REQ System "Unintrusive"?

Games Halo 5: Guardians
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> > > > > > > > Then don’t play that mode till you build a inventory. It’s like any other mode where new players are at a disadvantage to veteran players.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If new players need to grind lots of hours in X game modes in order to be on an even playing field with veteran players in Y game modes, then I think it’s still fair to say Y game modes aren’t exactly friendly to new players, compared to X game modes in which new players start on an even playing field with veteran players. In that respect, it’s not like any other game mode where new players are at a disadvantage to veteran players. Remember I’m only talking about req arsenals, not skill or map knowledge.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Why does everything have to be fair? Is it really that bad that players have to actually play the game to get stuff in it? That players have to work their way up. Granted it sucks that it’s RNG for their stuff but it’s really not that hard to grind out points for packs.
> > > > >
> > > > > It’s not fun when you’re being wiped across the floor because your opponent got lucky in a Daily Pack and unlocked a SPNKr Prime, and all you got was a plasma pistol.
> > > > > It creates a hideous imbalance, and new players don’t want to play it. I speak from experience, as I got into Warzone, and immediately got destroyed by the other team and their high level vehicles and weapons, and I had little to nothing to counter them with. I swore off Warzone that day, and I will never go back.
> > > > > Grinding out points is easy. If you’re doing well and you win. That’s the kicker. In Warzone, it’s nigh on impossible to do well as a level 0. You’ve got to play for hours upon hours to be able to go toe to toe with the big boys, and by that time, you’ve probably stopped playing and moved on to another game.
> > > >
> > > > Warzone isn’t about balance though. If you want balance gameplay play arena. If you had a plasma pistol why didn’t you use some cover and noob combo them and then take their spknr prime?
> > >
> > > Probably because it’s just as likely they got taken out by someone with a Nornfang. Or a Gauss Warthog. Or any number of powerful weapons.
> >
> > Well then he has a crappy team since they aren’t countering. Or he has the worse luck being in a 1 v 12 match.
>
> Could be any number of situations. But if they get matched with crappy teams, get paired against well oiled clans, or just plain don’t be have the gear or skill to compete once Warzone ramps up then your suggestion to just keep grinding Warzone isn’t going to help or be fun.

Sometimes the things worth doing are not fun, people aren’t magicaly going to be good at certain aspects of halo. If warzone is giving some one trouble, training will help, even if they loose. If im playing a slayer game with br starts, but my strafe and aim is bad, im not going to tell the comunity to change it to acomade my own needs becuase i cant get on the same level as the players who beat me.

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> > > > > > > > > Then don’t play that mode till you build a inventory. It’s like any other mode where new players are at a disadvantage to veteran players.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If new players need to grind lots of hours in X game modes in order to be on an even playing field with veteran players in Y game modes, then I think it’s still fair to say Y game modes aren’t exactly friendly to new players, compared to X game modes in which new players start on an even playing field with veteran players. In that respect, it’s not like any other game mode where new players are at a disadvantage to veteran players. Remember I’m only talking about req arsenals, not skill or map knowledge.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Why does everything have to be fair? Is it really that bad that players have to actually play the game to get stuff in it? That players have to work their way up. Granted it sucks that it’s RNG for their stuff but it’s really not that hard to grind out points for packs.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It’s not fun when you’re being wiped across the floor because your opponent got lucky in a Daily Pack and unlocked a SPNKr Prime, and all you got was a plasma pistol.
> > > > > > It creates a hideous imbalance, and new players don’t want to play it. I speak from experience, as I got into Warzone, and immediately got destroyed by the other team and their high level vehicles and weapons, and I had little to nothing to counter them with. I swore off Warzone that day, and I will never go back.
> > > > > > Grinding out points is easy. If you’re doing well and you win. That’s the kicker. In Warzone, it’s nigh on impossible to do well as a level 0. You’ve got to play for hours upon hours to be able to go toe to toe with the big boys, and by that time, you’ve probably stopped playing and moved on to another game.
> > > > >
> > > > > Warzone isn’t about balance though. If you want balance gameplay play arena. If you had a plasma pistol why didn’t you use some cover and noob combo them and then take their spknr prime?
> > > >
> > > > Probably because it’s just as likely they got taken out by someone with a Nornfang. Or a Gauss Warthog. Or any number of powerful weapons.
> > >
> > > Well then he has a crappy team since they aren’t countering. Or he has the worse luck being in a 1 v 12 match.
> >
> > Could be any number of situations. But if they get matched with crappy teams, get paired against well oiled clans, or just plain don’t be have the gear or skill to compete once Warzone ramps up then your suggestion to just keep grinding Warzone isn’t going to help or be fun.
>
> Sometimes the things worth doing are not fun, people aren’t magicaly going to be good at certain aspects of halo. If warzone is giving some one trouble, training will help, even if they loose. If im playing a slayer game with br starts, but my strafe and aim is bad, im not going to tell the comunity to change it to acomade my own needs becuase i cant get on the same level as the players who beat me.

Then again you are to be matched against someone in Arena carrying weapons you could only dream of because they either played longer than you or paid more money. All this tells me is that as the game gets older and the REQ pool gets larger the ability FITB potentially new players to have a decent experience goes down.

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> > > > > Then don’t play that mode till you build a inventory. It’s like any other mode where new players are at a disadvantage to veteran players.
> > > >
> > > > If new players need to grind lots of hours in X game modes in order to be on an even playing field with veteran players in Y game modes, then I think it’s still fair to say Y game modes aren’t exactly friendly to new players, compared to X game modes in which new players start on an even playing field with veteran players. In that respect, it’s not like any other game mode where new players are at a disadvantage to veteran players. Remember I’m only talking about req arsenals, not skill or map knowledge.
> > >
> > > Why does everything have to be fair? Is it really that bad that players have to actually play the game to get stuff in it? That players have to work their way up. Granted it sucks that it’s RNG for their stuff but it’s really not that hard to grind out points for packs.
> >
> > It’s not fun when you’re being wiped across the floor because your opponent got lucky in a Daily Pack and unlocked a SPNKr Prime, and all you got was a plasma pistol.
> > It creates a hideous imbalance, and new players don’t want to play it. I speak from experience, as I got into Warzone, and immediately got destroyed by the other team and their high level vehicles and weapons, and I had little to nothing to counter them with. I swore off Warzone that day, and I will never go back.
> > Grinding out points is easy. If you’re doing well and you win. That’s the kicker. In Warzone, it’s nigh on impossible to do well as a level 0. You’ve got to play for hours upon hours to be able to go toe to toe with the big boys, and by that time, you’ve probably stopped playing and moved on to another game.
>
> Warzone isn’t about balance though. If you want balance gameplay play arena. If you had a plasma pistol why didn’t you use some cover and noob combo them and then take their spknr prime?

There is a difference between pure balance and having an equal playing field. Arena is balanced because, in most playlists, all players from the get-go are on equal terms. It is player/team skill that gives one side an edge over another.

Warzone by nature isn’t exactly balanced, where your performance during a match gets you to higher REQ levels faster, thus giving you access to better gear sooner. The problem isn’t that someone got to REQ level 6 faster and is now out-ranging you from across the map with a DMR. The problem is that someone can go on a spree with a Prophet’s Bane that they got from a $10 microtransaction pack.

And, sure, maybe if I spend a few hundred bucks on the loot boxes or grind multiple millions of REQ Points, I too can have a chance at a Prophet’s Bane certification. A chance. An RNG chance. I shouldn’t have to grind millions of points or spend more money for an advantage in a fun game mode. And before you say “Then don’t play Warzone.”, I bought this game, and I’m going to play whichever mode I damn-well please. Though I should never be put at a disadvantage against another player because even though we both bought the game, they either bought more or got lucky with RNG.

Warzone could be unbalanced, but an equal playing field, if all players had access to all requisitions. No more one-time-use -Yoink- out of -Yoink- loot boxes. That way, not only would players/teams with higher skill have an edge and get more REQs faster, but any player could turn the tide by using any REQ they have access to. Not just the ones with better RNG luck, or more money to spend.

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> > > > > > Then don’t play that mode till you build a inventory. It’s like any other mode where new players are at a disadvantage to veteran players.
> > > > >
> > > > > If new players need to grind lots of hours in X game modes in order to be on an even playing field with veteran players in Y game modes, then I think it’s still fair to say Y game modes aren’t exactly friendly to new players, compared to X game modes in which new players start on an even playing field with veteran players. In that respect, it’s not like any other game mode where new players are at a disadvantage to veteran players. Remember I’m only talking about req arsenals, not skill or map knowledge.
> > > >
> > > > Why does everything have to be fair? Is it really that bad that players have to actually play the game to get stuff in it? That players have to work their way up. Granted it sucks that it’s RNG for their stuff but it’s really not that hard to grind out points for packs.
> > >
> > > It’s not fun when you’re being wiped across the floor because your opponent got lucky in a Daily Pack and unlocked a SPNKr Prime, and all you got was a plasma pistol.
> > > It creates a hideous imbalance, and new players don’t want to play it. I speak from experience, as I got into Warzone, and immediately got destroyed by the other team and their high level vehicles and weapons, and I had little to nothing to counter them with. I swore off Warzone that day, and I will never go back.
> > > Grinding out points is easy. If you’re doing well and you win. That’s the kicker. In Warzone, it’s nigh on impossible to do well as a level 0. You’ve got to play for hours upon hours to be able to go toe to toe with the big boys, and by that time, you’ve probably stopped playing and moved on to another game.
> >
> > Warzone isn’t about balance though. If you want balance gameplay play arena. If you had a plasma pistol why didn’t you use some cover and noob combo them and then take their spknr prime?
>
> There is a difference between pure balance and having an equal playing field. Arena is balanced because, in most playlists, all players from the get-go are on equal terms. It is player/team skill that gives one side an edge over another.
>
> Warzone by nature isn’t exactly balanced, where your performance during a match gets you to higher REQ levels faster, thus giving you access to better gear sooner. The problem isn’t that someone got to REQ level 6 faster and is now out-ranging you from across the map with a DMR. The problem is that someone can go on a spree with a Prophet’s Bane that they got from a $10 microtransaction pack.
>
> And, sure, maybe if I spend a few hundred bucks on the loot boxes or grind multiple millions of REQ Points, I too can have a chance at a Prophet’s Bane certification. A chance. An RNG chance. I shouldn’t have to grind millions of points or spend more money for an advantage in a fun game mode. And before you say “Then don’t play Warzone.”, I bought this game, and I’m going to play whichever mode I damn-well please. Though I should never be put at a disadvantage against another player because even though we both bought the game, they either bought more or got lucky with RNG.
>
> Warzone could be unbalanced, but an equal playing field, if all players had access to all requisitions. No more one-time-use -Yoink- out of -Yoink- loot boxes. That way, not only would players/teams with higher skill have an edge and get more REQs faster, but any player could turn the tide by using any REQ they have access to. Not just the ones with better RNG luck, or more money to spend.

Actually yes it is valid to say don’t play warzone if you aren’t willing to grind out points for pack or pay money for them. It isn’t that hard to grind out the points you need to unlock everything. Especially if you use the silver to gold method and take advantage of all the free packs available. To me it makes no difference how some one got their reqs. They still fought their way to that particular req level to use them. With the exception of turbo which is awesome fun to me.

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> > > > > > > Then don’t play that mode till you build a inventory. It’s like any other mode where new players are at a disadvantage to veteran players.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If new players need to grind lots of hours in X game modes in order to be on an even playing field with veteran players in Y game modes, then I think it’s still fair to say Y game modes aren’t exactly friendly to new players, compared to X game modes in which new players start on an even playing field with veteran players. In that respect, it’s not like any other game mode where new players are at a disadvantage to veteran players. Remember I’m only talking about req arsenals, not skill or map knowledge.
> > > > >
> > > > > Why does everything have to be fair? Is it really that bad that players have to actually play the game to get stuff in it? That players have to work their way up. Granted it sucks that it’s RNG for their stuff but it’s really not that hard to grind out points for packs.
> > > >
> > > > It’s not fun when you’re being wiped across the floor because your opponent got lucky in a Daily Pack and unlocked a SPNKr Prime, and all you got was a plasma pistol.
> > > > It creates a hideous imbalance, and new players don’t want to play it. I speak from experience, as I got into Warzone, and immediately got destroyed by the other team and their high level vehicles and weapons, and I had little to nothing to counter them with. I swore off Warzone that day, and I will never go back.
> > > > Grinding out points is easy. If you’re doing well and you win. That’s the kicker. In Warzone, it’s nigh on impossible to do well as a level 0. You’ve got to play for hours upon hours to be able to go toe to toe with the big boys, and by that time, you’ve probably stopped playing and moved on to another game.
> > >
> > > Warzone isn’t about balance though. If you want balance gameplay play arena. If you had a plasma pistol why didn’t you use some cover and noob combo them and then take their spknr prime?
> >
> > There is a difference between pure balance and having an equal playing field. Arena is balanced because, in most playlists, all players from the get-go are on equal terms. It is player/team skill that gives one side an edge over another.
> >
> > Warzone by nature isn’t exactly balanced, where your performance during a match gets you to higher REQ levels faster, thus giving you access to better gear sooner. The problem isn’t that someone got to REQ level 6 faster and is now out-ranging you from across the map with a DMR. The problem is that someone can go on a spree with a Prophet’s Bane that they got from a $10 microtransaction pack.
> >
> > And, sure, maybe if I spend a few hundred bucks on the loot boxes or grind multiple millions of REQ Points, I too can have a chance at a Prophet’s Bane certification. A chance. An RNG chance. I shouldn’t have to grind millions of points or spend more money for an advantage in a fun game mode. And before you say “Then don’t play Warzone.”, I bought this game, and I’m going to play whichever mode I damn-well please. Though I should never be put at a disadvantage against another player because even though we both bought the game, they either bought more or got lucky with RNG.
> >
> > Warzone could be unbalanced, but an equal playing field, if all players had access to all requisitions. No more one-time-use -Yoink- out of -Yoink- loot boxes. That way, not only would players/teams with higher skill have an edge and get more REQs faster, but any player could turn the tide by using any REQ they have access to. Not just the ones with better RNG luck, or more money to spend.
>
> Actually yes it is valid to say don’t play warzone if you aren’t willing to grind out points for pack or pay money for them. It isn’t that hard to grind out the points you need to unlock everything. Especially if you use the silver to gold method and take advantage of all the free packs available. To me it makes no difference how some one got their reqs. They still fought their way to that particular req level to use them. With the exception of turbo which is awesome fun to me.

The argument “Just don’t play Warzone” IS invalid. The game is centered around Warzone. You cannot progress in-game without interaction with the loot box store, which is all about Warzone. Warzone exists to sell loot boxes, and so Warzone is 343’s top priority. Even if I stopped playing Warzone, that doesn’t stop it from taking attention and assets away from other modes and features of the game.

But shame on me for not wanting to conform to the loot boxes, and I shouldn’t play a game mode that the game itself is centered around? Don’t tell people what they should and shouldn’t play. If someone buys a game, they can play whatever mode they please, and they have the right to criticize what they feel doesn’t work. You don’t have to agree with me, and I don’t have to agree with you, but telling others what they should and shouldn’t play is essentially trying to silence/belittle/invalidate their argument.

If you don’t see a difference with how someone obtained their REQs, than good for you. The problem I have is that I can be killed in-game due to factors outside of my control. If I engage in a sniper-duel against someone of 100% equal skill with a regular Sniper Rifle, but they bought the Nornfang bundle, then they have bought a distinctive advantage over me that I cannot compete with. It doesn’t matter how fast they got to the REQ level requirement either, as there’s too many factors that effect how fast they get there. Not much of a fight when the whole enemy team is running around with ARs and Magnums while you got a Halo CE Pistol from a random REQ card, skilled or not.

273

For the cosmetics, I’d prefer a system of challenges to unlock certain items. Much like Titanfall 2. I was engaged with that game because I wanted particular items, and could grind for them. Give me something to chase. Weapons, vehicles, power ups for warzone? I am pretty well okay with an RNG based system. Things that have an impact on a game mode are equally accessible provided you grind for packs and get REQ points.

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> > > > > > > > 2533274816788253;253:
> > > > > > > > Then don’t play that mode till you build a inventory. It’s like any other mode where new players are at a disadvantage to veteran players.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If new players need to grind lots of hours in X game modes in order to be on an even playing field with veteran players in Y game modes, then I think it’s still fair to say Y game modes aren’t exactly friendly to new players, compared to X game modes in which new players start on an even playing field with veteran players. In that respect, it’s not like any other game mode where new players are at a disadvantage to veteran players. Remember I’m only talking about req arsenals, not skill or map knowledge.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Why does everything have to be fair? Is it really that bad that players have to actually play the game to get stuff in it? That players have to work their way up. Granted it sucks that it’s RNG for their stuff but it’s really not that hard to grind out points for packs.
> > > > >
> > > > > It’s not fun when you’re being wiped across the floor because your opponent got lucky in a Daily Pack and unlocked a SPNKr Prime, and all you got was a plasma pistol.
> > > > > It creates a hideous imbalance, and new players don’t want to play it. I speak from experience, as I got into Warzone, and immediately got destroyed by the other team and their high level vehicles and weapons, and I had little to nothing to counter them with. I swore off Warzone that day, and I will never go back.
> > > > > Grinding out points is easy. If you’re doing well and you win. That’s the kicker. In Warzone, it’s nigh on impossible to do well as a level 0. You’ve got to play for hours upon hours to be able to go toe to toe with the big boys, and by that time, you’ve probably stopped playing and moved on to another game.
> > > >
> > > > Warzone isn’t about balance though. If you want balance gameplay play arena. If you had a plasma pistol why didn’t you use some cover and noob combo them and then take their spknr prime?
> > >
> > > There is a difference between pure balance and having an equal playing field. Arena is balanced because, in most playlists, all players from the get-go are on equal terms. It is player/team skill that gives one side an edge over another.
> > >
> > > Warzone by nature isn’t exactly balanced, where your performance during a match gets you to higher REQ levels faster, thus giving you access to better gear sooner. The problem isn’t that someone got to REQ level 6 faster and is now out-ranging you from across the map with a DMR. The problem is that someone can go on a spree with a Prophet’s Bane that they got from a $10 microtransaction pack.
> > >
> > > And, sure, maybe if I spend a few hundred bucks on the loot boxes or grind multiple millions of REQ Points, I too can have a chance at a Prophet’s Bane certification. A chance. An RNG chance. I shouldn’t have to grind millions of points or spend more money for an advantage in a fun game mode. And before you say “Then don’t play Warzone.”, I bought this game, and I’m going to play whichever mode I damn-well please. Though I should never be put at a disadvantage against another player because even though we both bought the game, they either bought more or got lucky with RNG.
> > >
> > > Warzone could be unbalanced, but an equal playing field, if all players had access to all requisitions. No more one-time-use -Yoink- out of -Yoink- loot boxes. That way, not only would players/teams with higher skill have an edge and get more REQs faster, but any player could turn the tide by using any REQ they have access to. Not just the ones with better RNG luck, or more money to spend.
> >
> > Actually yes it is valid to say don’t play warzone if you aren’t willing to grind out points for pack or pay money for them. It isn’t that hard to grind out the points you need to unlock everything. Especially if you use the silver to gold method and take advantage of all the free packs available. To me it makes no difference how some one got their reqs. They still fought their way to that particular req level to use them. With the exception of turbo which is awesome fun to me.
>
> The argument “Just don’t play Warzone” IS invalid. The game is centered around Warzone. You cannot progress in-game without interaction with the loot box store, which is all about Warzone. Warzone exists to sell loot boxes, and so Warzone is 343’s top priority. Even if I stopped playing Warzone, that doesn’t stop it from taking attention and assets away from other modes and features of the game.
>
> But shame on me for not wanting to conform to the loot boxes, and I shouldn’t play a game mode that the game itself is centered around? Don’t tell people what they should and shouldn’t play. If someone buys a game, they can play whatever mode they please, and they have the right to criticize what they feel doesn’t work. You don’t have to agree with me, and I don’t have to agree with you, but telling others what they should and shouldn’t play is essentially trying to silence/belittle/invalidate their argument.
>
> If you don’t see a difference with how someone obtained their REQs, than good for you. The problem I have is that I can be killed in-game due to factors outside of my control. If I engage in a sniper-duel against someone of 100% equal skill with a regular Sniper Rifle, but they bought the Nornfang bundle, then they have bought a distinctive advantage over me that I cannot compete with. It doesn’t matter how fast they got to the REQ level requirement either, as there’s too many factors that effect how fast they get there. Not much of a fight when the whole enemy team is running around with ARs and Magnums while you got a Halo CE Pistol from a random REQ card, skilled or not.

Actually yes you can progress in game without playing warzone. You can get all the same stuff unlocked by playing arena for points. It makes no difference. You gain RP and XP in arena. Again if you want skill and balanced play… Play arena. Warzone is about knowing what reqs to use to counter. Why would you try and counter a nornfang with a regular sniper rifle? I guess you could if you took a different position. But it’s best to use active camo and sneak up on them or use a banshee ultra and just bomb them.

275

I’d like to feel like I’ve earned something, honestly, when I got the halo 2 BR I wasn’t nearly as happy as when I unlocked inclement weather, im not saying to remove the req system, just don’t have customization options locked behind it

276

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> > Recently Frank O’Connor stated this about the REQ system “We watched the EA battlefront thing with the curiosity you’d expect - but our current req system is player focused and well liked and unintrusive as far as these things go.”
> >
> > The game is built around the REQ System with no way to unlock armour or skins through a progression system, forcing you to go into the store just to open a pack. I personally find the system to be intrusive and I wanna hear everyone’s thoughts on the matter. I’m honestly concerned that 343 sees their system as this even after the Battlefront 2 EA debacle.
>
> Thank you for starting this thread. I was getting ready to start one of my own. I was also going to leave a couple of source links. I like to leave the source of the quotes whenever I can.
>
> Source of the Frankie quote from a thread titled Rumor: MS re-evaluating how loot boxes will be implemented in Halo 6 after EA BFII fiasco. Now this thread was started because of this podcast, The Sames Report. Go to around the 12:00 minute mark to hear what Frankie is responding to about what this guy is saying about loot boxes for Halo 6. I think it’s nice to know the context for his comment.
>
> That being said I take a different look at this whole “unintrusive” idea. It’s not about whether or not it is just cosmetic or if the weapons are only available in Warzone. It is the fact that the whole Req system influenced the development of the entire multiplayer experience. The cosmetic numbers were bloated in order to accommodate this idea of “free dlc”. We were told “free dlc” in order to help sell the Req system, and we have all been around long enough to know that most of the DLC maps and armors were just reskins. We don’t need more and more when that more that we get is substandard. We don’t need a loot box system that gives us the illusion of free and great. What we need is more of a reality of high quality, well made and interesting maps and skins that we are more than willing to either pay money for or earn through in game achievement.
>
> I don’t think we can deny that Warzone received a high priority in development. How many playlists and modes did we not have at launch because of their focus on Warzone? Have we already forgotten the missing BTB, and no developer made maps? Warzone is built around Reqs, and vice versa. We have only three exclusively, achievement based helmets. The ones we can buy, and the Challenger armor set don’t count. The Req system again benefits from this.
>
> The Spartan Rank with the ridiculous high max XP required to reach 152 once again all about Req’s and Req boosts. The newly created weapon variants for Warzone made their way into Arena, and ranked Arena. Why else would we have those weapons if not for Warzone and the Req system?
>
> You say unintrusive…I say their loot box system intruded all over Halo 5. I believe wholeheartedly that if we keep on this mindset of, “Well, it’s not that bad.”, then we will definitely continue to see it in our games. Frankie’s statement is proof that even with the outcry of dislike for their system. They still think it is well liked. That fact that he says well liked just blows my mind. My guess is he is basing that on the numbers.
>
> I am very concerned and disheartened by Frankies statement, and the obviousness of how the loot system in gaming has turned us to acquiescent gamers especially when it comes to our most loved game.

The stuff in bold is pretty much summing up the reasons for my disdain for the REQ-system. It ruined what Halo 5: Guardians should have been at launch.
All those resources that was put into creating the REQ-system and the Warzone game-mode that was built around it was resources NOT put into further perfecting the Classic Halo formula (what is today called Ranked and Arena).

Halo 5: Guardians at release was unpolished and bare boned. No BTB, and a lot of other game-modes that SHOULD have been there.
“Free DLC” was just fixes to a broken game. And the addition of Wasps…yay.

Let’s not forget: **no split-screen!**I honestly assume no split-screen was a direct result of the resources needed for implementing the REQ-system. It makes sense; First game with REQs and Warzone, first game without Split-screen.

--------------Warzone, The Early 120-ish Spartan Levels. A Short Horror Story---------------------------------------------------------

I’ve played Warzone from launch, and saying that the REQ-system is un-intrusive just tells me he didn’t play the game.
At start you have an AR and Magnum, then everyone gets REQ-level 3. While you have a Magnum, the enemy had Longshot or Sentinel BRs.
For me, it took a LONG while before I got a BR, let alone a scoped one. So I spent a long time getting outranged and outgunned BY LOADOUT WEAPONS.

Enter REQ-level 4, and the enemy spawns SMGs. So I get outranged by the enemy BRs, and in close-quarters the enemy now had SMGs while I had my trust AR.
Sure, pilfering weapons was fun, but REALLY hard. And annoying.
Then I finally got a BR with a Longshot scope, at level 20-something. Yay!

Enter REQ-level 6.
The enemy suddenly starts outgunning me AGAIN, this time with DMRs.
I got my first by level 80-something,not even a joke, I was really unlucky!
So now I could stand on equal footing against the enemy on more than half of a Warzone game. At level 80.

Enter REQ-level 8. Remember when people started unlocking the Bayonet weapon variants, and you didn’t have one?
I do. Suddenly you knew you had to avoid close-quarters combat at all cost every late game Warzone match.

My biggest problem with the REQ-system was actually never The Nornfang, The Answer or whatever, those I could counter or they would run out of ammo.
The Loadout weapons where another thing, and they plagued Warzone until I had almost ALL WEAPONS UNLOCKED myself.

Remember this was pre-weapon tuning when all loadout weapons where actually good.
---------------------------The End-----------------------------

Saying that the REQ-system is un-intrusive is a lie.

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> > > > > > > > > Then don’t play that mode till you build a inventory. It’s like any other mode where new players are at a disadvantage to veteran players.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If new players need to grind lots of hours in X game modes in order to be on an even playing field with veteran players in Y game modes, then I think it’s still fair to say Y game modes aren’t exactly friendly to new players, compared to X game modes in which new players start on an even playing field with veteran players. In that respect, it’s not like any other game mode where new players are at a disadvantage to veteran players. Remember I’m only talking about req arsenals, not skill or map knowledge.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Why does everything have to be fair? Is it really that bad that players have to actually play the game to get stuff in it? That players have to work their way up. Granted it sucks that it’s RNG for their stuff but it’s really not that hard to grind out points for packs.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It’s not fun when you’re being wiped across the floor because your opponent got lucky in a Daily Pack and unlocked a SPNKr Prime, and all you got was a plasma pistol.
> > > > > > It creates a hideous imbalance, and new players don’t want to play it. I speak from experience, as I got into Warzone, and immediately got destroyed by the other team and their high level vehicles and weapons, and I had little to nothing to counter them with. I swore off Warzone that day, and I will never go back.
> > > > > > Grinding out points is easy. If you’re doing well and you win. That’s the kicker. In Warzone, it’s nigh on impossible to do well as a level 0. You’ve got to play for hours upon hours to be able to go toe to toe with the big boys, and by that time, you’ve probably stopped playing and moved on to another game.
> > > > >
> > > > > Warzone isn’t about balance though. If you want balance gameplay play arena. If you had a plasma pistol why didn’t you use some cover and noob combo them and then take their spknr prime?
> > > >
> > > > There is a difference between pure balance and having an equal playing field. Arena is balanced because, in most playlists, all players from the get-go are on equal terms. It is player/team skill that gives one side an edge over another.
> > > >
> > > > Warzone by nature isn’t exactly balanced, where your performance during a match gets you to higher REQ levels faster, thus giving you access to better gear sooner. The problem isn’t that someone got to REQ level 6 faster and is now out-ranging you from across the map with a DMR. The problem is that someone can go on a spree with a Prophet’s Bane that they got from a $10 microtransaction pack.
> > > >
> > > > And, sure, maybe if I spend a few hundred bucks on the loot boxes or grind multiple millions of REQ Points, I too can have a chance at a Prophet’s Bane certification. A chance. An RNG chance. I shouldn’t have to grind millions of points or spend more money for an advantage in a fun game mode. And before you say “Then don’t play Warzone.”, I bought this game, and I’m going to play whichever mode I damn-well please. Though I should never be put at a disadvantage against another player because even though we both bought the game, they either bought more or got lucky with RNG.
> > > >
> > > > Warzone could be unbalanced, but an equal playing field, if all players had access to all requisitions. No more one-time-use -Yoink- out of -Yoink- loot boxes. That way, not only would players/teams with higher skill have an edge and get more REQs faster, but any player could turn the tide by using any REQ they have access to. Not just the ones with better RNG luck, or more money to spend.
> > >
> > > Actually yes it is valid to say don’t play warzone if you aren’t willing to grind out points for pack or pay money for them. It isn’t that hard to grind out the points you need to unlock everything. Especially if you use the silver to gold method and take advantage of all the free packs available. To me it makes no difference how some one got their reqs. They still fought their way to that particular req level to use them. With the exception of turbo which is awesome fun to me.
> >
> > The argument “Just don’t play Warzone” IS invalid. The game is centered around Warzone. You cannot progress in-game without interaction with the loot box store, which is all about Warzone. Warzone exists to sell loot boxes, and so Warzone is 343’s top priority. Even if I stopped playing Warzone, that doesn’t stop it from taking attention and assets away from other modes and features of the game.
> >
> > But shame on me for not wanting to conform to the loot boxes, and I shouldn’t play a game mode that the game itself is centered around? Don’t tell people what they should and shouldn’t play. If someone buys a game, they can play whatever mode they please, and they have the right to criticize what they feel doesn’t work. You don’t have to agree with me, and I don’t have to agree with you, but telling others what they should and shouldn’t play is essentially trying to silence/belittle/invalidate their argument.
> >
> > If you don’t see a difference with how someone obtained their REQs, than good for you. The problem I have is that I can be killed in-game due to factors outside of my control. If I engage in a sniper-duel against someone of 100% equal skill with a regular Sniper Rifle, but they bought the Nornfang bundle, then they have bought a distinctive advantage over me that I cannot compete with. It doesn’t matter how fast they got to the REQ level requirement either, as there’s too many factors that effect how fast they get there. Not much of a fight when the whole enemy team is running around with ARs and Magnums while you got a Halo CE Pistol from a random REQ card, skilled or not.
>
> Actually yes you can progress in game without playing warzone. You can get all the same stuff unlocked by playing arena for points. It makes no difference. You gain RP and XP in arena. Again if you want skill and balanced play… Play arena. Warzone is about knowing what reqs to use to counter. Why would you try and counter a nornfang with a regular sniper rifle? I guess you could if you took a different position. But it’s best to use active camo and sneak up on them or use a banshee ultra and just bomb them.

I think you missed my point. Yes, you can progress in the game without playing Warzone, but general progression is linked directly to the loot box store, which heavily promotes Warzone, which the game and loot box microtransaction system is built around. Someone can play exclusively Arena and be fine, but they’ll still have to go through the cash store to open their progression rewards and buy to more loot boxes with their REQ points.

The Nornfang vs Sniper is just an example, no need to dissect it as if it will delegitimize my argument. The fact remains that Player A can pay their way to a distinctive in-game advantage over Player B. Or Player C can win the RNG REQ Pack lottery and get a SPNKr Prime certification early on, and can rack up a massive stock over time that not many others can compete with. Or are those arguments also subject to be picked apart because there’s a way to “counter” it?

Will I let the pay-for-power system of Warzone deter me from playing it? No. I bought the game, so I’m going to play all the game has to offer. Especially when that mode is the central focus-point of the game. And you know what? I enjoy Warzone because I find the unbalanced nature of it to be fun. Unbalance can still work if it is on an equal/fair playing field, but it doesn’t work when it’s on an unequal/unfair paying field.

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> Actually yes you can progress in game without playing warzone. You can get all the same stuff unlocked by playing arena for points. It makes no difference. You gain RP and XP in arena.

One thing about this that I would like to point out, it’s kind of going back to my original argument on the first page of this thread, Warzone was designed around the Req system and vice versa; that fact in and of itself is intrusive in the game. The main game mode in multiplayer is all about Req’s that has intruded on the design of the rest of the game.

You say go to Arena if you don’t like Warzone and you can still earn XP and RP to unlock items, but here’s the thing, the XP/RP earned in Arena compared to Warzone is difficult to ignore. I have mentioned this before on the forums a long time ago given that earning XP/RP in Arena is so low it is as if they are trying to drive you to Warzone. If the amount earned was close to being the same then I would agree with you, but it is clearly not.

This does make a difference. The player who is solely an Arena player will take longer to unlock all the items. That aspect alone is intruding on that player’s experience of the game. You might say boosts right? Those RP boosts are pretty sad. I think even a Legendary one only gives you 1,200 RP. I could be wrong. It has been so long since I earned one.

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For me the req system is good. With some changes it will be perfect. But in Halo 6 i hope that,in addition to the “Req system”, will present some object ecsclusive, that needing goals to be unlocked (i don’t know, for example doing an unfrigginbelievable!).

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Simply because a game type is not friendly to new players doesn’t mean the req system is intrusive. You can grind out points to get reqs from any game mode in the game. Since the req system is based off of chance and not skill or pay to get the best stuff, it means that anyone regardless of skill can get a shot at power weapons and good gear. I have never felt unfairly at a disadvantage for the random reqs i get playing warzone because everyone gets random reqs. An unfair systems like in Battlefront and Destiny 1 (I have no clue about destiny 2 tbh) are nothing like what we see in Halo 5.

That being said, i know many will say, “If you’ve played for a long time, you can get more gold packs with better gear that can wipe out noobs. That’s not fair!”
And to that i ask, why shouldn’t players who have played longer, be able to unlock bigger packs? And additionally, if new players want those things, they can buy loads of packs till they get the elite gear!

The purpose of paying for packs is so that if new players do not wish to grind out the req pool, they can buy their way there.
If anything, the req system allows new players to have a better shot in Warzone!

The req system is not perfect by any means and i would prefer Halo 6 looking more like Halo Reach. Buuuut, i understand why they made the system the way it is.

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> You say go to Arena if you don’t like Warzone and you can still earn XP and RP to unlock items, but here’s the thing, the XP/RP earned in Arena compared to Warzone is difficult to ignore. I have mentioned this before on the forums a long time ago given that earning XP/RP in Arena is so low it is as if they are trying to drive you to Warzone. If the amount earned was close to being the same then I would agree with you, but it is clearly not.
>
> This does make a difference. The player who is solely an Arena player will take longer to unlock all the items. That aspect alone is intruding on that player’s experience of the game. You might say boosts right? Those RP boosts are pretty sad. I think even a Legendary one only gives you 1,200 RP. I could be wrong. It has been so long since I earned one.

This for me hits the nail on the head as to why challenge based unlockables would be a welcome addition. I prefer Arena over Warzone. Though I run warzone for the RP/XP per match. I’d take “Get X headshots with this weapon to unlock X skin” in Arena all day.

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> Simply because a game type is not friendly to new players doesn’t mean the req system is intrusive. You can grind out points to get reqs from any game mode in the game.

Yes, strictly speaking, I brought up the issue of Warzone being unfriendly to new players as a separate issue from how intrusive the req system is. But, like Dax pointed out, the RP gained from arena playlists is dwarfed by how much you can get from Warzone game modes. In light of that, I think it’s fair to say it actually is intrusive in this manner.

> 2533274955181440;280:
> Since the req system is based off of chance and not skill or pay to get the best stuff, it means that anyone regardless of skill can get a shot at power weapons and good gear. I have never felt unfairly at a disadvantage for the random reqs i get playing warzone because everyone gets random reqs.

It’s not exactly accurate to say “everyone gets random reqs”. In reality, new players unlock garbage reqs, and veteran players unlock Ultra-rare, Legendary and Mythic reqs. So again, this is unfriendly to new players. If everyone unlocked random reqs, then it would be more fair, kind of like Super Fiesta is fair in its total randomness. But when it comes to unlocking reqs to use in Warzone, this is clearly not the case.

> 2533274955181440;280:
> An unfair systems like in Battlefront and Destiny 1 (I have no clue about destiny 2 tbh) are nothing like what we see in Halo 5.

Enough people in this thread have already made the “it’s not worse than other games” argument. The fact that other games might have more intrusive lootbox systems really has no bearing on this discussion.

> 2533274955181440;280:
> That being said, i know many will say, “If you’ve played for a long time, you can get more gold packs with better gear that can wipe out noobs. That’s not fair!”
> And to that i ask, why shouldn’t players who have played longer, be able to unlock bigger packs?

The reason why players who have played longer shouldn’t be able to unlock bigger packs is because that makes it unfriendly to new players, as has been pointed out.

> 2533274955181440;280:
> And additionally, if new players want those things, they can buy loads of packs till they get the elite gear!
>
> The purpose of paying for packs is so that if new players do not wish to grind out the req pool, they can buy their way there. If anything, the req system allows new players to have a better shot in Warzone!

Giving those new players an option to buy their way onto an equal playing field is far from an acceptable solution. Do you really think saying “it’s all ok because as long as they happen to be rich, this issue of Warzone being unfriendly to new players isn’t a problem” is an acceptable argument? Yes obviously the req system allows new players to pay their way to an equal playing field in Warzone, but that’s hardly a point in its favor. Let’s remember that if it wasn’t for Warzone, new players wouldn’t have to either grind or pay their way to an equal playing field in the first place.

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> The purpose of paying for packs is so that if new players do not wish to grind out the req pool, they can buy their way there. If anything, the req system allows new players to have a better shot in Warzone!

So what you’re saying is that in order to win, they gotta pay? Pretty sure there’s a name for something like that.

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> > > > > > > > > > Then don’t play that mode till you build a inventory. It’s like any other mode where new players are at a disadvantage to veteran players.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > If new players need to grind lots of hours in X game modes in order to be on an even playing field with veteran players in Y game modes, then I think it’s still fair to say Y game modes aren’t exactly friendly to new players, compared to X game modes in which new players start on an even playing field with veteran players. In that respect, it’s not like any other game mode where new players are at a disadvantage to veteran players. Remember I’m only talking about req arsenals, not skill or map knowledge.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Why does everything have to be fair? Is it really that bad that players have to actually play the game to get stuff in it? That players have to work their way up. Granted it sucks that it’s RNG for their stuff but it’s really not that hard to grind out points for packs.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It’s not fun when you’re being wiped across the floor because your opponent got lucky in a Daily Pack and unlocked a SPNKr Prime, and all you got was a plasma pistol.
> > > > > > > It creates a hideous imbalance, and new players don’t want to play it. I speak from experience, as I got into Warzone, and immediately got destroyed by the other team and their high level vehicles and weapons, and I had little to nothing to counter them with. I swore off Warzone that day, and I will never go back.
> > > > > > > Grinding out points is easy. If you’re doing well and you win. That’s the kicker. In Warzone, it’s nigh on impossible to do well as a level 0. You’ve got to play for hours upon hours to be able to go toe to toe with the big boys, and by that time, you’ve probably stopped playing and moved on to another game.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Warzone isn’t about balance though. If you want balance gameplay play arena. If you had a plasma pistol why didn’t you use some cover and noob combo them and then take their spknr prime?
> > > > >
> > > > > There is a difference between pure balance and having an equal playing field. Arena is balanced because, in most playlists, all players from the get-go are on equal terms. It is player/team skill that gives one side an edge over another.
> > > > >
> > > > > Warzone by nature isn’t exactly balanced, where your performance during a match gets you to higher REQ levels faster, thus giving you access to better gear sooner. The problem isn’t that someone got to REQ level 6 faster and is now out-ranging you from across the map with a DMR. The problem is that someone can go on a spree with a Prophet’s Bane that they got from a $10 microtransaction pack.
> > > > >
> > > > > And, sure, maybe if I spend a few hundred bucks on the loot boxes or grind multiple millions of REQ Points, I too can have a chance at a Prophet’s Bane certification. A chance. An RNG chance. I shouldn’t have to grind millions of points or spend more money for an advantage in a fun game mode. And before you say “Then don’t play Warzone.”, I bought this game, and I’m going to play whichever mode I damn-well please. Though I should never be put at a disadvantage against another player because even though we both bought the game, they either bought more or got lucky with RNG.
> > > > >
> > > > > Warzone could be unbalanced, but an equal playing field, if all players had access to all requisitions. No more one-time-use -Yoink- out of -Yoink- loot boxes. That way, not only would players/teams with higher skill have an edge and get more REQs faster, but any player could turn the tide by using any REQ they have access to. Not just the ones with better RNG luck, or more money to spend.
> > > >
> > > > Actually yes it is valid to say don’t play warzone if you aren’t willing to grind out points for pack or pay money for them. It isn’t that hard to grind out the points you need to unlock everything. Especially if you use the silver to gold method and take advantage of all the free packs available. To me it makes no difference how some one got their reqs. They still fought their way to that particular req level to use them. With the exception of turbo which is awesome fun to me.
> >
> > Actually yes you can progress in game without playing warzone. You can get all the same stuff unlocked by playing arena for points. It makes no difference. You gain RP and XP in arena. Again if you want skill and balanced play… Play arena. Warzone is about knowing what reqs to use to counter. Why would you try and counter a nornfang with a regular sniper rifle? I guess you could if you took a different position. But it’s best to use active camo and sneak up on them or use a banshee ultra and just bomb them.
>
> I think you missed my point. Yes, you can progress in the game without playing Warzone, but general progression is linked directly to the loot box store, which heavily promotes Warzone, which the game and loot box microtransaction system is built around. Someone can play exclusively Arena and be fine, but they’ll still have to go through the cash store to open their progression rewards and buy to more loot boxes with their REQ points.
>
> The Nornfang vs Sniper is just an example, no need to dissect it as if it will delegitimize my argument. The fact remains that Player A can pay their way to a distinctive in-game advantage over Player B. Or Player C can win the RNG REQ Pack lottery and get a SPNKr Prime certification early on, and can rack up a massive stock over time that not many others can compete with. Or are those arguments also subject to be picked apart because there’s a way to “counter” it?
>
> Will I let the pay-for-power system of Warzone deter me from playing it? No. I bought the game, so I’m going to play all the game has to offer. Especially when that mode is the central focus-point of the game. And you know what? I enjoy Warzone because I find the unbalanced nature of it to be fun. Unbalance can still work if it is on an equal/fair playing field, but it doesn’t work when it’s on an unequal/unfair paying field.

What progression is linked to the packs? None, unless you count unlocking stuff, which can be unlocked by points no matter which multiplayer playlist you play.

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> 2533274863544717;278:
> > 2533274816788253;274:
> > Actually yes you can progress in game without playing warzone. You can get all the same stuff unlocked by playing arena for points. It makes no difference. You gain RP and XP in arena.
>
> One thing about this that I would like to point out, it’s kind of going back to my original argument on the first page of this thread, Warzone was designed around the Req system and vice versa; that fact in and of itself is intrusive in the game. The main game mode in multiplayer is all about Req’s that has intruded on the design of the rest of the game.
>
> You say go to Arena if you don’t like Warzone and you can still earn XP and RP to unlock items, but here’s the thing, the XP/RP earned in Arena compared to Warzone is difficult to ignore. I have mentioned this before on the forums a long time ago given that earning XP/RP in Arena is so low it is as if they are trying to drive you to Warzone. If the amount earned was close to being the same then I would agree with you, but it is clearly not.
>
> This does make a difference. The player who is solely an Arena player will take longer to unlock all the items. That aspect alone is intruding on that player’s experience of the game. You might say boosts right? Those RP boosts are pretty sad. I think even a Legendary one only gives you 1,200 RP. I could be wrong. It has been so long since I earned one.

You earn a bit less XP and RP in arena because usually the games are shorter. Most Warzone games go over twenty minutes. Also one mode of the game being designed around reqs doesn’t make it intrusive if you ask me. If they made reqs and you don’t get to use them in the game anywhere what would be the point? That would make them useless.

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> 2533274812652989;283:
> > The purpose of paying for packs is so that if new players do not wish to grind out the req pool, they can buy their way there. If anything, the req system allows new players to have a better shot in Warzone!
>
> So what you’re saying is that in order to win, they gotta pay? Pretty sure there’s a name for something like that.

I like who people think if players buy packs that means they will win. As some one who bought some packs when the game first came out and now haven’t purchased a pack in well over a year I have noticed no difference at all if I win or lose a match. All the reqs in the world won’t guarantee you a win.

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> > 2533274812652989;283:
> > > The purpose of paying for packs is so that if new players do not wish to grind out the req pool, they can buy their way there. If anything, the req system allows new players to have a better shot in Warzone!
> >
> > So what you’re saying is that in order to win, they gotta pay? Pretty sure there’s a name for something like that.
>
> I like who people think if players buy packs that means they will win. As some one who bought some packs when the game first came out and now haven’t purchased a pack in well over a year I have noticed no difference at all if I win or lose a match. All the reqs in the world won’t guarantee you a win.

Pay2Win is short and concise, but it’s not the literal meaning.
P2GAAWCSBBBS is a lot longer and harder to pronounce, and remember to write, but it’s the literal meaning of what it stands for.

See, P2W means buying something which gives you an advantage against someone else. It pushes a player towards victory.
And yes, I do have the second acronym, not just random letters.

Pay 2 Get An Advantage Which Can Still Be Beaten By Skill