Regarding vehicle Combat...

After playing quite a few BTB games in my halo 4 career I can say that the game is fun for the most part, but when it comes to vehicles, it completely misses the mark. I’ve personally had enough of the way the vehicle combat system in Halo 4 works. All vehicles are susceptible to damage from Small Arms fire, all players have the ability to spawn with Anti-vehicle weapons, and the game gives players free power weapons for doing virtually nothing worth noting. Call me Crazy, but I think vehicles are Underpowered.

I want t go over the biggest problem with vehicle combat as it is. Plasma weapons in loadouts. By plasma weapons I mean the Plasma Pistol and Sticky Grenades. In all past halos, the Plasma Pistol was a utility weapon that spawned in 1-2 areas on the map because of its usefulness towards vehicles. A charged shot from a Plasma Pistol tracks vehicles like a homing missile and once it hits, it disables the vehicle for a few seconds. This mechanic is fine when there’s only one per team, but it gets very overpowered if EVERY MEMBER of the enemy team has access to it.

Before Halo 4 was launched, 343i addressed the issue of it being added to loadouts by stating that the Tracking feature was heavily nerfed. I noticed zero change in the tracking, it is still as lenient as it was in all past Halos, it is VERY hard to miss a vehicle with a charged shot at its range, and because of that, it is way too easy to shut down a vehicle before it becomes even a minor threat.

The next weapon is the plasma Grenades, which can stick to vehicles if thrown. It only takes two to take down Halo’s signature vehicle, the warthog, and each player gets two off the spawn, meaning that every player has the ability to take down what was once a very major potential threat, single-handedly, without doing much. In past Halos, Plasma Grenades spawned in only a few areas for pickup because of its usefulness and power. Now EVERYONE gets two free.

Every vehicle now has to be weary of every single player, as setting the wrong foot with anyone could be fatal. Almost every player in BTB uses the Plasma Pistol-Plasma Grenades combo, and vehicles are suffering
Simply EMP the vehicle in question and chuck both of your plasma Grenades at it for a free vehicle kill.

Sometimes you don’t even need the Plasma Pistol, just chuck two stickies at a vehicle without an EMP and you will still probably get a kill due to the grenades’ power.

I have yet to find a SINGLE person that disagrees in that Plasma Grenades and Pistols need to be removed from loadouts, not a single one, yet they are still in the game aren’t they? It seems that Vehicle combat is almost meaningless to the community, despite it being a huge part of the most popular playlist in Halo History, Big Team Battle. Don’t believe me? Check these forums, you rarely see a thread about vehicle combat, and if you do, it very quickly gets buried (as this one will probably as well). Surely something the community cared about would see a little more attention…

I digress…

Surely if it were a problem, 343i would’ve fix it by now? Well, excluding the topic’s unpopularity, the “Most used weapon” Charts are likely very biased towards Plasma weapons, as a large majority of loadouts contain the combo. 343i must be thinking that if they change something that a large majority of the populace has grown accustomed to, surely some uprise will follow that. If so many players are using the combo, and 343i removes them, lots of people are likely to get mad, and I don’t blame 343i for not changing it at this point. But they should do SOMETHING about it, vehicles are heavily underpowered.

My suggestion is the following:

  • Make EMP shots have zero tracking capabilities, and remove its ability to disable the main gun of a Tank and torso of a Mantis.
  • Make it so Plasma Grenades cannot stick to vehicles, but rather the OCCUPANTS of the vehicle. (Mantis is special)

For one thing, these suggestions promote skill, Plasma Pistols guys will have to aim and lead their shots to make it count. And the Plasma Grenade guys can no longer mindlessly spam grenades and get a free 2 kills, they have to either aim to stick the guys in the vehicle, or time a throw so that a vehicle runs over the Plasma.

“But what about Tanks? Their drivers are not exposed…”

True, but their large profile and slow speed make it easy to time a throw at them. And while the grenades no longer stick to vehicles, they don’t just bounce off like Frag grenades. If you angle the throw right, you can get the grenade to sit on the tank, but if the tank moves in such a way, the grenade can still roll off.

“What about the Mantis? Its driver isn’t exposed either”

Because of the Mantis’s profile, I feel that if a Mantis has its shields down, it can get stuck by a plasma, but if the Shields are up, even a little bit, the grenades will bounce off.

Speaking of Tanks and Mantises, I should bring up another thing about vehicle combat:

Tanks and Mantises cannot be hijacked.

Yes, they can be boarded, but you cannot kill the driver without destroying the vehicle itself. This is a big issue considering in past Halos, you could commandeer a tank if you punched out the driver, but in Halo 4, you have no choice but to destroy it unless the pilot bails. There should be a reason you want to punch the vehicle rather than plant a grenade (besides lack of grenades).

The next thing I want to go over briefly is Ordinance drops. In Infinity slayer, people can call in power weapons after getting a small number of kills or points. Considering that a Vehicle has enough to deal with already, and removing ordanace drops really isn’t a valid option, I’d like to see a couple of the power weapons fixed:

The Spartan Laser:
Currently, when driving a vehicle, it is INCREDEBLY hard to see the targeting laser, making the Weapon very overpowered unless you have very keen eyes (which I do not)

The Incinerator cannon:
Projectiles move too fast, and considering the damage, it’s a pretty Overpowered weapon. All I want is a reduced projectile speed.

Considering how many ways a vehicle can be countered, it makes me believe that 343i hates vehicles/vehicle combat, and I really don’t want that to be true. I picked up halo for its vehicles exclusively, nothing else, so having my most beloved part of Halo so drastically ruined makes me very pissed off.
please lets this thread get some traffic… PLEASE!!

  1. Reduce the number of available Plasma Grenades in loadouts from two to one.

  2. Slightly lower EMP stun time.

  3. Give some of the vehicles a slight armor boost. The Warthog in particular needs this. I think they should be destroyed from 3 plasma grenades not 2.

> 1. Reduce the number of available Plasma Grenades in loadouts from two to one.

not a bad idea, but that doesn’t stop people from mindlessly spamming them at vehicles

and even with one, you can still deal a good amount of damage.
and when there are 8 people in a team, and they each get a new grenade per spawn, your vehicle is still not going to last long

> 2. Slightly lower EMP stun time.

even with a shorter EMP time, people can still board or bombard a vehicle with grenades
and with the tracking of the pistol being so forgiving, it won’t add much.

> 3. Give some of the vehicles a slight armor boost. The Warthog in particular needs this. I think they should be destroyed from 3 plasma grenades not 2.

IMO vehicles don’t really need that much of an armor buff.

The ghost is one thing, but the others seem fine to me

i feel that we should make it harder for the enemy to deal so much damage, rather than let them deal a ton of damage, but simply add more health

and again, with the EMP tracking being so forgiving, armor isn’t going to matter much.

> 1. Reduce the number of available Plasma Grenades in loadouts from two to one.
>
> 2. Slightly lower EMP stun time.
>
> 3. Give some of the vehicles a slight armor boost. The Warthog in particular needs this. I think they should be destroyed from 3 plasma grenades not 2.

Or remove the anti-vehicle plasma grenades and the Plasma Pistol from loadouts. Problem solved without having to wait an additional month or so for 343 to “fine tune” those suggested changes.

> > 1. Reduce the number of available Plasma Grenades in loadouts from two to one.
> >
> > 2. Slightly lower EMP stun time.
> >
> > 3. Give some of the vehicles a slight armor boost. The Warthog in particular needs this. I think they should be destroyed from 3 plasma grenades not 2.
>
> Or remove the anti-vehicle plasma grenades and the Plasma Pistol from loadouts. Problem solved without having to wait an additional month or so for 343 to “fine tune” those suggested changes.

I highly doubt 343i can completely remove items from loadouts without a TU that you would have to wait a “month or so to fine tune” as you put it since its hard wired into the code. An armor buff and EMP reduction I’m assuming can be done from the back end like the weapon updates and reducing Plasma grenades from two to one is probably easier than completely removing them.

> > 1. Reduce the number of available Plasma Grenades in loadouts from two to one.
>
> not a bad idea, but that doesn’t stop people from mindlessly spamming them at vehicles
>
> and even with one, you can still deal a good amount of damage.
> and when there are 8 people in a team, and they each get a new grenade per spawn, your vehicle is still not going to last long
> 2. Slightly lower EMP stun time.
> even with a shorter EMP time, people can still board or bombard a vehicle with grenades
> and with the tracking of the pistol being so forgiving, it won’t add much.
>
> 3. Give some of the vehicles a slight armor boost. The Warthog in particular needs this. I think they should be destroyed from 3 plasma grenades not 2.
> IMO vehicles don’t really need that much of an armor buff.
>
> The ghost is one thing, but the others seem fine to me
>
> i feel that we should make it harder for the enemy to deal so much damage, rather than let them deal a ton of damage, but simply add more health
>
> and again, with the EMP tracking being so forgiving, armor isn’t going to matter much.

  1. Yes but at least it would force some team work for bringing down vehicles instead of having one man armies. I think its less frustrating that way.

  2. The tracking isn’t all that generous. I believe Halo 4 has the lowest PP tracking in the series. If you cut regular EMP stun to about where it is if someone had Wheelman and reduce Wheelman’s even more I’m sure it would help a lot.

  3. I think the heavy vehicles are fine but the Warthog is too easy to destroy. Like I said I think it should take 3 Plasmas to take it out instead of two that way it almost completely removes the possibility of one person taking it out.

> 1. Yes but at least it would force some team work for bringing down vehicles instead of having one man armies. I think its less frustrating that way.

you’re still going to have people that mindlessly chuck their grenade, and even if you need 3 to bring a Hog down, it’s still a problem

Warthogs are sometimes useful against large groups of people or in choke points
If a warthog were to come anywhere near a group, it will be bombarded by plasma, more than enough to take one down. A Team “Effort” really isn’t required.

and even with one grenade, you still deal a good amount of damage, a requirement of 3 instead of two will make the hog live a bit longer, yes, but it’s still gonna be bombarded will grenades, and there’s no good way of countering a Plasma, once it’s stuck, it’s stuck.
If a Frag rolls you over, you can use the momentum of the roll to flip yourself back over, and Frags can’t stick to vehicles, so it’s much easier to avoid them.

> 2. The tracking isn’t all that generous. I believe Halo 4 has the lowest PP tracking in the series. If you cut regular EMP stun to about where it is if someone had Wheelman and reduce Wheelman’s even more I’m sure it would help a lot.

the Combo of “EMP then stick” will still be in effect, and again, if you are engaging a group, you’re gonna get bombarded, no matter how short the EMP is.

i’ve seen EMP charges do 270° turns mid-air extremely fast. Even if you aren’t aiming at the vehicle, but it still locks on, it’s gonna get EMP’d

> 3. I think the heavy vehicles are fine but the Warthog is too easy to destroy. Like I said I think it should take 3 Plasmas to take it out instead of two that way it almost completely removes the possibility of one person taking it out.

in gametypes where custom loadouts are not an option, i find that the warthog can be immensely useful, i can get 20+ wheelmans in one as opposed to the usual 8 or 9

the warthog isn’t supposed to be that well armored, it’s supposed to be fast, light and well equipped with weaponry. It’s supposed to be somewhat easy to destroy, it’s supposed to go down with 2 plasma grenades. It is NOT designed to compensate for Plasma loadouts. Giving it more armor will make it harder to destroy for other weapons also. Mounted turrets will become useless against one, and the Laser or Rocket launcher cold possibly become a two-shot kill for a warthog, instead of a one-shot kill. possibly

Even with the Mantis, vehicle combat took a step back from Reach. I blame the gunner/wheelman perks for totally messing up the baseline experience.

My suggestions, if not for Halo 4 then for Halo 5:

  1. Plasma Pistol overcharge EMP does not stop a vehicle outright - only slows it down. The effect can be additive so 3 or 4 EMPs will stall a vehicle.

  2. Buff hog durability - 2 stickies should not destroy a fully loaded warthog, especially if stickies are loadout choices.

  3. Cut down on the number of power weapons. Seriously, it’s bad enough stickies can wreck a vehicle…

  4. Bring back UNSC multi-seated air vehicles.

If 343i does none of #1 1-3 in Halo 4 then they should at least shorten the spawn time of vehicles. I won’t mind them exploding all the time If I can just hop back into another… all those power weapons/stickies will have to deplete themselves eventually.

It seems you guys are basically advocating the removal of Infinity slayer settings.

Reduce plasma grenades, reduce plasma pistols, reduce precision fire against vehicles, and reduce number of power weapons…

All of those problems were introduced with Infinity settings. Granted, you could also just HEAVILY modify what is available through personal ordinance and loadouts.

Even though the present settings are far from perfect. If you go too far the other way, then the game will be dominated by vehicles.