First, let me start off by saying that I am a huge warzone fan. I always loved bigger scale battles, and I pretty much exclusively play regular warzone. I think it had the perfect balance of PvE mixed into a PvP environment.
That, however, has changed significantly with the boss refresh in the firefight update.
Here are my issues with this update:
-
The boss refresh, while a commendable attempt to spice things up, is an absolute chaotic mess. In general, there are too many high level bosses spawning too frequently. Far too often, I am seeing that teams don’t even both going for the bosses at all. I played a game on NOCTUS tonight where both mantis bosses were still alive while everyone was dealing with the grunt mech. Not to mention the phantom endlessly circling. Adding to that issue, Mythic bosses spawning in key points makes it nearly impossible to spawn at that base. Compounding that scenario is the sheer time it takes to defeat these bosses. Being the bullet sponges that they are, you can’t reasonably spawn enough reqs to take them down. Thus, warzone has become compete chaos… And not “good” chaos. I’ve been in a banshee and shot down across the map by the deadeye aim of a grunt mech or hydra soldier, etc.
This has reduced the strategic elements of what made warzone fun. I would really like to see the metrics and data on average number of deaths (both teams) per warzone match. I’d bet it’s at least 15% higher from the excessive spawns of bosses. Because of this, all I ever see anymore is a bum-rush, Zerg-fest of players charging around and spraying and praying.
This is leads to my next issue:
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Attack at SANCTUM is a terrible map. I was really looking forward to this map. The setting, and the multi-level terrain present a map that was going to feel like old-school halo, like Valhalla or Blood Gulch. Unfortunately that is not the case. There are too many man-cannons that easily and lazily shoot you into key positions, again creating the bum-rush, Zerg-fest. Fighting for the temple is just once again bad chaos. Too many entry points, easily susceptible to nade-spam, ghosts zooming up the stairs and in circles, etc. In addition, the “boss room” at the top is ill conceived. Controlling the temple really gives no real benefit in that regard. The control points on the map are so close together and easily accessible, that there never really seems like anyone is “controlling” a point, rather just scrambling to keep enough people inside of it.
Maps like ARC, STORM BREAK, and NOCTUS require a real strategy to get to the main point. If I you attempt to get to the main base from either of the smaller ones, you can’t just run straight at it because you will be a sitting duck and get obliterated. SANCTUM doesn’t require this strategy as it is not challenging to get into the temple.
I hope some tweaks will be made to the boss refresh. I think it can be great if it’s toned down a bit. We have firefight now for pure PvE, let’s keep regular warzone more grounded in PvP.
Any feedback? I normally don’t bump my posts, but after all the garbage spam posts yesterday, I feel like some constructive feedback on this topic would be helpful.
I have yet to try Warzone since the update with the boss refresh added to it but it does sound like there is less strategy and more…bring in the big guns…
I would bring in maybe 1 or 2 for a match, 4 if I wanted to try some stuff. The new map looks good and works for FF, but I noticed it would suck for regular Warzone with the cannons placed everywhere.
Mythic bosses, multiple mantis, phantoms circling and the legendary aim from across the map sounds like pain to play through.
Yea that’s an accurate summary
I kinda like it though. I’ve always seen Warzone as a mode that is meant to be chaotic. But I do agree that Sanctum could use some work. The areas between the Temple and the Garages don’t get used half the time and the Temple Overwatch is a really irritating place to have to deal with the Warden and the Knight Dominarch.
Always nice to read constructive criticism on here rather than useless rants. +1 from me.
I both love the boss refresh and Attack on Sanctum.
Sure, there are more high level bosses now, but they’re worth less points than before, so it evens out. Warzone feels a lot more refreshing to play now that things aren’t always the same game after game after game. I’m really enjoying playing on old maps again, when before I found them repetitive. If I got a map 2-3 times in a row before the update, I would get annoyed. But now? The games will be different with different bosses, so it’s nice.
As for Attack on Sanctum, I really enjoy it and its layout. It’s nice to have a middle base that’s less necessary to win, since the strategy around it is different. Having that area is beneficial, but not absolutely necessary. The map feels like it flows better too due to it, since you’ll find enemies at more areas on the map than just the main bases. It creates a more dynamic and interesting gameplay flow, if you ask me.
I think that the changes to the bosses are good ones. The bosses are not entirely randomized, but now we’re not guaranteed to encounter the exact same bosses at the same times which should keep players on their toes. I think that spawning the bosses in the central base (with some other enemies to guard them) is a creative way to equalize the playing field. Take Escape From A.R.C as an example. The first legendary boss will spawn at the crane pit, behind the garage. The team who controls the garage has a major advantage because the boss is so close to their base, and from the garage they have clear sights to other paths to the crane pit so they can easily suppress the other team and keep them from reaching the boss
By spawning a boss inside of the base, the advantage of holding the base is lesser but not entirely erased. The team that holds it can still spawn closer to it, but they will have to contend with the enemies inside and enemies from the other team pushing onto their location. The reason why people aren’t going after them isn’t because they’re really tough, it’s because Halo 5 was recently free to play for the public until two days ago (July 5th) so we had a wave of new players who have never played Warzone before. Give it time, eventually everyone will know what to do when a boss’s arrival is announced.
Sanctum is an interesting map at first glance, but after you play it you realize that it’s basically just two garages, a temple, and some hills. The temple is interesting, especially how bosses will spawn directly above it in an enclosed arena-like area. But other than that, the map is just a bland environment with copy and pasted bases.
The only thing that I’m upset about is that I’ll no longer be able to run over both Soldier Guards (?) and Spec-Ops Elites in a Scout Hog on Darkstar. That was so fun.
It’s definitely different now. I’ve been trying to withhold judgment until I get used to the new flow of things and the new map. That said, I can’t disagree with your two points thus far.
I’ll also add that the game seems more unbalanced right now. Admittedly, I’m almost exclusively a solo player. However the disparity in win/loss scores has been much greater for me so far. This could just be an anomaly/coincidence (since we’re talking about a small sample size) but my teams seem to get either decisively steamrolled or dishing out a steamroll on the opponent.
I’ve had very few close, evenly matched battles.
Good points and counter-points. Thanks for keeping the discussion constructive.
One point of clarification - I don’t want to sound totally against the boss refresh. Like a lot of you I DO like the variability of different boss sets for each map. Definitely mixes things up and keeps it interesting.
Also, I DO like the addition of mythic bosses… however, I think mythic bosses should always spawn in an open, vulnerable area since they are such bullet sponges. Spawning inside keep points makes the games messy and I think it dilutes the use of team strategy.
I think it would be win-win keeping them out in the open.
- it still allows for the chaotic Warzone feel of everyone chasing epic bosses.
- keeps strategic team shooting and strategy as key to success.
- allows for more vehicle use, which is impossible when bosses aren’t exposes.
Warzone is and always has been a mess and they won’t resolve that without making fundamental changes to the structure of the mode. Something they will never do. I was hoping that they would learn from the past and stop making maps that guarantee that most games are decided by whoever gets the center base first, but I’m hardly surprised when 343 puts out garbage at this point. Like their “boss refresh” mostly consisting of making enemies absorb even more ridiculous amounts of ammunition. Brilliant.
Only warning here, OP, please do not bump posts.
On topic: yes. Warzone is almost unrecognizable it seems. That and the swarms of wasps at req 3 are so annoying to deal with. Shields, rockets, machine guns, flight, and mobility at level 3. It makes no sense.
I didn’t try out normal wz yet.
> 2696128169788667;1:
> First, let me start off by saying that I am a huge warzone fan. I always loved bigger scale battles, and I pretty much exclusively play regular warzone. I think it had the perfect balance of PvE mixed into a PvP environment.
>
> That, however, has changed significantly with the boss refresh in the firefight update.
>
> Here are my issues with this update:
>
> - The boss refresh, while a commendable attempt to spice things up, is an absolute chaotic mess. In general, there are too many high level bosses spawning too frequently. Far too often, I am seeing that teams don’t even both going for the bosses at all. I played a game on NOCTUS tonight where both mantis bosses were still alive while everyone was dealing with the grunt mech. Not to mention the phantom endlessly circling. Adding to that issue, Mythic bosses spawning in key points makes it nearly impossible to spawn at that base. Compounding that scenario is the sheer time it takes to defeat these bosses. Being the bullet sponges that they are, you can’t reasonably spawn enough reqs to take them down. Thus, warzone has become compete chaos… And not “good” chaos. I’ve been in a banshee and shot down across the map by the deadeye aim of a grunt mech or hydra soldier, etc.
>
> This has reduced the strategic elements of what made warzone fun. I would really like to see the metrics and data on average number of deaths (both teams) per warzone match. I’d bet it’s at least 15% higher from the excessive spawns of bosses. Because of this, all I ever see anymore is a bum-rush, Zerg-fest of players charging around and spraying and praying.
>
> This is leads to my next issue:
>
> - Attack at SANCTUM is a terrible map. I was really looking forward to this map. The setting, and the multi-level terrain present a map that was going to feel like old-school halo, like Valhalla or Blood Gulch. Unfortunately that is not the case. There are too many man-cannons that easily and lazily shoot you into key positions, again creating the bum-rush, Zerg-fest. Fighting for the temple is just once again bad chaos. Too many entry points, easily susceptible to nade-spam, ghosts zooming up the stairs and in circles, etc. In addition, the “boss room” at the top is ill conceived. Controlling the temple really gives no real benefit in that regard. The control points on the map are so close together and easily accessible, that there never really seems like anyone is “controlling” a point, rather just scrambling to keep enough people inside of it.
>
> Maps like ARC, STORM BREAK, and NOCTUS require a real strategy to get to the main point. If I you attempt to get to the main base from either of the smaller ones, you can’t just run straight at it because you will be a sitting duck and get obliterated. SANCTUM doesn’t require this strategy as it is not challenging to get into the temple.
>
> I hope some tweaks will be made to the boss refresh. I think it can be great if it’s toned down a bit. We have firefight now for pure PvE, let’s keep regular warzone more grounded in PvP.
I like the thought put into this. It’s really well written and you clearly explain yourself. It’s not out right bashing. Although I’m curious as to the boss situation personally, because I’ve been loving WZFF and haven’t broken away yet. But in my opinion I do believe that the Warzone timer in fire fight should be increased as the rounds get more difficult to match the increased respawn timer. Also bosses jumping out of the map and not dying than waiting out the time immune to being killed by Spartans trying to kill it.
I’d love to see a much larger presence of AI in Regular Warzone but maybe the bosses are over doing it… Maybe if it was just constant dropships landing Covenant troops in unused areas?
I’ve been locked in on WZFF, but from the sounds of how they fixed WZ it’s sounds like everything is improved by killing the paint by numbers old WZ
I agree with OP but I also think that spending so much time on WZFF I haven’t had the time to really get acquainted with the basic warzone since the changes and now when I hop into a random game I’m not at all sure what to do…kinda like when the game first came out…
I agree. While I liked Sanctum at first, I just hate getting it now.
This new updated Warzone requires 25-29 minutes sometimes. Even though structure of the same thing was boring, it kept warzone under 20 minutes tops
Haven’t really played enough regular war zone to say. So far I am liking the boss refresh really. But I don’t like the mythic bosses there because there really doesn’t seem like enough time to take them down anyways. Haven’t seen one taken down yet in warzone. The grunt mech could use a slight nerf maybe he seems able to kill at a really long distance and forever to take down.
In warzone over all in firefight and regular I am not really liking these super bullet sponge AI… it’s just too tedious and get lame at how long it takes to beat them. Hannibal tanks seem to be the only things worth a crap to shot them with
> 2696128169788667;2:
> Any feedback? I normally don’t bump my posts, but after all the garbage spam posts yesterday, I feel like some constructive feedback on this topic would be helpful.
Great post OP, but I think most players are still trying to fathom and understand the frustrating, brutal WZ FF update thats probably just as big of a disaster as regular WZ after the update. lol that "Zerg rush " had me lol though. Its terrible now, both WZ modes regular and FF have become epic fails, in terms of delivering a fun experience. I had such high hopes…