Rises From The Ashes -- Pushing to Grow Again

I don’t come around these forums as much as I’d want to, but I believe this is the best place to raise a concern and hope for 343 to read it, and (wishful thinking here) address it.

I’ve come today because after reading an article, I’ve come to realize that many people, including but not limited to video game analysts, writers, and perhaps even people who work at 343 might not understand what is “wrong” with 343’s redefined Halo experience. I want to clear things up for some people.

I have been around the series since the day Halo 2 launched, but also have gone back to CE, and I have excessive MP experience with the series (I’d estimate around 50k online games total), but I’ve also played each Campaign a dozen times each. I’ve come to realize that more often than not, a lot of people seem to agree with my views on Halo and I hope that most of the people who have been around since at least Halo 3’s prime will understand how it makes sense.

Let’s start with the beginning.

343 has made it clear to us that it was intended to drastically change the MP experience of Halo. How, not so much. Just made the changes, a lot of videos explaining what changed and then came the launch.

A lot of us didn’t like what we saw, but thought “hey, might as well give it a try” and for the most part, the experience was nowhere near as great as expected. It’s hard to cover every single thing, so I’ll cover the important points and explain what needs to change and give a very understandable reason behind it.

If you don’t understand why I’m doing this, it’s simple. The peak concurrent users on the latest Halo title has never been so low. It’s just not popular. Of course, no one is forcing you to care; you can just forget about it and let it tank for the next release or two and call it quits in the most embarrassing manner… or you can correct the shot and be remembered as something good for one of the best video games ever created.

Most of us still care, most of us will hop right away on a good game, no matter how outdated the concepts seem. Halo 3’s “re-release” has shown us that. But it is a critical time. It’s been said over and over, and I hope I can help enlighten the people who don’t necessarily have as much experience with the series.

Here’s something I posted somewhere else. I’ve detailed it to post it on here.

Go back to what the last thing that has worked was. To where the last growth in Halo was.

Halo 3.

What did it do right?

Ranked vs Social
A lot less frustration around the Matchmaking aspect in general. Competitive people get competitive matches with their 50s to brag about. People who don’t care about that don’t have to, get fast matches and are able to have fun in casual games!

Progression System which rewards winners [EXP] and scales with skill, not one that holds your hand
Because most people will leave in the middle of a game if there’s no reason to win. Because of grieving. Because Halo 4’s SR system was too simple to beat.

WEEKLY bonuses [Double EXP weekends with awesome modes, but not ones that should be permanent]
OK, let’s face it. Little people want to run Mini Slayer games 24/7 (bad pun) but as an occasional thing, it’s awesome and super fun. It brings people back EVERY weekend because it’s a fun change and worth the time. [++ population]

Cosmetic customization revolving around achievements
Because it is the best incentive out there to get stuff done, rather than grind or boost through the progression system.
NOTE: Cosmetic. Armor, etc. Don’t unlock weapons. Weapon skins tied to your character (E.G. when picking up a weapon) would be an awesome concept.

Forge Mode
Now this is something you’ve been doing right. Taking the existing features and building upon them to make it even better! THAT’S EXACTLY WHAT WE NEED, BUT ACROSS THE GAME. Just make sure the game can handle the performance needed.

Theater Mode that supports Campaign (important as hell for speedrunners, easter eggs, general interest, content)
This is the reason why almost no one did Spartan Ops or stuff in the Campaign post-launch. You can’t save your shenanigans, can’t make awesome content, routes, etc.

File Sharing system
Make it work pre-game – at the vote / veto screen – that’s how most files went around! Bring back the tile design for it

Custom Games options should ALWAYS get more and more with each title, never less
I would hope you got the message with Halo 4.

Arena-based balance more than ever
Smaller maps, even weapon starts, no AAs, no rock-paper-scissors 1v1 encounters. Skill. Two men enter, better man leaves. Scrap EVERYTHING that doesn’t pertain to making it an Arena shooter. Remove it from default modes. Loadouts, AAs, Sprint, Flinch vs. Descope, unlockable weapons and non-cosmetics.

Loadouts are acceptable when:

Everyone has access to a balanced selection of them, and when the maps are BIG. It can work in BTB, Invasion and borderline Dominion. Anything else, never.

And loadouts removed the incentive to go around the map to pick up important items. Need to blow up the Warthog? Go grab the PP and stickies and go in. It makes no sense to – as an individual – spawn with a PERFECT counter for a POWER ITEM that requires MULTIPLE people to use. It’s a horrid concept. You don’t need to know the map, it’s overpowered, and it’s frustrating!

Please read the following, over and over if you have to, but it is crucial that you understand it.

Halo was born in an Arena shooter, and was the most popular one at that. Halo is not popular for being “Halo”. It will never be a popular “generic modern shooter”. It needs to remain true to its genre to be popular.

Admit that it was a screw up to listen to the ideas of people who wanted to redefine traditional Halo, because it will not work.

Don’t listen to some random execs or people who have come from other franchises with no experience related to Halo. If you want to replicate another game, look at the older Halo games. They were popular for a reason. And if I can list this stuff alone, imagine what all of us can do.

You need to realize and accept the fact that us, the players, have EXPONENTIALLY more experience with the franchise than you guys. Even some of us might have more online games played than your entire studios combined. Sure some people do not know for crap how to voice their complaints and come off as arrogant jerks, but get past it, and look for the real message.

Some people do love Halo to no end and are frustrated, feel betrayed. You need to sympathize with the situation and understand where these people are coming from.

You need to ask us what works and what doesn’t, instead of shoving everything that’s a new concept in our faces. Ask us how to address X issue in the bulletin; then make a thread for it.

Take Halo 3’s ranks for instance; boosting is a major issue. What could we do? Remove the negative TrueSkill influence towards ranking up.

Best part is that you can do that for everything. Just make sure it’s a relevant issue for people.

Stuff like Ricochet is the awesome kind of new! A lot of people like these new interesting modes, and this is the kind of stuff we need as “new things”. Not excessive core changes. New fun things that doesn’t break or remove existing content.

Simple enough?

Agreed. 100% ^

Its unfortunate that we’ve been saying this since the early days of Reach, but were still being ignored. Honestly, we should’ve had a proper Halo game seeing as how Reach got a proper update in 2012. That led a lot of people to believe that Halo 4 was heading in the right direction. Instead we got a game with more armour abilities and less classic Halo.

Hopefully we went be let down three times in a row. Enough is enough. Bring Halo back 343i.

P.S 343i this is what real Halo used to be:

Don’t follow in this games footsteps:

Perfect post.
I agree whole-heartedly.

Honestly, I’d break my own leg if it meant we’d have true Halo again.

> Perfect post.
> I agree whole-heartedly.
>
> Honestly, I’d break my own leg if it meant we’d have true Halo again.

Don’t. It will make turning on the xbox a pain.
I agree OP. I feel H3 had it going right.

finally, something that explains what halo should be…

I agree wholeheartedly with this post. Reach was a spin-off/prequel to Halo and should’ve NEVER impacted Halo 4. Halo 4 should have been built off of Halo 3. All Halo 4 did was further divide this community.

I think this quote fits what has and will happen with 343, “all is dust, all is dust”.

> Theater Mode that supports Campaign (important as hell for speedrunners, easter eggs, general interest, content)
> This is the reason why almost no one did Spartan Ops or stuff in the Campaign post-launch. You can’t save your shenanigans, can’t make awesome content, routes, etc.

Actually, it’s one of the reasons why people gave up after playing. Initially, there was surplus activity in uncovering glitches, making montages, finding strats, etc.

Nowadays, I only know a few prominent trickers that still upload Halo 4 content (actually, only one of them still uploads Halo 4 content). I only know two speedrunners who actively speedrun the Campaign.

I’ve only seen people from the Mythic community still playing Halo 4. Everyone else is playing GTA V or older Halo games.

I Love this post. #WeBaK

Agreed 100%

Please 343, make it happen.

100% Agree Vetoed

I honestly like competitive play. I hate the fact that when I search in H4 I rarely match kids of my skill level. I think I’ve only matched Vetoed like once in H4 total but I’ve been on H3 the past month and I’ve matched him multiple times.

343 Please listen to the competitive community and the community as a whole!

I find myself agreeing with a lot of what youre saying.

With that said, I have to wonder how long this thread will remain unlocked/un edited by the mods.

They don’t take too kindly to criticism around these parts.

As another forum-goer put it on another of my Halo forums: On Waypoint its either fanboy or banned boy.

OP, 100% agree with you. I stopped playing Halo 4 almost entirely because I got bored. 343 needs to improve their Halo games, or I’ll just be buying Halo just to play campaign. Lets hope it never comes to that.
343 needs to look back at the original Halo trillogy for inspiration. Not Reach, not COD. Real Halo, back when it was super popular. Make Halo 5 a true Halo game, Arena style.
I stopped playing Halo 4 because it was to easy to rank up. Looking back, I never hit 50 in Halo 2, i think I was a 43 before that rank reset back in the day. and If I remember correctly, I got to a 2 star general in Halo 3. I kept playing 2 and 3 because there was always something to shoot for. For me, the two most important things would be to bring back a proper ranking system 1-50 and make the game start with Even starts. No game breaking load outs please!

> I find myself agreeing with a lot of what youre saying.
>
> With that said, I have to wonder how long this thread will remain unlocked/un edited by the mods.
>
> They don’t take too kindly to criticism around these parts.
>
> As another forum-goer put it on another of my Halo forums: On Waypoint its either fanboy or banned boy.

Incorrect.

We don’t take to kindly to criticism which violates the rules users have to agree to when signing up. There are plenty of threads that have remained untouched.

That said, discussing how the moderation works around here, however, IS frowned upon (as well as against the rules), so consider this a friendly warning.

I agree wholeheartedly with every single word you typed. Especially Campaign Theater/Scoring, since I’d actually be playing Halo 4 if it had that.

Also, I’d like to add that change was made (especially to the UI) just for the sake of change. Reach had the best video game UI ever and they just threw it out the window and came up with the clunky system in H4.

I agree so much, the problem with Halo 4 was too many inequalities or bugs, and nothing to keep the population a reason to play it, Reach had - Yoinking - Inheritor and its addicting Custom Games and Forge(and the best UI), Halo 3 had the 1-50 ranks and Hayabusa, ODST had a proper and hard to survive Firefight, Halo 2 had a very long Campaign(at least it was planned) , Halo CE was unique, had vehicles, aliens, guns, melee, grenades, an arena-based game, and a fun Campaign filled with giant and big battles, Halo Wars… all I can say about this is that it was a fun, but not so good RTS game. First, if not foremost, they should go back to their roots, then add all the fun, addicting, unique, balanced, and awesome things, then add the best, or fitting qualities of their competition. Then will Halo Rise again as the best FPS!(hopefully, if done correctly.)

A well thought out post vetoed.

I would just like to say though that I do feel games need to change and evolve from one title to the next to keep them fresh, however, changing the core mechanics of a popular game series is a big gamble. More subtle changes would be welcome though.

However, I’m not sure from your post but do you basically want each game to stay pretty much the same when it comes to multiplayer?

First off, I’d like to thank everyone who’s posted so far. The response is far more positive than I had anticipated and I appreciate that a lot.

Of course, all feedback is welcome. If you disagree with something, feel free to explain the thought process behind it and we can have a nice discussion about it.

> However, I’m not sure from your post but do you basically want each game to stay pretty much the same when it comes to multiplayer?

This is something very important you bring up and I’m glad you did.

Let’s make it clear; if nothing ever changed, it would become stagnant fast, people would lose interest because it’s the same thing over and over. Nothing new would come out of the game and it’s not something we want, because no matter how slow it would be, it would lead to the death of the game.

It’s something natural.

However, it is important to define what makes Halo, Halo. It is an Arena shooter. The main points of an Arena shooter are this:

  • Skill gap revolves around accuracy / shooting technique
  • Classes take a step back; everyone starts with an UTILITY weapon that can fight at most ranges
  • The said weapon should be difficult enough to use (hence the need of less aim assists), but powerful enough to kill fast in the hands of someone good and compete with power weapons
  • Power items (power-ups / weapons / vehicles) are placed in key areas on the map, and are fought over
  • Smaller maps than war simulation games such as Battlefield or CoD; it feels like an actual arena with a specific theme depending on the map. The context can take a step back

The last point is something that made most maps in Reach not work well. The maps were given a context in the Campaign and had to make sense in that environment. It made it VERY difficult to find symmetrical / balanced maps. Balance is a KEY element in Arena shooters.

This said, I think these are some elements that must NEVER be changed. It is what defines the game, and it needs to remain true to these few elements. Because that’s just what Halo is. It’s not just a bunch of super soldiers in space with neat weapons. It’s more than just a theme.

So to keep the game fresh and new with each installment, there are a few ways to approach it.

  • New, good and balanced maps. It is very hard to make a map without power items on it, so right off the bat, ordnance needs to go.
  • New, challenging to obtain, sweet customizables. Think how awesome the Katana and Hayabusa armor was at first in Halo 3. Or Recon. We need this kind of epic, elite unlockables back. It gave Campaign and achievements a second purpose.
  • New modes and features. Think of Forge, Theater, File Share, Reach’s perfect UI… things like a spectator mode have been asked for years now. In-game leaderboards or ladders. It doesn’t have to be everything at once, but we shouldn’t be losing features.
  • New custom games options with every new feature added. There’s no reason for Sprint, ball throwing, flag dropping, etc. not to have a toggle option.
  • New ranks. There are many ways to improve the last ranking system we had (Halo 3) and make it something so much better. People are very creative when it comes to this kind of stuff, but 343 doesn’t ask.

And so on. The core never had to change. One thing that CoD is doing right is not wanting to revamp their whole formula into something different to appeal to more people. Their fanbase has been the same since the original Modern Warfare (which is ironic seeing how it came out just after Halo 3) and the core game hasn’t changed since then. All they did was add features based on what people asked for and build upon them.

It’s working out for them. Their initial fans just keep telling everyone how awesome the game is, more people get it, and it snowballs from there.

There’s no point in replicating the things they do; their fanbase is well-established and people have no reason to pick a similar game when CoD does it best.

However, no game does what classic Halo did. And before someone else does, it would be a good time to correct the shot.

No games did what past Halos did? I agree. But the gaming scene has Changed.

Halo was unique in that it was groundbreaking for it’s time, one of the few truly blockbuster games out there because there was no major competition. If you look at the market now, we have shooters aplenty(COD, BF and their knockoffs), as well as very well written space operas(Mass Effect Trilogy), and a few good space games with horror in it a la the flood(dead space).

I think there is one painful fact that we now have to acquaint ourselves with:

Halo is no longer unique

It’s sad, but it’s true. Halo thrived and dominated because it had a headstart in the console FPS market and other games scrambled to get in on the action(Regenerating health, a strong multiplayer Etc.) But now that there is competition, and competition that is selling well. Halo has tried to keep up, but stumbled over tangled cords that it was unfamiliar with(new developer AND new gameplay style).

Halo has now wandered into the territory of “Just another Triple-A” Game. And that’s NOT what we’re used too, and we’re uncomfortable with it. But we might have to get used to it, and that’s what so many here are afraid of: that we might fade away into the background of the games industry, and they are doing what they think is their damndest to prevent that from happening. And I have to admit, I admire that.

Do not go quietly into that goodnight,
Rage, Rage against the dying of the light.

You speak the truth, my friend.

And I like that.

I award you with one more thank.