. Thus it can be used as an area denial tool also.
But also means you cant sit back once tagging an enemy but instead must push and engage them.
Keep in mind halo3s power drain did not exist yet. Nor did the halo3 beta trip mime that could booby trap vehicles.
Id deffinitely rework it now. Perhaps having a trophy systemesque utility to block other nades rather than the equipmemt esque area denial.
Maybe make homing only work on unsheilded spartans and focusing more on it being a guided grenade.
And have it do a 2 tier explosion. One that has a small radius that “plants” needles like the spike grenade does spikes but the needles themselves explode after the initial detonation.
What I really like about this concept is how it incoporates a core gameplay aspect from Quantum Break. Idk if either of you have played it, but basically you have time manipulation powers. One of those powers lets you freeze enemies in a bubble of slowness for a few seconds. While they are in that bunble you can’t shoot them… yet. Instead any bullets you fire at them get slowed down as well. And when time is restored? All the bullet hit them at once. Effectively turning you pistol into a shot gun.
The Needler’s trademark is stacking individually low-damage rounds and combining them for one big attack. Same idea. What this Breacher does is bypass the “individual stacking” part and just blast 20-something needles into your face.
I think this Breacher Shotgun Needler thing could squeeze into the shotgun class by:
Not firing hitscan ammo like the Bulldog or Needle Rifle
Not firing bouncing/ricocheting rounds like the Heatwave
But firing somewhat slow moving rounds like the Heatwave that track slightly.
Basically it’s a shotgun that’s harder to miss with. You could even give it more range (as in the needles travel farther, since it would need Red Reticle Range to get the tracking anyways). Now that I think of it, this could even be the solution the Bulldog.
The M90 does what it usually does.
The Heatwave bounces and allow control over the spread pattern.
The Breacher has longer range, tighter spread and less damage (2-shot for a supercombine) than the M90, but it gains tracking at super close ranges. It would take the spot of the Bulldog.
What do you think about this?
I doubt it. It’s basically just and auto-aim gun.
The only variant that actually added something to the needler was the Talon of the Lost which also fired red needles (!!!) and its needles could pierce and were pretty effective against hunters and even vehicles. Like I said here…
…Needles are usually very ineffective for armor, but give an upgraded variant that ability makes it more powerful by making it more viable in more situations. In what situation would you rather have the Pinpoint Needler over a a regular one? Sure it can fire over objects, but that’s about it.
I explained that the Needler Shotgun will use more volatile Needles than the Needler. These probably won’t be able to home but instead upon firing it splinters and shatters, showering the target in shards.
I always thought a supercombine melee would be sweet as well, but like others have said, maybe just a variant, because it could change the weapon’s sandbox too much.
Gotcha thank you for clarifying for me. I suppose that could make sense, but I still feel like the basic Needler could have this ability. Instead of shooting someone with blamite shards you’re just physically hitting someone with them… IMO this should have the same effect leading to a super-combine, the logic is there I think.
I don’t understand why change is seen as a bad thing? I can think of about 14 additional weapons that could be added to the official Halo sandbox (not just variants) but this would be adding heavy change to the sandbox… does this make it a bad thing?
I think as long as the change is properly implemented (balanced), makes sense lore-wise, and adds depth / functionality then why not? The idea for a melee super-combine is all of those things, it only adds to what makes the Needler a special weapon IMO.
Laser-guided needles (if I understood you correctly) sound like an interesting idea. Depending on the speed at with the needles move, you could probably “drag” them around with you to surprise an enemy around a corner.
I like the idea of physically block an area. Reminds me of Mei’s ice walls in Overwatch. H3’s Deployable Cover was capable of this on a much smaller scale. Obviously it didn’t catch on, but the idea has some weight. Especially if a gun could do this as an alt-fire or something.
That could certainly happen. That’s why I recommended that it should only be available when the magazine is full. You’d have to reload it in the middle of a fight if you wanted to use it. And you can also just fire a single round to “un-prime” the supercombine melee if you don’t want to use it. And a needler with only 25 rounds or less is just simply incapable of using the ability.
The game could even use a different melee animation depending on ammo capacity. Super-combine melee with a full reload and just a standard punch melee if there isn’t enough for a super-combine.
The Needler in Infinite in an open and unobstructed space is unbeatable. This weapon went from a skill weapon that was funny to use to an instakill every time. It has to get fixed. It’s simply too powerful.
I agree that the S7 is both a sniper and an anti-vehicle gun, but I’d argue that getting EMP’d and subsequently hijacked is a much worse outcome. I’d rather die in my tank/wasp then let the enemy get it.
And personally I don’t really like that the Shock Rifle is a 1-shot kill. I feel it takes away from its other more defining traits (chain damage, EMP). But in general I think the shock weapons need to be rethought, but that’s a conversation for another time.
The Needler already has 2 melees (across the franchise) which is what inspired this idea. The original CE animation swings with the shards out and the other animation hits with the bottom of the gun.
The main point is the Shock Rifle is not anymore anti-vehicle than the S7 Sniper.
I may have misinterpreted this as a comparison to the S7 Sniper when maybe you were just talking about Sniper Rifles in general (could be the Stalker Rifle). I think the Shock Rifle is balanced as an alternative to the S7 Sniper but it’s OP compared to the Stalker Rifle.
@Windjammer19 sorry I somehow missed your reply to the Needle Breacher earlier.
All of your thoughts are great, I’m 100% on board with a Needle Shotgun of some sort. I don’t know if this shotgun would be a part of the core sandbox or not to be honest, that part is relative to everyone’s own perspective on how many shotguns & needle based weapons we should have, but it should absolutely be in the game IMO.
The power drain and inciniary grenade in halo 3, h4 and 5s promethean grenades and ravager all tried to fill this roll.
Tracking on the needler has been known to have some red reticle direction and weve seen many reqs in H5G use laser guidence but i think it would make for a unique grenade.
Side: i always wanted the deploy cover to be made slightly larger and more angled to allow it to be a ramp as well as cover. Give it a more interesting and utile interaction with the sandbox.
And have wondered how it would play if it could be moved by toggling zoom to “interface” with the cover and make it mobile. Another t8me another discussion perhaps.