Remove Skill Based Matchmaking from social games!

Games Halo Infinite
, ,
63

I’m not sure but it seems to me that the FFA playlist and LSS share the same MMR with it being Solo. I just had a quick look at my MMR in games and my first game of LSS gave me a score of 1046.

Then for team games I can only see MMR for the team rather the individual.

I’m going to jump on a bit later and test out the FFA and LSS MMR and see if they are one of the same.

With team games unless you can point out where my individual MMR is I’m might have to assume that you can’t see it or it’s the same as your Individual.

64

HAHAHAHAHAH its my smurf account. I just play to practise and chill on that but i dont really play much atm all i do is challenges . I mean since i got onyx in a day and got my rewards i only got time for weekly rewards.

65

Appears to be separate MMR’s.

Playing alternate LSS and RP;

  • MMR for LSS = 564 → 370 → 310
  • MMR for RP = 850 → 852 → 851

I’m really not very good at LSS.

And RP I’ve played a bit - but use it for warm up and challenges. It’s a “mature” MMR so it’s not going to change a lot unless I do really badly or really well.

66

Peak 1600 Onyx is bad, yes. That’s terrible for someone trying to flex.

2k Onyx both seasons in crossplay, on this gamertag. You aren’t good, stop insulting people.

68

Terrible idea. You people don’t even know what SBMM does, and it shows.

69

I just had a few games - 10 rumble bits 2 LSS and then de ranked a few rumble pits.

What I can see that MMR score on Halo Data Hive - seems to me tracking damage dealt… and Damage/Death.

Your score and mine in LSS is lower due to lower damage dealt although there is also less kills and less deaths in the game too compared with FFA.

I think everybody’s score will be lower unless you’re going 20-6 in every game.

On HDH, the MMR score under your name just gives you your last solo game whether it was in LSS or FFA it doesn’t discriminate between playlist.

The scoring is very similar to Halo Reach where you could see your visible MMR when playing the game which was next to your kills. If you remember ten years ago…

On my first six games I went from 1047 to 1422 then I got matched with 1500s - 1700s did badly very low kills and damage dealt and I dropped down to 1060 again.

It fluctuates loads during games depending on your performance. Especially it being based on performance with in each game.

When my score was around 1300-1450 for three of the games my damage dealt was around 5000-6000 per game. When my score was around 1000-1100 it was about 4000 damage dealt.

Interesting though.

But I think I would like to conclude that MMR isn’t per playlist it’s per game. Which means yes you probably can lower your MMR in bot games. But it wouldn’t take very long to raise your MMR once you start playing ranked again. I don’t see much benefit — maybe one or two games.

However if CSR follows MMR quite tightly it’s not very forgiving, which has been happening when players drop loads after losing a match. Although I think it has got better in season 2.

70

Anyone who tells me that sbmm in social is loose is absolutely wrong. SBMM in social team slayer is extremely tight. I’ve played two matches today in team slayer. In each game there were at least 4 players who have a peak rank in Onyx.

Like, I’m sorry, but it’s just not true. One thing that is true is that quick play is less strict, but all of the other social playlists are just super sweaty. I’m having to hit perfects constantly in order to get kills at all.

To me this is the number one problem in this game. Punishing players for getting good at the game. I’ve just finished a -Yoink!- week of work, I want to relax. I don’t want to play tournament style halo….

If I did I would go to ranked

2 Likes
71

Well, isn’t Quick Play also part of social?

Also:

Doesn’t say that much, since you are not telling what those other 4 were and also Onyx has a huge area, so within Onyx rank you can already have clear skill differences.

Because you are within the better X percentage, players there are way better to hit shots then in the lower X percentage obviously.

It ‘punishes’ you just as much as everybody else, since you are being put with people within a certain range of your skill. Everybody is treated the same.
The game is just refusing to punish everybody else, what the alternative is. Everybody deserves a playable match and not to only function as personal cannon fodder for the entitled better players.

1 Like
72

You have clearly completely missed the point that this is not a ranked mode, and therefore putting the top 15% of players together constantly 4 shotting each other does not create a very social experience, it creates ranked v2.0. I am not playing to my peak level most of the time, and that’s because I don’t want to, I want to relax. That is when I used to play social in older games. Now social is just ranked with different weapons.

To get to onyx at all you have to be very good player in the context of the whole population, top 5-10%. That’s why people grind ranked. Genuinely, what is the point of social if you are against the same players as in ranked.

1 Like
73

You have clearly missed the point what ranked and/or social is. Social is just the base game, where ranked is nothing less then the base game where you can earn/lose a rank, so your performance matters. That is the sole difference between them. If a developer want to make more differences, they can, but that is the only difference that makes the real distinction.

Putting them against lesser players constantly 4 shotting the lesser players and stomping them is definitely not social experience. Social is not entitled better players stomping lesser players.
Social is about not having consequences if you don’t win, so it takes away the stress of that. It doesn’t mean that therefore you deserve to get stomped if you’re not one of the better players, or that you are entitled to easy kills.

Apparently you do, because the MMR is per playlist, so if you played worse on social, you would get a lower MMR and therefore get easier opponents. However, if you don’t, you get the same opponents. So apparently you haven’t been playing less, you just want easier kills. But that ruins the game for the rest and that makes it way way more sweatier for them.

And not the stress of having to perform and win. And THAT is the real difference that a ranked mode is over a social mode. All other differences the developer puts in (different weapons, BR handles differently, no radar, other weapons on some spawns, limiting some maps/modes) is perhaps further differentiation, but not necessary for it to be a ranked mode. Ranked mode is just that you have to perform because there is a rank on the line.

Again (because you repeating yourself): to not to have to worry about your rank, so it doesn’t matter per se if you win or lose.
And again: it doesn’t mean your entitled to stomp lesser players. The game has to be playable for everybody, not just the top x percentage of players. Everybody deserves a playable game without having to stress about having to win.

1 Like
74

No, I haven’t missed the point of what social is. In halo social has ALWAYS been about relaxed, fun gameplay. I remember halo 3 particularly vividly, and how much fun I had chilling out playing social with friends.

Halo infinite social is ranked 2.0. It forces you to play like you are in ranked.

Also, I fundamentally believe that being good at a game should reflect on the scoreboard. If you are top 20% of players you should be doing pretty well on the scoreboard. What infinite does is it gives you absolutely no satisfaction for getting good at the game, because it then just forces you to play the same small pool of good players again and again. And if you get better? It will just take players from above you to match against. Where is the pay off for your effort?

1 Like
75

Halo infinite is just not fun. There is no place in this game for people who want to relax after a hard day of work. There’s only place for people who have no life and sweat all day.

76

No it doesn’t. YOU just play like it’s ranked, because otherwise you wouldn’t face the same enemies, since MMR is different per playlist.

If you are the better in that match, you will. If you mean in any match: no, it shouldn’t, since then it would be unplayable for most players. Games are supposed to be fun for everybody, not just the elite. Thats why every game has SBMM.
And if you are better, it already reflects on your rank, that is where it’s for.

There is. There is only no place for entitled players who think they should have easy kills, because they (only) want enemies who are way less then them and can’t kill them. Otherwise, that wish you have “want to relax after a hard day of work” would be impossible for most, since they would be outclassed by the elite players match after match. That is what SBMM is for.

77

No. I play it like ranked because I’m against diamond and onyx level opponents. If I drop a shot I die. If I wasn’t then I wouldn’t play that way.

Halo 2 and 3, the best in the series did not have this. So why were they much less sweaty and much more fun in social playlists?

The answer is that they gave good players the chance to relax, to mess about. I spent many matches jumping around shooting the air, or dancing around with the enemy. And since when did gaming get so soft? You play the game more, you get better, you become the guy who ‘stomps’ the rest. It works both ways. Plenty of people would absolutely stomp me too. That’s life

Gaming has worked that way for decades, and everyone had a good time. Trying to force a new player to have a 1 kdr and 50% win record is just stupid. But I guess that’s just where we are now, everyone has to be a winner.

80

You’re only against diamond and onyx, because you already played social matches like that. That is your real problem: you yourself keep playing ‘sweaty’ (probably because you don’t want to die) and therefore your MMR in those social playlists are high. That is what the real problem is: you are unwilling to play ‘relaxed’ if you meat someone who in that relaxed mode give you a even fight, because then you go to sweaty mode to get the kill. That keeps your MMR so high you only encounter the higher skileld people who you are as skilled as when you play sweaty. You keep giving the system the info that that is how good you are.

Halo 3 definitely did have SBMM, the MMR was just not as precise, since it was the first edition of it and not that good in messuring MMR yet. That might have caused matches to be uneven, but was not the goal.

But not the rest, this is why people call it entitled. You want YOURSELF to relax (meaning: not giving all but still keep winning fights), but not the rest, since that is literaly the consequence.

Uh no. It didn’t work that way for decades (SBMM is already in for a long time) and not everybody had a good time. Thats why people kept quitting and they had to introduce quitbans, because people kept quitting because they didn’t have fun.

Get mature buddy! This is just childish.

No, they shouldn’t have started to play on maximum ability, because otherwise they wouldn’t even have gotten that high MMR in socials. You only are paired against those ‘sweaty’ players, because you already played on that level before.

Another childish insult. How very mature…

You already said yourself here: you spend time and effort, so then don’t complain that you have to put effort in.
And ‘sweaty’ is your own attitude then, otherwise you wouldn’t have that MMR.
And also this is again that entitled attitude: YOU don’t want to face people your own skill because you find that ‘sweaty’, therefore OTHERS should face people much higher skilled and there have to supersweat…

This is also why people call you entitled, since you only care about YOU being ‘relaxed’ and don’t have the empathy to see what that means for the rest. Social is for everybody, not only the entitled elites.

And that lack of empathy also is shown in the childish insults you hurdle towards people who disagree with you and don’t even adress the arguments they brought in.

Why is that even waisting time? This is also a statement that goes directly against your own argument that social should be ‘relaxed’. How is it relaxed if just played is apparently a waist of time?

Again a childish insult.

And after all of that: you still even haven’t adressed the argument that if social is for ‘relaxing’, why that relaxing should only be for the elite players and that other players don’t have the right to relax. Telling…

82

Meh, I don’t agree with you, The player reacts to the game, not the other way around. If I play sweaty it’s because the matches are sweaty. I’m not going to just die over and over so the game decides to allow me to have fun. And quitters are just as prevalent in infinite as they were in the old games.

I view the entitlement being the other way. People feeling entitled to a 1kdr and 50% win ratio without putting any effort in. That’s modern society and the gaming industry has adapted to it.

Honestly we are probably never going to agree on this subject, so will leave it there. I just want to get across that the one thing that makes me want to stop playing is strong sbmm in social.

GG

2 Likes
83

Telling again, just personal attack without even knowing what you are saying. I have played over 1,000 matches.

No matter how bad someone is, he/she should have playable matches. Otherwise they have no fun and can’t get better.

Again just an childish insult with no merit.

That is just not how it works. First of all learning doesn’t, learning works when you are being challenges around your skill, otherwise learning is very slim to none.
Second: everybody want to play and have fun. The best way to get that, is to have SBMM.

Again the entitlement argument: YOU should have fun, but the others not. That is what you are saying here, since if ‘fun’ to you is aparently only when you face lesser players, those players have way better players then and therefore won’t have fun.
That is why there is SBMM, so everybody has the opportunity to have fun. If you are not capable of having fun against players your own skill: that is a problem with your own mindset, but it doesn’t entitle you to that ruin the game for others so they can function as your personal cannon fodder. They are players that just like everybody else wants to be able to have a chance in matches.

Yes it does. (by the way: that rank of mine is not very correct, since against other gold players i keep just going positive with clear k/d’s, so my actual rank is probably mid to high platinum i think).

No it wasn’t. Since halo-3 that was never the case.

I have played since CE. But again you are just strawmanning here…

It’s both. Since you (like you acknowledge) don’t let yourself die, you will play harder when you face people about your skill when you are playing ‘relaxed’. This puts you more into ‘sweat’-mode, wich makes your MMR higher, etc., etc. That is the real problem with a lot of players who want to play ‘relaxed’ but complain about ‘sweatiness’: when they get even matches in their relaxed mode, they (probably unconsciously) can’t keep playing relaxed and that (eventually) gets them into this ‘sweaty’ matches.

I get it that it’s hard to stay in ‘relaxed’ mode, but you can’t blame the game if it’s seeing that you play better and then recognise that.

I get where you’re coming from, but basicly they are entitled to that. They got the game to be able to play. If they are just getting placed with way better skilled players, they can’t realy play. For a game that is very unhealthy, because those players will stop playing (especially in these days where there are a lot of alternatives to play) and a game that loses a lot of its playerbase because of that will not be profitable anymore and stops being available.

And that is okay :wink:

And most will say the other way around. You already seen in this forum that there is a lot of pushback against removing SBMM (look back at earlier topics, since there have been dozens already, most people are not even responding anymore) and this forum is very disproportionally occupied by the more skilled players, so in the entire playerbase it would even be greater.

84

He’s just a gold player who never wants to get out of his comfort zone and realize how much he truly sucks at the game. Good games are something you should aim for and gain with practise. You should be able to notice your improvements and feel the progression you make as a player. When you face yourself every game in social its JUST NOT FUN!

2 Likes
85

Not even an argument and just a personal attack since you can’t debate in arguments.

Says the one who literaly begs to be put against opponents weaker then him :rofl: You probably don’t even realise how immensly hypocritical you are here. :rofl:

And yet you demand you get out of them… right…

That is what ranked is for.

So why do you demand that people are being put against way harder enemies then? Because that is even less fun… Again you can’t even put yourself in other peoples shoes.

86

Would be interesting.

I think damage stats have so much more potential than kills and deaths.

I’m up to over 300 data points in my little look at CSR changes in Ranked. Damage doesn’t correlate with CSR change so far (correlation score 0.2).

I should run Damage per Death as well!

But the grain of salt from my end is that’s in Ranked playlists. FFA and LSS may very well have different weightings.

It seems to be data glitch. I wonder if it will get patched out soon.

I think FFA is always going to be harder to analyse.

I’ve always assumed it went through and analysed you as a win vs each below you. So multiple passes through the system.

I’m not as convinced?

Mine has jumped around a little bit. But you are also going to have to play close to 50 games in each for the season to know your MMR has settled.