EDIT: I have no problem with rushes. I rush sometimes. This is not a post complaining about rushing.
Hear me out:
As I’ve played around in the ranks, I’ve come to realize that rushing is the only viable option for either winning the early game or making it last to mid.
I’ve heard players say “rush is a risk. if it fails, you’re done.” I have so rarely seen this be the case. If a players rushes with marine/grunt, JR/Chopper, or leader, and the opponent doesn’t have their own rush going, then the non-rusher will lose. Right?
Here’s why: the rusher can EASILY push tons of units (go all supply or one power w/ rest supply). Doing so, they likely get map control, which is huge. If the opponent doesn’t make lots of units too, they have to start doing so when they see the rush coming. They might also go turrets. Then, they’re cranking out their eco to defend. Then, they lose map control, they may last for a bit by turtling, but will ultimately become overwhelmed because the opponent has another base, some mini bases, and maybe destroyed a building or two.
Again, looking for constructive strategies, not trying to be a jerk.
-Also, maybe I/we should stop calling it “rushing” and call it “T1 Battles,” because the game is so geared towards it.
I build an initial army of T1 units either marine/flamer or all Marines. If they expend all their units at your base against this small army and a turrets you take a second base and go for power nodes. You will be ahead in energy and tech and therefore have a stronger army. If they fall back go for mini bases. If you don’t build units and rely on turrets only you are going to lose map control and the scenario you described will unfold.
> 2535408943928144;2:
> This is an RTS… build units…
@ OP: You should be trying to pump out units too.
If you don’t have an army at 30 minutes (just lost a fight) and the opponent rolls in with their units and kills your bases, you can’t do anything because you do not have an army.
If you don’t have an army at 10 minutes (decided to just build NOTHING) and the opponent rolls in with their units and kills your base, you can’t do anything because you do not have an army.
It does not matter in either scenario that you had 4 turrets built. The game has phases, how you choose to play through them determines if you will win or not. If you’re going to take a risk and not build and army, then if you lose to your opponent who decided to build an army, that’s on you.
> 2533274796391115;1:
> Hear me out:
> As I’ve played around in the ranks, I’ve come to realize that rushing is the only viable option for either winning the early game or making it last to mid.
>
> I’ve heard players say “rush is a risk. if it fails, you’re done.” I have so rarely seen this be the case. If a players rushes with marine/grunt, JR/Chopper, or leader, and the opponent doesn’t have their own rush going, then the non-rusher will lose. Right?
> Here’s why: the rusher can EASILY push tons of units (go all supply or one power w/ rest supply). Doing so, they likely get map control, which is huge. If the opponent doesn’t make lots of units too, they have to start doing so when they see the rush coming. They might also go turrets. Then, they’re cranking out their eco to defend. Then, they lose map control, they may last for a bit by turtling, but will ultimately become overwhelmed because the opponent has another base, some mini bases, and maybe destroyed a building or two.
>
> If I’m wrong, please explain to me how you successfully stop a rush and win without rushing yourself.
> Please try to avoid “get gud,” “use a turret,” or “wait for locusts.” That may work against newer players, but any good player will beat that.
>
> Again, looking for constructive strategies, not trying to be a jerk.
>
> -Also, maybe I/we should stop calling it “rushing” and call it “T1 Battles,” because the game is so geared towards it.
Rushing is but one option of three broad ones (teching, turtling, and rushing) and one is “super effective” and “not very effective” to another respectively. Turtling beats rushing, rushing beats teching, and teching beats turtling. Now all this is ofcourse assuming the match is played against evenly skilled opponents who know how to execute such strats properly.
I think your problem is you don’t know how to turtle effectively. If you would then you would be able to pump so many better units than the rusher soon after you hit tech 2 then you should be able to quickly regain map control with such army then go from there.
> 2533274820034368;7:
> matters who your fighting but its more about getting a counter built early so I can play the mid game, I dont really rush anymore
Certain leaders I will rush early. Atriox, Shipmaster, anders. If you play as Isabel or forge I’ll probably leave you alone early. Once the banished get to T2 it’s a locust bonanza. Anders isn’t as insane as she used to, but sentinals are still a PITA. I don’t like rushing but it’s a good strategy. Even if you don’t destroy the base, taking down a couple buildings and making the other players waste resources just allows me to get to T2 and expand. It sucks but that’s kind of how the game is going. I never used to rush but now it’s rush or be rushed.
Rushing isn’t a problem. People using 1 strategy and refusing to scout is a problem. A single scout and you can slurp up a lot of the crates on a map, you can look for enemy units and garrisons or look at their base construction. The fact that they are the fastest unit you can build should be indication of their usefulness at gathering crucial intel, which is the best way to turn the tables on a rush. And to top it off they come in three styles and six different flavors, so there’s a scout to suit everyone!
All jokes aside, i could probably count on my fingers how many times my base has been scouted early game. Unfortunately this is a simple issue that a large amount of people seem unable/unwilling to change.
> 2535408943928144;2:
> This is an RTS… build units…
> 2533274821521504;6:
> The fighting starts at the 0:00 mark.
> 2533274813724630;4:
> > 2535408943928144;2:
> > This is an RTS… build units…
>
> @ OP: You should be trying to pump out units too.
> If you don’t have an army at 30 minutes (just lost a fight) and the opponent rolls in with their units and kills your bases, you can’t do anything because you do not have an army.
> If you don’t have an army at 10 minutes (decided to just build NOTHING) and the opponent rolls in with their units and kills your base, you can’t do anything because you do not have an army.
> It does not matter in either scenario that you had 4 turrets built. The game has phases, how you choose to play through them determines if you will win or not. If you’re going to take a risk and not build and army, then if you lose to your opponent who decided to build an army, that’s on you.
CLARIFICATION:
Because the consensus seems to be that I was complaining about rushes…or asking how to counter rushes…or that I was not building units…
None of that was the case, but (after rereading the post, I can see why people were interpreting that). This post was meant to get some feedback about how people argue that “if you rush and it fails, you’re going to lose” That was the point I wanted to discuss.
I brought this up because in other RTS games, a failed rush will often lead to a failed game. I find this not to be the case in HW2, and was looking for some constructive criticism about that.
But, thanks for jumping to sarcasm.
> 2533274803538435;15:
> Rushing isn’t a problem. People using 1 strategy and refusing to scout is a problem. A single scout and you can slurp up a lot of the crates on a map, you can look for enemy units and garrisons or look at their base construction. The fact that they are the fastest unit you can build should be indication of their usefulness at gathering crucial intel, which is the best way to turn the tables on a rush. And to top it off they come in three styles and six different flavors, so there’s a scout to suit everyone!
>
> All jokes aside, i could probably count on my fingers how many times my base has been scouted early game. Unfortunately this is a simple issue that a large amount of people seem unable/unwilling to change.
Thanks for your post man. I do scout, a lot. I rush sometimes too. I don’t think that rushing is any sort of problem.
I tried to clarify that better in the initial post, but maybe I should rewrite it.
> 2533274796391115;16:
> > 2535408943928144;2:
> > This is an RTS… build units…
>
>
>
> > 2533274821521504;6:
> > The fighting starts at the 0:00 mark.
>
>
>
> > 2533274813724630;4:
> > > 2535408943928144;2:
> > > This is an RTS… build units…
> >
> > @ OP: You should be trying to pump out units too.
> > If you don’t have an army at 30 minutes (just lost a fight) and the opponent rolls in with their units and kills your bases, you can’t do anything because you do not have an army.
> > If you don’t have an army at 10 minutes (decided to just build NOTHING) and the opponent rolls in with their units and kills your base, you can’t do anything because you do not have an army.
> > It does not matter in either scenario that you had 4 turrets built. The game has phases, how you choose to play through them determines if you will win or not. If you’re going to take a risk and not build and army, then if you lose to your opponent who decided to build an army, that’s on you.
>
> CLARIFICATION:
> Because the consensus seems to be that I was complaining about rushes…or asking how to counter rushes…or that I was not building units…
>
> None of that was the case. This post was meant to get some feedback about how people have chosen NOT to rush and have succeeded against players that do rush. The main theory being that IF YOU RUSH IN THIS GAME IT WILL NOT AFFECT YOU NEGATIVELY. That was the point I wanted to discuss.
> I brought this up because in other RTS games, a failed rush will often lead to a failed game. I find this not to be the case in HW2, and was looking for some constructive criticism about that.
> But, thanks for jumping to sarcasm.
That is the problem every other game there is some sort of a negative effect this game there is zero negative effect only downfall is you can’t afford 4 turrents in the beginning of game that is literally the only negitive