Bungie removed one of the best maps there was from the Team Doubles. Swordbase was a favorite of mine and many of my friends. Look, if people don’t want to play there they will just not vote for it. It’s that simple. Also, it wasn’t a crappy forge map like the ones that now flood the Doubles playlist. There will be trolls arguing that the weapons were not good or camping, but blah. Weapons can be changed. Please reinstate Swordbase to doubles.
Please put the yellow lift room aka the worst map to ever appear in an FPS back into the Double Team playlist? Really?! The fact that you pre-emptively label anyone who questions you or is “arguing that the weapons were not good or camping, but blah” is a troll is just a little offensive and somewhat naive. In almost every single context, the map is completely broken. FFA is pretty much the only gametype that even half works on the map and even then the games can still be reduced to a moronic level of campathon.
I actually agree with your implied sentiment in that some of the Forged maps are not so good for Doubles (I know from being involved in pre-matchmaking playtests that many of them were not designed with Doubles in mind), but my suggestion would be to replace them with maps which were actually designed for 2v2 gameplay.
Here are a selection. Any of these would be welcome additions to Double Team. Plus they all play about a million times better than Yellow Lift Room.
I also think that if you put your mind to it, you could probably forge a reimagination/redesign of Sword Base without the elements which made it awful. It would take some work to make something that doesn’t look grey and forged, but that way perhaps you’d come to appreciate how much work goes in to some of the more cohesive and unique forge creations. Then with some more work (and many hours of playtesting and tweaking) we could push to get that into Matchmaking and everyone would be happy (you and your friends included).
I second that one!!!
Sword Base is my worst map but people that just call it, “The Lift Camp Room,” just are bad at anti-camping. Seriously lets look here. Bottom has a sniper and an energy sword, middle has grenade launcher and shotgun, and top floor gets … A DMR? ok well what ever … So when it comes time for the other weapons to re-spawn if you’re camping in a lift you miss out on sniper, sword, shotgun, and grenade launcher (ultimate anti-camper weapon) … So yea the other team snatches those and boom you see a flash and you’re dead and they get to keep plowing through you now >.> So erm yea … Stop calling it the lift camp paradise which only semi-works in Living Dead …
I wouldnt mind swordbase on doubles as long as they blocked off red and yellow lift that way there is more fighting and less camping. Top control would be based on who wins a gun fight.
> Sword Base is my worst map but people that just call it, “The Lift Camp Room,” just are bad at anti-camping. […]
Hmm… Generalization much? I am seriously looking at it and it’s a terrible map. It’s not just that camping that makes it so. It’s the kind of map that wouldn’t even get off the ground as a conceptual idea for most map designers. It’s certainly not helped by the Initial Spawn locations, which are completely uneven by all accounts. Even with the recent changes, access to weapons is still massively in favor of Red team. Off spawn they get GL and Shotgun and easy top control. If it’s DMR starts with good teams then the game can quickly be reduced to a stalemate with map movement reduced to a crawl. It simultaneously demonstrates pretty much every flawed element a good map designer would want to avoid.
Having said that, I’ve played on a modified version of the map with different (more even) initial spawns, a 1 clip, drop spawn Sniper on a 60 second respawn (2 max), no Sword and a few other weapons moved about and I was certainly surprised to find that gameplay was approaching something which could be described as fluid and dynamic (certainly helped by the 60 second Sniper and a reduced 10m radar in the gametype). So it’s not beyond redemption, but there are just a myriad of much better maps out there. And many of them were actually designed for 2v2 gameplay.
No. Never. If people don’t camp in the yellow lift room then they will camp in the red lift room. If they don’t camp in the red lift room they will camp in the Blue team spawn. If they don’t camp in the blue team spawn they will camp in the room under red lift.
The entire map are a series of narrow walkways connecting to camp-happy rooms by claustrophobic, grenade-prone doorways. It was a crap map to begin with. I don’t see how it’s any better than it is now.
default sword base is one of the few maps that can be COMPLETELY locked down with 1 GOD TIER setup needing only 2 people to complete.
it is an ATROCIOUS map for doubles because it is far to easy to camp. not only that, theres about a billion different hiding spots and nooks and crannies for someone with a shotgun or sword to simply wait… and kill half of the enemy team.
sword base could be fixed, dont get me wrong, but it would take changes that i really dont think 343 will make.
-teleporter from the bottom base’s flag spawn to the top of the ‘attic’.
-removal of shotgun.
-removal of sword.
-sniper on ‘drop spawn’ spawning on every 2 minute mark with 4 bullets.
with those changes the map would be more playable. until those changes take effect, however, the map will be trash for doubles.
Here’s what I meant by this post. Here we have a map that was not forged and was able to be played in doubles, but it was removed because people complained about camping. This can all be fixed very easily with the removal of weapons, ammo limitation, and even possibly more grenade spawns.
Reach is a double-edged sword for me. I think the gameplay is among the best yet. Team work is so essential. But since it’s Bungie’s last game, it hasn’t gotten any attention when it comes to maps. Forge maps can be done well, but they are absolutely bland with no character. Let’s face it, it’s an easy way to add maps to the game without the developers having to do a lick of the work or spend any money. When I see them remove a real map like Swordbase from the hopper and replace it with community created maps it really gets to me. If they are good maps, spend time on them and make them into a “real” map. What’s really sad is that many of the maps shipped with the game were just forges. Epic fail!
Yes, there have been a couple of map packs but they are of no value to me if they won’t also work in doubles. Maps the size of Countdown, Reflection and Swordbase all work well with either doubles or squad or team slayer. How about some more like those. No more forges!
> […] Maps the size of Countdown, Reflection and Swordbase all work well with either doubles or squad or team slayer. How about some more like those. No more forges!
Did you even look at the maps I posted? Jia is very Yellow/Orange, Elysium is very Green and Purification is very Blue/Oceanic. I didn’t just pick maps that were properly built for 2v2 gameplay - I also made a point of picking maps that demonstrate what’s possible in terms of the varied pallette of Forge World objects and locations. Moreover (and much more importantly, in my view), these maps play amazingly. Gameplay ebbs and flows like some organic creature, in comparison with the static, predictable and downright boring gameplay engendered by maps like Sword Base. (I dare you to download a few of them, run some custom 2v2s and come back in here and defy me.)
> Here’s what I meant by this post. Here we have a map that was not forged and was able to be played in doubles, but it was removed because people complained about camping. This can all be fixed very easily with the removal of weapons, ammo limitation, and even possibly more grenade spawns.
I fully understand where you’re coming from with the overall idea here, but many have attempted to fix the map with different spawns/weapons etc. and even though (as I mentioned earlier), this was sometimes fairly successful if done very carefully, there were still major flow issues on this map which could never be countered without fundamental structural modifications. Unfortunately (and for whatever reason) Bungie decided to be stubborn about this particular map and didn’t implement any of the fundamental modifications requested by the community.
There are things we - as a community - can (and in some cases did) do. These include weapon and spawn modifications and perhaps even some added explosives at top yellow and top red. Only one of these was finally implemented after months of repeated requests and that was the Sniper. Even then, its spawn timer was too long and clip size too large and it was not drop spawned. The things we can’t do relate to structural areas, which - as I implied earlier - are essentially a deal breaker.
Things may well be different now that 343i have taken over. They may be more open to suggestions than the previous developers. I don’t know, but it’s worth a try…
I would never want Sword Base back in the Double Team playlist in its current state. But that’s not to say I’m completely against the idea of it ever making a re-appearence in a (dramatically) modified state. I would of course prefer that 343i would make some fundamental structural modifications and release this version to the public, allowing the Community to make modifications to Initial spawns and Weapon locations and timers which are then vetted by the Community Cartographers (CCs). This is probably the only scenario in which I could see something like this working.
But to be honest, I think 343i have got enough on their plate and are unlikely to make a move in this area.
They should bring it to team doubles. Camping or not its still fun. You could camp anywhere you want in team doubles on any map so it doesnt really matter. I think its a good thing because it adds another map to the mix of community maps.
Sword Base is quite possibly the worst map for a FPS in video game history. Hell, I’d put it up there.
You have to be nuts to demand Sword Base back into matchmaking. We’re trying to push it out, not bring it back. Things would be much better if it was simply erased from my disc so that it would load fail whenever the option was selected in Matchmaking.