Reasons why Infinite's AR does NOT need a Nerf but the BR might

I have seen many people claiming Infinite’s AR is too good. Let me refute that argument.

Many people claim Infinite’s AR is too strong say previous Halos got it right. Well in previous Halos the AR lost to precision weapons even at close range meaing in a gunfight the AR user always lost. Some then say “well if you went for shots then a melee with an AR you could outkill the BR user faster”. While this may be true, for 1 the BR user won’t let you get that close but if you do manage it there are other weapons that could do the exact same thing only better. This means the AR is never the most ideal weapon to use as there is ALWAYS something more effective to use at any given range.

As established above the AR used to not have a single use case where it was the best weapon for the job. This is a problem as the same people who want an AR nerf want a BR spawn thus making the AR either a map weapon or the secondary spawn weapon. So after the proposed nerf the AR now is as weak as it was in previous Halos. This means the AR goes back to not having single use case where it is the best weapon making it actually useless. Why use a gun that at every given range is easily outclassed by other weapons?

As we stand now the AR loses to these weapons at close range (excluding weapons like the energy sword and rocket as power weapons don’tmake a fair comparison and all weapons lose to them anyways):

  • needler
  • bulldog
  • heatwave
  • SK
  • sentinel beam
  • any shield stripping weapon + precision weapon headshot

And it loses to all long range weapons at medium to long range.

So currently the AR has 1 use case where it is the most effective gun to use and that is above the short range weapons but below where the BR and Commando start outkilling the AR. If you nerf the AR not only does this window go away but now the BR and all other precision weapons have even less competition allowing them to be used even more often thus making the need to pick up more weapons less substantial. Then we are back to the “utility weapon” spawns that plagued Halo for so many years.

Now this is where most “utility weapon” fans get pretty heated as they enjoy how spawning with one plays. Let me give some reasons as to why it is not the best way to play for Halo (but still could have its own playlist, i am fine with that i just don’t want to replace AR spawns with a utility weapon spawn).

Halo was not originally designed to have you spawn with a utility weapon. I know the magnum in CE is that utility weapon but right before the game launched a lone dev buffed the magnum without anyone else knowing meaning the whole game was designed around not having one.

On top of this the utility weapon actively cuts against the 2 weapon system we have in Halo. The 2 weapon system was designed to make players have to think about what situations they predicted they would come across, forcing players to choose their weapons somewhat carefully or at least once you made that choice trying to get to the place where they are most useful. If Halo didn’t want you thinking this way they would have given us a weapon wheel like many other arena shooters have and allow us to always have the best or at least a very useful weapon no matter the situation and eliminating the need to predict future encounters.

The “utility weapon” cuts against the very design of Halos weapon system allowing people to ignore or at least overcome many encounters without having to of prepared for it by choosing the right weapon or making sure you are in the right place to use the weapons you have. The problem with utility weapons is they are always useful and in previous Halos were so useful even many close range weapons lost to them such as the AR thus making the variety of weapons needed lower.

Utility weapons also make open maps not possible or at least not fun as you will be beamed across map easily. This means maps have to have shorter signlines and less room for vehicles to operate. On top of limiting vehicles in this way, utility spawn weapons make it way easier to shoot people out of said vehicles and in Infinite where shock weapons and different equipment already easily counter vehicles they would make vehicles even more useless.

To top it off people will also argue that lower skill weapons should lose to higher skill ones. If that is the case the BR needs a nerf because all other ranged weapons are much harder to use effectively.
For the shock rifle is you don’t land the difficult headshot first you lose to a BR as it can descope faster. The Stalker Rifle needs way more precision than the BR and overheats very quickly so missing 1 or 2 shots and you overheat before you can get the kill while the BR user can again descope you much easier and has a massive mag in comparison. The commando has a ton of recoil, a smaller mag, and bloom thus making it way harder to use than a BR and the sniper is a power weapon that can still get counter by a BR with descoping. So again if the premise is the easier a weapon is to use then the weaker it should be then the BR is the first on the chopping block for a nerf.

When the Bandit Rifle is added the window the AR currently is the most effective weapon for will shrink. If the AR was nerfed it would become useless and if it is nerfed and left as a spawn weapon people would be crying that the spawning with such a weak weapon isn’t fair. I already gave my arguments for why utility weapons are not good spawn weapons for Halo so it seems that the AR is perfect as is.

I am not against having a separate BR spawn playlist but people need to stop arguing for nerfing the AR and replacing the AR spawn playlists. And before anyone says i am just bad, I was Onyx before the reset with very few games played and only stopped playing because my friend didn’t want to start matchmaking against more Onyx players so i do know how to use a BR. I have also been playing Halo since right after CE launched so i have lived through 20 years of the Utility weapon spawns so i know how they work.

TLDR; if you nerf the AR it goes back to not having a single use case where it is the ideal weapon making it literally useless and would be better off just being deleted. Each weapon needs 1 use case where it is the right weapon for the job and nerfing the AR takes away that 1 use case it has right now. If easier to use weapons are supposed to be weaker the BR should be nerfed as it is the easiest to use ranged weapon by far. A utility weapon spawn cuts directly against the 2 weapon system Halo has. (I am fine with BR spawn playlists just don’t kill my AR spawn playlists to get there).

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*multiple people are typing *

Yeah after giving every argument on each thread individually i figured it would be more productive to conglomerate them all into one thread that way i don’t have to repeat myself so much and pro AR nerf people can’t jump to another bad argument. They are all here and cover everything people have been saying.

The biggest problem is how easy the AR is to use compared to every single other weapon in this game, even guns like the heatwave and bulldog are more difficult weapons as a lot of the time they’ll require 3 shots to land at close range to get the kill and in that time the AR will win. What I don’t get is why the AR gets a pass by being incredibly easy to use over every other weapon in this game? Why is it significantly harder to use than the sentinel beam when they fill very similar roles? They purposely made the AR powerful in this game and incredibly easy to use to attract new players as it’s always been the “noob” gun. With how powerful the AR currently is it just allows bad players to win fights against more skilled players that made the tiniest mistake.

The BR could be a bit harder to use or other precision weapons could be made easier to use, but even the BR as is, is still significantly harder to use than the AR so I’d say the AR should get a huge nerf on its ease of use before the BR.

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Your entire argument is moot because the AR isn’t supposed to “perform the best” at anything. It’s supposed to be a weapon that you can use until you get a better weapon. That is specifically why people want the AR nerfed. It shouldn’t be good. Saying it needs to be good makes no sense, it’s a starting weapon.

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99.99% of people saying this also want BR starts. If thats the case the BR needs heavy nerfs to have that happen.

Its nice to have guns have a use case where they are the best. That means no guns are litterally useless. The AR is not some OP gun. It has 1 single range window where it is the best, outside of that it easily gets beat by most weapons.

People complain they can’t always be able to defend themselves then they say the AR needs to suck then they say we should have BR starts. Your argument isn’t about having a weak spawn weapon its just an irrational hatred of the AR.

Thanks for putting words into my mouth and also making statements up and spewing them as fact. It’s clear to see that you have no real argument other than “this is how I think it should be”. I have never once claimed I want BR starts, and neither has most of the Halo community. BR starts in ranked is logical, it’s competitive and the main focus is on map and power weapon control. Social is supposed to be relaxed and fun, meaning those who want to sweat can have the option to do so, but those who don’t, don’t have to worry about it. The AR is incredibly overpowered for the role it is supposed to serve in Halo games. Which is to be a starting weapon that can be swapped for something better when you find/earn it. It needs to be nerfed.

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You’re argument is the exact same as what you claim mine to be: “This is how i think it should be”.

You want the AR to be able to be beaten in every single scenario by at least 1 gun if not more. I argue that due to the 2 weapon system this doesn’t make sense as it would always result in an immediate trade thus negating the need to think about what scenarios you predict you will be entering. Having each weapon have at least 1 use case where it is the best makes you think “Is this weapon worth trading for for what i think i will be doing in the future?” and not “oh hey, a weapon, litterally anything is better than what i have so why not grab it?”.

And yes most people i disagree with on here want the AR nerfed and BR starts. I am sorry i assurmed you were in that group.

That said if you nerf the AR the SK will become extremely dominant so it would also need a pretty good nerf or to be removed as a spawn weapon. And that leads to a complete restructuring of how multiple guns work if you don’t want the AR and SK to just be immediate throw away weapons. Which it seems you do want this and i would argue its bad to have weapons so bad that anything is better then them because it makes people not have to engage with the design philosophy behind the 2 weapon system we have.

Ideally you should be able to spawn with most weapons (excluding power weapons) and the game still be fair because people would know what play style and weapons counter the spawn weapons. Spawn weapons should only determine the best default play style to maximize utilization of the spawn weapons and the AR promotes a mid range play style which is a good standard to have everyone at. If you go into a building you are at a disadvantage to all the close range guns and in an open field or lane the long range guns can easily beat you, but if you move across the map smartly you can utilize the mid range capabilities of the AR to be effective while also trading out for weapons that are more suitable for those other areas where the AR is not the ideal weapon.

The 2 weapon system was designed to make every weapon have a use case. Making a weapon trash just because you spawn with it goes against this design.

I personally find the BR easier to use because no matter what gun other people have i can outrange them or descope them faster than they can me. The mag is also large enough to easily take on multiple spartans without having to reload. In ranked i almost never find myself having to use other guns. The BR is just so good and if you know how to play the map you can always stay at the optimal distance to use it and not get hit at close range by a shotgun.