Rebuilding multiplayer in Halo 4

Games Other Halo
1

The multiplayer experience in Halo Reach falls well short of expectations. Rather than flame, rant, and argue, I’ve decided to use these forums as an outlet for my ideas. Before I begin however, I would like to mention that I consider Halo to be, above anything else, a competition. I competed in local Halo 1 tournaments, Halo 2 MLG Events, Halo 2 MLG Online tournaments, one Halo 3 MLG Event, one TGN Halo 3 Event and my team won a reserved MLG Pass on Gamebattles for the first Halo 3 season. I played Halo 1 on XBC in 2004 and I’m still pretty good at that game. My favorite game was Halo 2 and my combined games from all my gamertags is well over 12,000. That being said, I absolutely hated Halo 3 and Halo Reach. No disrespect to anyone who enjoyed those games, but this thread will generally attack the innovations used during those two games.

  1. The basis of any competition is an equal playing field. In Halo, this specifically refers to Reach’s Armor Abilities and Halo 3’s equipment. These additions prevent the game from developing the way it is supposed to. They give players unnatural advantages. Some people compare AAs to the H1/H2 powerups of Camo and Overshield, but I believe there is an inherent difference. Powerups are given to only one player at a time (excluding the Halo 1 glitch) and last for a finite period of time. It is also important to note that powerups are generally located in a strategic area of the map where both teams have a fairly equal chance of obtaining them. AAs and Equipment also have a major impact on the second and third items in the list and more information can be found there.

  2. Faster kill times make for better games. I already have a thread dedicated to this section, so I will keep this short. The most popular shooters have very fast kill times with their primary guns (pistol in h1, br in h2/h3, dmr in reach). Armor Abilities extend the length of battles and generally impede kills from occurring. The growing trend of extended kill times with primary guns also creates an imbalance when compared to power weapons which are still generally instant-kills. Here is the link [http://halo.xbox.com/forums/games/f/7/t/19156.aspx

3](http://halo.xbox.com/forums/games/f/7/t/19156.aspx). Proper mechanics in video games are essential. By this I mean that a video game must flow without obstructions and work in the exact same manner for each player, in any situation, every time. In Halo this means a few a things. There should not be a bloom. The bloom is completely random and violates the mechanics principle by not working the same way for every player. In a larger sense, a highly skilled player should always defeat a player of average skill, and the bloom complicates this. I know this may sound somewhat odd, but Halo separates itself from other shooters by the science of player-health. In this I mean that a player always knows exactly how much damage they must inflict on their opponent to kill them. Halo 1, 3 pistol shots to the head or 4 if you miss the head once. Halo 2, 4 Br bursts as long as the last one is a head shot. Even Halo 3 had a similar Br burst mechanic. However, Reach does not follow this principle. With the bloom it is often extremely difficult to know how many more times you will need to fire in order to kill your opponent. A violation of this principle is also seen in Armor Abilities and H3’s equipment. These new inclusions muddy the water on knowing how much damage your opponent has taken, and how much health you have left.

  1. The skill of the individual and he/she’s ability to work with teammates must reign supreme. I don’t believe that anyone wants to see a beginner get absolutely destroyed by a skilled veteran, but this division of skill must exist. Rather than design aspects of the game to favor the beginning player, a 1-50 ranking system is necessary to allow top players to play other top players and beginners to play beginners. I have seen a good team beat a bad team in Halo CE, 50-8 and then when that good team plays an amazing team, get beat themselves 50-8 (Team Slayer). This is an essential part of competition. Dumb-ing the game down to allow casual players to compete is a flawed principle. Rather than create a game that is fun and hope it is competitive, follow the Halo 1 example and create a game that is competitive and IT WILL BE FUN.

  2. Button combinations can work in shooters. I know the idea of button combinations seems exclusive to fighting games, but Halo 1 and Halo 2 showed us that they can work in shooters as well. Button combos add depth to the game. I believe the double melee in Halo 1, as well as BxB and BxR in Halo 2 should be included in future Halo games. I realize these may not make physical sense in the game but if you compare this to Active Reloading in Gears of War (which essentially says that reloading your gun quicker makes the bullets stronger) it doesn’t have to. Button combinations also place more power in the hands of the individual and allow them to contribute more to the game.

I know there are more factors that make a video game great, but I believe these are as important as any. Any feedback would be appreciated.

TL;DR. 343i needs to look at what made Halo 1 and 2 successful before designing the multiplayer for Halo 4.

P.S. Sorry for any grammatical mistakes or typos. I’m not proof reading this.

2

There is a pinned thread where you can post your ideas. It is an official thread monitored by 343. You can post this there too if you want.

Official Feedback Thread Link

3

I sort of agree but fixing Multiplayer is as easy and simple. “PICK UPS”

Reach is a awful game because people can spend all day invisible or fly into the blue yonder creating ridiculous out comes.

The AA idea itself would of been a good addition to Halo if it was implemented as a pick up like the equipment was done in Halo 3.

Halo Player have always been rewarded for map control and strategy, while all been equally capable of changing the games outcome.

Halo will most likely keep sprint the less abusive ability but if they do it needs to been permanent to the player 100% of the time even after picking up an ability such as the Jet Pack or Hologram. While reverting AL & Camo back to Power Ups places somewhere on the map.

"Halo 4 needs everyone balance like in previous titles and reward in game actions via picking up equipment or AA’s."

4

I agree with idea’s 1 through 4, but I have to disagree on button combo’s. If something like that can make such a significant difference, why not make it the default? You say that Halo has always been about an even playing field, but to me button combo’s would divide that field.

5

> I agree with idea’s 1 through 4, but I have to disagree on button combo’s. If something like that can make such a significant difference, why not make it the default? You say that Halo has always been about an even playing field, but to me button combo’s would divide that field.

I can definitely see your point with the button combos comment, but I think there I still think there is a difference. I believe button combos add depth to the game the same way that being more accurate with the sniper rifle does. More specifically, as all the button combos I listed require your opponent to be at an exact distance from you (melee distance), you are putting your self in a position to fall victim to the combo. Therefore, I don’t believe that the addition of melee-distance button combinations put opponents on an unequal playing ground any more than their different skill levels.

6

No, this is all wrong.

I understand your beef with armor abilitys it changed too much. But having things like them as pick ups should be just fine. It gives no greater advantage over another player as picking up a power weapon.

And button combos? No…they were a glitch that gave people who knew about them an upper hand. They were easy to do. I can get them right almost 100% of the time in Halo 2. People complain about double beatdowns all the time, why implement something that is even worse.

This game needs to be fun. It needs stuff like jetpacks and holograms and all the stuff the hardcore doesn’t like because it is fun and new. What you are essentially saying should happen is to just copy Halo 2. Why even make a sequel if all you are going to do is keep everything the same and add nothing new. The Halo community is not thinking anything through right now.

Now i’m not saying the hardcore have been treated justly. Reach pretty much screwed them over by implementing things that impact there experience AND can not be changed.

I’m talking about bloom, a poor ranking system, and limited movement options. Those are all things that Reach brought to the table that has truly impacted the game. Things like Loadouts and armor lock are terrible as well, but at least they can be changed and removed for different playlists.

You say you want to “rebuild” Halo 4’s multiplayer, but it seems to me your just tearing it down.

What if there was a playlist for the casual. You can spawn with jetpacks and abilities and all that stuff you don’t like. It is a social playlist.

Then there is the new standard team slayer/objective playlists. Everyone spawns the same, but things like jetpacks and bubbleshields are pick ups on the maps.

And then there is the playlist for you Team Classic/ Or Team Hardcore. Its just you, your guns, and the OS/AC powerups. It is halo in its purest form. The form you described. A playlist where you can go in and test your skills against others of equal rank. This is what you want. But just because you don’t necessarily like the jetpacks or holograms or bubbleshields doesn’t mean they need to be removed completely.

Then of course Bloom needs to be exterminated and a better more skill based system needs to replace it. A new ranking system more akin to Halo 2 should be implemented and your rank sshould show how good you are. And we are playing as the chief again, so you could count on our run speed, jump height, and hit boxes to retun to normal.

You need to think about the bigger picture… there are more Halo players than just the diehard no nonsense hardcore. Sometimes people like to just goof off and fly around with a jetpack. There should always be a place for them, as there should always be a place for you…

7

> No, this is all wrong.
>
>
>
> I understand your beef with armor abilitys it changed too much. But having things like them as pick ups should be just fine. It gives no greater advantage over another player as picking up a power weapon.
>
>
> And button combos? No…they were a glitch that gave people who knew about them an upper hand. They were easy to do. I can get them right almost 100% of the time in Halo 2. People complain about double beatdowns all the time, why implement something that is even worse.
>
>
>
>
> This game needs to be fun. It needs stuff like jetpacks and holograms and all the stuff the hardcore doesn’t like because it is fun and new. What you are essentially saying should happen is to just copy Halo 2. Why even make a sequel if all you are going to do is keep everything the same and add nothing new. The Halo community is not thinking anything through right now.
>
> Now i’m not saying the hardcore have been treated justly. Reach pretty much screwed them over by implementing things that impact there experience AND can not be changed.
>
> I’m talking about bloom, a poor ranking system, and limited movement options. Those are all things that Reach brought to the table that has truly impacted the game. Things like Loadouts and armor lock are terrible as well, but at least they can be changed and removed for different playlists.
>
>
> You say you want to “rebuild” Halo 4’s multiplayer, but it seems to me your just tearing it down.
>
>
> What if there was a playlist for the casual. You can spawn with jetpacks and abilities and all that stuff you don’t like. It is a social playlist.
>
> Then there is the new standard team slayer/objective playlists. Everyone spawns the same, but things like jetpacks and bubbleshields are pick ups on the maps.
>
>
> And then there is the playlist for you Team Classic/ Or Team Hardcore. Its just you, your guns, and the OS/AC powerups. It is halo in its purest form. The form you described. A playlist where you can go in and test your skills against others of equal rank. This is what you want. But just because you don’t necessarily like the jetpacks or holograms or bubbleshields doesn’t mean they need to be removed completely.
>
>
>
>
> Then of course Bloom needs to be exterminated and a better more skill based system needs to replace it. A new ranking system more akin to Halo 2 should be implemented and your rank sshould show how good you are. And we are playing as the chief again, so you could count on our run speed, jump height, and hit boxes to retun to normal.
>
>
>
> You need to think about the bigger picture… there are more Halo players than just the diehard no nonsense hardcore. Sometimes people like to just goof off and fly around with a jetpack. There should always be a place for them, as there should always be a place for you…

I think we will have to agree to disagree. I don’t believe jetpacks are required for the game to be “fun” or that button combinations are a negative. While it’s true that they were unintentional additions, they added depth and led to Halo 1 and 2 being the most successful games in the franchise (by the percentage of Xbox owners that played the game relative to other games).
I will however concede that having armor abilities as pickups is the lesser of two evils. Though I still believe that for a gametype to be competitive, they need to be turned completely off. I have no qualms with the casual community so if those players want AA’s/Powerups that’s fine, but please keep them out of competitive spheres.

The only comment you made which i think is completely false, is that I am trying to tear down Halo 4’s multiplayer. The game hasn’t been made yet and Halo 4 multiplayer does not exist. I am making a series of suggestions in an effort to help the Halo 4 multiplayer experience better for the competitive community once it is released. In that sense I am trying to “rebuild” Halo 4’s multiplayer from Halo Reach’s mistakes.

8

Halo: CE wans’t competitive it was unbalanced. It was by far the funnest Halo ever but I would rather look for a more competitive edge to my games to make it fun. Halo 3 isn’t as bad as you make it out to be, you blame H3 and Reach but really the only one that destroyed competitive game-play is Reach and Reach alone. Equipment added more depth to H3, as it is just one more thing to control and utilize.

> No, this is all wrong.
>
>
>
> I understand your beef with armor abilitys it changed too much. But having things like them as pick ups should be just fine. It gives no greater advantage over another player as picking up a power weapon.

Pick ups are just as bad as having them in the game anyway. You pick up an AA and can utilize it unlimitedly, where as a power weapon runs out of ammo. If they were pick ups it would still ruin the competitive edge on the game.

9

> >
>
> I think we will have to agree to disagree. I don’t believe jetpacks are required for the game to be “fun” or that button combinations are a negative. While it’s true that they were unintentional additions, they added depth and led to Halo 1 and 2 being the most successful games in the franchise (by the percentage of Xbox owners that played the game relative to other games).
> I will however concede that having armor abilities as pickups is the lesser of two evils. Though I still believe that for a gametype to be competitive, they need to be turned completely off. I have no qualms with the casual community so if those players want AA’s/Powerups that’s fine, but please keep them out of competitive spheres.
>
> The only comment you made which i think is completely false, is that I am trying to tear down Halo 4’s multiplayer. The game hasn’t been made yet and Halo 4 multiplayer does not exist. I am making a series of suggestions in an effort to help the Halo 4 multiplayer experience better for the competitive community once it is released. In that sense I am trying to “rebuild” Halo 4’s multiplayer from Halo Reach’s mistakes.

Ok I may have jumped to conclusions a bit. I understand that you want Halo to be competitive again. I completely agree, I would love nothing more than to have Halo be a skilled based game once more. But it needs to have things for the casuals as well. Things like jetpacks and stuff may not be competitive and you can have a fun game without them, but they create so much possibility. Just look at Dino Blasters. Without jetpack that wouldn’t be possible. it isn’t competitive or skill based by any means, its just fun. And that’s what games are about…fun. The competitive needs to be accounted for. Halo 4 needs a good ranking system, no bloom, and a place the skilled players can go where everyone is equal and all the gimmicks are gone. But there should also be a place for the casuals, where they can fly around in their jetpacks and sen out holograms like crazy people and sprint until they can sprint no longer. Sometimes you get frustrated in competitive games, and I think even the hardcore need a place where they can blow off some steam. Play some Dino blasters, and just enjoy a game that truly caters to all parties, not just one.

10

> Halo: CE wans’t competitive it was unbalanced. It was by far the funnest Halo ever but I would rather look for a more competitive edge to my games to make it fun. Halo 3 isn’t as bad as you make it out to be, you blame H3 and Reach but really the only one that destroyed competitive game-play is Reach and Reach alone. Equipment added more depth to H3, as it is just one more thing to control and utilize.

I do not believe you played enough competitive Halo 1 to back up your “Halo: CE wasn’t competitive it was unbalanced” claim. That game took the highest amount of knowledge and skill of any Halo title. Throughout the history of MLG/AGP tournaments there were only 3 (i think 3) teams to ever win an event (StK, TDT, and FFA). While you may believe this is “unbalanced” I see it as a testiment to their dedication. If you look at the Halo 1 and Halo 2 facts, it’s that the best team always won and the best player (1v1s and FFAs) also always won. This was not the case in Halo 3 or Reach.

I understand that you enjoyed Halo 3, and I’m honestly not trying to make fun of a game you liked. To be completely honest, I’m not trying to insult Reach either. I’m simply saying that the first two Halo games (specifically the first one) have the greatest skill gaps and are the most competitive. With that in mind, I am urging 343i to use what made those two games great as they build Halo 4.

@SurCampsAL0T, I agree that there needs to be a divide between competitive gametypes and fun gametypes for casual players. I really liked the idea of the Arena where competitive players had their own area and casuals had their own. I would just like to see that area include objective gametypes and remove armor abilities/bad maps entirely.

11

Your principle of Bloom is somewhat flawed.

Even in Halo CE, the pistol did not fire straight, at all. It fired at a random point at the exact edge of a circle about half the reticle away from the center, every single time. So the weapon never EVER went exactly where it needed unless you were so close it didn’t make a difference. This lead to even professional players getting into consistent 6-7 shots fights with one another.

Halo 2 is the only “Perfect World” weapon, the aim assist meant scoring 4 shot kills would happen every single time, however, this also meant TERRIBLE players executed perfect 4 shot kills on a regular basis. So skill took a backwards leap over it.

Halo 3 they returned to having shots not necessarily go straight. AND implemented bullet travel time. Travel Time was an excellent mechanic for creating a wider skill gap for the weapon, and good players were able to master the travel time for fast kills at extended ranges. However the random “Burst” made 4 shots extremely inconsistent, and most fights between good players lasted for 5 shots.

The DMR in Reach has bloom. Bungie almost implemented exactly what everyone wanted, perfect, straight firing, reliable weapon. Implementing Bloom wouldn’t have been a bad thing, except Bungie created an unfortunate situation where the DMR is TOO accurate even while bloomed, so timing your shots for inconsistency actually pits you at a disadvantage. If Bloom were fixed by making the reticle kick LARGER, and aim assist have far less an effect on the outcome of the fight, the DMR would be essentially the perfect world weapon the Halo 2 BR was, but with far less aim assist. Add Bullet Travel Time to the mix, as hitscan reduces skill gap, and IMO it’s the perfect competitive weapon.

12

I agree with most of your ideas and I’m neutral on the button combo idea. However, seeing as how Bungie thought using button combos were cheating and actually banned players for using them, I’m pretty sure 343i wouldn’t be too happy about button combos either. In my opinion they should just code in button combos and allow them in only certain playlists: competitive and MLG playlists will allow it, while social playlists wouldn’t.

13

i agree with everything you say.

except for a part of your take on equipment. I adored the grav lift and using at against someone trying to splatter me, or inflitrating the splaser nest on high ground.

I HATE THE JETPACK THOUGH! and all the other equipment. i give this thread 2 thumbs up

14

> What you are essentially saying should happen is to just copy Halo 2. Why even make a sequel if all you are going to do is keep everything the same and add nothing new.

Because no one can play Halo 2 online anymore. If a Halo 2 remake was made for the Xbox 360, with everything exactly the same as it was before (with updated graphics, more Custom options, Forge, and Theater, maybe) I would forget that Halo: Reach, and possibly Halo 3, ever happened.

15

I dont know where to begin…you said a couple of times in your post “i know this is impossible, but you should…” Dude, you just said its impossible. And with the bloom, will this arguement ever end. Why do you think someone else has a different bloom then you? How does the bloom make the game unbalanced? I cant begin to understand this. You have a dmr, I have a DMR, how is that unbalanced…are you for real?
Also, it takes 4 DMR shots to pop your shield and one to the head to kill you. Dont say that you dont know how many shots it takes…you cant have been playing reach for too long to not know the answer to that question. 5 shots. I think anyone on this forum should know the answer to that. The only time it shouldnt take 5 is when 4 pops your shield and you cant hit thier head. Then its more like 6 or 7 depending on thier health. Health, which we all have the same of to start the game. There are classic playlists for the player who doesnt like abilities, or in MLG you all have sprint (which would negate your statement that becuase we dont all start even, the game is not even) and you can then pick up abilities that are evenly placed through out the map. The equipment in H3 didnt make the game uneven, because if thats the case then the same can be said for the weapons. The way your speaking makes it sounds like everyone should be on an open field with pistols and thats it. Halo is about starting evenly, yes. After you take those first few steps in any direction, it then becomes a game of map control. If your not a vet, and take three steps in the wrong direction at spawn, then youve lost the rockets or sniper to someone who better knows how to make best use of his time. To me halo has always been about this. If your want all to be even, then your kinda talking about eleminating weapons from the game. Thats nonsensical. Halo appeals to me more than a COD type games because you start with weak weapons. It forces the player who wants kills and wants to win to move thier -Yoink- in order to pick up a power weapon. Without these drops, the game becomes a camp fest and then your precious game speed becomes a problem…You cant have your cake and eat it too. When you fix one of the “problems” your talking about, you create another.
Slightly off topic, but to touch on your skill gap comments. If i make a game, i want everyone to buy, play, and ENJOY the game that i made. Im not catering to veterans, new comers, MLG, GameBattles, this or that. I WANT TO MAKE MONEY. Im not making a game for any other reason. Foremost thing on a list of things to have a game be if it wants to sell. It has to be entertaining. Sorry if the market isnt battle veteran MLG players. Majority of people who buy halo just play for fun. FUN, thats it. No one is gonna play a game that has a skill gap so rediculous that it would be impossible for a new player to get a kill. That game is not gonna sell. Im not spending 60 bucks to suck.
Just listing some of the idiot arguements that the average video game player would say to your list of fix its for future installments of Halo

16

> I agree with idea’s 1 through 4, but I have to disagree on button combo’s. If something like that can make such a significant difference, why not make it the default? You say that Halo has always been about an even playing field, but to me button combo’s would divide that field.

I don’t understand what you mean, If they are implemented properly and are explained in the manual and are available only in certain gametypes, then they would only increase the skill gap.

If they are available to everyone upon spawn then the field will still be even, it will just increase the skill gap between individuals.

I don’t see what harm it does anyone if they are only in available in select playlists, if they do it they should implement it properly, where you have to time it to the millisecond like you had to in H2.

17

Im with you on just about everything except frowning upon halo 3 i loved halo 3 and the power ups were pick ups its not like you chose and were a noob like AAs are in reach which made the game just horrible.