Technology has advanced so much since Halo Wars was made in 2009, 343i has stated that the designs for Cutter and Anders look different because “they are different”. The standards for modern gaming calls for the use of performance capture using real actors to portray the characters in the video game’s world. Well to that I say Blam! (Yeah, that’s right, I typed Blam myself)
After watching “Rogue One A Star Wars Story” (SPOILERS if you haven’t seen it) we clearly see brilliant use of performance capture to recreate Tarkin and young Princess Leia: one of which is no longer alive and the other isn’t wearing slave outfits these days. So why can’t they overlay the original character designs from Halo Wars to the actors’ faces in Halo Wars 2? It can’t possibly be that hard unless they managed to find an actor who has a striking resemblance to Atriox, or any Sangheilli from Halo 2 Anniversary because you can bet those were also performed by real actors. They do it with Master Chief all time, the actor doesn’t wear a helmet, they put it afterwards, so what’s the deal? Couldn’t they at least get an older looking gentlemen to play Cutter? They didn’t try at all to get the voice right.
I already know there’s someone who is going to say that Tarkin’s cgi face doesn’t look great. Even if that were true, that’s irrelevant because that was a cgi character standing next to real people, it would look great in a video game because the whole environment is animated.
Despite all this, I do want to make it clear that I’m unbelievably excited for Halo Wars 2, The original game is one of my favorite in the series which is why I feel so passionately about the changes they’ve made to Cutter and Anders. The beauty of animation is that characters can live on beyond the actor who plays it. This isn’t like trying re cast Han Solo because Harrison Ford is too old to play the character anymore, in animation you shouldn’t have to worry about things like this. Come on 343. I love ya, I really do (more than most people) but sometimes you just make it really hard to defend you.
yeah… no…
You really have no idea how much effort went into that don’t you?
You really don’t know how all of the behind the scene works… It took them a lot of effort and cost a lot apparently… so… And it was a way different situation too so…
Not really no.
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> yeah… no…
> You really have no idea how much effort went into that don’t you?
>
> You really don’t know how all of the behind the scene works… It took them a lot of effort and cost a lot apparently… so… And it was a way different situation too so…
> Not really no.
No offense, but that was a really poorly worded counter-response to the OP. I’d agree that the situations are different, but it’s hard to really make up what you are talking about as far as effort means. You mean the facial mapping for Rogue One or for HalO Wars 2? Because I’m sure both methods involve a lot of effort, but I think the folks behind Halo Wars 2 could have done a better job at making the appearances look better for Anders and Cutter.
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> > 2533274809220485;2:
> > yeah… no…
> > You really have no idea how much effort went into that don’t you?
> >
> > You really don’t know how all of the behind the scene works… It took them a lot of effort and cost a lot apparently… so… And it was a way different situation too so…
> > Not really no.
>
> No offense, but that was a really poorly worded counter-response to the OP. I’d agree that the situations are different, but it’s hard to really make up what you are talking about as far as effort means. You mean the facial mapping for Rogue One or for HalO Wars 2? Because I’m sure both methods involve a lot of effort, but I think the folks behind Halo Wars 2 could have done a better job at making the appearances look better for Anders and Cutter.
I’m tired.
Here’s the video that explains the process:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-KJGLRmt0w
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> yeah… no…
> You really have no idea how much effort went into that don’t you?
>
> You really don’t know how all of the behind the scene works… It took them a lot of effort and cost a lot apparently… so… And it was a way different situation too so…
> Not really no.
Absolutely it took more work and cost more to recreate Tarkin and Leia, those were real people that they had to get perfect for a live action setting. Cutter and Anders? Not real people, they wouldn’t have to go through all that trouble to get it just right. You probably didn’t read my entire post so I’ll say it again: if they can overlay a Sangheili’s face over a human actor’s face there is no excuse why they can’t make Cutter and Anders’ face look like they should.
Two major differences that probably account for this: budget and permission.
For Rogue One, it had a $200 million budget. I’m sure a fair chunk of that went into providing the CGI likeness for those characters. Halo Wars 2 development cost is probably nowhere near $200 million.
As for permission, well, it stands to reason that Carrie Fisher would give permission for her likeness to be used in a Star Wars film. Of course, just having her act as normal would have not been sufficient; she is far too old for any makeup to make her look the age Leia was supposed to be. CGI was the only option. As for Tarkin, well, the actor who originally play Tarkin is dead (has been for awhile), so that either means the studio didn’t need permission for his likeness or his estate gave the studio permission.
With Halo Wars 2, we don’t know why original actors aren’t reprising their role. But since original Cutter wasn’t created using facial capture, and facial capture will be used for Cutter in HW2, it stands to reason that there would be some visual differences. Is it possible that they could take the old character models and overlay them for the new versions of the characters? Sure, probably. But since they are upgrading to facial capture, I’m betting the desire is to let the technology speak for itself. Also, maybe the new actors for Cutter and Anders want their likeness to be depicted, and would have said no to their likeness being covered by old character models.
To say that Cutter and Ander’s new faces are invalidated by Rogue One is false. There are plenty of reasons beyond technological capability at work.
Cutter and Anders’ faces arent the same because their actor’ schedules conflicted with other projects they had gong on. I read that somewhere a while back.
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> Two major differences that probably account for this: budget and permission.
> For Rogue One, it had a $200 million budget. I’m sure a fair chunk of that went into providing the CGI likeness for those characters. Halo Wars 2 development cost is probably nowhere near $200 million.
> As for permission, well, it stands to reason that Carrie Fisher would give permission for her likeness to be used in a Star Wars film. Of course, just having her act as normal would have not been sufficient; she is far too old for any makeup to make her look the age Leia was supposed to be. CGI was the only option. As for Tarkin, well, the actor who originally play Tarkin is dead (has been for awhile), so that either means the studio didn’t need permission for his likeness or his estate gave the studio permission.
> With Halo Wars 2, we don’t know why original actors aren’t reprising their role. But since original Cutter wasn’t created using facial capture, and facial capture will be used for Cutter in HW2, it stands to reason that there would be some visual differences. Is it possible that they could take the old character models and overlay them for the new versions of the characters? Sure, probably. But since they are upgrading to facial capture, I’m betting the desire is to let the technology speak for itself. Also, maybe the new actors for Cutter and Anders want their likeness to be depicted, and would have said no to their likeness being covered by old character models.
> To say that Cutter and Ander’s new faces are invalidated by Rogue One is false. There are plenty of reasons beyond technological capability at work.
They use facial capture technology for Atriox, all Sangheili, and even Master Chief so it is clear that it’s not a matter of having as big a budget as Rogue One since they are already capable of altering the actor’s face to fit the characters. For permission, that’s not a problem because the original Halo Wars character designs were not based on real people. And I find it hard to believe that the actors would hold the developers hostage and not give them permission to change their faces, it’s not up for them to decide and they’re not big enough actors to have that kind of power.
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> Cutter and Anders’ faces arent the same because their actor’ schedules conflicted with other projects they had gong on. I read that somewhere a while back.
Cutter and Anders were not based on real people nor were they performed by real actors so scheduling conflicts is not the problem. I wouldn’t mind if they changed voice actors, but they could have at least gotten someone who sounds like Cutter.
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> > Two major differences that probably account for this: budget and permission.
> > For Rogue One, it had a $200 million budget. I’m sure a fair chunk of that went into providing the CGI likeness for those characters. Halo Wars 2 development cost is probably nowhere near $200 million.
> > As for permission, well, it stands to reason that Carrie Fisher would give permission for her likeness to be used in a Star Wars film. Of course, just having her act as normal would have not been sufficient; she is far too old for any makeup to make her look the age Leia was supposed to be. CGI was the only option. As for Tarkin, well, the actor who originally play Tarkin is dead (has been for awhile), so that either means the studio didn’t need permission for his likeness or his estate gave the studio permission.
> > With Halo Wars 2, we don’t know why original actors aren’t reprising their role. But since original Cutter wasn’t created using facial capture, and facial capture will be used for Cutter in HW2, it stands to reason that there would be some visual differences. Is it possible that they could take the old character models and overlay them for the new versions of the characters? Sure, probably. But since they are upgrading to facial capture, I’m betting the desire is to let the technology speak for itself. Also, maybe the new actors for Cutter and Anders want their likeness to be depicted, and would have said no to their likeness being covered by old character models.
> > To say that Cutter and Ander’s new faces are invalidated by Rogue One is false. There are plenty of reasons beyond technological capability at work.
>
> They use facial capture technology for Atriox, all Sangheili, and even Master Chief so it is clear that it’s not a matter of having as big a budget as Rogue One since they are already capable of altering the actor’s face to fit the characters. For permission, that’s not a problem because the original Halo Wars character designs were not based on real people. And I find it hard to believe that the actors would hold the developers hostage and not give them permission to change their faces, it’s not up for them to decide and they’re not big enough actors to have that kind of power.
It is up to them to decide if they want to take the job. If the actor sees their likeness won’t be represented, they can choose not to take the job.
Also, facial capture is not as expensive as facial capture plus CGI overlay. Besides, maybe they wanted to use facial capture in Halo Wars 1, but were limitations to the development the game that prevented it (budget, time, etc.).
Besides, you act like character design differences are new to Halo. Compare Cortana from each game to the next. Look at Johnson from CE, to 2, to 3. Look at freakin’ Buck. Character designs change all the time, because of artistic license and better technology. It’s not invalidated just because you think the old look should continue.
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> > > Two major differences that probably account for this: budget and permission.
> > > For Rogue One, it had a $200 million budget. I’m sure a fair chunk of that went into providing the CGI likeness for those characters. Halo Wars 2 development cost is probably nowhere near $200 million.
> > > As for permission, well, it stands to reason that Carrie Fisher would give permission for her likeness to be used in a Star Wars film. Of course, just having her act as normal would have not been sufficient; she is far too old for any makeup to make her look the age Leia was supposed to be. CGI was the only option. As for Tarkin, well, the actor who originally play Tarkin is dead (has been for awhile), so that either means the studio didn’t need permission for his likeness or his estate gave the studio permission.
> > > With Halo Wars 2, we don’t know why original actors aren’t reprising their role. But since original Cutter wasn’t created using facial capture, and facial capture will be used for Cutter in HW2, it stands to reason that there would be some visual differences. Is it possible that they could take the old character models and overlay them for the new versions of the characters? Sure, probably. But since they are upgrading to facial capture, I’m betting the desire is to let the technology speak for itself. Also, maybe the new actors for Cutter and Anders want their likeness to be depicted, and would have said no to their likeness being covered by old character models.
> > > To say that Cutter and Ander’s new faces are invalidated by Rogue One is false. There are plenty of reasons beyond technological capability at work.
> >
> > They use facial capture technology for Atriox, all Sangheili, and even Master Chief so it is clear that it’s not a matter of having as big a budget as Rogue One since they are already capable of altering the actor’s face to fit the characters. For permission, that’s not a problem because the original Halo Wars character designs were not based on real people. And I find it hard to believe that the actors would hold the developers hostage and not give them permission to change their faces, it’s not up for them to decide and they’re not big enough actors to have that kind of power.
>
> It is up to them to decide if they want to take the job. If the actor sees their likeness won’t be represented, they can choose not to take the job.
> Also, facial capture is not as expensive as facial capture plus CGI overlay. Besides, maybe they wanted to use facial capture in Halo Wars 1, but were limitations to the development the game that prevented it (budget, time, etc.).
> Besides, you act like character design differences are new to Halo. Compare Cortana from each game to the next. Look at Johnson from CE, to 2, to 3. Look at freakin’ Buck. Character designs change all the time, because of artistic license and better technology. It’s not invalidated just because you think the old look should continue.
So it’s more expensive to put a different human face on top of a human actor’s face but it’s cheap to put a Sangheili’s split jaw face on top of a human actor’s face? And I am well aware that they have changed character face designs before, I never said I wasn’t bothered by those but at least they kept the spirit of the character the same with every new game. Anders looks different but that one I can live with because she still looks like Anders; Cutter on the other hand is a completely different person with an entirely different voice. They don’t look or sound anything alike. Comparing Johnson in Halo 2 and Halo 3, yeah they look different but the spirit of the character is still there. Cortana changes in every Halo game but I can look at each new iteration of Cortana and definitively tell you, “yeah, that’s Cortana” Seeing Cutter for the first time in that first teaser I knew for sure that couldn’t possibly be Cutter and believed we were gonna get a new character. But it turns out that really was supposed to be Captain Cutter. There is no excuse for that for the reasons I’ve stated above.
And I still fail to see how an actor would refuse a job because they’re face would be altered. Someone offers them an acting gig they’re going to take it because it pays money. Like I said, they’re not big enough actors to just pass on something like this. They seemed to cast an actor for Atriox just fine and he looks like a hulking monster.
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> > > > Two major differences that probably account for this: budget and permission.
> > > > For Rogue One, it had a $200 million budget. I’m sure a fair chunk of that went into providing the CGI likeness for those characters. Halo Wars 2 development cost is probably nowhere near $200 million.
> > > > As for permission, well, it stands to reason that Carrie Fisher would give permission for her likeness to be used in a Star Wars film. Of course, just having her act as normal would have not been sufficient; she is far too old for any makeup to make her look the age Leia was supposed to be. CGI was the only option. As for Tarkin, well, the actor who originally play Tarkin is dead (has been for awhile), so that either means the studio didn’t need permission for his likeness or his estate gave the studio permission.
> > > > With Halo Wars 2, we don’t know why original actors aren’t reprising their role. But since original Cutter wasn’t created using facial capture, and facial capture will be used for Cutter in HW2, it stands to reason that there would be some visual differences. Is it possible that they could take the old character models and overlay them for the new versions of the characters? Sure, probably. But since they are upgrading to facial capture, I’m betting the desire is to let the technology speak for itself. Also, maybe the new actors for Cutter and Anders want their likeness to be depicted, and would have said no to their likeness being covered by old character models.
> > > > To say that Cutter and Ander’s new faces are invalidated by Rogue One is false. There are plenty of reasons beyond technological capability at work.
> > >
> > > They use facial capture technology for Atriox, all Sangheili, and even Master Chief so it is clear that it’s not a matter of having as big a budget as Rogue One since they are already capable of altering the actor’s face to fit the characters. For permission, that’s not a problem because the original Halo Wars character designs were not based on real people. And I find it hard to believe that the actors would hold the developers hostage and not give them permission to change their faces, it’s not up for them to decide and they’re not big enough actors to have that kind of power.
> >
> > It is up to them to decide if they want to take the job. If the actor sees their likeness won’t be represented, they can choose not to take the job.
> > Also, facial capture is not as expensive as facial capture plus CGI overlay. Besides, maybe they wanted to use facial capture in Halo Wars 1, but were limitations to the development the game that prevented it (budget, time, etc.).
> > Besides, you act like character design differences are new to Halo. Compare Cortana from each game to the next. Look at Johnson from CE, to 2, to 3. Look at freakin’ Buck. Character designs change all the time, because of artistic license and better technology. It’s not invalidated just because you think the old look should continue.
>
> So it’s more expensive to put a different human face on top of a human actor’s face but it’s cheap to put a Sangheili’s split jaw face on top of a human actor’s face? And I am well aware that they have changed character face designs before, I never said I wasn’t bothered by those but at least they kept the spirit of the character the same with every new game. Anders looks different but that one I can live with because she still looks like Anders; Cutter on the other hand is a completely different person with an entirely different voice. They don’t look or sound anything alike. Comparing Johnson in Halo 2 and Halo 3, yeah they look different but the spirit of the character is still there. Cortana changes in every Halo game but I can look at each new iteration of Cortana and definitively tell you, “yeah, that’s Cortana” Seeing Cutter for the first time in that first teaser I knew for sure that couldn’t possibly be Cutter and believed we were gonna get a new character. But it turns out that really was supposed to be Captain Cutter. There is no excuse for that for the reasons I’ve stated above.
> And I still fail to see how an actor would refuse a job because they’re face would be altered. Someone offers them an acting gig they’re going to take it because it pays money. Like I said, they’re not big enough actors to just pass on something like this. They seemed to cast an actor for Atriox just fine and he looks like a hulking monster.
- I didn’t say making Elites was cheap.
- Actors, even voice actors, don’t necessarily say yes to every job. It is possible to say no, and it happens often. I’m not saying that it necessarily played an aspect in this situation, but it can and does happen.
- You have yet to play Halo Wars 2. How do you know the spirit of Cutter isn’t there? So what if he looks a bit different; if it matters that much to you, don’t play it/buy it. What, you expect them to go back and redo his face just because you don’t like it? Have you considered the idea that 343i wanted to scrap his old look for a different one; that now that they are capable of utilizing facial capture that they want to use it to its fullest extent, bringing actors/actresses to life from the real world into the game? You say that Anders is tolerable because it still looks like her; did you happen to notice the shift in nationality? She looks alot different to me; not that I mind. You say they “have no excuse” for what they’ve done; I challenge that with “why do they need an excuse”? You don’t like them upgrading to facial/motion capture because it changes the established looks of characters. I say, and I think many more will agree, that the visual benefits provided by facial/motion capture far outweigh that cost. The only thing I would say is odd about the changes in Cutter’s appearance is that he seems younger in HW2 than in HW1. But I think that’s forgivable.
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> > > > > Two major differences that probably account for this: budget and permission.
> > > > > For Rogue One, it had a $200 million budget. I’m sure a fair chunk of that went into providing the CGI likeness for those characters. Halo Wars 2 development cost is probably nowhere near $200 million.
> > > > > As for permission, well, it stands to reason that Carrie Fisher would give permission for her likeness to be used in a Star Wars film. Of course, just having her act as normal would have not been sufficient; she is far too old for any makeup to make her look the age Leia was supposed to be. CGI was the only option. As for Tarkin, well, the actor who originally play Tarkin is dead (has been for awhile), so that either means the studio didn’t need permission for his likeness or his estate gave the studio permission.
> > > > > With Halo Wars 2, we don’t know why original actors aren’t reprising their role. But since original Cutter wasn’t created using facial capture, and facial capture will be used for Cutter in HW2, it stands to reason that there would be some visual differences. Is it possible that they could take the old character models and overlay them for the new versions of the characters? Sure, probably. But since they are upgrading to facial capture, I’m betting the desire is to let the technology speak for itself. Also, maybe the new actors for Cutter and Anders want their likeness to be depicted, and would have said no to their likeness being covered by old character models.
> > > > > To say that Cutter and Ander’s new faces are invalidated by Rogue One is false. There are plenty of reasons beyond technological capability at work.
> > > >
> > > > They use facial capture technology for Atriox, all Sangheili, and even Master Chief so it is clear that it’s not a matter of having as big a budget as Rogue One since they are already capable of altering the actor’s face to fit the characters. For permission, that’s not a problem because the original Halo Wars character designs were not based on real people. And I find it hard to believe that the actors would hold the developers hostage and not give them permission to change their faces, it’s not up for them to decide and they’re not big enough actors to have that kind of power.
> > >
> > > It is up to them to decide if they want to take the job. If the actor sees their likeness won’t be represented, they can choose not to take the job.
> > > Also, facial capture is not as expensive as facial capture plus CGI overlay. Besides, maybe they wanted to use facial capture in Halo Wars 1, but were limitations to the development the game that prevented it (budget, time, etc.).
> > > Besides, you act like character design differences are new to Halo. Compare Cortana from each game to the next. Look at Johnson from CE, to 2, to 3. Look at freakin’ Buck. Character designs change all the time, because of artistic license and better technology. It’s not invalidated just because you think the old look should continue.
> >
> > So it’s more expensive to put a different human face on top of a human actor’s face but it’s cheap to put a Sangheili’s split jaw face on top of a human actor’s face? And I am well aware that they have changed character face designs before, I never said I wasn’t bothered by those but at least they kept the spirit of the character the same with every new game. Anders looks different but that one I can live with because she still looks like Anders; Cutter on the other hand is a completely different person with an entirely different voice. They don’t look or sound anything alike. Comparing Johnson in Halo 2 and Halo 3, yeah they look different but the spirit of the character is still there. Cortana changes in every Halo game but I can look at each new iteration of Cortana and definitively tell you, “yeah, that’s Cortana” Seeing Cutter for the first time in that first teaser I knew for sure that couldn’t possibly be Cutter and believed we were gonna get a new character. But it turns out that really was supposed to be Captain Cutter. There is no excuse for that for the reasons I’ve stated above.
> > And I still fail to see how an actor would refuse a job because they’re face would be altered. Someone offers them an acting gig they’re going to take it because it pays money. Like I said, they’re not big enough actors to just pass on something like this. They seemed to cast an actor for Atriox just fine and he looks like a hulking monster.
>
> 1) I didn’t say making Elites was cheap.
> 2) Actors, even voice actors, don’t necessarily say yes to every job. It is possible to say no, and it happens often. I’m not saying that it necessarily played an aspect in this situation, but it can and does happen.
> 3) You have yet to play Halo Wars 2. How do you know the spirit of Cutter isn’t there? So what if he looks a bit different; if it matters that much to you, don’t play it/buy it. What, you expect them to go back and redo his face just because you don’t like it? Have you considered the idea that 343i wanted to scrap his old look for a different one; that now that they are capable of utilizing facial capture that they want to use it to its fullest extent, bringing actors/actresses to life from the real world into the game? You say that Anders is tolerable because it still looks like her; did you happen to notice the shift in nationality? She looks alot different to me; not that I mind. You say they “have no excuse” for what they’ve done; I challenge that with “why do they need an excuse”? You don’t like them upgrading to facial/motion capture because it changes the established looks of characters. I say, and I think many more will agree, that the visual benefits provided by facial/motion capture far outweigh that cost. The only thing I would say is odd about the changes in Cutter’s appearance is that he seems younger in HW2 than in HW1. But I think that’s forgivable.
Honestly, I wouldn’t mind the new look for Cutter especially after I heard that there was going to be a Halo Wars Definitive Edition. I thought “ok so they are going to retcon their look to match the new game” but I guess that’s not what they’re doing. But the fact that Cutter looks younger is exactly what I’m talking about, playing the game won’t change that because he is simply not recognizable. I know the spirit of the character isn’t there because they even got the voice wrong. He looks AND sounds a lot younger, not a few years younger, more like a decade or two younger. Also they did not change Anders’ ethnicity, she is played by an Asian actress.
And you actually did suggest that putting a Sangheili’s face on a human actor’s face was less costly, you said “facial capture is not as expensive as facial capture plus CGI overlay” Sangheili characters are performed by human actors and they CGI overlay the split jaw faces, which is the whole point of this entire post. The point I’m making: if they can do it for the aliens why not the humans?
And if if an actor auditions for job and they get it, they’re not going to change their mind because now their face won’t be featured. They knew what they were auditioning for from the start and now they have the job.
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> > > > > > Two major differences that probably account for this: budget and permission.
> > > > > > For Rogue One, it had a $200 million budget. I’m sure a fair chunk of that went into providing the CGI likeness for those characters. Halo Wars 2 development cost is probably nowhere near $200 million.
> > > > > > As for permission, well, it stands to reason that Carrie Fisher would give permission for her likeness to be used in a Star Wars film. Of course, just having her act as normal would have not been sufficient; she is far too old for any makeup to make her look the age Leia was supposed to be. CGI was the only option. As for Tarkin, well, the actor who originally play Tarkin is dead (has been for awhile), so that either means the studio didn’t need permission for his likeness or his estate gave the studio permission.
> > > > > > With Halo Wars 2, we don’t know why original actors aren’t reprising their role. But since original Cutter wasn’t created using facial capture, and facial capture will be used for Cutter in HW2, it stands to reason that there would be some visual differences. Is it possible that they could take the old character models and overlay them for the new versions of the characters? Sure, probably. But since they are upgrading to facial capture, I’m betting the desire is to let the technology speak for itself. Also, maybe the new actors for Cutter and Anders want their likeness to be depicted, and would have said no to their likeness being covered by old character models.
> > > > > > To say that Cutter and Ander’s new faces are invalidated by Rogue One is false. There are plenty of reasons beyond technological capability at work.
> > > > >
> > > > > They use facial capture technology for Atriox, all Sangheili, and even Master Chief so it is clear that it’s not a matter of having as big a budget as Rogue One since they are already capable of altering the actor’s face to fit the characters. For permission, that’s not a problem because the original Halo Wars character designs were not based on real people. And I find it hard to believe that the actors would hold the developers hostage and not give them permission to change their faces, it’s not up for them to decide and they’re not big enough actors to have that kind of power.
> > > >
> > > > It is up to them to decide if they want to take the job. If the actor sees their likeness won’t be represented, they can choose not to take the job.
> > > > Also, facial capture is not as expensive as facial capture plus CGI overlay. Besides, maybe they wanted to use facial capture in Halo Wars 1, but were limitations to the development the game that prevented it (budget, time, etc.).
> > > > Besides, you act like character design differences are new to Halo. Compare Cortana from each game to the next. Look at Johnson from CE, to 2, to 3. Look at freakin’ Buck. Character designs change all the time, because of artistic license and better technology. It’s not invalidated just because you think the old look should continue.
> > >
> > > So it’s more expensive to put a different human face on top of a human actor’s face but it’s cheap to put a Sangheili’s split jaw face on top of a human actor’s face? And I am well aware that they have changed character face designs before, I never said I wasn’t bothered by those but at least they kept the spirit of the character the same with every new game. Anders looks different but that one I can live with because she still looks like Anders; Cutter on the other hand is a completely different person with an entirely different voice. They don’t look or sound anything alike. Comparing Johnson in Halo 2 and Halo 3, yeah they look different but the spirit of the character is still there. Cortana changes in every Halo game but I can look at each new iteration of Cortana and definitively tell you, “yeah, that’s Cortana” Seeing Cutter for the first time in that first teaser I knew for sure that couldn’t possibly be Cutter and believed we were gonna get a new character. But it turns out that really was supposed to be Captain Cutter. There is no excuse for that for the reasons I’ve stated above.
> > > And I still fail to see how an actor would refuse a job because they’re face would be altered. Someone offers them an acting gig they’re going to take it because it pays money. Like I said, they’re not big enough actors to just pass on something like this. They seemed to cast an actor for Atriox just fine and he looks like a hulking monster.
> >
> > 1) I didn’t say making Elites was cheap.
> > 2) Actors, even voice actors, don’t necessarily say yes to every job. It is possible to say no, and it happens often. I’m not saying that it necessarily played an aspect in this situation, but it can and does happen.
> > 3) You have yet to play Halo Wars 2. How do you know the spirit of Cutter isn’t there? So what if he looks a bit different; if it matters that much to you, don’t play it/buy it. What, you expect them to go back and redo his face just because you don’t like it? Have you considered the idea that 343i wanted to scrap his old look for a different one; that now that they are capable of utilizing facial capture that they want to use it to its fullest extent, bringing actors/actresses to life from the real world into the game? You say that Anders is tolerable because it still looks like her; did you happen to notice the shift in nationality? She looks alot different to me; not that I mind. You say they “have no excuse” for what they’ve done; I challenge that with “why do they need an excuse”? You don’t like them upgrading to facial/motion capture because it changes the established looks of characters. I say, and I think many more will agree, that the visual benefits provided by facial/motion capture far outweigh that cost. The only thing I would say is odd about the changes in Cutter’s appearance is that he seems younger in HW2 than in HW1. But I think that’s forgivable.
>
> Honestly, I Also they did not change Anders’ ethnicity, she is played by an Asian actress.
Faye Kingslee is Australian.
And yes, facial capture+overlay is more expensive than just facial capture. But then, they probably aren’t using facial capture for the Elites; just motion capture. For an Elite character, the facial design can be entirely made up because there is no human aspect behind it. Atriox may be a different story, but also maybe not. So far all we know is that facial capture was used for Cutter and Anders. For Elites and Brutes, motion capture will probably be used to get a more realistic feel for those units movements, but the character designs will probably completely computer generated.
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> Technology has advanced so much since Halo Wars was made in 2009, 343i has stated that the designs for Cutter and Anders look different because “they are different”. The standards for modern gaming calls for the use of performance capture using real actors to portray the characters in the video game’s world. Well to that I say Blam! (Yeah, that’s right, I typed Blam myself)
> After watching “Rogue One A Star Wars Story” (SPOILERS if you haven’t seen it) we clearly see brilliant use of performance capture to recreate Tarkin and young Princess Leia: one of which is no longer alive and the other isn’t wearing slave outfits these days. So why can’t they overlay the original character designs from Halo Wars to the actors’ faces in Halo Wars 2? It can’t possibly be that hard unless they managed to find an actor who has a striking resemblance to Atriox, or any Sangheilli from Halo 2 Anniversary because you can bet those were also performed by real actors. They do it with Master Chief all time, the actor doesn’t wear a helmet, they put it afterwards, so what’s the deal? Couldn’t they at least get an older looking gentlemen to play Cutter? They didn’t try at all to get the voice right.
> I already know there’s someone who is going to say that Tarkin’s cgi face doesn’t look great. Even if that were true, that’s irrelevant because that was a cgi character standing next to real people, it would look great in a video game because the whole environment is animated.
> Despite all this, I do want to make it clear that I’m unbelievably excited for Halo Wars 2, The original game is one of my favorite in the series which is why I feel so passionately about the changes they’ve made to Cutter and Anders. The beauty of animation is that characters can live on beyond the actor who plays it. This isn’t like trying re cast Han Solo because Harrison Ford is too old to play the character anymore, in animation you shouldn’t have to worry about things like this. Come on 343. I love ya, I really do (more than most people) but sometimes you just make it really hard to defend you.
Sorry to stop that whole thing short, but they used doppleganger actors. Crazy I know but also true. There was no cgi for them.
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> > 2533274835930845;1:
> > Technology has advanced so much since Halo Wars was made in 2009, 343i has stated that the designs for Cutter and Anders look different because “they are different”. The standards for modern gaming calls for the use of performance capture using real actors to portray the characters in the video game’s world. Well to that I say Blam! (Yeah, that’s right, I typed Blam myself)
> > After watching “Rogue One A Star Wars Story” (SPOILERS if you haven’t seen it) we clearly see brilliant use of performance capture to recreate Tarkin and young Princess Leia: one of which is no longer alive and the other isn’t wearing slave outfits these days. So why can’t they overlay the original character designs from Halo Wars to the actors’ faces in Halo Wars 2? It can’t possibly be that hard unless they managed to find an actor who has a striking resemblance to Atriox, or any Sangheilli from Halo 2 Anniversary because you can bet those were also performed by real actors. They do it with Master Chief all time, the actor doesn’t wear a helmet, they put it afterwards, so what’s the deal? Couldn’t they at least get an older looking gentlemen to play Cutter? They didn’t try at all to get the voice right.
> > I already know there’s someone who is going to say that Tarkin’s cgi face doesn’t look great. Even if that were true, that’s irrelevant because that was a cgi character standing next to real people, it would look great in a video game because the whole environment is animated.
> > Despite all this, I do want to make it clear that I’m unbelievably excited for Halo Wars 2, The original game is one of my favorite in the series which is why I feel so passionately about the changes they’ve made to Cutter and Anders. The beauty of animation is that characters can live on beyond the actor who plays it. This isn’t like trying re cast Han Solo because Harrison Ford is too old to play the character anymore, in animation you shouldn’t have to worry about things like this. Come on 343. I love ya, I really do (more than most people) but sometimes you just make it really hard to defend you.
>
> Sorry to stop that whole thing short, but they used doppleganger actors. Crazy I know but also true. There was no cgi for them.
Holy cow!! It IS CGI!! Well partly at least.
Sorry for my uninformed, contradictory post.
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> > > > > > > Two major differences that probably account for this: budget and permission.
> > > > > > > For Rogue One, it had a $200 million budget. I’m sure a fair chunk of that went into providing the CGI likeness for those characters. Halo Wars 2 development cost is probably nowhere near $200 million.
> > > > > > > As for permission, well, it stands to reason that Carrie Fisher would give permission for her likeness to be used in a Star Wars film. Of course, just having her act as normal would have not been sufficient; she is far too old for any makeup to make her look the age Leia was supposed to be. CGI was the only option. As for Tarkin, well, the actor who originally play Tarkin is dead (has been for awhile), so that either means the studio didn’t need permission for his likeness or his estate gave the studio permission.
> > > > > > > With Halo Wars 2, we don’t know why original actors aren’t reprising their role. But since original Cutter wasn’t created using facial capture, and facial capture will be used for Cutter in HW2, it stands to reason that there would be some visual differences. Is it possible that they could take the old character models and overlay them for the new versions of the characters? Sure, probably. But since they are upgrading to facial capture, I’m betting the desire is to let the technology speak for itself. Also, maybe the new actors for Cutter and Anders want their likeness to be depicted, and would have said no to their likeness being covered by old character models.
> > > > > > > To say that Cutter and Ander’s new faces are invalidated by Rogue One is false. There are plenty of reasons beyond technological capability at work.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > They use facial capture technology for Atriox, all Sangheili, and even Master Chief so it is clear that it’s not a matter of having as big a budget as Rogue One since they are already capable of altering the actor’s face to fit the characters. For permission, that’s not a problem because the original Halo Wars character designs were not based on real people. And I find it hard to believe that the actors would hold the developers hostage and not give them permission to change their faces, it’s not up for them to decide and they’re not big enough actors to have that kind of power.
> > > > >
> > > > > It is up to them to decide if they want to take the job. If the actor sees their likeness won’t be represented, they can choose not to take the job.
> > > > > Also, facial capture is not as expensive as facial capture plus CGI overlay. Besides, maybe they wanted to use facial capture in Halo Wars 1, but were limitations to the development the game that prevented it (budget, time, etc.).
> > > > > Besides, you act like character design differences are new to Halo. Compare Cortana from each game to the next. Look at Johnson from CE, to 2, to 3. Look at freakin’ Buck. Character designs change all the time, because of artistic license and better technology. It’s not invalidated just because you think the old look should continue.
> > > >
> > > > So it’s more expensive to put a different human face on top of a human actor’s face but it’s cheap to put a Sangheili’s split jaw face on top of a human actor’s face? And I am well aware that they have changed character face designs before, I never said I wasn’t bothered by those but at least they kept the spirit of the character the same with every new game. Anders looks different but that one I can live with because she still looks like Anders; Cutter on the other hand is a completely different person with an entirely different voice. They don’t look or sound anything alike. Comparing Johnson in Halo 2 and Halo 3, yeah they look different but the spirit of the character is still there. Cortana changes in every Halo game but I can look at each new iteration of Cortana and definitively tell you, “yeah, that’s Cortana” Seeing Cutter for the first time in that first teaser I knew for sure that couldn’t possibly be Cutter and believed we were gonna get a new character. But it turns out that really was supposed to be Captain Cutter. There is no excuse for that for the reasons I’ve stated above.
> > > > And I still fail to see how an actor would refuse a job because they’re face would be altered. Someone offers them an acting gig they’re going to take it because it pays money. Like I said, they’re not big enough actors to just pass on something like this. They seemed to cast an actor for Atriox just fine and he looks like a hulking monster.
> > >
> > > 1) I didn’t say making Elites was cheap.
> > > 2) Actors, even voice actors, don’t necessarily say yes to every job. It is possible to say no, and it happens often. I’m not saying that it necessarily played an aspect in this situation, but it can and does happen.
> > > 3) You have yet to play Halo Wars 2. How do you know the spirit of Cutter isn’t there? So what if he looks a bit different; if it matters that much to you, don’t play it/buy it. What, you expect them to go back and redo his face just because you don’t like it? Have you considered the idea that 343i wanted to scrap his old look for a different one; that now that they are capable of utilizing facial capture that they want to use it to its fullest extent, bringing actors/actresses to life from the real world into the game? You say that Anders is tolerable because it still looks like her; did you happen to notice the shift in nationality? She looks alot different to me; not that I mind. You say they “have no excuse” for what they’ve done; I challenge that with “why do they need an excuse”? You don’t like them upgrading to facial/motion capture because it changes the established looks of characters. I say, and I think many more will agree, that the visual benefits provided by facial/motion capture far outweigh that cost. The only thing I would say is odd about the changes in Cutter’s appearance is that he seems younger in HW2 than in HW1. But I think that’s forgivable.
> >
> > Honestly, I Also they did not change Anders’ ethnicity, she is played by an Asian actress.
>
> Faye Kingslee is Australian.
> And yes, facial capture+overlay is more expensive than just facial capture. But then, they probably aren’t using facial capture for the Elites; just motion capture. For an Elite character, the facial design can be entirely made up because there is no human aspect behind it. Atriox may be a different story, but also maybe not. So far all we know is that facial capture was used for Cutter and Anders. For Elites and Brutes, motion capture will probably be used to get a more realistic feel for those units movements, but the character designs will probably completely computer generated.
I don’t know, I’m pretty sure they use the same facial capture technology with the Elites. I know for a fact they do it with Brutes and Atriox because they give them flat faces due to the fact humans actors don’t have snouts. In the original Halo 2 and Halo 3 Brute designs they had longer snout like mouths.
And come on, Faye Kingslee may be from Australia but I know she is at least half chinese.
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> > Cutter and Anders’ faces arent the same because their actor’ schedules conflicted with other projects they had gong on. I read that somewhere a while back.
>
> Cutter and Anders were not based on real people nor were they performed by real actors so scheduling conflicts is not the problem. I wouldn’t mind if they changed voice actors, but they could have at least gotten someone who sounds like Cutter.
Exactly,as much as I can live with anders new look,I still can’t get over cutter,he looks way too young and his voice just doesn’t match,it’s very frustrating