Removing Sprint.

Games Other Halo
1

A lot of long time Halo fans dislike Sprint. Can’t say I’m a big fan either. Some parts of the population feel particularly resentful of the feature, like the competitive community of the Throwdown playlist. The problem is that it will break the game into two very different forms of play. The relatively small competitive community with there specific maps and ODs, then everybody else. Secondly maps might have to be redesigned to accustom sprint. Probably wouldn’t be hard at all, but worth mentioning.

So what if we removed sprint from Legendary and Throwdown. I would even remove it from 2v2 as well. I feel like sprint does help in BTB matches. But if we had a few playlists like this w/out sprint I feel like it would grow and grow. Maybe an FFA playlist without sprint, stuff like that.

Anyway, Legendary is kind of a throwback playlist. Throwdown is too. I think it would be great to remove sprint from both playlists.

2

I do too. I don’t understand why they won’t even try disabling sprint to see if they got good freedback. We know removing it is feasible so what does 343i have to lose?

3

if that went(in any playlist) youd have to do away with most other abilities due to their balance. 2 guys propel upwards at a guy with jetpack, now he has the option to turn and book it or stand ground. sprint is a great counter for invis ambushes, jetpack, etc.

but I do agree it doesn’t need to be in halo and id like to see sprintless playlists.

4

> if that went(in any playlist) youd have to do away with most other abilities due to their balance. 2 guys propel upwards at a guy with jetpack, now he has the option to turn and book it or stand ground. sprint is a great counter for invis ambushes, jetpack, etc.
>
> but I do agree it doesn’t need to be in halo and id like to see sprintless playlists.

Well the reason why he said he’d like to see it in Throwback and Legendary Slayer is because of the fact that there are no armor abilities in either playlist, so your first point isn’t really an issue.

5

true, im stoned so not much tact. then if it settles better with ya, then yes id like to NOT see it in those playlists either. ears feel better?

6

I really dislike sprint, but i don’t want it to be removed from this game because it would really break maps. Every map in Halo 4 has bee enlarged to accommodate sprint removing it would just slow down the game to a crawl. Could you imagine only being able walking every time down red or blue hall on haven? Or how about walking from beach to bottom gold on Abandon. The halls in Adrift would become a deathtrap because it would take so long to get down them and you are bottleneck perfectly for the enemy without any option to escape through.

“Well then just up the player movement speed.” If we up the player movement speed to a speed that would work on these large 4v4 maps strafing and change of direction suffer greatly. Halo has an acceleration and deceleration speeds when you change directions. Which means you slow down when switching directions and cannot make any sudden movements. The faster you go the longer it take for you to change direction. Having a fast straight line speed and a slow change of direction speed makes it feel as if you are ice skating and nullifies any strafe because it will take to long for you momentum to slow making you an easier target.

We just have to accept sprint in halo 4 and hope that it is gone in Halo 5.

7

>

I find myself agreeing with most of your posts this morning. I would add that another problem becomes having different physics settings in various play lists. When you switch play lists, the movement shouldn’t feel foreign.

8

Exactly. Remove it from Legendary and Throwdown. It’s not as if we are trying to force our anti-sprint agenda on the entire player base, just apply it to the playlists that are meant to be the most competitive and the most classic. 2 playlists out of more than a dozen doesn’t seem like too much to ask especially when a majority of the online Halo community has shown they are displeased with the mechanic. It is worth trying if nothing else.

The argument against the removal of sprint is simply hypothetical as it has yet to occur (except in alterations of the game which cannot be named, though the changes do seem to work for a good number of dev maps from what I’ve seen). Either way we should avoid preconceived notions. Let’s implement a sprint free playlist and then decide whether maps are broken at 120-125% movement speed. If they are, forge offers solutions. No matter the outcome 343 can at least say they tried instead of seeming stubborn.

This shouldn’t be decided by hypothetical arguments in a forum. It should be implemented and tested, and the game population can decide for themselves. No need for us to decide for everyone. Implement a sprint free playlist and see how it goes.

9

I like Sprint as a default action for all players. Keeps things interesting. What I don’t like is the perk that allows unlimited sprinting, that’s what bothers me.

10

What they need to do is make it so if your sprinting and you get shot your forced out of sprint. And after a couple seconds you can sprint again. But then that would ruin their new armor mod the one that you Marian your full speed when shot while sprinting.

11

If you were to remove sprint, ramp up the base speed, ramp up the player FoV, and add head bobbing/blur, no one would notice the difference in ‘immersion’ and it would be much better for gameplay…

12

> If you were to remove sprint, ramp up the base speed, ramp up the player FoV, and add head bobbing/blur, no one would notice the difference in ‘immersion’ and it would be much better for gameplay…

Exactly.

13

I support the test of having a non sprint play list added, just as we have had Team Throwdown, Legendary Slayer and other old type Halo 3 throwback things added to Halo 4. That way, we can so how much the idea is actually not supported by the majority of the Halo 4 playing population and, the idea of having no sprint, is just another forum supported thing which never plays out well in actual playing population numbers once launched.

Thus, with teh facts then shown for all to see, that is, IMO,a low populated play list, sprint will be safe and will be in all future Halo MM games, as it has been for a number of years now with Halo Reach and Halo 4.

Even Ghandi and that Halo Council stated in one of their diatribe videos that sprint is here to stay and they can live with it, although they don’t particularly like it!

14

> I support the test of having a non sprint play list added, just as we have had Team Throwdown, Legendary Slayer and other old type Halo 3 throwback things added to Halo 4. That way, we can so how much the idea is actually not supported by the majority of the Halo 4 playing population and, the idea of having no sprint, is just another forum supported thing which never plays out well in actual playing population numbers once launched.
>
> Thus, with teh facts then shown for all to see, that is, IMO,a low populated play list, sprint will be safe and will be in all future Halo MM games, as it has been for a number of years now with Halo Reach and Halo 4.
>
> Even Ghandi and that Halo Council stated in one of their diatribe videos that sprint is here to stay and they can live with it, although they don’t particularly like it!

Ow, your skewed assumption hit me square in the head.

Sure, let’s take an ideal situation that suits your cause perfectly, already set up to fail for the opposition, let it play out, and then pretend that the results are 100% accurate and unbiased.

Haven’t we already established that most of the remaining population playing Halo 4 plays Infinity gametypes? These include sprint. Any non-infinity playlists are already at low populations. I don’t want to hear speculation as to why, that is not the point of this post!. So your solution is to introduce a non-sprint playlist into a game whose current player base HEAVILY favors sprint? Color me unconvinced.

IF Halo 4 had just come out, and we had both types of playlists AT LAUNCH, and the data showed over time that the majority favored sprint, then I would accept it for what it is. But since you’re picking a battle that you will obviously win, and one which doesn’t prove anything, I am forced to completely disregard this weighted experiment of yours, and suggest that you come up with a more evenly matched sprint vs. non-sprint test. Unfortunately, that won’t likely happen until Halo 5 is released, so you’ll have to wait until then.

This was a very opportunistic approach to this discussion. I wouldn’t advertise ice cream at KFC, find that most prefer to eat chicken, and then conclude that few people like ice cream.

15

> > snip
>
> Fair enough!
>
> Anyway, for me, as I have stated before, the only thing I would say that failed Halo 3 MM, and if I had to pick just one out of the multitude of problems with Halo 3 MM, the one that I could not stand most is the lack of sprint. Bungie did well introducing sprint to Halo Reach. 343i kept sprint…and, sprint is here to stay.
>
> Sure, have two sets of play lists/game modes for future Halo MM games. I have been stating that for a few months now here. On launch day, as I have said previously, there should be the Infinity style play lists/game modes with even more AAs, tac packages, support upgrades added to what we already have. And, also play lists/game modes which have the no sprint, forced load-outs, slow snail pace, on map weapons etc Halo 3 R.I.P. style stuff for those that like that.
>
> 343i has proven over the past months that both styles can coexist side by side each other. I am confident that 343i is full aware that for any future Halo MM games to work and succeed, both styles of play/preference must be ready to go on launch day(s). I am confident that 343i is aware that not to do so will be a huge mistake.
>
> I also believe that 343i knows that Halo MM is a very small component of the Haloverse, and that the campaign is all that the majority care about. Even so, sprint will stay but tehre will be no sprint options.
>
> Anyone who thinks that there will be player populations rivaling Halo 3 days are delusional.The larger part of the Halo 3 MM population actually left during Halo 3 MM days, before Halo Reach ever came out. The millions that played Halo 3 MM did not turn up on launch day,or subsequent to it, to play Halo Reach MM. Sprint and AAs in Halo Reach, therefore, cannot be the blame. Rather, all the huge problems with Halo 3 MM and other external factors are. The huge myth created on these forums about As, sprint etc being the cause of the problems with Halo Reach and Halo 4 are just that, myth. The real problem was Halo 3 MM itself.
>
> Sprint is here to stay and that is good.
>
> But, non sprint play options must be in future Halo MM games too.
>
> Most of all, the Halo 3 MM myths must desist.

16

Sprint can’t be removed from Throwdown and Ghost has explained why. No Sprint is a modded gametype and he can’t test those. Plus there is the issue of movement speed. Almost everyone agrees with H4’s maps 120 is too slow without sprint, but some say 130 is too fast so naturally 125 would be a nice place to start testing. Problem is you would have to mod it again to get 125 speed, which again Ghost can’t really test modded gametypes.

Plus for no sprint he would have to start almost from scratch again as far as designing the gametypes. So between the modding, which he can’t do, and all the redesigning, which would take a lot of work, no sprint in Throwdown is really unfeasible.

As for no sprint in Legendary sure 343i could do that but it would then be too different from everything else and I don’t think that’s their goal.

I think all of you guys should start accepting no sprint in H4 is a lost battle and go spam the H5 forum asking for it in that game.

17

> > > snip
> >
> > Fair enough!
> >
> > Anyway, for me, as I have stated before, the only thing I would say that failed Halo 3 MM, and if I had to pick just one out of the multitude of problems with Halo 3 MM, the one that I could not stand most is the lack of sprint. Bungie did well introducing sprint to Halo Reach. 343i kept sprint…and, sprint is here to stay.
> >
> > Sure, have two sets of play lists/game modes for future Halo MM games. I have been stating that for a few months now here. On launch day, as I have said previously, there should be the Infinity style play lists/game modes with even more AAs, tac packages, support upgrades added to what we already have. And, also play lists/game modes which have the no sprint, forced load-outs, slow snail pace, on map weapons etc Halo 3 R.I.P. style stuff for those that like that.
> >
> > 343i has proven over the past months that both styles can coexist side by side each other. I am confident that 343i is full aware that for any future Halo MM games to work and succeed, both styles of play/preference must be ready to go on launch day(s). I am confident that 343i is aware that not to do so will be a huge mistake.
> >
> > I also believe that 343i knows that Halo MM is a very small component of the Haloverse, and that the campaign is all that the majority care about. Even so, sprint will stay but tehre will be no sprint options.
> >
> > Anyone who thinks that there will be player populations rivaling Halo 3 days are delusional.The larger part of the Halo 3 MM population actually left during Halo 3 MM days, before Halo Reach ever came out. <mark>The millions that played Halo 3 MM did not turn up on launch day,or subsequent to it, to play Halo Reach MM. Sprint and AAs in Halo Reach, therefore, cannot be the blame. Rather, all the huge problems with Halo 3 MM and other external factors are. The huge myth created on these forums about As, sprint etc being the cause of the problems with Halo Reach and Halo 4 are just that, myth. The real problem was Halo 3 MM itself.</mark>
> >
> > <mark>Sprint is here to stay and that is good.</mark>
> >
> > But, non sprint play options must be in future Halo MM games too.
> >
> > Most of all, the Halo 3 MM myths must desist.
>
> Ok I don’t know where this came from in your head, but yes, there were millions of unique players to play halo 3, but reach’s launch population did reach 600k.
>
> I don’t know how you can say that just because every one of those unique players from halo 3 wasn’t online concurrently at launch day means that they left the game, and I also have no idea how you can say/know that those players never showed up to play reach. Im sure there were AT LEAST a million unique players for halo reach too.
>
> But then you go on to say that there is NO WAY that armor abilities could be to blame for any change in population, even though they were/are very game altering from original trilogy halo? There is no way that you can know that.
>
> And then you blame “all the huge problems with halo 3” on the population of halo reach dropping from 600k to 80k, and halo 4 from 400k to 30k when they are their own games, who saw their own individual player bases, and also saw those players leave the game for whatever reason.
>
> Its ludicrous.
>
> And on the second highlighted portion, you don’t know that. Nothing within the game has been confirmed. Not even the title.

18

one word. FORGE.

what could not be donein forge to fix this? to make it so no sprint would not “just slow down the game”

> I really dislike sprint, but i don’t want it to be removed from this game because it would really break maps. Every map in Halo 4 has bee enlarged to accommodate sprint removing it would just slow down the game to a crawl.

19

> Anyway, for me, as I have stated before, the only thing I would say that <mark>failed Halo 3 MM</mark>, and if I had to pick just one out of the multitude of problems with Halo 3 MM, the one that I could not stand most is the lack of sprint. Bungie did well introducing sprint to Halo Reach. 343i kept sprint…and, sprint is here to stay.

Other games must have been awful then. You make it sound like Halo 3 had problems that made it close to unplayable.

> Anyone who thinks that there will be player populations rivaling Halo 3 days are delusional. <mark>The larger part of the Halo 3 MM population actually left during Halo 3 MM days, before Halo Reach ever came out. The millions that played Halo 3 MM did not turn up on launch day,or subsequent to it, to play Halo Reach MM.</mark> Sprint and AAs in Halo Reach, therefore, cannot be the blame. Rather, all the huge problems with Halo 3 MM and other external factors are. The huge myth created on these forums about As, sprint etc being the cause of the problems with Halo Reach and Halo 4 are just that, myth. The real problem was Halo 3 MM itself.

Where do you get this from? Have you seen statistics somewhere? I’d like to see them, or are they just things you pull from your head trying to make your “facts” true. Either way, would need a source on that wouldn’t we? Then again, you abandon ship quite frequently when a source is wanted for those silly claims.

I like how you blame a game that stood on top of the XBL charts for years for Halo’s decline in population.

I like how somehow you claim that Halo 3 put away Halo fans.

> Most of all, the Halo 3 MM myths must desist.

Why don’t you bust them then? And do it properly this time, with sources provided from liable sites. Prove that millions of Halo fans abandoned Halo with Halo 3 and didn’t turn up for Reach or Halo 4.

I clearly remember you shouting out how the weapon update would drive off players in droves, yet there wasn’t a change in the population at all. If anything, there seems to be a sligt slight increase in peak population.

Or will you perhaps claim that a lot of Halo 4 fans were driven off, but were replaced by new players and old players who wanted the update more than ever? It does sound like something you could pull out.

20

> Fair enough!
>
> Anyway, for me, as I have stated before, the only thing I would say that failed Halo 3 MM, and if I had to pick just one out of the multitude of problems with Halo 3 MM, the one that I could not stand most is the lack of sprint. Bungie did well introducing sprint to Halo Reach. 343i kept sprint…and, sprint is here to stay.

Here you are, at it again, making radical claims that Halo 3 matchmaking was a failure, and while it did have a few problems, there certainly were not a “multitude” of them. It was pretty successful, as past population data has shown (and can still be found). And haven’t you openly stated that you started playing Halo with Halo: Reach? How can you state such things about Halo 3’s multiplayer if you have barely played it (if at all)?

> Sure, have two sets of play lists/game modes for future Halo MM games. I have been stating that for a few months now here. On launch day, as I have said previously, there should be the Infinity style play lists/game modes with even more AAs, tac packages, support upgrades added to what we already have. And, also play lists/game modes which have the no sprint, forced load-outs, slow snail pace, on map weapons etc Halo 3 R.I.P. style stuff for those that like that.

If you didn’t intentionally put negative emphasis on the no-sprint side for the sake of rhetoric, I might actually agree with you. Have an objective view for a change, please.

> 343i has proven over the past months that both styles can coexist side by side each other. I am confident that 343i is full aware that for any future Halo MM games to work and succeed, both styles of play/preference must be ready to go on launch day(s). I am confident that 343i is aware that not to do so will be a huge mistake.

Holy hell I spoke too soon! This is probably the most intelligent and unbiased thing I have heard out of you. I agree with this!

> I also believe that 343i knows that Halo MM is a very small component of the Haloverse, and that the campaign is all that the majority care about. Even so, sprint will stay but tehre will be no sprint options.

…and we’re back to radical claims. I’d like to know your logic behind these views, and how you came to these conclusions. Also, your last sentence once again belittles no-sprint gameplay. It’s fine if you don’t agree, but stay objective here.

> Anyone who thinks that there will be player populations rivaling Halo 3 days are delusional.The larger part of the Halo 3 MM population actually left during Halo 3 MM days, before Halo Reach ever came out. The millions that played Halo 3 MM did not turn up on launch day,or subsequent to it, to play Halo Reach MM. Sprint and AAs in Halo Reach, therefore, cannot be the blame. Rather, all the huge problems with Halo 3 MM and other external factors are. The huge myth created on these forums about As, sprint etc being the cause of the problems with Halo Reach and Halo 4 are just that, myth. The real problem was Halo 3 MM itself.

Given a well-developed Halo game, the populations could actually exceed Halo 3’s ceiling. Please don’t start this whole delusion again where people in one Halo game suddenly disappear and don’t play the next one. May as well copy and paste from here.

I don’t care to elaborate on the rest of the paragraph, anyone who reads it aloud can recognize the lack of logical thinking to make such claims.

> Sprint is here to stay and that is good.
>
> But, non sprint play options must be in future Halo MM games too.

Half-and-half please. Not: sprint with no-sprint options. The former is the most realistic approach to appease both sides.

> Most of all, the Halo 3 MM myths must desist.

…/facepalm
Just start focusing on ways to improve Halo instead of badgering Halo 3 all the time.

> Sprint can’t be removed from Throwdown and Ghost has explained why. No Sprint is a modded gametype and he can’t test those. Plus there is the issue of movement speed. Almost everyone agrees with H4’s maps 120 is too slow without sprint, but some say 130 is too fast so naturally 125 would be a nice place to start testing. Problem is you would have to mod it again to get 125 speed, which again Ghost can’t really test modded gametypes.
>
> Plus for no sprint he would have to start almost from scratch again as far as designing the gametypes. So between the modding, which he can’t do, and all the redesigning, which would take a lot of work, no sprint in Throwdown is really unfeasible.
>
> As for no sprint in Legendary sure 343i could do that but it would then be too different from everything else and I don’t think that’s their goal.
>
> I think all of you guys should start accepting no sprint in H4 is a lost battle and go spam the H5 forum asking for it in that game.

Lightning Flag in Action Sack is a no-sprint playlist, so the option is very much there, but not accessible to us. Ghost has some pull when it comes to Throwdown, as he basically controls the settings. If he says sprint is out, it’s out. The reason for it staying with the most recent settings change, as I understand it, was because of poor compatibility with on-disc maps. Understandable, but the maps are still playable.

Movement speed is not a mod. It is an easily accessible custom game option, however 125% speed is not an option. Maybe this is why you mentioned that it needed to be modded but I wasn’t sure.

I think that some players who support no-sprint just want to get a few gametypes out there in Halo 4 without sprint, and maybe get some feedback in time for Halo 5 for 343i to see regarding their experience.