> 10. All those fancy vehicle and weapon variants like the ONI Warthog and Longshot AR, can we use them in Custom Games and Forge?
> These are not currently usable in Custom Games or Forge, but we may rotate them into matchmaking for Arena as part of the core weapon set for maps in that experience.
> -Josh Holmes
Right now the Reddit community is abuzzed with this announcement. Lazy link Some very good points were brought up.
The best point was brought up by /u/Ewokitude who responded to someone who was really upset and talked about the dozens of different varriants of weapons and vehicles like EMP Hydras and AOE effect Gauss cannons
> I agree, some operate very differently and probably have their own learning curve that is different than the learning curve for their base weapon. Having them in Forge or customs would at least let people try them out first so they can make an informed decision on when to use them in Warzone. The whole premise of the REQ system in Warzone is risk vs. reward. Do I call in a rocket launcher now or save my energy for a sniper rifle later? If people don’t know how these ultra-rare and legendary variants work they’re basically wasting a card since they won’t be able to utilize it properly. Since these cards are also among the rarest Warzone cards, I have to ask what the point is if no one will get a chance to learn how to maximize their effectiveness.
I’m inclined to agree. I know there are many players who were going to use the forge to test many of these weapons or create some crazy off the wall customs.
And I bet the Machinima community would benefit from the availability of these assets on forge for custom games.
So in the end, if possible. If this post is read. 343I, please reconsider this choice. Pure epic halo action is being left behind on the table here
> 2533274803137071;3:
> > 2533274874192460;2:
> > Not going to retype what I typed to how it wouldn’t work but instead I will post my quotes here along with another person’s
>
>
> Well all opinions are valid. I’ll like to see your views
On second thought I’ll just post.
The rng req system with the variants and what not are specifically designed to work with war zone and not any other mode. Forge and customs don’t have anything related to the req system implemented in them at all.
The variants come in different varieties or rarities whatever you want to call them. There’s common, rare, ultra rare, legendary, and mythic?( unsure about mythic). Because you aren’t guaranteed one of those items from a req they have a very high value and if they were to let you try them out in forge and custom they would lose that value. Also what would be the purpose of the req system? Implementing something like that will break not only the req formula but war zone itself.
Also to add these items are not permanent so what if while you are doing a machinima you accidentally blow up that vehicle, someone kills you while you have that weapon, what do you think will happen? The item you have will be gone until you get another one from a req pack.
They will probably also keep adding more and more variants to the game through reqs so it will be a major hassle for the developers to make all of those available in modes that they were not designed for.
I’ll just say it sucks about variants but saying it wouldn’t work is just a lazy excuse. Its forge after all its a sandbox that should allow us to do whatever is brought into the game notably Warzone items and vehicles that seem possible to be put into forge. They might as well make it so that modders could actually implement stuff in forge that 343i can’t/won’t.
> 2533274874192460;4:
> > 2533274803137071;3:
> > > 2533274874192460;2:
> > > Not going to retype what I typed to how it wouldn’t work but instead I will post my quotes here along with another person’s
> >
> >
> > Well all opinions are valid. I’ll like to see your views
>
>
> On second thought I’ll just post.
> The rng req system with the variants and what not are specifically designed to work with war zone and not any other mode. Forge and customs don’t have anything related to the req system implemented in them at all.
>
> The variants come in different varieties or rarities whatever you want to call them. There’s common, rare, ultra rare, legendary, and mythic?( unsure about mythic). Because you aren’t guaranteed one of those items from a req they have a very high value and if they were to let you try them out in forge and custom they would lose that value. Also what would be the purpose of the req system? Implementing something like that will break not only the req formula but war zone itself.
>
> Also to add these items are not permanent so what if while you are doing a machinima you accidentally blow up that vehicle, someone kills you while you have that weapon, what do you think will happen? The item you have will be gone until you get another one from a req pack.
>
> They will probably also keep adding more and more variants to the game through reqs so it will be a major hassle for the developers to make all of those available in modes that they were not designed for.
Wouldn’t be the point of forge to do whatever you want and doesn’t have to follow the rules of Warzone or req pack system because it never has and the difference of rarity only exists in Warzone so why would forge follow the same idea. The things that appear special to Warzone is 12v12, A.I. and variants all of these could of been possible in forge without a doubt just takes work.
The player count would of been the easiest to do, the variants would of been next since its just skins and a change of how they work from the base vehicle/weapon. Then A.I. they could of used Warzone to test the pathing, spawns etc then test it into forge with scripts implented couple of games have shown to do this.
> 2533274925960280;5:
> I’ll just say it sucks about variants but saying it wouldn’t work is just a lazy excuse. Its forge after all its a sandbox that should allow us to do whatever is brought into the game notably Warzone items and vehicles that seem possible to be put into forge. They might as well make it so that modders could actually implement stuff in forge that 343i can’t/won’t.
Lazy excuse?
In order to make it work for custom games they would have to remove it entirely to rework it so it can have a similar system to war zone where players need to earn ranks during a match in order to even use the variants.
They would have to delay forge even further to implement the req features in it as well. If they were to do anything of these things or have a let you try it out option it will completely destroy war zone and the incentive of getting req cards for anything but armor.
It is complicated to put ai in forge, you would have to make many different tools just so you can give players the option to make the ai behave the way the want to. That is asking for a longer delay and I’m not even sure it’s possible on the x1s hardware. It screams too much work to make the script for the individual ai tools and then there is the bug fixing and polishing of the tools and ai.
> 2533274874192460;7:
> > 2533274925960280;5:
> > I’ll just say it sucks about variants but saying it wouldn’t work is just a lazy excuse. Its forge after all its a sandbox that should allow us to do whatever is brought into the game notably Warzone items and vehicles that seem possible to be put into forge. They might as well make it so that modders could actually implement stuff in forge that 343i can’t/won’t.
>
>
> Lazy excuse?
>
> In order to make it work for custom games they would have to remove it entirely to rework it so it can have a similar system to war zone where players need to earn ranks during a match in order to even use the variants.
> They would have to delay forge even further to implement the req features in it as well. If they were to do anything of these things or have a let you try it out option it will completely destroy war zone and the incentive of getting req cards for anything but armor.
>
> It is complicated to put ai in forge, you would have to make many different tools just so you can give players the option to make the ai behave the way the want to. That is asking for a longer delay.
Why would there be reqs in forge? There’s no reason for it you get everything you want at the start since competitive is different from custom games. It wouldn’t destroy Warzone that’s like saying it would destroy arena since forge has an obvious amount of stuff to do even the idea of btb. Warzone still is exclusive because that’s mm whereas forge/customs is for fun and provides creative freedom. Why would forge be limited by a req system if its not supposed to be.
Saying this wouldn’t hurt Warzone is wrong, it’s the same in CSGO, me, and a lot of other players will play to unlock that rare stuff, and if we could just use them in forge and in custom games we simply would use them there which would take everything from Warzone, it’s the fun of collecting these REQ Cards that would just be destroyed if you could just go into forge and spawn them there.
> 2533274826066683;9:
> Saying this wouldn’t hurt Warzone is wrong, it’s the same in CSGO, me, and a lot of other players will play to unlock that rare stuff, and if we could just use them in forge and in custom games we simply would use them there which would take everything from Warzone, it’s the fun of collecting these REQ Cards that would just be destroyed if you could just go into forge and spawn them there.
Exactly. Forge is 100% casual, and the Custom games that are created around it are just as casual.
In a mode like forge and the maps that spawn from it, it would not be surprising to see modes were everyone is spawning with the Hi Five rocket launcher.
343 has added technically dozens of brand new weapons. All with different characteristics and abilities. It changes everything. And you just had Josh Holmes say they might rotate some of those Req weapons in the Actual competitive MP (IE we already saw it with the Prophet’s Bane during the Beta)
So honestly I would see no problem being to spawn 16 ONI tanks. Or do 2 of each tank on each team and have some epic 8v8 scorpion tank battles in Customs. I know some people here did 8v8 forge made maps on Halo 3- MCC. It’s the reason why Heavies Exsisted because of the forge made custom games people made from people who just wanted to watch the world burn from pure epicness.
Warzone would and competitive matchmaking would not be affected by allowing us all Req weapons and vehicles in Forge
Yeah, I’m not convinced at all by those who oppose variants in forge.
I had the idea of Echindas spawns (hydra with EMP) and having one team be on pillars while the other has banshees and phaeton sand they have to push the players off… Except Echindas aren’t available in forge.
you should rename the thread to make it a clear “req variants should be in forge.”
Warzone is like the main battlefield, go out there and prove your ground in 12v12. Forge isn’t even 12v12, you can do a lot of creative stuff with it… And those Req items? They’d just make it funner! Would be nice to have the load out ones too! It would make things so much funner! Even if you had to unlock certification to place them in forge…
> 2533274803137071;10:
> > 2533274826066683;9:
> > Saying this wouldn’t hurt Warzone is wrong, it’s the same in CSGO, me, and a lot of other players will play to unlock that rare stuff, and if we could just use them in forge and in custom games we simply would use them there which would take everything from Warzone, it’s the fun of collecting these REQ Cards that would just be destroyed if you could just go into forge and spawn them there.
>
>
> Exactly. Forge is 100% casual, and the Custom games that are created around it are just as casual.
>
> In a mode like forge and the maps that spawn from it, it would not be surprising to see modes were everyone is spawning with the Hi Five rocket launcher.
>
> 343 has added technically dozens of brand new weapons. All with different characteristics and abilities. It changes everything. And you just had Josh Holmes say they might rotate some of those Req weapons in the Actual competitive MP (IE we already saw it with the Prophet’s Bane during the Beta)
>
> So honestly I would see no problem being to spawn 16 ONI tanks. Or do 2 of each tank on each team and have some epic 8v8 scorpion tank battles in Customs. I know some people here did 8v8 forge made maps on Halo 3- MCC. It’s the reason why Heavies Exsisted because of the forge made custom games people made from people who just wanted to watch the world burn from pure epicness.
>
> Warzone would and competitive matchmaking would not be affected by allowing us all Req weapons and vehicles in Forge
Exactly. People need to look at it from a “next step” perspective and take it a step further.
What’s the next logical step of a Forge variant that becomes popular? People want to see it in MM. What prohibits those Forge variant from making the leap to MM?
> 2533274826066683;9:
> Saying this wouldn’t hurt Warzone is wrong, it’s the same in CSGO, me, and a lot of other players will play to unlock that rare stuff, and if we could just use them in forge and in custom games we simply would use them there which would take everything from Warzone, it’s the fun of collecting these REQ Cards that would just be destroyed if you could just go into forge and spawn them there.
I really, really don’t understand this argument. You’re only going to play Warzone to use the weapon variants? This is the implication I’m getting here, since being able to use those variants in custom games would drive you to outright forgo Warzone.
> 2533274823519895;13:
> > 2533274826066683;9:
> > Saying this wouldn’t hurt Warzone is wrong, it’s the same in CSGO, me, and a lot of other players will play to unlock that rare stuff, and if we could just use them in forge and in custom games we simply would use them there which would take everything from Warzone, it’s the fun of collecting these REQ Cards that would just be destroyed if you could just go into forge and spawn them there.
>
>
> I really, really don’t understand this argument. You’re only going to play Warzone to use the weapon variants? This is the implication I’m getting here, since being able to use those variants in custom games would drive you to outright forgo Warzone.
War zone might not be as popular as the devs will want it to be. Having those variants be used in war zone only will give the players another incentive to play war zone. If they make them available for other things that incentive goes away which would cause war zone to become something akin to spartan ops in terms of player population.
Since the variant aren’t permanent items they are heavily reliant on war zone’s req system of gaining ranks in order to use them. They would have to take the rule of you die you lose the item and completely go against by making it available in forge. Which again if they do, they would be breaking the whole balance of the req system and war zone.
Forge’s incentive is to create maps
Custom game’s incentive is to play those forge maps, select the settings for game modes, and possibly come up with new game modes.
War zone’s incentives are 24 players, big battle, ai enemies, and the varaints.
> 2533274874192460;14:
> > 2533274823519895;13:
> > > 2533274826066683;9:
> > > Saying this wouldn’t hurt Warzone is wrong, it’s the same in CSGO, me, and a lot of other players will play to unlock that rare stuff, and if we could just use them in forge and in custom games we simply would use them there which would take everything from Warzone, it’s the fun of collecting these REQ Cards that would just be destroyed if you could just go into forge and spawn them there.
> >
> >
> > I really, really don’t understand this argument. You’re only going to play Warzone to use the weapon variants? This is the implication I’m getting here, since being able to use those variants in custom games would drive you to outright forgo Warzone.
>
>
> War zone might not be as popular as the devs will want it to be. Having those variants be used in war zone only will give the players another incentive to play war zone. If they make them available for other things that incentive goes away which would cause war zone to become something akin to spartan ops in terms of player population.
>
> Since the variant aren’t permanent items they are heavily reliant on war zone’s req system of gaining ranks in order to use them. They would have to take the rule of you die you lose the item and completely go against by making it available in forge. Which again if they do, they would be breaking the whole balance of the req system and war zone.
I’d be a touch concerned if the only thing that keeps players coming back to a massive blend of PvP and PvE never before seen in the Halo series is a BR that shoots slightly faster.
I couldn’t code myself out of a wet paper bag, so forgive me if I’m totally off-base, but all the possible (currently existing) req items exist on the disc, right? So to me, the simple answer would be to bypass the req system, not have to burn that card to spawn/place a variant, and just, you know, choose the weapon from the weapon data saved on our hard drives. Again, I could be totally wrong, but I don’t think a string of code is going to notice that one weapon is meant to be more special than another.
I’m even more confused after your edit; you imply that warzone’s population would tank (I truthfully don’t know what the population of spartan ops was like on account of playing Halo 4 by choice only twice) if we were given access to these weapons outside of warzone but conversely you list a whole host of things that make warzone worth playing. You can’t have it both ways.
I’m pretty sure they’ll be improving forge as time goes on anyways… so adding new items and so on would make sense… and adding new req stuff would make sense too…
> 2533274823519895;15:
> > 2533274874192460;14:
> > > 2533274823519895;13:
> > > > 2533274826066683;9:
> > > > Saying this wouldn’t hurt Warzone is wrong, it’s the same in CSGO, me, and a lot of other players will play to unlock that rare stuff, and if we could just use them in forge and in custom games we simply would use them there which would take everything from Warzone, it’s the fun of collecting these REQ Cards that would just be destroyed if you could just go into forge and spawn them there.
> > >
> > >
> > > I really, really don’t understand this argument. You’re only going to play Warzone to use the weapon variants? This is the implication I’m getting here, since being able to use those variants in custom games would drive you to outright forgo Warzone.
> >
> >
> > War zone might not be as popular as the devs will want it to be. Having those variants be used in war zone only will give the players another incentive to play war zone. If they make them available for other things that incentive goes away which would cause war zone to become something akin to spartan ops in terms of player population.
> >
> > Since the variant aren’t permanent items they are heavily reliant on war zone’s req system of gaining ranks in order to use them. They would have to take the rule of you die you lose the item and completely go against by making it available in forge. Which again if they do, they would be breaking the whole balance of the req system and war zone.
>
>
> I’d be a touch concerned if the only thing that keeps players coming back to a massive blend of PvP and PvE never before seen in the Halo series is a BR that shoots slightly faster.
>
> I couldn’t code myself out of a wet paper bag, so forgive me if I’m totally off-base, but all the possible (currently existing) req items exist on the disc, right? So to me, the simple answer would be to bypass the req system, not have to burn that card to spawn/place a variant, and just, you know, choose the weapon from the weapon data saved on our hard drives. Again, I could be totally wrong, but I don’t think a string of code is going to notice that one weapon is meant to be more special than another.
>
> I’m even more confused after your edit; you imply that warzone’s population would tank (I truthfully don’t know what the population of spartan ops was like on account of playing Halo 4 by choice only twice) if we were given access to these weapons outside of warzone but conversely you list a whole host of things that make warzone worth playing. You can’t have it both ways.
I agree, I know that if Warzone had only base weapons, I would still play it. Seriously, 12v12, PVE/PVP environments, Biggest maps of all time. Hidden map secrets. Base capturing, Massive vehicle combat. It’s going to hold my interest for a very long time
> 2533274809220485;16:
> I’m pretty sure they’ll be improving forge as time goes on anyways… so adding new items and so on would make sense… and adding new req stuff would make sense too…
This is what I hope and pray, I don’t mind if it happens a few months down the road. I’ll be happy that they did it
> 2533274874192460;7:
> > 2533274925960280;5:
> > I’ll just say it sucks about variants but saying it wouldn’t work is just a lazy excuse. Its forge after all its a sandbox that should allow us to do whatever is brought into the game notably Warzone items and vehicles that seem possible to be put into forge. They might as well make it so that modders could actually implement stuff in forge that 343i can’t/won’t.
>
>
> Lazy excuse?
>
> In order to make it work for custom games they would have to remove it entirely to rework it so it can have a similar system to war zone where players need to earn ranks during a match in order to even use the variants.
> They would have to delay forge even further to implement the req features in it as well. If they were to do anything of these things or have a let you try it out option it will completely destroy war zone and the incentive of getting req cards for anything but armor.
>
> It is complicated to put ai in forge, you would have to make many different tools just so you can give players the option to make the ai behave the way the want to. That is asking for a longer delay and I’m not even sure it’s possible on the x1s hardware. It screams too much work to make the script for the individual ai tools and then there is the bug fixing and polishing of the tools and ai.
>
> This isn’t fallout, forge is no geck
Why would you need to rework something when you could just add it into a variants menu in forge when you click on an item -_-
> 2533274816851068;19:
> > 2533274874192460;7:
> > > 2533274925960280;5:
> > > I’ll just say it sucks about variants but saying it wouldn’t work is just a lazy excuse. Its forge after all its a sandbox that should allow us to do whatever is brought into the game notably Warzone items and vehicles that seem possible to be put into forge. They might as well make it so that modders could actually implement stuff in forge that 343i can’t/won’t.
> >
> >
> > Lazy excuse?
> > In order to make it work for custom games they would have to remove it entirely to rework it so it can have a similar system to war zone where players need to earn ranks during a match in order to even use the variants.
> > They would have to delay forge even further to implement the req features in it as well. If they were to do anything of these things or have a let you try it out option it will completely destroy war zone and the incentive of getting req cards for anything but armor.
> > It is complicated to put ai in forge, you would have to make many different tools just so you can give players the option to make the ai behave the way the want to. That is asking for a longer delay and I’m not even sure it’s possible on the x1s hardware. It screams too much work to make the script for the individual ai tools and then there is the bug fixing and polishing of the tools and ai.
> > This isn’t fallout, forge is no geck
>
>
> Why would you need to rework something when you could just add it into a variants menu in forge when you click on an item -_-
more or less you are right, all they would have to do is just added it to the list in forge. truly it would be that hard to just add something to it when its already coded in the game.
also guess what is in forge, the halo 1 pistol is already in forge, same with halo 2 BR, and halo 2 brute plasma rifle so why can’t it work?
also as for the A.I. that would be easy as well. the only problem for that would be the map object size. i dont see the AI part happening.