SANDBOX: Needler

Games Halo Infinite
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NOTE: This is a continuation of a series of sandbox discussion threads that user @Shanesaw9 has been leading. He wanted other user to make their own discussions as well, so I’m taking him up on it.

The purpose of these discussions (according to Shanesaw) is to examine Halo: Infinite’s weapons, determine their role, and suggest lore-friendly adjustments that could be beneficial to the game in either a competitive or social setting.

I’ve decided to focus on the Needler and it’s unique ammo type.

Needler

The Needler has been around since players first crashed onto the surface of Installation 04, however, it has remained mostly untouched in terms of its function an identity. The Needler has always be defined by a few key traits:

  • Automatic fire mode
  • Slow-moving, homing projectiles
  • “Supercombine”
  • Weird reload/Ammo on top of the gun
  • Pink

Variants and alterations to the Needler have usually messed with ammo (H2’s dual-wielding), fire rate (H5’s Hailstorm variant), and tracking strength (across all games). The change I’m proposing is a combination of melee, supercombine and ammo.

Keeping in line with Halo Infinite’s more intricate melee system, I wanted to take advantage of the Needler’s unintentional bayonets, the crystals on the top. The Needlers melee animation show the spartan hitting the enemy with all of those needles and I think that should matter.

The Supercombine Melee!

When a needler has full ammo, and punches will strike with the top of the gun, resulting in a supercombine explosion, killing the enemy. This also expends all of the ammo in the gun forcing a reload after. This is good for balancing for a few reasons:

  1. It can only be done with a full magazine. This means you must have at least 26 rounds left as well as have them loaded to attempt this.
  2. The ammo expenditure is greater than just shooting them. The Needler only needs 13 rounds to supercombine, but this melee buff requires all 26.
  3. Using all of the ammo forces a reload, so it can’t be used for cheap multi-kills etc.
  4. The melee would obviously still loses to swords and hammers.
  5. *Possibly give the supercombine minor splash damage that can hurt the user.

Does adding the supercombine melee make the gun more interesting?

  • I’d say yes.

Does this ad more depth to the Needlers gameplay?

  • Yes, in CQC and when trying to manage ammo.

Does this break gameplay balance?

  • No, See above.

Does this fit the lore/theme of the weapon?

  • The lore seems to suggest that the Subanese crystals undergo a chemical change before being fired. However, I believe a variant of the Needler could be made that uses unstable crystals for this purpose. As for the theme of the gun? It’s ammo that explodes, so yes.

Thoughts?

Also what are your thoughts on a needle-based grenade? We need more blamite weapons and equipment.

10 Likes
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This sounds cool. Like that brute plasma rifle variation “Scale of Soirapt” from Halo 5.

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Great job @Windjammer19 , I absolutely LOVE this idea.

Not only does it make the Needler cooler (while keeping everything balanced as you outlined above), but it also addresses a weakness of the Needler. Since the Needler lacks traditional damage opting for a super-combine it often loses melee battles to the AR, this change would give the Needler’s melee a proper function. Awesome suggestion!

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I dont want to oversaturste the pink mist. Thebneedler is iconic.
I like this as a varient.
The onky 2 blamite weapons ive wanted is a homing nade that must be shot to detonate and a needle gauntlet.
But this essential incorperates the gauntlet minus some quirks.

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Totally didn’t even think of that. But I loved the little gun in warzone. In general I hope more guns have weird melee quirks in the future.

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Thanks :slight_smile:

Yeah Needles really need to be listed as their own damage type since they don’t function the same as kinetic weapons (ignore shield damage (pierce straight to health), bounce off armor like Hunters).

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Could you elaborate on this more? This sounds pretty cool. A homing grenade would be like nothing we’ve seen in Halo.

My idea for a needler grenade was basically a spike grenade, but a direct stick causes a supercombine and an indirect hit bounces needles around the area that can cause a supercombine if enough land.

1 Like
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I’m on board for the super-combine melee, although I’m not sure if requiring all the ammo is necessary. I think if 13 needles are left in the clip then a super-combine melee is possible, but a single melee should always empty the clip and force a reload. The more needles that go into the melee, the larger the explosion should be.

4 Likes
9

A Needle Grenade would be a cool addition.

I’m envisioning a hybrid between the frag and dynamo grenades.

Like a frag it will explode after a bounce, releasing a cloud of needles that will lock on to a single target. If enough needles reach the target, a super-combine will result killing the player.

The result would be a grenade that is super deadly in open space like the Needler, but if the target is able to duck around a corner then they will escape impending doom.

2 Likes
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Yes, only 13 are needed when firing the gun, but my reasoning for requiring 26 needles is:

  1. To prevent cheap melee multi-kills

Your suggestion here does keep this balance in check though.

  1. To communicate very clearly when a supercombine melee is available. I think simply having a full magazine (which is represented on the HUD and the gun) would be more effective than having a fluid range of 13+ to 26.

The explosion getting bigger depending on the number of needles that supercombine is interesting, but it may need to be limited since any attack that does too much self-harm wouldn’t be ideal and could lead to a lot of accidental suicides. Maybe a delayed explosion could work? Like a melee to imbed the needles then when the new needles pop out after reloading, the ones in you opponent explode (like C4 or something).

That’s sounds awesome!

Two questions:

  1. Does each needle just home in on the nearest target? As in could the needles split up to kill 2 spartans instead of 1?

  2. Can the needles from the grenade stack with a needler?

    • So say you land 6 needles on a player and they run and hid behind cover. Then you throw your needle grenade and land 7 more needles. Would that be enough for a supercombine?

In know I said 2 but here’s a 3rd question: How do feel about the needle grenade exploding in mid air after a short fuse instead of bouncing?

Relying on a bounce means it will usually settle on the ground and some of the needles will just shatter against the floor. However, throwing it into the air would allow for more needles to emerge and give the needles an easier path to their target (since overhead cover isn’t very common).

3 Likes
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Glad you like my suggestions!

  1. Yes, the needles would home in on the nearest target. I was thinking there would be 13ish needles per grenade. This way it’s not too difficult to escape being killed.

  2. Yes, it can be combined with the Needler to clean up kills.

  3. Think of it like the frag, you can bounce it off any surface. It’s not that difficult to get a frag to blow up mid-air.

The other option I was thinking of is that it could detonate on impact, similar to the Pulse Grenade in Halo 4. The difference here is if you hit someone direct they explode into a big pink cloud.

1 Like
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The only thing I’d like a variant of that hasn’t really been done yet is one that can cause super combines on the environment.

Like where if a bunch of needles were fired into a wall or floor very close to each other an explosion would happen at that spot. They wouldn’t have to hit players to super combine

It’s unique feature would be niche useful at best tbh. Most kills would probably still be a regular super combine on the player.

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Just had a crazy thought…

The Skewer would be so much cooler if it fired a giant shard of Blamite!

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That’s true, but that wouldn’t really be an option in more open areas where there’s few tall surfaces like a BTB map or Behemoth for example.

What about the ability to cook the grenade? So you can bounce it around a corner or cook it to so you can get it to explode mid-air easier.

Another option is to make it like a Bouncing Betty where it settles on the ground then pops up and fires its needles in a circle. So basically it keeps its ability to be bounced around corners but also get that aerial boost that would help it fill its role better.

What do you think about this?

An impact grenade would be interesting since Halo doesn’t any right now.

Yeah especially since the Volatile variant in Campaign explodes on impact. And you could even justify it have a homing feature since Blamite usually tracks. Also it would look prettier.

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Maybe this could be implemented with a “Needle Cannon” somehow. A detachable turret that fires red needles which can super-combine with vehicles (or in this case any object in the environment).

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So something like the Sticky Detonator from H4? Shoot it at the environment and chose when it explodes or let it blow after a set time?

The White Scar Plasma Caster was sort of like what you described, but it’s more of a proximity mine.

The ability to hurt players via shooting at environmental objects is very in line with what the shock weapons do, but being able to shoot anywhere to lay a trap is something that I feel they underperform at.

Do you think your idea could work as a Blamite Heavy Machine gun? Like you said, most kills would likely come from direct fire, but a gun with a large magazine or unlimited ammo (mounted turrets) could led well to “missing” shots and sticking needles into surfaces.

Beat me to it :skull:

Red like the needles on the Sentinel Enforcers in H2?

1 Like
17

Hear me out.

  • Short range Needler Shotgun Power Weapon

  • Needler Frag Grenade

  • Needles should ricochet off of surfaces again like older games and they should stay embedded longer and trigger a proximity supercombine if an enemy is covered in enough needles as they run past embedded ones close to them

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100%. You may have already brought something like this up when we were discussing LMG’s in another thread (likely where I got it from). A detachable turret is the perfect way to go for this I think.

Something I didn’t do with the other threads I made was discuss weapon variants but I think variants are actually really important to discuss.

I feel like the Pinpoint Needler in Halo Infinite lacks creativity… it’s just a Needler with a lock-on and extremely agressive homing (I’m not sure where the fun is in that gameplay wise). I had an idea for a Needler variant to be repurposed as a fully automatic shotgun. This shotgun would fire spreads of blamite (no homing) that quickly supercombine at close range while the spread is less accurate over range. Could call it the Shattershot (a play off of the Scattershot and the Needler shards).

I think the super-combine melee is a great addition to the actual Needler itself but it would definitely lend itself nicely to a Shotgun variant as well.

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I just had the same thought (see my post right below yours). I was going for more of a weapon variant than an official power weapon with my suggestion, but search “Halo Infinite NEEDLE BREACHER” on youtube for a cool design concept for a Double-Barrel Needler Shotgun power weapon.

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Holy crap, that’s like an S tier version of what I was thinking!