Reaction to Halo 5

Now I’m a huge Halo fan and have always been playing since 2001. I started drifting away some with Halo Reach, Halo 4 got two weeks worth of playing out of me, and now I reluctantly got Halo 5 and have experienced what they have done with the game. The gameplay was a step forward, but what in the hell has 343 been doing all these years? Halo Reach and Halo 3 were smooth as hell. Halo 3’s menu is iconic and the interface is great. Anyways I’ll list what is good and what is bad.

The good:

  • The game is back to being an arena shooter. - Custom Games are a core of the game again and are much more creative than the last couple years. - WarZone is a great system and much improved over Firefight - PC inclusion has been great for the gameThe bad:

  • The menu music is underwhelming for a AAA game. - The menu is disgustingly ugly, difficult to deal with, and frustrating to use - You cannot join a custom game lobby with your fireteam, you must individually join - When choosing a map as host in the custom games, “play in custom games” is for some reason not the default option and instead “find in custom games” is. - A lot of times custom games reset the map and gametype to Stasis/Slayer - Custom games always freeze when a player leaves or joins - Half the time of a custom game is spent loading - Spawns in matchmaking are terrible and seem to prefer spawning you close to the enemy and always on the bottom level - The assault rifle is useless to have in matchmaking when you spawn with a magnum or BR which are both insanely better even in close range, the SMG outperforms the AR as well - The campaign story and campaign itself are miserable - The AI in the game has no behavior personality like in the Bungie games and somehow a step back from Halo 4. Even on normal difficulties their only function is to auto lock on you and shoot you perfectly. Not that I can’t beat it, but the story mode is now more “peek and shoot” rather than playing chess with the enemy. - Half the guns have auto aim even when there is already aim assist - It is insane how far the range for locking on with the sword/meleeing is - Packs are used for unlocks instead of achievements and performance - Even when “focused search” is on, a level 7 gets put against two level 127’s.Overall, the core of Halo is heading in the right direction. However, everything about the game screams “unpolished Halo fan game” rather than “AAA Halo sequel”

Level 127 has nothing to do with skill… that is an XP value determined largely by how much you’ve played the game.

You’ll have good 127’s and bad 127’s… but, if you look at their skill tier relative to yours, there may be an issue there too…

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> Level 127 has nothing to do with skill… that is an XP value determined largely by how much you’ve played the game.
>
> You’ll have good 127’s and bad 127’s… but, if you look at their skill tier relative to yours, there may be an issue there too…

Either way, someone with that much experience should not be getting matched against people who just got the game.

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> > Level 127 has nothing to do with skill… that is an XP value determined largely by how much you’ve played the game.
> >
> > You’ll have good 127’s and bad 127’s… but, if you look at their skill tier relative to yours, there may be an issue there too…
>
> Either way, someone with that much experience should not be getting matched against people who just got the game.

Someone who just got the game can be a prodigy while me, at 147, is bad at the game.

SR has absolutely nothing to do with MMR, nor should it.

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> > > Level 127 has nothing to do with skill… that is an XP value determined largely by how much you’ve played the game.
> > >
> > > You’ll have good 127’s and bad 127’s… but, if you look at their skill tier relative to yours, there may be an issue there too…
> >
> > Either way, someone with that much experience should not be getting matched against people who just got the game.
>
> Someone who just got the game can be a prodigy while me, at 147, is bad at the game.
>
> SR has absolutely nothing to do with MMR, nor should it.

So you are saying that someone who just got the game should be getting matched up against someone who has full knowledge of all weapon locations, map control spots, weapon efficiency and where to use them, and other factors? If the 147 sucked then sure it would be an argument. Instead they were going 32 and 5.

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> > > > Level 127 has nothing to do with skill… that is an XP value determined largely by how much you’ve played the game.
> > > >
> > > > You’ll have good 127’s and bad 127’s… but, if you look at their skill tier relative to yours, there may be an issue there too…
> > >
> > > Either way, someone with that much experience should not be getting matched against people who just got the game.
> >
> > Someone who just got the game can be a prodigy while me, at 147, is bad at the game.
> >
> > SR has absolutely nothing to do with MMR, nor should it.
>
> So you are saying that someone who just got the game should be getting matched up against someone who has full knowledge of all weapon locations, map control spots, weapon efficiency and where to use them, and other factors? If the 147 sucked then sure it would be an argument. Instead they were going 32 and 5.

What playlist?

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> > > > > Level 127 has nothing to do with skill… that is an XP value determined largely by how much you’ve played the game.
> > > > >
> > > > > You’ll have good 127’s and bad 127’s… but, if you look at their skill tier relative to yours, there may be an issue there too…
> > > >
> > > > Either way, someone with that much experience should not be getting matched against people who just got the game.
> > >
> > > Someone who just got the game can be a prodigy while me, at 147, is bad at the game.
> > >
> > > SR has absolutely nothing to do with MMR, nor should it.
> >
> > So you are saying that someone who just got the game should be getting matched up against someone who has full knowledge of all weapon locations, map control spots, weapon efficiency and where to use them, and other factors? If the 147 sucked then sure it would be an argument. Instead they were going 32 and 5.
>
> What playlist?

Team Skirmish. Most Halo games accounted for experience in the past. No reason this one shouldn’t.

And the online system wasn’t the only issue as my OP states. The game is massively unoptimized and sluggish in performance. The menu not functioning well is already a bad sign.

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> > > > > > Level 127 has nothing to do with skill… that is an XP value determined largely by how much you’ve played the game.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You’ll have good 127’s and bad 127’s… but, if you look at their skill tier relative to yours, there may be an issue there too…
> > > > >
> > > > > Either way, someone with that much experience should not be getting matched against people who just got the game.
> > > >
> > > > Someone who just got the game can be a prodigy while me, at 147, is bad at the game.
> > > >
> > > > SR has absolutely nothing to do with MMR, nor should it.
> > >
> > > So you are saying that someone who just got the game should be getting matched up against someone who has full knowledge of all weapon locations, map control spots, weapon efficiency and where to use them, and other factors? If the 147 sucked then sure it would be an argument. Instead they were going 32 and 5.
> >
> > What playlist?
>
> Team Skirmish. Most Halo games accounted for experience in the past. No reason this one shouldn’t.
>
> And the online system wasn’t the only issue as my OP states. The game is massively unoptimized and sluggish in performance. The menu not functioning well is already a bad sign.

That’s a social playlist. Of course MMR isn’t going to factor as hugely in that. You can’t really compare apples to oranges like that, lol.

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> > > > > > > Level 127 has nothing to do with skill… that is an XP value determined largely by how much you’ve played the game.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You’ll have good 127’s and bad 127’s… but, if you look at their skill tier relative to yours, there may be an issue there too…
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Either way, someone with that much experience should not be getting matched against people who just got the game.
> > > > >
> > > > > Someone who just got the game can be a prodigy while me, at 147, is bad at the game.
> > > > >
> > > > > SR has absolutely nothing to do with MMR, nor should it.
> > > >
> > > > So you are saying that someone who just got the game should be getting matched up against someone who has full knowledge of all weapon locations, map control spots, weapon efficiency and where to use them, and other factors? If the 147 sucked then sure it would be an argument. Instead they were going 32 and 5.
> > >
> > > What playlist?
> >
> > Team Skirmish. Most Halo games accounted for experience in the past. No reason this one shouldn’t.
> >
> > And the online system wasn’t the only issue as my OP states. The game is massively unoptimized and sluggish in performance. The menu not functioning well is already a bad sign.
>
> That’s a social playlist. Of course MMR isn’t going to factor as hugely in that. You can’t really compare apples to oranges like that, lol.

By rank I meant their career profile level. For example, in Halo 3 it tracked your experience and matched you with those with similar exp in social playlists. I was a colonel in ranked and a captain grade 3 in social. Because of this, in social I would be matched with those of similar experience and in ranked I would be matched with those of similar rank. It’s insanely lazy and inefficient to not have a system in place, especially when there is a setting to find those of similar experience yet it makes it lopsided still.

It’s not just social though. Even ranked has those problems because of smurf accounts and high ranks boosting with low ones so they can either win easier or find games.

Look, “experience” isn’t the same as skill. And it doesn’t take too long to learn the maps and how each weapon performs in each situation.

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> > > > Level 127 has nothing to do with skill… that is an XP value determined largely by how much you’ve played the game.
> > > >
> > > > You’ll have good 127’s and bad 127’s… but, if you look at their skill tier relative to yours, there may be an issue there too…
> > >
> > > Either way, someone with that much experience should not be getting matched against people who just got the game.
> >
> > Someone who just got the game can be a prodigy while me, at 147, is bad at the game.
> >
> > SR has absolutely nothing to do with MMR, nor should it.
>
> So you are saying that someone who just got the game should be getting matched up against someone who has full knowledge of all weapon locations, map control spots, weapon efficiency and where to use them, and other factors? If the 147 sucked then sure it would be an argument. Instead they were going 32 and 5.

H5 isn’t hard to get good at if you were solid at the old games… you just need a short time to adapt to new strategies, maps, and mechanics.

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> > > > Level 127 has nothing to do with skill… that is an XP value determined largely by how much you’ve played the game.
> > > >
> > > > You’ll have good 127’s and bad 127’s… but, if you look at their skill tier relative to yours, there may be an issue there too…
> > >
> > > Either way, someone with that much experience should not be getting matched against people who just got the game.
> >
> > Someone who just got the game can be a prodigy while me, at 147, is bad at the game.
> >
> > SR has absolutely nothing to do with MMR, nor should it.
>
> So you are saying that someone who just got the game should be getting matched up against someone who has full knowledge of all weapon locations, map control spots, weapon efficiency and where to use them, and other factors? If the 147 sucked then sure it would be an argument. Instead they were going 32 and 5.

That’s why the newbie simply learns by trial and error. It’s ridiculous for a dev to have matchmaking parameters based off playtime, MMR is good enough.

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> Now I’m a huge Halo fan and have always been playing since 2001. I started drifting away some with Halo Reach, Halo 4 got two weeks worth of playing out of me, and now I reluctantly got Halo 5 and have experienced what they have done with the game. The gameplay was a step forward, but what in the hell has 343 been doing all these years? Halo Reach and Halo 3 were smooth as hell. Halo 3’s menu is iconic and the interface is great. Anyways I’ll list what is good and what is bad.
>
> The good:
> - The game is back to being an arena shooter. Yes, it’s much better than random weapons and abilities. - Custom Games are a core of the game again and are much more creative than the last couple years. - WarZone is a great system and much improved over Firefight I personally miss a solo PvE mode outside of campaign. WZFF is cool because of the REQs but otherwise inferior imo - PC inclusion has been great for the game PC users can play custom games right? Download and play for free? My gold expired and I can’t even load a custom game to screw around in or load up Forge to do something productive. If these modes worked without Gold on console (the version that cost $60) I would agree. The bad:
> - The menu music is underwhelming for a AAA game. I like the music, but the loading screen is pretty underwhelming compared to past Halos - The menu is disgustingly ugly, difficult to deal with, and frustrating to use Especially the REQ menus - You cannot join a custom game lobby with your fireteam, you must individually join I wasn’t aware of this, but it doesn’t surprise me - When choosing a map as host in the custom games, “play in custom games” is for some reason not the default option and instead “find in custom games” is. - A lot of times custom games reset the map and gametype to Stasis/Slayer - Custom games always freeze when a player leaves or joins - Half the time of a custom game is spent loading - Spawns in matchmaking are terrible and seem to prefer spawning you close to the enemy and always on the bottom level The spawns are pretty bad but idk that there’s much they do to change/improve them - The assault rifle is useless to have in matchmaking when you spawn with a magnum or BR which are both insanely better even in close range, the SMG outperforms the AR as well Don’t say that too loud, there are plenty of people who feel the AR is OP. I like it where it’s at, it rewards trigger control and can match-up fairly well mid-range. SMG should beat the AR up-close the way it’s designed. - The campaign story and campaign itself are miserable I’m not a fan either - The AI in the game has no behavior personality like in the Bungie games and somehow a step back from Halo 4. Even on normal difficulties their only function is to auto lock on you and shoot you perfectly. Not that I can’t beat it, but the story mode is now more “peek and shoot” rather than playing chess with the enemy. - Half the guns have auto aim even when there is already aim assist ??? Idk what you mean by auto-aim, aim assist and bullet magnetism are the only methods in play as far as I know. - It is insane how far the range for locking on with the sword/meleeing is It’s pretty long when you’re ADS, otherwise it seems close to how it’s always been - Packs are used for unlocks instead of achievements and performance I wouldn’t mind as much if you could pick and choose a bit as opposed to the RNG nightmare we got - Even when “focused search” is on, a level 7 gets put against two level 127’s. The levels are based on XP so I wouldn’t use that as your benchmark. It would probably be better if it could match you against lower level players until you hit the 20’s, but I doubt the population could support that currentlyOverall, the core of Halo is heading in the right direction. However, everything about the game screams “unpolished Halo fan game” rather than “AAA Halo sequel”

Responses to things I have opinions on in bold.

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> > > > > Level 127 has nothing to do with skill… that is an XP value determined largely by how much you’ve played the game.
> > > > >
> > > > > You’ll have good 127’s and bad 127’s… but, if you look at their skill tier relative to yours, there may be an issue there too…
> > > >
> > > > Either way, someone with that much experience should not be getting matched against people who just got the game.
> > >
> > > Someone who just got the game can be a prodigy while me, at 147, is bad at the game.
> > >
> > > SR has absolutely nothing to do with MMR, nor should it.
> >
> > So you are saying that someone who just got the game should be getting matched up against someone who has full knowledge of all weapon locations, map control spots, weapon efficiency and where to use them, and other factors? If the 147 sucked then sure it would be an argument. Instead they were going 32 and 5.
>
> That’s why the newbie simply learns by trial and error. It’s ridiculous for a dev to have matchmaking parameters based off playtime, MMR is good enough.

Somehow Bungie was able to do it in their Halo’s? Not to mention nearly every AAA game has a working experience-based matchmaking system separate of ranked matchmaking. In addition, it isn’t hard to have a separate MMR based on social. The point is that nobody I know bothers with matchmaking because it’s impossible to get better if you get stomped every time. There is no learning curve with a game if a wall is in the way. I was able to excel at prior Halo’s, but the matchmaking is so off-putting and so lopsided that there is no reason to play it.

@Darth thank you for some reasonable responses.

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> > > > > > Level 127 has nothing to do with skill… that is an XP value determined largely by how much you’ve played the game.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You’ll have good 127’s and bad 127’s… but, if you look at their skill tier relative to yours, there may be an issue there too…
> > > > >
> > > > > Either way, someone with that much experience should not be getting matched against people who just got the game.
> > > >
> > > > Someone who just got the game can be a prodigy while me, at 147, is bad at the game.
> > > >
> > > > SR has absolutely nothing to do with MMR, nor should it.
> > >
> > > So you are saying that someone who just got the game should be getting matched up against someone who has full knowledge of all weapon locations, map control spots, weapon efficiency and where to use them, and other factors? If the 147 sucked then sure it would be an argument. Instead they were going 32 and 5.
> >
> > That’s why the newbie simply learns by trial and error. It’s ridiculous for a dev to have matchmaking parameters based off playtime, MMR is good enough.
>
> Somehow Bungie was able to do it in their Halo’s? Not to mention nearly every AAA game has a working experience-based matchmaking system separate of ranked matchmaking. In addition, it isn’t hard to have a separate MMR based on social. The point is that nobody I know bothers with matchmaking because it’s impossible to get better if you get stomped every time. There is no learning curve with a game if a wall is in the way. I was able to excel at prior Halo’s, but the matchmaking is so off-putting and so lopsided that there is no reason to play it.
>
> @Darth thank you for some reasonable responses.

You’re so wrong when you say every triple A game does it lol. Most use ranks, not xp based matchmaking.

youre naive if you think 343 should have it “just cuz bungie did”. Do you ignore how bungie had a luxury with a large -Yoink- population? You can do a lot more in terms of search parameters and what not when you have millions playing, tell me how 343 are to do that. When ranked games already have issues finding quality matches? Adding in a minor feature like you’re wanting just worsens the experience worse for those who already have issues finding games.

i honestly don’t see why or how your solution stops people from getting crushed, like others said, your xp level is not reflected on skill at all. Matching me with people my xp level does not just make games equal or fair. What happens when you match a champion? A silly xp level will do nothing lol.so again, MMR is all that is “needed” (which I already said is flawed due to a bad pop) as that is reflective on skill.

  • I get that you like custom games, but nearly half of your bullet points are based on this small aspect of the game. - It has already been pointed out in this forum, but a players level shouldn’t have a huge impact in matchmaking. This should be based on competitive rank. While the ranking system is not perfect (especially in FFA for example), it is pretty darn good imo. If someone has a high SR level, 147 in your example, and are still ranked low in competitive multiplayer then they probably really are that bad. There is a learning curve for the maps, but that is naturally shown in competitive playlists. I find that playing social playlists like skirmish often match me with people who are MUCH better than me. That is not fun. If you spend the 10 games to get ranked in competitive your problem should be solved - The Assault Rifle absolutely is a valid option at close range. Just watch the pros. Obviously the pistol will be better at mid-long range, but the AR definitely has its place. In fact, I would argue that it is more powerful/competitive than it has been in quite a while. The guns you can pick up on the map should all be better than both the pistol and the AR. That’s always the way it has been. - I actually think Warzone is one of the things they got wrong. I really wish there wasn’t such a focus on requisitions. Can make for way too lopsided of matches. Big 12v12 is great. Wish they had 12v12 options that didn’t require the req system.To each their own I guess :slight_smile:

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> > > > > > > Level 127 has nothing to do with skill… that is an XP value determined largely by how much you’ve played the game.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You’ll have good 127’s and bad 127’s… but, if you look at their skill tier relative to yours, there may be an issue there too…
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Either way, someone with that much experience should not be getting matched against people who just got the game.
> > > > >
> > > > > Someone who just got the game can be a prodigy while me, at 147, is bad at the game.
> > > > >
> > > > > SR has absolutely nothing to do with MMR, nor should it.
> > > >
> > > > So you are saying that someone who just got the game should be getting matched up against someone who has full knowledge of all weapon locations, map control spots, weapon efficiency and where to use them, and other factors? If the 147 sucked then sure it would be an argument. Instead they were going 32 and 5.
> > >
> > > That’s why the newbie simply learns by trial and error. It’s ridiculous for a dev to have matchmaking parameters based off playtime, MMR is good enough.
> >
> > Somehow Bungie was able to do it in their Halo’s? Not to mention nearly every AAA game has a working experience-based matchmaking system separate of ranked matchmaking. In addition, it isn’t hard to have a separate MMR based on social. The point is that nobody I know bothers with matchmaking because it’s impossible to get better if you get stomped every time. There is no learning curve with a game if a wall is in the way. I was able to excel at prior Halo’s, but the matchmaking is so off-putting and so lopsided that there is no reason to play it.
> >
> > @Darth thank you for some reasonable responses.
>
> You’re so wrong when you say every triple A game does it lol. Most use ranks, not xp based matchmaking.
>
> youre naive if you think 343 should have it “just cuz bungie did”. Do you ignore how bungie had a luxury with a large -Yoink- population? You can do a lot more in terms of search parameters and what not when you have millions playing, tell me how 343 are to do that. When ranked games already have issues finding quality matches? Adding in a minor feature like you’re wanting just worsens the experience worse for those who already have issues finding games.
>
> i honestly don’t see why or how your solution stops people from getting crushed, like others said, your xp level is not reflected on skill at all. Matching me with people my xp level does not just make games equal or fair. What happens when you match a champion? A silly xp level will do nothing lol.so again, MMR is all that is “needed” (which I already said is flawed due to a bad pop) as that is reflective on skill.

So some of the most recent popular games like Overwatch, Rainbow Six Siege, Titanfall 2 do not have XP based matchmaking where you earn an unknown MMR and known XP ranks through casual play? Do you not understand how matchmaking works? Halo wouldn’t be dead if 343 didn’t make terrible decisions and developed a quality title instead.

The system I am talking about has been in games for a very long time but apparently was lost on Halo 5. You have an XP rank and an MMR that is unknown to you, both are taken into account when searching for a game. If someone is Colonel like you and has a similar MMR then you are matched. If you can’t find a Colonel but you can find a Captain with a similar MMR then it is close enough. If there is a Colonel but their MMR is bad then they could be matched with a Lieutenant with a similarly poorer MMR. If MMR is too hard to find similar, then at least similar experience would mean they have some type of similarity. Instead, they are matching a Recruit with a lower end MMR to people who are ten ranks above them and have a much higher MMR. It’s like a ranked system but not as strict on rank.

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> > > > > > > > Level 127 has nothing to do with skill… that is an XP value determined largely by how much you’ve played the game.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You’ll have good 127’s and bad 127’s… but, if you look at their skill tier relative to yours, there may be an issue there too…
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Either way, someone with that much experience should not be getting matched against people who just got the game.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Someone who just got the game can be a prodigy while me, at 147, is bad at the game.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > SR has absolutely nothing to do with MMR, nor should it.
> > > > >
> > > > > So you are saying that someone who just got the game should be getting matched up against someone who has full knowledge of all weapon locations, map control spots, weapon efficiency and where to use them, and other factors? If the 147 sucked then sure it would be an argument. Instead they were going 32 and 5.
> > > >
> > > > That’s why the newbie simply learns by trial and error. It’s ridiculous for a dev to have matchmaking parameters based off playtime, MMR is good enough.
> > >
> > > Somehow Bungie was able to do it in their Halo’s? Not to mention nearly every AAA game has a working experience-based matchmaking system separate of ranked matchmaking. In addition, it isn’t hard to have a separate MMR based on social. The point is that nobody I know bothers with matchmaking because it’s impossible to get better if you get stomped every time. There is no learning curve with a game if a wall is in the way. I was able to excel at prior Halo’s, but the matchmaking is so off-putting and so lopsided that there is no reason to play it.
> > >
> > > @Darth thank you for some reasonable responses.
> >
> > You’re so wrong when you say every triple A game does it lol. Most use ranks, not xp based matchmaking.
> >
> > youre naive if you think 343 should have it “just cuz bungie did”. Do you ignore how bungie had a luxury with a large -Yoink- population? You can do a lot more in terms of search parameters and what not when you have millions playing, tell me how 343 are to do that. When ranked games already have issues finding quality matches? Adding in a minor feature like you’re wanting just worsens the experience worse for those who already have issues finding games.
> >
> > i honestly don’t see why or how your solution stops people from getting crushed, like others said, your xp level is not reflected on skill at all. Matching me with people my xp level does not just make games equal or fair. What happens when you match a champion? A silly xp level will do nothing lol.so again, MMR is all that is “needed” (which I already said is flawed due to a bad pop) as that is reflective on skill.
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> So some of the most recent popular games like Overwatch, Rainbow Six Siege, Titanfall 2 do not have XP based matchmaking where you earn an unknown MMR and known XP ranks through casual play? Do you not understand how matchmaking works? Halo wouldn’t be dead if 343 didn’t make terrible decisions and developed a quality title instead.
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> The system I am talking about has been in games for a very long time but apparently was lost on Halo 5. You have an XP rank and an MMR that is unknown to you, both are taken into account when searching for a game. If someone is Colonel like you and has a similar MMR then you are matched. If you can’t find a Colonel but you can find a Captain with a similar MMR then it is close enough. If there is a Colonel but their MMR is bad then they could be matched with a Lieutenant with a similarly poorer MMR. If MMR is too hard to find similar, then at least similar experience would mean they have some type of similarity. Instead, they are matching a Recruit with a lower end MMR to people who are ten ranks above them and have a much higher MMR. It’s like a ranked system but not as strict on rank.

Overwatch and titanfall don’t match you based off XP ranks. CoD does not match you based off XP ranks, rainbow siege does not match you based off XP ranks. They have an XP progression system, but it’s not used for matchmaking purposes… Don’t me me I know nothing on proper matchmaking lol, you simply refuse to believe that video games don’t prioritize XP over actual skill based ranks with MMR and ELO. New players will match people who been playing for a month, it’s not a big deal, as others have said it doesn’t take long to learn if people put in the effort nor does the lack of XP ranks result in lopsided matches as it’s not skill determined.

I think a lot of your problems stem from some bugs and the UI. Your bad side of halo 5 feels really nitpicky compared to the good. Also, if anything, automatics are OP (not really though). They are definitely not underpowered. The aim of the AI is just like it used to be. I don’t see the issue here. Also, the spawns are fine.