We all know that 343 is going to do some minor (and major) tweaks to many of the weapons used at the E3 War Games. But please, DO NOT NERF WEAPONS TO CREATE BALANCE. Doing this will result in the same situation that Reach was in after the Beta. Many of the weapons that were actually useful in the Reach Beta (Repeater, Plasma Launcher, Plasma Pistol) were nerfed for absolutely no reason. The same thing should not happen to Halo 4.
The biggest concern right now is the BR and how it fits in with all of the other weapons. It currently has the slowest kill time of all 3 precision weapons and should be buffed up to a 4 shot to compensate and balance it (Refer to the 4 Shot BR thread w/ kill times for more info). What we don’t want to happen in this situation is 343 NERFING EVERY OTHER WEAPON to balance the BR. This makes things even worse in the sense that it makes kill times even longer in a game with default Sprint and other defensive AA’s. The Carbine and DMR are fine, the BR should be buffed up to a 4 shot, and the Automatic weapons should be buffed if necessary (doesn’t look necessary for the Storm Rifle). This way everyone is happy and the sandbox remains balanced.
the plasma repeater and launcher were both still very useful. and the PP still had good tracking. every weapon weve seen so far in h4 seems to have its own useful role. things are already balanced. Most of the MLG people that played said the BR was the better out of the 3 and the DMR being the worst. besides. the BR was added back in for pure nostalgia. if they really wanted it to be the monster it was in h3 they wouldve started with that. its not useless right now and it has its own role. Just because the DMR or carbine can beat the BR in its omptimal range doesn’t mean its broken. or needing a buff. player skill does take a factor. and everytime i saw someone beat the BR user with a carbine and DMR (rarley) they did so out of the BR’s best range or had better aim on the person. and in a few instances started firing first.
making the BR 4sk would make the other 2 weapons useless. H3’s problem was that the BR was so much better then every other gun. (and duel wielded weapons had to be weaker for balance terms) that the sandbox was terrible. in h4 duel wielding is gone. and all the weapons seem to have a buff. and the BR is finally on equal terms with other precision weapons. and that is GOOD.
> making the BR 4sk would make the other 2 weapons useless.
That is where you are wrong. The BR at a 4 shot would kill at nearly the same kill speed as the Carbine and DMR. Right now it is significantly slower. Not to mention it has spread which is heavily influenced by online connection and will result in bad shot registration in many cases. And the pros hardly used the DMR and Carbine because they just wanted to use the BR for sake of using it again. The one pro that used the Carbine consistently dominated with it.
> the plasma repeater and launcher were both still very useful. and the PP still had good tracking. every weapon weve seen so far in h4 seems to have its own useful role. things are already balanced. Most of the MLG people that played said the BR was the better out of the 3 and the DMR being the worst. besides. the BR was added back in for pure nostalgia. if they really wanted it to be the monster it was in h3 they wouldve started with that. its not useless right now and it has its own role. Just because the DMR or carbine can beat the BR in its omptimal range doesn’t mean its broken. or needing a buff. player skill does take a factor. and everytime i saw someone beat the BR user with a carbine and DMR (rarley) they did so out of the BR’s best range or had better aim on the person. and in a few instances started firing first.
>
> making the BR 4sk would make the other 2 weapons useless. H3’s problem was that the BR was so much better then every other gun. (and duel wielded weapons had to be weaker for balance terms) that the sandbox was terrible. in h4 duel wielding is gone. and all the weapons seem to have a buff. and the BR is finally on equal terms with other precision weapons. and that is GOOD.
Actually the BR is not equal to the other precision weapons. The Carbine kills in 1.4 seconds (7 shot kill), the DMR in 1.46 (5SK), and the BR in 1.83 (5SK).
If the BR was a 4 shot kill, its kill time would be around 1.47 seconds, which is very close to the other precision weapons.
I know they are intended for different roles, which can still be achieved, but their base kill times should be similar to be balanced within their respective ranges.
> > making the BR 4sk would make the other 2 weapons useless.
>
> That is where you are wrong. The BR at a 4 shot would kill at nearly the same kill speed as the Carbine and DMR. Right now it is significantly slower. Not to mention it has spread which is heavily influenced by online connection and will result in bad shot registration in many cases. And the pros hardly used the DMR and Carbine because they just wanted to use the BR for sake of using it again. The one pro that used the Carbine consistently dominated with it.
the person using the carbine almost always killed outside the BR’s optimal range or got the first shot in.
if were both mid range we both stay on target the entire time and start firing at the same time. the 4sk BR would always beat the 5sk DMR because you have one less shot to put in. i don’t care if the “kill times” would be closer together. you would still require 1 shot less then the DMR. so you will always win with it unless i manage to out strafe your shots. they both require the same shots so that who ever gets the first shot or more importentally who has the better aim will win. and it needs to stay that way.
> > > making the BR 4sk would make the other 2 weapons useless.
> >
> > That is where you are wrong. The BR at a 4 shot would kill at nearly the same kill speed as the Carbine and DMR. Right now it is significantly slower. Not to mention it has spread which is heavily influenced by online connection and will result in bad shot registration in many cases. And the pros hardly used the DMR and Carbine because they just wanted to use the BR for sake of using it again. The one pro that used the Carbine consistently dominated with it.
>
> the person using the carbine almost always killed outside the BR’s optimal range or got the first shot in.
>
> if were both mid range we both stay on target the entire time and start firing at the same time. the 4sk BR would always beat the 5sk DMR because you have one less shot to put in. i don’t care if the “kill times” would be closer together. you would still require 1 shot less then the DMR. so you will always win with it unless i manage to out strafe your shots. they both require the same shots so that who ever gets the first shot or more importentally who has the better aim will win. and it needs to stay that way.
I would highly suggest reading B Deck 500’s thread regarding the kill times of Halo 4’s precision weapons, which can be found here.
> > > making the BR 4sk would make the other 2 weapons useless.
> >
> > That is where you are wrong. The BR at a 4 shot would kill at nearly the same kill speed as the Carbine and DMR. Right now it is significantly slower. Not to mention it has spread which is heavily influenced by online connection and will result in bad shot registration in many cases. And the pros hardly used the DMR and Carbine because they just wanted to use the BR for sake of using it again. The one pro that used the Carbine consistently dominated with it.
>
> the person using the carbine almost always killed outside the BR’s optimal range or got the first shot in.
>
> if were both mid range we both stay on target the entire time and start firing at the same time. the 4sk BR would always beat the 5sk DMR because you have one less shot to put in. i don’t care if the “kill times” would be closer together. you would still require 1 shot less then the DMR. so you will always win with it unless i manage to out strafe your shots. they both require the same shots so that who ever gets the first shot or more importentally who has the better aim will win. and it needs to stay that way.
That makes no sense. If the kill times are the same, then the weapons would kill in the same amount of time regardless if one takes less shots to kill.
Take the Halo 3 Carbine and BR for example. The Carbine takes 7 shots to kill and actually kills faster than the amount of time the BR can get off 4 shots.
If one of these starting precision weapons shoots slower it makes sense for it to take less shots to kill and vice versa.
Bungie did this throughout their time with halo. The only way they ever balanced anything was by nerfing. They never buffed other things. It’s the lazy way to go about things and it essentially ruined the franchise as by the time we got to the 4th instalment the game was sooooooooo slow.
> Agreed.
>
> Bungie did this throughout their time with halo. The only way they ever balanced anything was by nerfing. They never buffed other things. It’s the lazy way to go about things and it essentially ruined the franchise as by the time we got to the 4th instalment the game was sooooooooo slow.
Exactly. The games keep getting progressively slower and more melee and grenade based because of this direction.
> > > making the BR 4sk would make the other 2 weapons useless.
> >
> > That is where you are wrong. The BR at a 4 shot would kill at nearly the same kill speed as the Carbine and DMR. Right now it is significantly slower. Not to mention it has spread which is heavily influenced by online connection and will result in bad shot registration in many cases. And the pros hardly used the DMR and Carbine because they just wanted to use the BR for sake of using it again. The one pro that used the Carbine consistently dominated with it.
>
> the person using the carbine almost always killed outside the BR’s optimal range or got the first shot in.
>
> if were both mid range we both stay on target the entire time and start firing at the same time. the 4sk BR would always beat the 5sk DMR because you have one less shot to put in. i don’t care if the “kill times” would be closer together. you would still require 1 shot less then the DMR. so you will always win with it unless i manage to out strafe your shots. they both require the same shots so that who ever gets the first shot or more importentally who has the better aim will win. and it needs to stay that way.
Wow, lmfao
There’s something called Rate Of Fire(ROF). As in, the DMR fires faster than the BR so their 5 shots don’t take the same amount of time. Hence the kill times.
> > > > making the BR 4sk would make the other 2 weapons useless.
> > >
> > > That is where you are wrong. The BR at a 4 shot would kill at nearly the same kill speed as the Carbine and DMR. Right now it is significantly slower. Not to mention it has spread which is heavily influenced by online connection and will result in bad shot registration in many cases. And the pros hardly used the DMR and Carbine because they just wanted to use the BR for sake of using it again. The one pro that used the Carbine consistently dominated with it.
> >
> > the person using the carbine almost always killed outside the BR’s optimal range or got the first shot in.
> >
> > if were both mid range we both stay on target the entire time and start firing at the same time. the 4sk BR would always beat the 5sk DMR because you have one less shot to put in. i don’t care if the “kill times” would be closer together. you would still require 1 shot less then the DMR. so you will always win with it unless i manage to out strafe your shots. they both require the same shots so that who ever gets the first shot or more importentally who has the better aim will win. and it needs to stay that way.
>
> Wow, lmfao
>
> There’s something called Rate Of Fire(ROF). As in, the DMR fires faster than the BR so their 5 shots don’t take the same amount of time. Hence the kill times.
>
> lol
People these days.
I really can’t see any problems with the 4 shot BR coming back. It’ll be balanced, and just like it used to be.
> People these days.
>
> I really can’t see any problems with the 4 shot BR coming back. It’ll be balanced, and just like it used to be.
>
> What’s there to argue or complain about?
Casual players are still upset about getting wrecked by it while using their ARs in previous games. If 343 makes the Automatic weapons actually useful (like the Storm Rifle) then there shouldn’t be any problem other than the players skill (which was mostly the case in the previous games too).
Maybe there was a reason they decided to make it kill slower? It seems weird that they’d let that slip if their goal was to have the weapons have relatively similar kill times.
Assuming there is no reason, which we don’t know if there is or not, then I support.
> Maybe there was a reason they decided to make it kill slower?
[/quote]
Nothing plausible comes to mind. The only thing that seems reasonable is that they want the BR to suck so that players are encouraged to unlock the Carbine, DMR, and Light Rifle.
I just want the Assault Rifle to be awesome again. In Reach it is super weak against shields, terrible for health, has a tiny clip size, and sucks at close range against the DMR. I want it to either have more damage, bigger clip, or at least a headshot option.