Removing the DMR. back to the way it was.

Games Other Halo
1

I have played halo religiously since Halo 2 and loved every single one up until reach. Now dont get me wrong, overall halo 4 is great and i dont have many complaints other than ordinance and armor abilities, but personally I feel as if the DMR is holding halo back from being as awesome and competitive as it was.

First off, the BR is fairly inferior to the DMR in nearly every situation. Up close the dmr can be spammed. Far away the DMR is far to accurate and has much to long of range ( yes i know they are working on this). But overall the BR kind of sucks especially when compared to its dominance in previous games.

The DMR moved the ranges on halo from more medium-short to much longer and that seriously changed the dynamic of the gameplay and is pretty obvious on maps like ragnarok. Just by controlling the hill you could dominate the map and really only lose it if you got sniped, but now teams can just sit back with their DMR’s and get you off. It really ruined the map control aspect of halo that was so important in previous games. Taht and the randomization of the power weapon spawns and the awful idea of ordinance (wont get into that).

If the DMR were removed, it would push the gameplay back to the way it was in 2 and 3. The BR is the perfect multiplayer gun. Perfect up close, and the spread makes it balanced at long range. Using the BR almost exclusively again would speed up the gameplay and actually reward people who can hit what they are shooting at instead of rewarding spamming as the DMR ROF is way to high.

Probably going to get flammed for this, but anybody that is honestly a halo fan will probably agree with me

2

It’s almost as if no one has ever played Halo 1, where the Magnum had a similar effective range.

> Using the BR almost exclusively again would speed up the gameplay and actually reward people who can hit what they are shooting at instead of rewarding spamming as the DMR ROF is way to high.

How does using a weapon with poor accuracy and burst fire reward aim and punish spamming? If anything it does the opposite.

> Probably going to get flammed for this, but anybody that is honestly a halo fan will probably agree with me

Not really.

While the DMR does need a nerf, especially on small maps, BTB maps can work with a long range weapon.

In fact, having a long range weapon on BTB maps means less movement is required, so people have no reason to complain about slow base speed or maps being too big.

So BTB maps can be large while still supporting infantry play. It also lessens the need for gimmicks like sprint.

Sprint and DMR are a lot alike in that aspect. They do not harm BTB, but they do harm the 4v4 aspects of the game.

3

> If the DMR were removed, it would push the gameplay back to the way it was in 2 and 3.
>
> Probably going to get flammed for this, but anybody that is honestly a halo fan will probably agree with me

Except it wouldn’t because the BR sucks in comparison to Halo 3 and especially Halo 2. It’s funny that you say you’ve been playing Halo religiously since Halo 2. If that’s true then you would know that the BR in that game after Bungie updated it was, more accurate, had a faster kill time, could cross map, and actually had as much aim assist if not more than the Halo 4 DMR.

Also your last sentence is an attempt to speak for people, don’t do that. I’ve been playing Halo for a long time and I don’t want the DMR removed instead I want the other guns fixed.

https://forums.halowaypoint.com/yaf_postst205293_The-State-of-Halo-4-s-Weapon-Sandbox.aspx

4

First, if the DMR was removed from Halo, i would literally cry.
Second, IMO, i’m a DMR user and right off the back, if you were to put a BR and the DMR on a BTB field, I’m sorry, but the BR would have no chance.

5

> It’s almost as if no one has ever played Halo 1, where the Magnum had a similar effective range.

It was never that OP, you could get in a tank or banshee or warthog, the thing wouldn’t have been shredded as soon as it spawned. Dmr you get 5 seconds till your banshee is destroyed.

6

> > It’s almost as if no one has ever played Halo 1, where the Magnum had a similar effective range.
>
> It was never that OP, you could get in a tank or banshee or warthog, the thing wouldn’t have been shredded as soon as it spawned. Dmr you get 5 seconds till your banshee is destroyed.

The Magnum killed in 0.6 seconds.
Vehicles also gave little, if any, added protection.
The vehicles themselves were invincible, but the occupants were easily killed.

If anything, it takes longer to kill a vehicle user in this game than it does in Halo CE. Halo CE balanced this out by making vehicles invincible so they could be used over and over again.

Halo 2-4 balances out the added health by giving vehicles respawn times and making them destructible.

I would also point out Frags could topple warthogs in Halo Ce, and it was that game’s version of boarding.

7

> I have played halo religiously since Halo 2 and loved every single one up until reach. Now dont get me wrong, overall halo 4 is great and i dont have many complaints other than ordinance and armor abilities, but personally I feel as if the DMR is holding halo back from being as awesome and competitive as it was.
>
> First off, the BR is fairly inferior to the DMR in nearly every situation. Up close the dmr can be spammed. Far away the DMR is far to accurate and has much to long of range ( yes i know they are working on this). But overall the BR kind of sucks especially when compared to its dominance in previous games.
>
> The DMR moved the ranges on halo from more medium-short to much longer and that seriously changed the dynamic of the gameplay and is pretty obvious on maps like ragnarok. Just by controlling the hill you could dominate the map and really only lose it if you got sniped, but now teams can just sit back with their DMR’s and get you off. It really ruined the map control aspect of halo that was so important in previous games. Taht and the randomization of the power weapon spawns and the awful idea of ordinance (wont get into that).
>
> If the DMR were removed, it would push the gameplay back to the way it was in 2 and 3. The BR is the perfect multiplayer gun. Perfect up close, and the spread makes it balanced at long range. Using the BR almost exclusively again would speed up the gameplay and actually reward people who can hit what they are shooting at instead of rewarding spamming as the DMR ROF is way to high.
>
> Probably going to get flammed for this, but anybody that is honestly a halo fan will probably agree with me

Sorry pal, but I don’t very much like the one-gun-game you’re proposing. Not that H4 as is is much better, but it still beats BR-only gameplay. Don’t get me wrong, I love the BR and am on the same boat wishing for a DMR nerf, but even still I don’t like one-gun-games, even if it’s the BR. The entire sandbox should have to be utilized!

8

I agree with you OP. The thing is though that now there are people(like some of the other posters in this thread)that think this medium-long range DMR combat that was born out of Reach is how competitive halo should be.

Us players that started with the BR and liked using it were completely shoved aside in Reach, but now these DMR players feel they shouldn’t suffer the same fate in future halo games. Bungie had the perfect excuse (That it was destroyed with Reach along with armor abilities)setup for it to not return to. 343i just decided to ignore that for some reason.

9

> I agree with you OP. The thing is though that now there are people(like some of the other posters in this thread)that think this medium-long range DMR combat that was born out of Reach is how competitive halo should be.

As I said before, Reach didn’t invent long-range combat. The Magnum could be used at long range, and most of the maps added with Halo PC revolve around long ranges and big team sizes.

Yet, those maps all played fine, because they utilized good map design. In fact, it’s primarily why so many of those maps were remade with Reach’s forge, because they played similar to the originals.

> Us players that started with the BR and liked using it were completely shoved aside in Reach

Reach was basically a re-imaging of Halo CE. It followed the same basic formula (small but varied sandbox, a precise single-shot weapon, a health system) while adding new additions.

It only made sense for the BR to be left out.

Again though, people like to pretend that Halo 2 and Halo 3 were the only Halo games that ever existed, and anything not modeled after either one is heresy.

10

> The Magnum killed in 0.6 seconds.
> Vehicles also gave little, if any, added protection.
> The vehicles themselves were invincible, but the occupants were easily killed.
>
> If anything, it takes longer to kill a vehicle user in this game than it does in Halo CE.

Clearly you know nothing about halo. Halo ce point blank maybe 1 or 3 seconds.
Magnum never blow up warthogs or pinned entire teams down, weren’t easily killed. Don’t know what game you were playing unless using an aim bot or the player was completly terrible at the game but shooting a guy in a warthog while getting a shot at isn’t going to lead you with easy double kills.

Vehicles last longer? has most of the Halo4 gaming community played a completly different game to you?
All the vehicles are all in enemy spawn view, all the vehicle gets shredded by dmr’s or people spawning with plasma pistols. I have seen big team games where it took 5-10 minutes to take out a warthog or wraith (good team), in H4 I have seen them last miniumum of 2-3 minutes before being blown up (good/bad teams).
While Halo 1 it would take around 5-10 minutes for a warthog kill for an average team while good teams would last maybe 15 minutes.

H4 has the worst case of spawn camping, easy kills. Countless times I have seen the warthog survive from a ‘dud’ rocket launcher while the guy inside dies while I have seen dmr spamming taking out warthogs/banshees/mantis/tanks being destroyed in seconds while in H1/2/3 I have never seen such poor weapon choices that would destroy a game.

11

the halo 1 magnum doesnt belong in this conversation. It was not used for an xbox live title and never would have been.

Im not proposing a one gun game. I have no problem with the carbine or the light rifle, but the DMR seriously messes with the gameplay a nerf might help, but it would be far easier to just remove the gun from the game and give the BR a slight range buff.

BTW the DMR does reward spamming. You can shoot it much faster and the tiny, pathetic amount of bloom, it really doesnt matter. Atleast in Reach you actually had to time your shots more

12

> > The Magnum killed in 0.6 seconds.
> > Vehicles also gave little, if any, added protection.
> > The vehicles themselves were invincible, but the occupants were easily killed.
> >
> > If anything, it takes longer to kill a vehicle user in this game than it does in Halo CE.
>
> Clearly you know nothing about halo. Halo ce point blank maybe 1 or 3 seconds.
> Magnum never blow up warthogs or pinned entire teams down, weren’t easily killed. Don’t know what game you were playing unless using an aim bot or the player was completly terrible at the game but shooting a guy in a warthog while getting a shot at isn’t going to lead you with easy double kills.
>
> Vehicles last longer? has most of the Halo4 gaming community played a completly different game to you?
> All the vehicles are all in enemy spawn view, all the vehicle gets shredded by dmr’s or people spawning with plasma pistols. I have seen big team games where it took 5-10 minutes to take out a warthog or wraith (good team), in H4 I have seen them last miniumum of 2-3 minutes before being blown up (good/bad teams).
> While Halo 1 it would take around 5-10 minutes for a warthog kill for an average team while good teams would last maybe 15 minutes.
>
> H4 has the worst case of spawn camping, easy kills. Countless times I have seen the warthog survive from a ‘dud’ rocket launcher while the guy inside dies while I have seen dmr spamming taking out warthogs/banshees/mantis/tanks being destroyed in seconds while in H1/2/3 <mark>I have never seen such poor weapon choices</mark> that would destroy a game.

And I’ve never seen such bad grammar choices. On Topic: Vehicles in CE did last longer, yes, but not by much without first being toppled or being pelted by small arms fire (AR, Magnum).

13

> Clearly you know nothing about halo. Halo ce point blank maybe 1 or 3 seconds.

Clearly you know nothing, lol. Everyone knows the CE Magnum had a 0.6 killtime.

Here, take this.

> Magnum never blow up warthogs or pinned entire teams down, weren’t easily killed.

No, but it did not have to. I’m not exactly sure how vehicle damage resistance works, but 3 shots to a warthog or banshee (PC version) with the sniper rifle would kill the driver, while leaving the vehicle intact. It did not take many magnum shots either.

> Vehicles last longer? has most of the Halo4 gaming community played a completly different game to you?

It takes 2 whole magazines to destroy a ghost.
In Halo CE you could kill the user for much less.

The thing that separates the two is also hitboxes. In Halo CE, shooting the vehicle can hurt the driver. In Halo 4, you have to shoot the driver to hurt the driver.

> the halo 1 magnum doesnt belong in this conversation. It was not used for an xbox live title and never would have been.

You’re right.

Instead it was ported to the PC and had a significant online following.

But regardless, tons of Halo CE tournaments were held for the console version alone.

Also I’m rofling hard at the thought of a DMR pinning an entire team down. Maybe if the entire team was using AR’s, but otherwise that is such an outrageous claim.

14

Ramir has some good points. I can shoot the gas cans off a warthog, and the driver is not affected, whereas in CE, I could pull out a pistol and 3 shot a guy in a ghost. The DMR can stay. Things change, and besides, even if I’m not looking forward to mastering for commendation purposes, it still can be left just so I can pick it up later and say, Gee, I had good times with this weapon.

15

I could say the exact same thing about the BR. It is holding Halo back from being as great as it was in CE.

The BR just slowed down the overall pace of the game. 343 brought back the BR to bring back memories of the old days, but nobody can see that the weapon has been nerfed and is now useless. The DMR is absolutely necessary for Halo to even think about going back to the greatness of CE. You can read further into this idea here.

CE’s Pistol was an accurate, fast-killing precision weapon. The DMR is similar, albeit easier and with less damage. The BR just promoted making the main weapon weak and inaccurate. It was bearable in Halo 2, but Halo 3 just went further with this idea that the utility weapon needs to be weak and inaccurate, while forcing power weapons to spawn even slower because the Sniper would be too overbearing on anything less than a 2 minute timer.

Overall, the BR caused Halo’s decline. It slowed the game down to make everything appeal to the masses.

16

Youre serious right? Youre saying the DMR sped the gameplay up? Right because going from a 4 shot to a 5 shot gun totatly means faster kills

17

> Youre serious right? Youre saying the DMR sped the gameplay up? Right because going from a 4 shot to a 5 shot gun totatly means faster kills

When the 5-shot rifle ultimately has a higher damage output per second compared to the 4-shot rifle, then yes.

Not to mention how the TU made Reach an overall better game, even when compared to Halo 3. Possibly even Halo 2.

18

> I have played halo religiously since Halo 2 and loved every single one up until reach. Now dont get me wrong, overall halo 4 is great and i dont have many complaints other than ordinance and armor abilities, but personally I feel as if the DMR is holding halo back from being as awesome and competitive as it was.
>
> First off, the BR is fairly inferior to the DMR in nearly every situation. Up close the dmr can be spammed. Far away the DMR is far to accurate and has much to long of range ( yes i know they are working on this). But overall the BR kind of sucks especially when compared to its dominance in previous games.
>
> The DMR moved the ranges on halo from more medium-short to much longer and that seriously changed the dynamic of the gameplay and is pretty obvious on maps like ragnarok. Just by controlling the hill you could dominate the map and really only lose it if you got sniped, but now teams can just sit back with their DMR’s and get you off. It really ruined the map control aspect of halo that was so important in previous games. Taht and the randomization of the power weapon spawns and the awful idea of ordinance (wont get into that).
>
> If the DMR were removed, it would push the gameplay back to the way it was in 2 and 3. The BR is the perfect multiplayer gun. Perfect up close, and the spread makes it balanced at long range. Using the BR almost exclusively again would speed up the gameplay and actually reward people who can hit what they are shooting at instead of rewarding spamming as the DMR ROF is way to high.
>
> Probably going to get flammed for this, <mark>but anybody that is honestly a halo fan will probably agree with me</mark>

My family and I are huge Halo fans!

We started out with halo Reach. Some time in 2011 when the purchased Halo CS (PC & XBox versions), Halo 2 (PC & XBox versions), Halo 3, Halo 3 ODST and Halo Wars. We have all the Red v Blue DVDs. We have novels and toys! Now we have Halo 4.

Yes, we are Halo fans!

What is key, though, is that our first Halo game was Halo Reach. We started our Halo journey,like so many others who started out with Halo Reach, and its DMR. We knew nothing of the BR which many of your seem to cling and speak fondly of. Many more still have started their Halo journey with Halo 4; they have the unique privilege of starting out with both the BR and DMR.

IMO, you have no more right, nor does anyone else, to hold themselves out as the only type or form of Halo fans. You, nor anyone else, has the right to say that a Halo fan would only want the BR and have the DMR gone. Your reality of a Halo fan does not exist. Like these forums, where there are many who take different views on each and every topic, so to are there many different types of Halo fans who having varying Halo favorites and likes and dislikes.

I am a Halo fan, just as you are, and I disagree with you!

343i,IMO, will disagree with you too. I predicted many things back on the Bungie forums which came to pass for Halo 4. I have predicted things since Halo 4 which have come to pass. I predict now, that future Halo games will have both the BR and DMR, as their are fans that like each and others still that like both.I happen to be one that enjoys both.

I am a Halo fan and you, nor anyone else, has a right to say otherwise.

19

> I have played halo religiously since Halo 2 and loved every single one up until reach. Now dont get me wrong, overall halo 4 is great and i dont have many complaints other than ordinance and armor abilities, but personally I feel as if the DMR is holding halo back from being as awesome and competitive as it was.
>
> First off, the BR is fairly inferior to the DMR in nearly every situation. Up close the dmr can be spammed. Far away the DMR is far to accurate and has much to long of range ( yes i know they are working on this). But overall the BR kind of sucks especially when compared to its dominance in previous games.
>
> The DMR moved the ranges on halo from more medium-short to much longer and that seriously changed the dynamic of the gameplay and is pretty obvious on maps like ragnarok. Just by controlling the hill you could dominate the map and really only lose it if you got sniped, but now teams can just sit back with their DMR’s and get you off. It really ruined the map control aspect of halo that was so important in previous games. Taht and the randomization of the power weapon spawns and the awful idea of ordinance (wont get into that).
>
> If the DMR were removed, it would push the gameplay back to the way it was in 2 and 3. The BR is the perfect multiplayer gun. Perfect up close, and the spread makes it balanced at long range. Using the BR almost exclusively again would speed up the gameplay and actually reward people who can hit what they are shooting at instead of rewarding spamming as the DMR ROF is way to high.
>
> <mark>Probably going to get flammed for this, but anybody that is honestly a halo fan will probably agree with me
[/quote]
</mark>
> I am sick and tired of people saying that only true Halo fans want the DMR removed. Be quiet!! You are disrespecting several of your fellow community members by stating something as hideous as that. I a OK with the DMR, it may be OP but that is because it is a marksmen’s rifle. The Battle Rifle can easily win against the DMR, I have did so many times while trying to master the BR. I disregard those who have opinions and state that their opinion makes them true Halo fans. Therefore I disregard your opinion.

20

> I could say the exact same thing about the BR. It is holding Halo back from being as great as it was in CE.
>
> The BR just slowed down the overall pace of the game. 343 brought back the BR to bring back memories of the old days, but nobody can see that the weapon has been nerfed and is now useless. The DMR is absolutely necessary for Halo to even think about going back to the greatness of CE. You can read further into this idea here.
>
> CE’s Pistol was an accurate, fast-killing precision weapon. The DMR is similar, albeit easier and with less damage. The BR just promoted making the main weapon weak and inaccurate. It was bearable in Halo 2, but Halo 3 just went further with this idea that the utility weapon needs to be weak and inaccurate, while forcing power weapons to spawn even slower because the Sniper would be too overbearing on anything less than a 2 minute timer.
>
> Overall, t<mark>he BR caused Halo’s decline.</mark> It slowed the game down to make everything appeal to the masses.

Having both the Battle Rifle and the DMR adds variety to the game. I strongly disagree that the BR is useless. If it was useless nobody would ever get kills with and nobody would ever used it.