Replacing (or improving) the 'Betrayal' System

The betrayal boot system is archaic, inconsistent, and unfair. It punishes players for self-defense, doesn’t count if the betrayer doesn’t finish you off, and allows griefers to avoid boots by doing non-deadly things like destroying vehicles or hoarding power weapons. The question is, then, are there any other systems that would work for Halo?
I’m going to go through a couple of games I’ve played before to discuss how their systems might play out if implemented into Halo, what drawbacks would come with them, and the effects it may have on the community.

Counter Strike ‘damage’ system: Counter Strike uses a damage-based boot system that automatically kicks a player if they’ve done a significant amount of damage to a teammate. 3 kills on any teammate, 400 damage dealt (players have 100 health), or one kill in spawn gets you instantly booted from the game. This would obviously stop the abuse the current system gets where betrayers pop their victim’s shield and let the enemies kill them, but then we run into the issue of players intentionally getting hit by teammates to get them booted (which happens in CS:GO mainly with fire grenades) and with Halo’s many explosive weapons and high-damage weapons like snipers and gravity hammers, it might be too easy to run in front of a victim to get them booted instead. One way to counteract this is with a smart system, one that makes dealing damage to the enemy team immediately before or after detract from this friendly fire ‘score’, thus making accidental grenades less impactful than blasting teammates with rockets as they spawn. Often, serial betrayers will betray their teammates from a place of relative safety. Popping their shields from a distance with a DMR or lobbing a grenade at them while they leave spawn. This means they won’t always have quick access to enemies they could use to abuse this system, and it may be one way to stop such a system from intruding on normal gameplay.

Team Fortress 2 votekick system (yes I play a lot of valve games): TF2 uses a votekicking system where any player on your own team can call a vote, and your team votes whether or not to kick you. There is a cooldown afterwards where no votes can be called, after which the process can be repeated. (the player who called the vote must wait slightly longer, which stops players from abusing the system by calling the vote every time the cooldown is over to prevent the vote from getting called on themselves) This would give players the ability to kick teammates who do things like: destroy vehicles at the start of the match (usually because they’re faux-puissant who don’t like it when other people grab them first), or hoarding power weapons and hiding in some random corner of the map, or are generally being a nuisance to the entire team. Of course, this system works on the honor system. If the community is too toxic, people might start doing things like: purposefully voting out ‘bad’ players, calling votes on people you simply find annoying, or griefing by calling a random vote at the beginning of a round and accusing the person of hacking. So the question really is “Do we trust halo players with this power”

Other systems include a ‘smart engagement’ system, where the game tries to detect whether or not a player is engaging in combat with the enemy or with their teammates by trying to discriminate between attempts to shoot at enemies and attempts to shoot at allies. Fire too many shots in the direction of your teammates that aren’t also in the direction of the enemy, and that teammate gets the option to boot you, whether you hit them or not. This would stop people from griefing players by following them around and shooting constantly while only occasionally popping shots into their back, and also stops the other forms of griefing by their nature. Also biasing this system with ‘first shot’ detection that weighs shots fired at people with ‘bad engagement scores’ much lower. Essentially, if your karma is bad, shooting at you won’t lower someone else’s karma very much.

I’m sure 343i could come up with a better system than I can, but the question is if we as a community care enough about griefing to MAKE them do so. Now that infinite has been announced as a free-to-play title, I think they need to take in-game booting more seriously. Banning consistently -Yoink- players won’t be enough when they can make a free alt account and jump right back in, and the system we have now for booting players is laughably ineffective.

In my experience with voting, many players vote yes for -Yoink- and giggles. I also don’t really run into griefers very often though so I’m not the best person to speak on this.

> 2535469609708123;2:
> In my experience with voting, many players vote yes for -Yoink- and giggles. I also don’t really run into griefers very often though so I’m not the best person to speak on this.

TF2 had a problem with this a while ago, but it’s become less of a problem in recent years

Betrayal system should be a bit more sophisticated yeah. But a vote can become malicious quite quickly. The game needs to act as the detached arbiter of what circumstanced disqualify a player. It can just become too unfair otherwise.

Just report their bad behavior, enough players do they get a temporary ban. Voting system will never work. I don’t like the quit matchmaking ban for one reason only, I have open nat wired connection, but sometimes will get the error lost connection to host or matchmaking or whatever, or just get booted to main lobby post game screen where the stats screen won’t load but then get slapped with a temporary ban from matchmaking.

I signed in to say I was 12-0 on BTB in Halo 5 a couple nights ago and was using the sniper.

I picked up the new sniper and got betrayed and ended my perfection.

I hate the betrayal system.

The closest to a foolproof solution is just removing team damage. I’m not saying they should flat out remove team damage, but that is the reality of the situation. That said, a “ricochet” type solution may be a fair compromise. For those that don’t know, this solution is basically your bullets “ricochet” back toward you and do damage to you or split damage between the both of you. Basically, the idea is that you as the errant shooter takes the brunt of the damage so you can theoretically kill yourself. There are some negatives to this, notably grenades can be employed “strategically” so that you, outside of a fight between a teammate and an enemy who whittled each other down to 50% health, then throw a grenade which kills the enemy, saves your teammate who takes no damage and instead you take damage but since you weren’t in combat it’s safe since you were at no risk of dying. It’s the same

Otherwise there always be edge cases where the system allows abuse, doesn’t account for accidents/intent, or the system will be useless to prevent team griefing. It’s an impossibly fine line to get right.

I do remember COD doing a betrayal system one time where if you killed your teammates a couple times or did enough damage whenever you shoot them again after you die and not them. It would be interesting for halo to try that but then again with how fast paced halo is I can’t even count how many times I’ve been accidently killed by long range friendly grenades I would just like to see a better report system to report players for such things but also get to choose to never play with that person again as well.

My aggravation is that if an enemy does damage to you, then your teammate kills you, the enemy gets a point and it doesnt count as a betrayal. This is wrong.

The “Perfect” system: Reflective Friendly Fire.

  • If you shoot a teammate, the damage is applied to you. It would be like shooting yourself. - Players can’t pepper you with shots to weaken you, only weaken themselves. - Can no longer be betrayed for weapons. - Still run the risk of griefers jumping into your rockets in order to make you SD. - The risk of friendly fire is still important.

> 2533274816257608;9:
> My aggravation is that if an enemy does damage to you, then your teammate kills you, the enemy gets a point and it doesnt count as a betrayal. This is wrong.

This.

It’s so infuriating.

They should have a stat at the end of the game that shows a full breakdown of damage / kills… both vs the enemy and also vs team-mates.

We all understand that friendly fire is a part of Halo. It’s almost impossible not to do any… but show people how much they are doing so they can think about / modify the way they play. In my last game alone I accidentally stuck a team-mate (they ran right across in front of me as I threw it)… and shot someone from long distance as they jumped into my sights). It happens… but I would like to know if / when my trend is tending towards evil…

But then there is the unfriendly-friendly fire. The system should be able to detect shots and melees that are directly on a team-mate when no-one else is around. This needs to be dealt with harshly

In game… have a reporting system. Anytime a team-mate kills you or does more than 25% damage to your shields you get a quick voting option;

I see your team-mate has harmed you. Is this?
A - adventitious (ok)
B - suspicious (watch)
C - malicious (report)

Once a player gets enough B’s and C’s then the game can modify their behaviour; warnings. penalties (taking damage). not being able to pick up power weapons dropped by team-mates etc. And of course, if it continues, then boot and/or ban them.